MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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11/3/2023 12:59pm

New Specialized Kenevo SL drops Tuesday if thats of any interest…

10
veefour
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Cinderford GB
11/3/2023 1:41pm Edited Date/Time 11/3/2023 1:42pm
The parent I saw was most certainly designed to hold a shifter cable. I can't say which bike but the the bike I saw with AXS...

The parent I saw was most certainly designed to hold a shifter cable.

I can't say which bike but the the bike I saw with AXS that was being powered by the bike battery used a little block that clipped in place of the battery and a small wire ran from it into the shifter cable hole in the chainstay with a little rubber grommet. 

dolface wrote:
This? More pics here: https://nsmb.com/articles/lost-in-transmission/ Second pic shows the patent drawing w/ cable guide "11"  

This? More pics here: https://nsmb.com/articles/lost-in-transmission/

Second pic shows the patent drawing w/ cable guide "11"

Screenshot 2023-11-03 at 09.36.39

 

sram-direct-mount-rear-derailleur-thru-axle-mount3

yeah thats the same system I saw. Sorry I wasn't trying to be secretive but at the time I saw that Fuel with the system we...

yeah thats the same system I saw. Sorry I wasn't trying to be secretive but at the time I saw that Fuel with the system we were still in  "no talk mode" and I wasn't sure if it had been shown on NSMB yet.

Looking at your location I find it quite fitting that you're discussing a version of something that doesn't require batteries. Laughing

5
11/3/2023 6:42pm
Richt2000 wrote:

New Specialized Kenevo SL drops Tuesday if thats of any interest…

New Santa Cruz V10 dropping as well.

11/3/2023 9:22pm
Primoz wrote:

Gx or lesser level? 

GX from what my eyes saw but that doesn’t mean lower isn’t, but can’t see that happening in year one?

11/4/2023 12:34am

You can't have a mechanical T type because the shift would be instantaneous, it has to have a delay in order for it to shift correctly. 

If you tried dumping 4 gears the cable would pull or release the mech across the cassette. 

 

T type goes in steps 

4
AgrAde
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11/4/2023 2:01am

I can't imagine anything worse than having to wait for shifts. But I'd take a direct mount mechanical derailleur any day.

2
11/4/2023 7:06am

Word on the street is we are going to see an E-Slash next year running the motor similar to the fuel. 

Heard this too. Then saw a spec sheet.

Mechanical T-type is coming too.

So what exactly do the word on the street and the spec sheet say about the E-Slash? Will it use the regular Slash’s high-pivot design? Again 170mm travel? Smile

1
stoic_machine
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11/4/2023 7:22am
dolface wrote:
This? More pics here: https://nsmb.com/articles/lost-in-transmission/ Second pic shows the patent drawing w/ cable guide "11"  

This? More pics here: https://nsmb.com/articles/lost-in-transmission/

Second pic shows the patent drawing w/ cable guide "11"

Screenshot 2023-11-03 at 09.36.39

 

sram-direct-mount-rear-derailleur-thru-axle-mount3

yeah thats the same system I saw. Sorry I wasn't trying to be secretive but at the time I saw that Fuel with the system we...

yeah thats the same system I saw. Sorry I wasn't trying to be secretive but at the time I saw that Fuel with the system we were still in  "no talk mode" and I wasn't sure if it had been shown on NSMB yet.

veefour wrote:
Looking at your location I find it quite fitting that you're discussing a version of something that doesn't require batteries. 

Looking at your location I find it quite fitting that you're discussing a version of something that doesn't require batteries. Laughing

Lol very true. My location is a long standing north shore joke. If you know, you know.

3
stoic_machine
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11/4/2023 7:25am

Word on the street is we are going to see an E-Slash next year running the motor similar to the fuel. 

Heard this too. Then saw a spec sheet.

Mechanical T-type is coming too.

So what exactly do the word on the street and the spec sheet say about the E-Slash? Will it use the regular Slash’s high-pivot design? Again...

