MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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lickmycrinkle
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6/3/2023 4:29am
From Bernhards insta story:    

From Bernhards insta story:

Pivot.jpg?VersionId=oXSvXr3gGVrEuzjpGAW6 Pivot2

 

Just saw him in Schladming, he's riding a differently stickered proto today. Unlikely that he'd go through the effort of changing overnight imo

6/3/2023 4:54am
 

Looks like it’s maybe been retrofitted to a Repeater too?

TayRob wrote:
I’ve heard through the grape vine Transition is scrambling to find a motor supplier moving forward due to all the Fauza system failures Pivot is experiencing...

I’ve heard through the grape vine Transition is scrambling to find a motor supplier moving forward due to all the Fauza system failures Pivot is experiencing. I wonder if Sram is stepping in to help…

Fixed the cable routing in the repeater too by the looks.

4
veefour
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Cinderford, GB
6/3/2023 6:06am

Fixed the cable routing in the repeater too by the looks.

I know some people say it's not a problem (certainly not a fan myself), but the overwhelming amount of comments I've seen about headset routing have been negative. It'll be interesting to see whether other manufacturers (and which ones) will follow suit. 

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uina
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6/3/2023 8:49am

Screenshot 2023-06-03-17-46-08-191 com.instagram.android.jpg?VersionId=V 3UQjeApKPoOTS8o kswnd0l2SyYW

 Screenshot 2023-06-03-17-45-02-073 com.instagram.android.jpg?VersionId=.SoPIVWK.gbKU1 AtbtFlC9T0b

 Screenshot 2023-06-03-17-45-18-148 com.instagram.android

 Some more pictures of the pivots new DH

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lickmycrinkle
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6/3/2023 9:00am

IMG 20230603 175922 669

 

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6/3/2023 11:50am
uina wrote:
     Some more pictures of the pivots new DH

Screenshot 2023-06-03-17-46-08-191 com.instagram.android.jpg?VersionId=V 3UQjeApKPoOTS8o kswnd0l2SyYW

 Screenshot 2023-06-03-17-45-02-073 com.instagram.android.jpg?VersionId=.SoPIVWK.gbKU1 AtbtFlC9T0b

 Screenshot 2023-06-03-17-45-18-148 com.instagram.android

 Some more pictures of the pivots new DH

Definitely some variant of the DW6 then; nice pauses @uina. I went ahead and laid out a very rough draft in Linkage, but without a clear side view it's fairly difficult to get any sort of accuracy, and I don't know if we'll ever get a clear look at the tiny linkage driving the chainstay. The finer characteristics are very sensitive to small link adjustments, so again take this with a heavy grain of salt (changing the orientation of the two short links for anti-squat could make the end of the leverage curve regressive, linear, or progressive; I went with what made the most sense to me).

Screenshot 2023-06-03 114451.png?VersionId=T7kshr.

 

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rpjn
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6/3/2023 12:46pm

1AEE13AD-EE15-49AE-9E36-71C2D8A3C82F.png?VersionId=

 Assume they will be racing this then given its now being openly shared and it’s so close to the season starting. I hope so!

4
6/3/2023 1:08pm

To me, it looks like the Pivot is a regular dual link design. I can't see any pivots near the dropouts nor aditional links  It looks like the lower link can be mounted higher or lower on the front triangle, and there is an idler mount there as well. I guess they are/were testing many different configurations. 

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nicompr
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6/3/2023 2:21pm

p4pb24897660.jpg?VersionId=O8br4Qnk0K0TZzljLzsuh97JPwDHw K

 

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Primoz
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6/3/2023 2:47pm
To me, it looks like the Pivot is a regular dual link design. I can't see any pivots near the dropouts nor aditional links  It looks...

To me, it looks like the Pivot is a regular dual link design. I can't see any pivots near the dropouts nor aditional links  It looks like the lower link can be mounted higher or lower on the front triangle, and there is an idler mount there as well. I guess they are/were testing many different configurations. 

