Not a flip chip. It’s just an insert so you can screw the bolt in from the other side and not have it turn. If you were to flip it, the bolt wouldn’t be able to thread in.
They have indeed been using the Range for downhill. The DH configuration uses different drop outs and a different lower shock link/extension.
Sorry to hijack the Topic but:
SHOULD Every bike come with replaceable threaded inserts???
After owning a Canyon bike with these inserts im a huuuge fan, Technically should make the frame last longer in situations. I remember stripping one on a Rocky Altitude '21 on an alloy frame and They werent going to warranty it - I sent my Torque wrench to them and they sent me a replacemant frame
Sorry to hijack the Topic but:
SHOULD Every bike come with replaceable threaded inserts???
After owning a Canyon bike with these inserts im a huuuge fan...
Sorry to hijack the Topic but:
SHOULD Every bike come with replaceable threaded inserts???
After owning a Canyon bike with these inserts im a huuuge fan, Technically should make the frame last longer in situations. I remember stripping one on a Rocky Altitude '21 on an alloy frame and They werent going to warranty it - I sent my Torque wrench to them and they sent me a replacemant frame
It would be nice from a repairability standpoint, but each one represents a potential creak that could develop.
It would be nice from a repairability standpoint, but each one represents a potential creak that could develop.
interesting, i think that Manfs need to get Quality right in this instance where those inserts are tight, the Canyon ones are good as they have a small screw that holds them in aswell and a high torque(a trick is to use carbon paste on them aswell.
Looks like prototype calipers on Brosnan's bike from the latest pit bits video. They are painted red and have a cover attached to them. They look one piece and beefy too.
Looks like prototype calipers on Brosnan's bike from the latest pit bits video. They are painted red and have a cover attached to them. They look...
Looks like prototype calipers on Brosnan's bike from the latest pit bits video. They are painted red and have a cover attached to them. They look one piece and beefy too.
Burn the Burn with fire.
Unno are no longer desirable.
That new calliper is 2 piece (see 2nd pic of the gallery).
And interestingly in the 3rd pic it has 2 pad retaining pins which suggests there are 4 pads in there ala MT7.
Very few calipers today are one piece as it requires a lot of complicated machining and assembly to make it work.
It actually has a single retaining pin and 4 bolts holding it together - see the 3rd pic, where the middle black bolt is the retaining pin, all the silver bolts hold the two halves together. So a single pad per side I'm guessing, but 2nd pic miiight show something similar to a 'tail' like the 1st gen Codes and Elixirs had? 3rd pic doesn't show that, so inconclusive.
Other than that, the new caliper looks like it's a much burlier affair than the current Code caliper, given the amount of material and 4 bolts it appears to be a stronger, stiffer affair giving more braking power.
EDIT: a friend of mine pointed out that with 4 bolts holding the caliper together top loading is out of the question. Could be that the 'tail' could be present to remove them with pliers again. The question is if the pin will be making an appearance again? With bottom loading pads it's almost essential as losing the retaining pin, you need something holding the pad in. With a top loading pad, it more or less stays there (in most configurations lets say, there might be some issues on the fork, but I digress). With a bottom loading pad, the pin holds it in place against the rotor, preventing from it falling out.
Oh yeah, good spot. I didn't notice the black pin.
4 calliper bolts though. Thats going to be one burly brake (potentially)
1 piece callipers are not that hard. Magura forge all of theirs, even their bottom rung MT Sport (which is one of the cheapest hydro brakes out there.
Once the Calliper is shaped they "just: drill a few holes (pistons, fluid channels and ports)cut a slot for the rotor and pads, and its done. Very simple and very efficient.
Its only Hope that make it unnecessarily complicated because they machine everything from the start.
New Canyon LUX to be revealed very soon, possibly as early as this Weekend.
I don't have much to tell you, there's no surprises with this one. From what my contact told me it's more evolution than revolution. It's basically exactly what you'd expect from a XC race bike in 2022. A little lighter, a little more progressive angles, headset-integradted cable routing, etc. The only somewhat surprising thing is, that is apparently utilizes a rear shock technology which was patented and licensed by Orbea.
