MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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sethimus
Posts
877
Joined
9/20/2014
Location
CH
8/1/2023 11:57am
Evil96 wrote:
 From the propain group on Facebook, seems to be the new ebike, ready but not out yet, also seems like they really dig that shitty cable...

IMG 8797.jpeg?VersionId=19wuJaNTCj VtKvvZEQ2I

 From the propain group on Facebook, seems to be the new ebike, ready but not out yet, also seems like they really dig that shitty cable tourism, shame 

sethimus wrote:
fugly and what looks like a 185mm shock to save space. which means there won‘t be proper springs for heavy guys because they only use a...

fugly and what looks like a 185mm shock to save space. which means there won‘t be proper springs for heavy guys because they only use a 55mm hub for a long travel bike. stupid

Evil96 wrote:

You can get springs from Ext, they make also 700 lbs and similar 

good thing they are selling the tyee with rock shox coil shocks

Onawalk
Posts
344
Joined
7/5/2021
Location
CA
8/1/2023 12:39pm
sethimus wrote:
fugly and what looks like a 185mm shock to save space. which means there won‘t be proper springs for heavy guys because they only use a...

fugly and what looks like a 185mm shock to save space. which means there won‘t be proper springs for heavy guys because they only use a 55mm hub for a long travel bike. stupid

Evil96 wrote:

You can get springs from Ext, they make also 700 lbs and similar 

sethimus wrote:

good thing they are selling the tyee with rock shox coil shocks

Not sure if youre being sarcastic here, but for benefit of the doubt.

EXT makes light weight, high quality springs and adapters to fit most rear shocks.  Think of it like an after market spring, that comes is smaller spring rate steps, to fit loads of other shocks.  Allows you to find a more refined setup, for those that think they need it.

1
1
sethimus
Posts
877
Joined
9/20/2014
Location
CH
8/1/2023 1:22pm Edited Date/Time 8/1/2023 1:22pm
Evil96 wrote:

You can get springs from Ext, they make also 700 lbs and similar 

sethimus wrote:

good thing they are selling the tyee with rock shox coil shocks

Onawalk wrote:
Not sure if youre being sarcastic here, but for benefit of the doubt. EXT makes light weight, high quality springs and adapters to fit most rear...

Not sure if youre being sarcastic here, but for benefit of the doubt.

EXT makes light weight, high quality springs and adapters to fit most rear shocks.  Think of it like an after market spring, that comes is smaller spring rate steps, to fit loads of other shocks.  Allows you to find a more refined setup, for those that think they need it.

try order a complete bike from them with a fitting spring if you are over 105kg. or try pumping up your air shock over the manufacurer limit if you are in the same camp. not possible, because they decided on a 55mm stroke shock…

1
Aksel_Lfft
Posts
115
Joined
4/21/2016
Location
Plaisance-du-Touch FR
8/1/2023 2:01pm
sethimus wrote:

good thing they are selling the tyee with rock shox coil shocks

Onawalk wrote:
Not sure if youre being sarcastic here, but for benefit of the doubt. EXT makes light weight, high quality springs and adapters to fit most rear...

Not sure if youre being sarcastic here, but for benefit of the doubt.

EXT makes light weight, high quality springs and adapters to fit most rear shocks.  Think of it like an after market spring, that comes is smaller spring rate steps, to fit loads of other shocks.  Allows you to find a more refined setup, for those that think they need it.

sethimus wrote:
try order a complete bike from them with a fitting spring if you are over 105kg. or try pumping up your air shock over the manufacurer...

try order a complete bike from them with a fitting spring if you are over 105kg. or try pumping up your air shock over the manufacurer limit if you are in the same camp. not possible, because they decided on a 55mm stroke shock…

Wait wait wait, I can understand your point regarding the coil shocks, but how has the shock length anything to do with the max pressure you can put in an air shock ?

Primoz
Posts
4539
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
SI
8/1/2023 2:17pm Edited Date/Time 8/1/2023 2:17pm

A shorter shock for a given travel means a higher (overall) leverage ratio. A higher leverage ratio requires a stiffer spring (coil or air, so higher pressure with an air spring) to provide the same force (support) at the rear wheel. With a short shock heavier riders can fall outside the pressure limits to reach the desired force at the wheel.

13
AndehM
Posts
615
Joined
5/7/2018
Location
El Granada, CA US
8/1/2023 2:19pm
Onawalk wrote:
Not sure if youre being sarcastic here, but for benefit of the doubt. EXT makes light weight, high quality springs and adapters to fit most rear...