For it to be a standard DW Link it would have to have a vertical brace. There is a seatstay link hiding in there. And judging by the screen grabs it's very clear it's a DW6.

3
Uncle Cliffy
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6/3/2023 6:08pm

IMG 2697.jpeg?VersionId=Xd9Cx7SOIypcQl

I feel like people keep forgetting about this, so I’ll re-post it.

9
metadave
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6/3/2023 9:37pm Edited Date/Time 6/3/2023 9:38pm

On the Fauza comments, half of the battery's have failed on shop bikes before they're even sold and trek dropped them hard and fast for hub motors. They're software is terrible to update and work with. It's not been great. 

Honestly, every e-bike system seems like it's just getting into public beta and the first two gens were alpha testing for those who were brave enough. The failure rate at shop level for large shops should be considered embarrassing for the industry and while some of the software available is helpful, everything is different and while you're able to track down a likely issue, at this point for the cost of the bikes, a shop should be able to plug in and find the fault down to a wire so you don't need to spend 3 hours guessing and trying stuff that doesn't work only to get strung along by a support person who is going by a slightly more in depth tech pdf but hasn't had any real hands on experience. There usually only one person per bike company who actually knows how it all works it seems and stuff that comes on some of them just aren't available aftermarket like light mounts. It just seems like everyone's trying to run hurdles before they can crawl. 

There are some outlying models that seem to be great so far, TQ motors, rocky powerplay 4.0's, but the rest just seem to have enough issues without fast enough customer support for someone who just dumped 6k into a commuter bike. 

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gbcoke
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6/3/2023 10:34pm Edited Date/Time 6/3/2023 10:36pm
metadave wrote:
On the Fauza comments, half of the battery's have failed on shop bikes before they're even sold and trek dropped them hard and fast for hub...

On the Fauza comments, half of the battery's have failed on shop bikes before they're even sold and trek dropped them hard and fast for hub motors. They're software is terrible to update and work with. It's not been great. 

Honestly, every e-bike system seems like it's just getting into public beta and the first two gens were alpha testing for those who were brave enough. The failure rate at shop level for large shops should be considered embarrassing for the industry and while some of the software available is helpful, everything is different and while you're able to track down a likely issue, at this point for the cost of the bikes, a shop should be able to plug in and find the fault down to a wire so you don't need to spend 3 hours guessing and trying stuff that doesn't work only to get strung along by a support person who is going by a slightly more in depth tech pdf but hasn't had any real hands on experience. There usually only one person per bike company who actually knows how it all works it seems and stuff that comes on some of them just aren't available aftermarket like light mounts. It just seems like everyone's trying to run hurdles before they can crawl. 

There are some outlying models that seem to be great so far, TQ motors, rocky powerplay 4.0's, but the rest just seem to have enough issues without fast enough customer support for someone who just dumped 6k into a commuter bike. 

Unfortunatly putting out unfinished/not reliable products is a common practice in our industry.

However,for most products the fix/replacment is rather easy and quick and at worst will cost the customer or dealer a few hundred $$ to replace.

E systems on the other hand are a whole different story as you dont really have an option to replace them with other brand products.Further more,stocking such parts is crazy expensive even if you get credit as a dealer after it's deemed a warranty.

Bike brands will have to really choose wisely what system they use as the aftermath of a crap e-system can really hurt them .

2
matmattmatthew
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6/4/2023 5:02am

I'm not interested in E-bikes and don't really follow E-bike news,  It's also been 15+ years since working in a shop, so the motor failure rates are news to me.  Is this perhaps one of the reasons Sram has been waiting so long to release their own motor?  From an outsider's perspective, it seems like they were sort of "late to the party."  Now I'm wondering if it was strategic.

6
metadave
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6/4/2023 6:58am
I'm not interested in E-bikes and don't really follow E-bike news,  It's also been 15+ years since working in a shop, so the motor failure rates...