So what exactly do the word on the street and the spec sheet say about the E-Slash? Will it use the regular Slash’s high-pivot design? Again 170mm travel? Smile

Don't know a ton yet 

11/4/2023 8:28am
dolface wrote:
This? More pics here: https://nsmb.com/articles/lost-in-transmission/ Second pic shows the patent drawing w/ cable guide "11"  

This? More pics here: https://nsmb.com/articles/lost-in-transmission/

Second pic shows the patent drawing w/ cable guide "11"

Screenshot 2023-11-03 at 09.36.39

 

sram-direct-mount-rear-derailleur-thru-axle-mount3

yeah thats the same system I saw. Sorry I wasn't trying to be secretive but at the time I saw that Fuel with the system we...

yeah thats the same system I saw. Sorry I wasn't trying to be secretive but at the time I saw that Fuel with the system we were still in  "no talk mode" and I wasn't sure if it had been shown on NSMB yet.

veefour wrote:
Looking at your location I find it quite fitting that you're discussing a version of something that doesn't require batteries. 

Looking at your location I find it quite fitting that you're discussing a version of something that doesn't require batteries. Laughing

it's not Vibrator, Newfoundland...

veefour
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11/4/2023 9:00am
t.odd wrote:

it's not Vibrator, Newfoundland...

Never mind.

11/4/2023 9:26am Edited Date/Time 11/4/2023 9:26am
t.odd wrote:

it's not Vibrator, Newfoundland...

veefour wrote:

Never mind.

wait, now did I misread your post or was it edited?! was still trying to get that first coffee of the day into me! hahah

1
veefour
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11/4/2023 10:32am Edited Date/Time 11/4/2023 10:33am
t.odd wrote:

wait, now did I misread your post or was it edited?! was still trying to get that first coffee of the day into me! hahah

Yes, I think you may have misunderstood, haha, all good.

1
11/4/2023 6:03pm
You can't have a mechanical T type because the shift would be instantaneous, it has to have a delay in order for it to shift correctly. ...

You can't have a mechanical T type because the shift would be instantaneous, it has to have a delay in order for it to shift correctly. 

If you tried dumping 4 gears the cable would pull or release the mech across the cassette. 

 

T type goes in steps 

I reckon if they're running with the T-type cassette (narrow wide profile and whatnot), using a mechanical mech, they will mandate a single-click shifter which physically slows down your shifts, giving you that T-type effect. I have a hunch that the cassette and chain are nothing really special on T-type and all the shift quality benefits are just from the electronic timing. I'd love to see somebody compare the shift quality of just 1 downshift of transmission and XTR (making the electric features irrelevant), HG+ might just be smoother!

AndehM
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11/4/2023 6:18pm

I'm pretty certain that Transmission doesn't "know" anything about position of ramp cogs.  The system has a stiffer chain, more precise alignment between the derailleur and cassette, more force from the derailleur, and a refined ramp pattern.  When you queue up multiple shifts, you immediately hear the bzzt bzzt bzzt of the derailleur moving, then the chain works it's way up/down the cassette.  If it knew where the ramps were, you'd click click click, then it would break up the bzzt as gears changed.  XTR shifting in my experience is quicker if you time shifts.  T-Type (I have on an ebike and enduro bike) doesn't really care about timing.  Just hit shift and it will shift whenever it can.  Occasionally a little bit louder if there's a ton of load, but I've completely stopped caring about timing shifts and never had a single bad shift.

18
3
11/6/2023 5:29am

So far we haven't seen any renderings of the mechanical direct mount derailleur with a cassette. I'd bet that the "direct mount transmission" is really just an update for the older X-Dome style cassettes. I haven't tried putting a T-Type derailleur on an older cassette yet. Theoretically, it could work, not sure if the lack of limit adjustments would line up though. 

1
TimBud
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11/6/2023 6:05am

Works nicely in the stand with XTR.

IMG 8581
Just had to tune the ‘indexing’

19
Dave_Camp
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11/6/2023 7:33am
jsray wrote:
Maybe they’re doing a budget shock. Doesn’t have the same shock body as the 11/6. Looks like LSC only on the top of the reservoir there...

Maybe they’re doing a budget shock. Doesn’t have the same shock body as the 11/6. Looks like LSC only on the top of the reservoir there. What they need is externally adjustable HBO. The new RS SD coil for a 1/3 of the price is significantly better than any of the 11/6 I owned on several different bikes over the years. 

This makes me very happy.

 

I doubt push can complete at a lower price.  Not discarding their engineering but it’s just impossible without the volume that RS does.  

8
sspomer
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11/6/2023 7:52am Edited Date/Time 11/6/2023 7:53am
AndehM wrote:
I'm pretty certain that Transmission doesn't "know" anything about position of ramp cogs.  The system has a stiffer chain, more precise alignment between the derailleur and...