Nino Schurter has a new dropper post, thinner silver collar compared to his regular 100mm reverb axs (you can see the current reverb axs on the rider behinds bike in the second pic). He uses a blip button in his grip rather than the axs paddle and I can't see any extra cables...
From Instagram.
Edit: looks like it's a Yep Podio with a silver collar. I suppose the reverb AXS was too heavy.
Oh yeah, good spot. I didn't notice the black pin.
4 calliper bolts though. Thats going to be one burly brake (potentially)
1 piece callipers are...
Oh yeah, good spot. I didn't notice the black pin.
4 calliper bolts though. Thats going to be one burly brake (potentially)
1 piece callipers are not that hard. Magura forge all of theirs, even their bottom rung MT Sport (which is one of the cheapest hydro brakes out there.
Once the Calliper is shaped they "just: drill a few holes (pistons, fluid channels and ports)cut a slot for the rotor and pads, and its done. Very simple and very efficient.
Its only Hope that make it unnecessarily complicated because they machine everything from the start.
For the holes for the pistons, it's a matter of drilling them out. Simple. You then need a slot cutter to cut the O-ring groove and I'm guessing the same tool is used to cut a passage behind the two pistons (just an undercut under the bridge between the pistons).
I'm not a CNC/manufacturing/tooling expert, far from it, but cutting a single piece caliper, by reaching into a deeper hole, possibly requires a longer stem on said cutter, which could influence the cycle times - the longer stem will be more flexible, so tooling loads need to be lower to prevent breakage or tool flexing. It could also influence the tolerances as achieving the same tolerance with a more flexible tool could require more passes required to achieve the same material removal at lower forces. Machining the parts will likely be the cost driver for a part like this as opposed to the material cost itself, so having a shorter manufacturing time makes it cheaper.
The bigger issue is the fluid channels - I don't see an easy way for the through-caliper bleed with the bleeding edge (tm) nipple approach with a single piece caliper, if at all. Using plugs or something similar might make it possible, but there's the question of sealing them and so on. You can see how Magura has the banjo bolt and the bleed bolt drilled into the caliper at an angle - to reach into the cavity under the pistons from either side, probably crossing over the two holes in the middle of the caliper.
Production wise, a single piece caliper brings a lot of challenges and an increase in costs when it comes to manufacturing, some challenges for the assembly and servicing (a special tool or uncommonly large torx bits for the piston cover) with a small weight advantage and likely very minimal, if at all, stiffness gains. I'm not surprised to see so few single piece calipers out there.
Re machining calipers,
- piston seal groove geometry is interesting. They are not square. About a 7deg taper on the outer surface. The top edge usually has a shallow angle chamfer to help control how the seal flexes outward. On a single piece caliper you'd need two different tools to cut the grooves. One for each side. Not the end of the world, but more custom tools. Custom ground stuff is a pain.
- calipers aren't very wide so regardless of whether it's single piece or two pieces the length of tools isn't an issue. Except for the drills...
- drills that are quite long relative to their diameter are used. These are a pain as they like to break. Definitely have to baby these so the fewer cross drilled holes the better.
- lots of calipers out there have holes that are drilled through from the outside and then plugged. Not hard to plug holes or uncommon. But with two piece calipers you never have to plug holes.
- imo the hardest part about machining single piece calipers is that you have to also make a plug for the side of the caliper that you machine the bores from. That means thread mills and even more sealing surfaces. More possible points of failure.
- two piece calipers can be made plenty stiff. Most of the flex in our calipers does not happen at the bolted joint.
- clearance to the spokes can cause banjo fittings to need to be at an angle. Found that out the hard way once.
- one of the biggest limiting factors for two piece calipers is the distance between the post mounts. Between fitting screws, bleed valves, and fluid channels, there isn't much space left for pistons to get much bigger than 18/16 or 17/17.
Very curious to see what all Sram has going on with these new brakes.
They have indeed been using the Range for downhill. The DH configuration uses different drop outs and a different lower shock link/extension.
SHOULD Every bike come with replaceable threaded inserts???