I'm not interested in E-bikes and don't really follow E-bike news,  It's also been 15+ years since working in a shop, so the motor failure rates are news to me.  Is this perhaps one of the reasons Sram has been waiting so long to release their own motor?  From an outsider's perspective, it seems like they were sort of "late to the party."  Now I'm wondering if it was strategic.

Motor failures, battery failures, wires pinched in builds because the wire management sucks, bad controllers, bad software, support programs that are super vague. 

One huge issue currently is in super busy season when you're booking a couple weeks out, is that you now have random ebike stuff come in you have to manage to fit in to the week or you get people calling about how they just dropped 14k on their bike and it's broken, and you know what, that's a fair point. I now have to fit it into my day some how. It could be 10 minutes or it could be 3 hours only to have to wait 2-3 weeks for parts while that customer is calling daily. It's super stressful and I guarantee soon you start to see experienced mechanics at your local shops start to leave because of it all, I'm already seeing people burn out. Any other industry and a product would get dumped so fast if it was released in this state. And really all the training is basically a couple generic videos or PDF's that always end in "call for help".

9
Primoz
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6/4/2023 7:32am
I'm not interested in E-bikes and don't really follow E-bike news,  It's also been 15+ years since working in a shop, so the motor failure rates...

I'm not interested in E-bikes and don't really follow E-bike news,  It's also been 15+ years since working in a shop, so the motor failure rates are news to me.  Is this perhaps one of the reasons Sram has been waiting so long to release their own motor?  From an outsider's perspective, it seems like they were sort of "late to the party."  Now I'm wondering if it was strategic.

I think originally the strategy was to skip the drive components and partner with Bosch to offer a complete build. But that was in the old, early days of e-bikes (QED, small, 15T Xsync sprockets for older Bosch drive units). Clearly the strategy changed.

sethimus
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CH
6/4/2023 9:28am
I'm not interested in E-bikes and don't really follow E-bike news,  It's also been 15+ years since working in a shop, so the motor failure rates...

I'm not interested in E-bikes and don't really follow E-bike news,  It's also been 15+ years since working in a shop, so the motor failure rates are news to me.  Is this perhaps one of the reasons Sram has been waiting so long to release their own motor?  From an outsider's perspective, it seems like they were sort of "late to the party."  Now I'm wondering if it was strategic.

nope, they just bought one (amprio, ex rheinmetall spin-off)

TayRob
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6/4/2023 9:45am
I'm not interested in E-bikes and don't really follow E-bike news,  It's also been 15+ years since working in a shop, so the motor failure rates...

I'm not interested in E-bikes and don't really follow E-bike news,  It's also been 15+ years since working in a shop, so the motor failure rates are news to me.  Is this perhaps one of the reasons Sram has been waiting so long to release their own motor?  From an outsider's perspective, it seems like they were sort of "late to the party."  Now I'm wondering if it was strategic.

The local Pivot dealer to me has sold 6 of the fancy, schmancy Shuttle SL models, 4 have come back with motor, battery, or both issues. Pivot refuses to help because they don’t produce the parts, so they’re stuck calling the US distro and getting little to no help because as stated, they have zero hands on experience and are just reading off of an incomplete PDF sheet or exploded diagram. So yeah, you’ve got a group of customers with 9-13k near paper weights and the techs have to spend hours upon hours trying this, that, and the other thing.

3
gbcoke
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6/4/2023 10:30am

 Pivot have jumped the gun with Fazua with the intention to be the first bike out with the system and get ahead of other brands

in hope to sell as much as possible.

The problem was that Fazua ride 60 system was not really ready for prime time.

After some critical updates,including a new (better) remote I hear the system is much more reliable and works better (smoother power delivery).

All in all it's a real shame customers are the real testers and the systems are'nt as bullet proof as they should be.

2
Primoz
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6/4/2023 10:36am

Is this specifically related to a new Fazua system (the Ride 60)? Because Fazua has been on the market for a few years now...

gbcoke
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6/4/2023 11:02am
Primoz wrote:

Is this specifically related to a new Fazua system (the Ride 60)? Because Fazua has been on the market for a few years now...