Not sure if youre being sarcastic here, but for benefit of the doubt.

EXT makes light weight, high quality springs and adapters to fit most rear shocks.  Think of it like an after market spring, that comes is smaller spring rate steps, to fit loads of other shocks.  Allows you to find a more refined setup, for those that think they need it.

sethimus wrote:
try order a complete bike from them with a fitting spring if you are over 105kg. or try pumping up your air shock over the manufacurer...

try order a complete bike from them with a fitting spring if you are over 105kg. or try pumping up your air shock over the manufacurer limit if you are in the same camp. not possible, because they decided on a 55mm stroke shock…

Aksel_Lfft wrote:
Wait wait wait, I can understand your point regarding the coil shocks, but how has the shock length anything to do with the max pressure you...

Wait wait wait, I can understand your point regarding the coil shocks, but how has the shock length anything to do with the max pressure you can put in an air shock ?

Because when you use a short stroke shock on a long travel bike, you need very high spring rates (either from a coil or air shock) for typical sag.  When I put a Cascade link on my Levo (55mm stroke), it went up from 150mm travel to 162mm, and required me to go up 75# in spring rate on my coil shock to get the same sag.  I don't recall what my air pressure was before, but with an air shock I'm now at 215 psi for a 170 lb rider.  If I was a typical fatass ebike rider, I'd be easily right up against the pressure limit of a lot of air shocks (~300-350 psi).

That's one of the reasons why Cascade makes a LS (Long Stroke) version of their link for the Levo which lets you use a 65mm stroke shock for the same travel.  Going by the usual spring rate calculators, that change would let me drop spring rates by about 175#, or about 30%.

When EXT released their air shock, I tried to figure out roughly what pressure I'd run on the same bike in 55mm stroke configuration, and even at my average weight, I'd need more than the maximum allowable for the ++ chamber.

5
8/1/2023 3:50pm Edited Date/Time 8/1/2023 3:52pm
sspomer wrote:

could be worse. santa cruz gen 2 super 8 with riders running 800, 900 and even 1000 pounds springs Wink

https://products.mtbr.com/product/older-categories-bikes/2002-full-susp…

older bikes often had very high spring rates, then we learnt that having spring and damper forces closer together is much better performance wise

The real problem with 55mm stroke shocks on enduro bikes is the lack of damping force, ive got a GT Force with a 55mm shock and its the one problem with it, spring force is fine. 

2
boozed
Posts
655
Joined
6/11/2019
Location
AU
8/1/2023 5:07pm

Well we can all calm down because measuring off that photo by scaling from the wheel rims indicates that it's a 205mm shock.

12
8/1/2023 7:19pm
thegromit wrote:
Has anyone graphed the kinematics of the supreme v5? I thought I had seen them on this thread but went back and couldn't find it. I...

Has anyone graphed the kinematics of the supreme v5? I thought I had seen them on this thread but went back and couldn't find it.

I rode the last generation this weekend and was blown away. I just wanted to compare the two.

The V4 and V5 are completely different bikes. The V5 is very close to the 23 Trek session with axle path. Goes back 10mm then forward...

The V4 and V5 are completely different bikes. The V5 is very close to the 23 Trek session with axle path. Goes back 10mm then forward to 0. The V5 is 40-45% progressive, the V4 was only like 20-25%.

I can’t find all the files, I found the axle path. There’s a few mock ups on Linkage Design program. 

IMG 9028

 

thegromit wrote:
I was curious what the anti rise is, it seemed like the old design had quite a bit compared to the new design and that is...

I was curious what the anti rise is, it seemed like the old design had quite a bit compared to the new design and that is what the main flaw was. I honestly didn't think it was all that bad under braking. That was the first bike I had ridden with anti squat number in the 150-170 range, I didn't know this at the time but when I would sprint or pedal I was surprised at how well it accelerated. 

I’ve heard the anti rise is about 90% at sag then goes lower, deeper in the travel. I can not confirm but it’s what I heard from someone who worked with Commencal. It does pedal better than the Trek Session, I can confirm that. And it’s a little less active under braking than the session.  

Onawalk
Posts
344
Joined
7/5/2021
Location
CA
8/1/2023 8:07pm
sspomer wrote:

could be worse. santa cruz gen 2 super 8 with riders running 800, 900 and even 1000 pounds springs Wink

https://products.mtbr.com/product/older-categories-bikes/2002-full-susp…

Deez kids jus don’t kno. pretty sure my 2001 RM7 came stock with a 900 pound spring. 2.25 stroke Vanilla RC for 7 inches of travel. 

