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He said the original prototype they raced last year was 41-43 or thereabouts. They've had the 'new' prototype (that was light) since the fall and it sounds like it was still too heavy. So this is the next version. That he said 'should be production'. Looks like a lot of loam and mud will collect in there. Love that Jeff is teasing the frame 2 weeks before the season. So bad. Should have been in racer's hands months ago--as Dakota eluded to on the podcast.
I don't know what everyone is worrying about, they'll get at least 4 runs before qualifying, thats heaps. I only need 2 for my local races.
I don't think she was running it for tire clearance, probably more for proof of concept. I seem to remember that the picture was from practice, then during the race she was running the current AXS post. I could imagine Sram would prefer an XC racer to test out the new post because if there was an issue they could just roll into the pits and deal with it, whereas if they had an Enduro Racer testing the post during practice and there was an issue that could really screw up their practice session and potentially hurt their chances in the race.
Eh, that’s the thing about internet randos—you can’t trust ‘em…
Joe Breeden seems to be getting along dandy fine with the heavy bike in this week's Vital RAW. And I thought people were adding lead weights to their bottom brackets last season. Seems like you have to do a lot of work to shave 5 pounds off a frame. Would be shocked if it's that much.
The heavy bike was the one they were using last year, which was built like a tank. They are trying to shave some weight from the current version (completely different frame shape).
Dakota mentioned that he thinks he’s losing time in pedal sections on a heavy bike no matter how hard he is pushing. He said this bike, they are trying to make more well rounded.
It’s a good podcast that talks a lot about the new bike.
I went from a large V10 to a large Supreme V5, same exact parts except for headset cups and bottom bracket. V10 was 37lb 5oz, Supreme is 41lb 6oz.
I can’t imagine the Commencal team is running a bike that heavy. Maybe you can shave 4 or 5lbs with thinner tubing? Team bikes won’t need the long-term durability of a consumer product.
well it‘s not like commencal is known for durability lately.
Might explain the weight of this tank.
Doubt it. I’d guess 1/2 the frame weight is in linkages, dropouts, forgings for pivots, bolts, bearings etc. things that won’t change when using different tubes
going to lighter tubing could probably save a few pounds but not 5. Would also be scary and I’d hope they would test lab cycle a few frames before sending racers out on them.
Someone (Breeden) posting a shred video on a bike is a lot different from Dakota saying the (original proto) bike was super heavy and it was holding him and Aaron back. And as was said a few posts ago, the version they've been on since the fall is lighter than the '22 race bike, but still too heavy for Dak and Gwin--hence the new frame having tweaks and further weight reduction.
As to riders putting weights on bikes... that was a thing, for a few minutes. No one is strapping lead to their bikes at world cup races regularly haha.
And weight was put on light bikes to lower the CG or change the riding characteristics...
@Dave_Camp I wouldn't be surprised if it's far more than half the weight in the non-tubing parts given the thickness of these parts. Plus all the pivot axles, bearings are a chunk of steel, etc.
Here's a wild idea, maybe the bike is so heavy because it has so many links? Maybe there is something to the 'looks like a session' thing?
https://www.ragleybikes.com/blogs/news/ragley-2023
They even sound a little sorry about having to make changes, seems quite funny to me. I think the 29er lineup was in need of a tuneup (they may even open a gap for a small size Big Al/Big Wig now, with that 455mm reach for the medium being the smallest size) but I fell they may went to far with the 27.5 models, as a huge fan of the brand I owned 3 mmmbops since 2019, I even run a back to back test between de medium and the large and I found the last one a little bit unbalanced, the chainstays being on the short side paired with a very long front center the bike even started to feel like a shoping cart or a boat in some turns. straigth line stability was better of course and is just like, my opinion man
. Hardtails should be playfull, I ride my mmmbop with a 140 fork now, but I tested a mullet setup and other fork lengths too during the years.
The "good thing" is that for people that like to size up there is now:
a) even little reason to do it
b) a shorter seat tube if you are still stubborn like that.
My bikes always feel steeper in the seat angle than the 74° they claimed so maybe they dont even really change the frames, just the geo table.