Ride 50 (the older system) was not that popular on mtb's (used on Lapierre and not alot of other brands) though I don't believe they had as much issues with it.

2
6/4/2023 7:23pm
gbcoke wrote:
 Pivot have jumped the gun with Fazua with the intention to be the first bike out with the system and get ahead of other brands in...

 Pivot have jumped the gun with Fazua with the intention to be the first bike out with the system and get ahead of other brands

in hope to sell as much as possible.

The problem was that Fazua ride 60 system was not really ready for prime time.

After some critical updates,including a new (better) remote I hear the system is much more reliable and works better (smoother power delivery).

All in all it's a real shame customers are the real testers and the systems are'nt as bullet proof as they should be.

Agreed. Nobody should be splonking down 5 figures only to unknowingly be essentially just a beta tester.

6/4/2023 9:41pm

Agreed. Nobody should be splonking down 5 figures only to unknowingly be essentially just a beta tester.

not a whole lot of difference to buying a commencal lol.

7
BuzzLover
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Offenhausen, AT
6/5/2023 1:43am
 

IMG 20230603 175922 669

 

Talked to Bernhard in Schladming. He said the bike is sick, rides better and faster then the old one. I bet he and jake will race them!

 

1
FullSend
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DE
6/5/2023 2:01am Edited Date/Time 6/5/2023 2:03am
 

IMG 20230603 175922 669

 

BuzzLover wrote:
Talked to Bernhard in Schladming. He said the bike is sick, rides better and faster then the old one. I bet he and jake will race...

Talked to Bernhard in Schladming. He said the bike is sick, rides better and faster then the old one. I bet he and jake will race them!

 

I mean he would say that, wouldn't he. Doesn't he also own the business that imports Pivot bikes into the UK? (Besides owning the Pivot Factory racing team I mean.)

7
Primoz
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6/5/2023 2:15am

Exactly my thought. With marketing at least you get some percentage points of stiffness improvements to back up those claims. 

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kcy4130
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6/5/2023 4:17am
FullSend wrote:
I mean he would say that, wouldn't he. Doesn't he also own the business that imports Pivot bikes into the UK? (Besides owning the Pivot Factory...

I mean he would say that, wouldn't he. Doesn't he also own the business that imports Pivot bikes into the UK? (Besides owning the Pivot Factory racing team I mean.)

He would be motivated/obligated to say that it's better of course. But that doesn't mean it's untrue. It would take significant and widespread incompetence for a company to make a new bike that is worse than it's predecessor. It does happen but not often. Prototyping/developing a new bike is expensive and usually not undertaken unless everyone is fairly confident that the new version will be a marked improvement. 

Evil96
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6/5/2023 4:37am

IMG 6618.png?VersionId=tP5WoVbIR8oiNNQdKmv48AEafEEe

 Saw this on the latest Jeff Kendal Weed video about the Epocalypse, he was at the Evil HQ and they said it’s a prototype so it couldn’t be shown, any idea of what it could be?IMG 6617 0.png?VersionId=2uOA66yb

 

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jamesma
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Easthampton, MA, USA
6/5/2023 6:24am
Any thoughts on short stem but longer reach bikes from Rulezman video? https://youtube.com/watch?v=oCi9LzaMm10&feature=share    

Any thoughts on short stem but longer reach bikes from Rulezman video?

https://youtube.com/watch?v=oCi9LzaMm10&feature=share

0136FCBB-B352-45DC-A5C7-6A13226C34F0

 AE9FB4EB-567C-4FC2-A5FF-FA86893C03B7.jpeg?VersionId=loN1rBuEEk7.kY0FCSuJS

 

I think it's great that more stems with shorter offsets are coming to market, but I don't agree with Rulezman's view that everybody would be better off running a super short (i.e. 18mm) offset stem. I think there's a case to be made for stems longer than 18mm, depending on intended use and personal preference.

1
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