Deez kids jus don’t kno.

pretty sure my 2001 RM7 came stock with a 900 pound spring. 2.25 stroke Vanilla RC for 7 inches of travel. Cool

Can confirm,

currently looking for a 1000lb spring for my RM-7 restoration project!

3
metadave
Posts
1244
Joined
2/15/2016
Location
Revelstoke, BC CA
8/1/2023 9:11pm
dolface wrote:

Moving to a vertical shock orientation...?

probably high pivot with an idler, lower mounted shock? Rocky Mountain rarely comes out with "crazy" or radical, groundbreaking stuff so I'm curious haha

dolface wrote:

They also use the same frame for the Altitude and Instinct, curious to see if they continue w/ that. 

They are not using the same frame, it's not even close. I don't think it's ground breaking, others are doing it, but it's certainly not what I expected and a huge departure from the current model and the rest of the line as a whole.

No idea on the embargo date yet. 

5
Onawalk
Posts
344
Joined
7/5/2021
Location
CA
8/1/2023 9:28pm

probably high pivot with an idler, lower mounted shock? Rocky Mountain rarely comes out with "crazy" or radical, groundbreaking stuff so I'm curious haha

dolface wrote:

They also use the same frame for the Altitude and Instinct, curious to see if they continue w/ that. 

metadave wrote:
They are not using the same frame, it's not even close. I don't think it's ground breaking, others are doing it, but it's certainly not what...

They are not using the same frame, it's not even close. I don't think it's ground breaking, others are doing it, but it's certainly not what I expected and a huge departure from the current model and the rest of the line as a whole.

No idea on the embargo date yet. 

The comment surprised me at first, so I went and took, looks way more than close.

Its definitively conceivable, with a slightly different link, and stroke shock, they could be the same frame.  Even the geo chart is pretty close honestly.

Weights are real similar as well....

2
8/1/2023 11:45pm Edited Date/Time 8/1/2023 11:48pm
dolface wrote:

They also use the same frame for the Altitude and Instinct, curious to see if they continue w/ that. 

metadave wrote:
They are not using the same frame, it's not even close. I don't think it's ground breaking, others are doing it, but it's certainly not what...

They are not using the same frame, it's not even close. I don't think it's ground breaking, others are doing it, but it's certainly not what I expected and a huge departure from the current model and the rest of the line as a whole.

No idea on the embargo date yet. 

Onawalk wrote:
The comment surprised me at first, so I went and took, looks way more than close. Its definitively conceivable, with a slightly different link, and stroke...

The comment surprised me at first, so I went and took, looks way more than close.

Its definitively conceivable, with a slightly different link, and stroke shock, they could be the same frame.  Even the geo chart is pretty close honestly.

Weights are real similar as well....

Isn’t he refering to the new, unreleased model that he can’t talk about? May be RM decided to separate the 2 models further apart for the new gen. Smile

My guess is they’re going HP for the enduro model and non-HP for the trail/AM model, kinda like Norco. More and more HP enduro bikes show up, with not so extreme high pivots, so may be that’s the golden point. I keep wondering what the HP Slash will be like detail-wise, cause i’m getting a lot of Chainsaw vibes from its pics till now. 

4
krabo83
Posts
717
Joined
12/26/2017
Location
AT
8/2/2023 2:55am

underwhelming IMO

IMG 9075

3
8/2/2023 3:33am

So what’s so state-of-the-art that they kept it under wraps for so much time? 
 

5
8/2/2023 3:40am

So what’s so state-of-the-art that they kept it under wraps for so much time? 
 

I think it is probably more a case of hiding it while they go through multiple iterations of the design before they reach a point where they are happy to release it and show the public? And while it may not look like a significant change to the average person, kinematics wise, the changes they have done to the linkages can make a significant difference to the ride feel.

8/2/2023 3:54am

IMG 7967

11
8/2/2023 4:10am

These kind of covers are widespread now and they are eye-catching, and I think that's what their purpose is. Any thoughts on the shock being mounted on the rear triangle and side-loads? 

4
8/2/2023 4:35am

So what’s so state-of-the-art that they kept it under wraps for so much time? 
 

According to the seatstay, it's still a ''wrap''...