I'm pretty certain that Transmission doesn't "know" anything about position of ramp cogs.  The system has a stiffer chain, more precise alignment between the derailleur and cassette, more force from the derailleur, and a refined ramp pattern.  When you queue up multiple shifts, you immediately hear the bzzt bzzt bzzt of the derailleur moving, then the chain works it's way up/down the cassette.  If it knew where the ramps were, you'd click click click, then it would break up the bzzt as gears changed.  XTR shifting in my experience is quicker if you time shifts.  T-Type (I have on an ebike and enduro bike) doesn't really care about timing.  Just hit shift and it will shift whenever it can.  Occasionally a little bit louder if there's a ton of load, but I've completely stopped caring about timing shifts and never had a single bad shift.

in our transmission review i shift both old axs and transmission derailleurs off the bike. transmission is timed electronically (not saying it's "smart", just has a slower timing...i hit the shift button quickly but the transmission derailleur takes its time). "old" axs goes as fast as you can hit the button basically. watch it here - https://youtu.be/ooilfJ2SEiQ?si=e7_AJHjletQQbkzn&t=691

6
Tanner_Carl
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11/6/2023 8:04am
Javigutz wrote:

Fox already owns Easton.

jonrides wrote:

Fox owns Easton Cycling.   The other divisions were sold off separately.   I think Rawlings might own Easton Baseball at this point.

you're right, I looked up the different Easton divisions immediately after posting my comment #MondayMorningShitPosting

2
11/6/2023 8:22am Edited Date/Time 11/6/2023 8:36am
AndehM wrote:
I'm pretty certain that Transmission doesn't "know" anything about position of ramp cogs.  The system has a stiffer chain, more precise alignment between the derailleur and...

I'm pretty certain that Transmission doesn't "know" anything about position of ramp cogs.  The system has a stiffer chain, more precise alignment between the derailleur and cassette, more force from the derailleur, and a refined ramp pattern.  When you queue up multiple shifts, you immediately hear the bzzt bzzt bzzt of the derailleur moving, then the chain works it's way up/down the cassette.  If it knew where the ramps were, you'd click click click, then it would break up the bzzt as gears changed.  XTR shifting in my experience is quicker if you time shifts.  T-Type (I have on an ebike and enduro bike) doesn't really care about timing.  Just hit shift and it will shift whenever it can.  Occasionally a little bit louder if there's a ton of load, but I've completely stopped caring about timing shifts and never had a single bad shift.

Correct, the system is not aware of where the shifting ramps are. The "electronic timing" you hear talk about is just a delay introduced when you try to shift more than 2 gears in rapid succession. The derailleur will physically move for the first 2 clicks, putting sideways pressure on the chain which will then shift on the cassette when it encounters the shift ramps. As soon as the derailleur knows that it has moved for those first shifts, it will then initiate the remaining shifts (however many clicks you hit). This helps avoid any excessive side loads on the derailleur. As for the shifting quality, GX Transmission is one of the smoothest out there, there will be the occasional noise of the chain clunking off the teeth as it leaves a cog, but for the most part it's quiet. A perfectly tuned XTR drivetrain may still have the upper hand in terms of absolute smoothness in all circumstances, but we're splitting hairs now. Both are very very good, including when shifting under load.

11
dolface
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11/6/2023 8:22am
So far we haven't seen any renderings of the mechanical direct mount derailleur with a cassette. I'd bet that the "direct mount transmission" is really just...

So far we haven't seen any renderings of the mechanical direct mount derailleur with a cassette. I'd bet that the "direct mount transmission" is really just an update for the older X-Dome style cassettes. I haven't tried putting a T-Type derailleur on an older cassette yet. Theoretically, it could work, not sure if the lack of limit adjustments would line up though. 

t-type-patent.jpeg?VersionId=sZNfm9nNlepfYJyqjjonur3bDYSCw

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WhoKnows
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11/6/2023 10:23am
So far we haven't seen any renderings of the mechanical direct mount derailleur with a cassette. I'd bet that the "direct mount transmission" is really just...

So far we haven't seen any renderings of the mechanical direct mount derailleur with a cassette. I'd bet that the "direct mount transmission" is really just an update for the older X-Dome style cassettes. I haven't tried putting a T-Type derailleur on an older cassette yet. Theoretically, it could work, not sure if the lack of limit adjustments would line up though. 

dolface wrote:

t-type-patent.jpeg?VersionId=sZNfm9nNlepfYJyqjjonur3bDYSCw

I think it would be incredibly hard to get the shift ramps and tensions perfect with the older cassette system. The transmission has move shift ramps and deeper channels as well. 