Maybe the sweet spot with this brand switched from the more aggro option to the new marleys, these are the more apealing options for me going forward. ( By the way, I switch frames 3 times in 5 years because I just like to share the hardcore hardtail LOVE with my friends. They love them too now, but is that kind of thing that you are may not be able to understand until you try)
some bits of pits from DHSE mtn creek
https://www.vitalmtb.com/photos/features/pit-bits-downhill-southeast-mo…
The Intense HP6 only has "1/2" a link more than a normal Horst Link DH bike, the link driving the shock from the chainstay pivot, because the normal rocker link terminates at the seat-tube junction, where as normally on a horst link bike that will drive the shock as well.
The extra weight of the Intense is because the seat tube, bottom back shock area is an absolute cluster fuck. The shock is fixed to the seat-tube which they have extended out, which is very suboptimal as normally you don't load a seat-tube in that direction a lot, shocks are normally loaded downwards in the BB (good as BB has to be strong anyway), into the downtube (good as its already the largest tube normally) or along the top tube.
So they have to now have a super strong seat-tube area, and the entire juction with the BB is super wack, it goes at like a 45 across to link the triangles together which is why the BB has that huge brace section in it. There is no real harmony between the high-load points of the frame.
I'm sure they will be able to bring the weight down slowly, I'm just thankful I don't need to pump and pickup a 45lb beast down a 3 minute DH track.
I once rode a Brooklyn Supertrucker that weighed 68 lbs. The hub was messed up but it didn't matter. Just point it downhill and it picked up speed pretty quick. And people are riding heavy assed ebikes pretty quick downhill.
I've no doubt you can ride heavy bikes quick.
But were not talking about quick here, were talking about being the fastest in the world. DH is incredibly physical, having to lug extra weight around does not make the job easier, once the bike weighs enough to be stable and predictable, anything above that is just making the riders job harder, having to pump, pick up the rear end, lift the front, everything takes more effort. Down a track like Val di Sole, that means you will lose time.
Only way to solve this is to do back to back testing of a gambler (lightest DH bike?) and a yz250 (engine pulled) both chainless at Val de Sole
New schwalbe on Danny Hart's insta
It's the unreleased dry tire they seem to be refusing to bring to the market. Given Schwalbe's riders have been using proto tires the past few season, I guess they will update their entire lineup soon: this new model plus different compounds.
Long term durability when talking about Crackmencal?
Reminds me of the Hutchinson Octopus: https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/products/10134/photos/8406/s1600_TI703A00…
Being old I remember the 'Commenfail' era of the Meta5/6. And we sold a LOT of them.......and they ALL cracked :0(. But that was in the past, apart from the Supreme issues not heard of any significant failures since then.
My V5 is 42ish and my Trek Session was 39ish. All same parts.
The linkage, bearings and bolts are pretty can heavy on the V5. If you remove the seatstay bolts they are thick steel. Just those 2 alone I was like “wow” then add up about 12 other bolts.
Personally I don’t mind the weight, I bet the team is running full ti bolts and potentially could have links made in other materials to save weight.
My 5.5 took 7 years to crack on the swingarm (non drive side, brake fatigue). Apparently the most common crack of the top tube to seat tube joint was limited to medium and small frames, L and XL were OK.
Top tube/seat tube junction. Upper shock mount (on L/xl). Linkage mount on the down tube. Iirc we sold 24 in 2010 and replaced all bar one of them. At one point I had 11 boxes of components waiting for replacement frames to arrive. Several customers had multiple frames replaced. It was a stressful time to be running a workshop!
i went through 3 meta frames this year in about 3.5 months.
2 TR's cracked at shock mount, SX broke at the chainstay.
Friend of mine had his TR seperate the headtube on a small drop and he spent 2 weeks in hospital... i believe this is ongoing.
Looks like the same frame, even the idler that Mondraker tested isn’t present. Probably to hide some new shock or something!
Thought it could be the Vorsprung shock, but then saw the name on the screenshot - Sprung… or yet again, come to think of it since they’re using Fox, it might be a new Fox shock…