 

1
C-LION
Posts
129
Joined
10/29/2018
Location
CH
8/2/2023 5:28am

Dear community, any info on when the new Trek Slash will be released? It looked very production-ready to me in the latest spy shots…

4
1
Onawalk
Posts
344
Joined
7/5/2021
Location
CA
8/2/2023 6:32am
metadave wrote:
They are not using the same frame, it's not even close. I don't think it's ground breaking, others are doing it, but it's certainly not what...

They are not using the same frame, it's not even close. I don't think it's ground breaking, others are doing it, but it's certainly not what I expected and a huge departure from the current model and the rest of the line as a whole.

No idea on the embargo date yet. 

Onawalk wrote:
The comment surprised me at first, so I went and took, looks way more than close. Its definitively conceivable, with a slightly different link, and stroke...

The comment surprised me at first, so I went and took, looks way more than close.

Its definitively conceivable, with a slightly different link, and stroke shock, they could be the same frame.  Even the geo chart is pretty close honestly.

Weights are real similar as well....

Isn’t he refering to the new, unreleased model that he can’t talk about? May be RM decided to separate the 2 models further apart for the...

Isn’t he refering to the new, unreleased model that he can’t talk about? May be RM decided to separate the 2 models further apart for the new gen. Smile

My guess is they’re going HP for the enduro model and non-HP for the trail/AM model, kinda like Norco. More and more HP enduro bikes show up, with not so extreme high pivots, so may be that’s the golden point. I keep wondering what the HP Slash will be like detail-wise, cause i’m getting a lot of Chainsaw vibes from its pics till now. 

It’s all speculation really, so who knows.

the comment on the Altitude and Instinct being the same frame I figured was referencing the current models, and I’ll be damned if I could pick out any real differences other than link and rear shock.

Norcos bikes are a strange one to me, that Range is a beast, and I think racers are still leaning towards the Sight as the race bike.  The new carbon Fluid makes me think the new Optic is a HP, idler affair, similar to the V2 Druid, and I’m stoked to see it!

2
1
sspomer
Posts
6055
Joined
6/26/2009
Location
Boise, ID US
8/2/2023 8:57am

pit bits from world champs. has mondraker in there

 

 

8/2/2023 10:07am
krabo83 wrote:
underwhelming IMO

underwhelming IMO

IMG 9075

As seen in pit bits video.

Mondraker now mounts to rear triangle, not lower link. It has adjustable rear triangle plates for stiffness and bolt in BB bracket. Even though it looks like the old frame, I bet it ride’s completely different!

IMG 1892IMG 1896.jpeg?VersionId=0J 4Qjr11yIMG 1897.jpeg?VersionId=6CiVkY8MJ8MDobvzbDGL6PJMIDrfZ

10
8/2/2023 1:58pm
krabo83 wrote:
underwhelming IMO

underwhelming IMO

IMG 9075

As seen in pit bits video. Mondraker now mounts to rear triangle, not lower link. It has adjustable rear triangle plates for stiffness and bolt in...

As seen in pit bits video.

Mondraker now mounts to rear triangle, not lower link. It has adjustable rear triangle plates for stiffness and bolt in BB bracket. Even though it looks like the old frame, I bet it ride’s completely different!

IMG 1892IMG 1896.jpeg?VersionId=0J 4Qjr11yIMG 1897.jpeg?VersionId=6CiVkY8MJ8MDobvzbDGL6PJMIDrfZ

Bolt on BB is a great way to manipulate your Front/Rear center ratio while not changing much else and really isolate the effect of said ratio and basically CS length. Great for a test mule but could also be nice to see on a commercially available bike.

1
Kadester
Posts
6
Joined
1/27/2021
Location
Lake Elsinore, CA US
8/2/2023 2:50pm

IMG 2695
new fox 32??

7
TayRob
Posts
129
Joined
7/14/2021
Location
CA US
8/2/2023 3:12pm
Kadester wrote:
new fox 32??

IMG 2695
new fox 32??

Sure does look like it. They obviously learned something and drew a lot of inspiration from their gravel fork.

1
One Ghost
Posts
159
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
Tacoma, WA US
8/2/2023 3:43pm
sspomer wrote:
worlds pit bits 1 - https://www.vitalmtb.com/photos/features/pit-bits-1-world-champs-2023/frameworks-nekos-steel-and-carbon-build

I've done this. Expando foam in the frame to make is dead silent. Just use sparingly as too much will actually crack a frame. 

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