11/6/2023 10:53am

Also, looks like Suntour has a new Rux. Different graphics, drop crown, offset looks different too maybe. 

Screenshot 2023-11-07 075128.png?VersionId=llYjVkDW.EXIMLPDlO 76iPOV7

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metadave
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Fantasy
11/6/2023 11:15am
Also, looks like Suntour has a new Rux. Different graphics, drop crown, offset looks different too maybe. 

Also, looks like Suntour has a new Rux. Different graphics, drop crown, offset looks different too maybe. 

Screenshot 2023-11-07 075128.png?VersionId=llYjVkDW.EXIMLPDlO 76iPOV7

Has anyone on here actually ridden a Rux? I feel like I need a real life, non website review of it. Seems like and sleeper and at the same time, not one.

3
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nsp234
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11/6/2023 11:34am
So far we haven't seen any renderings of the mechanical direct mount derailleur with a cassette. I'd bet that the "direct mount transmission" is really just...

So far we haven't seen any renderings of the mechanical direct mount derailleur with a cassette. I'd bet that the "direct mount transmission" is really just an update for the older X-Dome style cassettes. I haven't tried putting a T-Type derailleur on an older cassette yet. Theoretically, it could work, not sure if the lack of limit adjustments would line up though. 

dolface wrote:

t-type-patent.jpeg?VersionId=sZNfm9nNlepfYJyqjjonur3bDYSCw

I just can't imagine SRAM not doing a cable actuated transmission at some point. Small engineering effort vs. large market volume should make this a no-brainer. Would be a bold move to drop all the lower end market and some OEM deals along with it?

2
Primoz
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11/6/2023 1:21pm
AndehM wrote:
I'm pretty certain that Transmission doesn't "know" anything about position of ramp cogs.  The system has a stiffer chain, more precise alignment between the derailleur and...

I'm pretty certain that Transmission doesn't "know" anything about position of ramp cogs.  The system has a stiffer chain, more precise alignment between the derailleur and cassette, more force from the derailleur, and a refined ramp pattern.  When you queue up multiple shifts, you immediately hear the bzzt bzzt bzzt of the derailleur moving, then the chain works it's way up/down the cassette.  If it knew where the ramps were, you'd click click click, then it would break up the bzzt as gears changed.  XTR shifting in my experience is quicker if you time shifts.  T-Type (I have on an ebike and enduro bike) doesn't really care about timing.  Just hit shift and it will shift whenever it can.  Occasionally a little bit louder if there's a ton of load, but I've completely stopped caring about timing shifts and never had a single bad shift.

iceman2058 wrote:
Correct, the system is not aware of where the shifting ramps are. The "electronic timing" you hear talk about is just a delay introduced when you...

Correct, the system is not aware of where the shifting ramps are. The "electronic timing" you hear talk about is just a delay introduced when you try to shift more than 2 gears in rapid succession. The derailleur will physically move for the first 2 clicks, putting sideways pressure on the chain which will then shift on the cassette when it encounters the shift ramps. As soon as the derailleur knows that it has moved for those first shifts, it will then initiate the remaining shifts (however many clicks you hit). This helps avoid any excessive side loads on the derailleur. As for the shifting quality, GX Transmission is one of the smoothest out there, there will be the occasional noise of the chain clunking off the teeth as it leaves a cog, but for the most part it's quiet. A perfectly tuned XTR drivetrain may still have the upper hand in terms of absolute smoothness in all circumstances, but we're splitting hairs now. Both are very very good, including when shifting under load.

FWIW, I'm running a Garbaruk cassette (10-52) on a cable actuated X01 derailleur (new). Compared to my full X01 setup from before (10-50, 2019), even with a cassette that's done 350k vertical meters of climbing, pulling the shifter lever over 2 or 3 gears makes the cassette very unhappy and I've had instances where the chain was 'dropped' to the smaller cogs instead of pulled up into easier gears. This is not something that happened ont he X01 cassette.

Shifting on the Garbaruk cassette is then worse on the extremes, but as long as you take time and shift gear per gear, it's all good. Should have gone for the single click eBike shifter and it would be all good.

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