After owning a Canyon bike with these inserts im a huuuge fan, Technically should make the frame last longer in situations. I remember stripping one on a Rocky Altitude '21 on an alloy frame and They werent going to warranty it - I sent my Torque wrench to them and they sent me a replacemant frame
https://i.imgur.com/05Og5ya.png
Unno are no longer desirable.
That new calliper is 2 piece (see 2nd pic of the gallery).
And interestingly in the 3rd pic it has 2 pad retaining pins which suggests there are 4 pads in there ala MT7.
It actually has a single retaining pin and 4 bolts holding it together - see the 3rd pic, where the middle black bolt is the retaining pin, all the silver bolts hold the two halves together. So a single pad per side I'm guessing, but 2nd pic miiight show something similar to a 'tail' like the 1st gen Codes and Elixirs had? 3rd pic doesn't show that, so inconclusive.
Other than that, the new caliper looks like it's a much burlier affair than the current Code caliper, given the amount of material and 4 bolts it appears to be a stronger, stiffer affair giving more braking power.
EDIT: a friend of mine pointed out that with 4 bolts holding the caliper together top loading is out of the question. Could be that the 'tail' could be present to remove them with pliers again. The question is if the pin will be making an appearance again? With bottom loading pads it's almost essential as losing the retaining pin, you need something holding the pad in. With a top loading pad, it more or less stays there (in most configurations lets say, there might be some issues on the fork, but I digress). With a bottom loading pad, the pin holds it in place against the rotor, preventing from it falling out.
4 calliper bolts though. Thats going to be one burly brake (potentially)
1 piece callipers are not that hard. Magura forge all of theirs, even their bottom rung MT Sport (which is one of the cheapest hydro brakes out there.
Once the Calliper is shaped they "just: drill a few holes (pistons, fluid channels and ports)cut a slot for the rotor and pads, and its done. Very simple and very efficient.
Its only Hope that make it unnecessarily complicated because they machine everything from the start.
I don't have much to tell you, there's no surprises with this one. From what my contact told me it's more evolution than revolution. It's basically exactly what you'd expect from a XC race bike in 2022. A little lighter, a little more progressive angles, headset-integradted cable routing, etc. The only somewhat surprising thing is, that is apparently utilizes a rear shock technology which was patented and licensed by Orbea.
From Instagram.
Edit: looks like it's a Yep Podio with a silver collar. I suppose the reverb AXS was too heavy.
I'm not a CNC/manufacturing/tooling expert, far from it, but cutting a single piece caliper, by reaching into a deeper hole, possibly requires a longer stem on said cutter, which could influence the cycle times - the longer stem will be more flexible, so tooling loads need to be lower to prevent breakage or tool flexing. It could also influence the tolerances as achieving the same tolerance with a more flexible tool could require more passes required to achieve the same material removal at lower forces. Machining the parts will likely be the cost driver for a part like this as opposed to the material cost itself, so having a shorter manufacturing time makes it cheaper.
The bigger issue is the fluid channels - I don't see an easy way for the through-caliper bleed with the bleeding edge (tm) nipple approach with a single piece caliper, if at all. Using plugs or something similar might make it possible, but there's the question of sealing them and so on. You can see how Magura has the banjo bolt and the bleed bolt drilled into the caliper at an angle - to reach into the cavity under the pistons from either side, probably crossing over the two holes in the middle of the caliper.
Production wise, a single piece caliper brings a lot of challenges and an increase in costs when it comes to manufacturing, some challenges for the assembly and servicing (a special tool or uncommonly large torx bits for the piston cover) with a small weight advantage and likely very minimal, if at all, stiffness gains. I'm not surprised to see so few single piece calipers out there.
- piston seal groove geometry is interesting. They are not square. About a 7deg taper on the outer surface. The top edge usually has a shallow angle chamfer to help control how the seal flexes outward. On a single piece caliper you'd need two different tools to cut the grooves. One for each side. Not the end of the world, but more custom tools. Custom ground stuff is a pain.
- calipers aren't very wide so regardless of whether it's single piece or two pieces the length of tools isn't an issue. Except for the drills...
- drills that are quite long relative to their diameter are used. These are a pain as they like to break. Definitely have to baby these so the fewer cross drilled holes the better.
- lots of calipers out there have holes that are drilled through from the outside and then plugged. Not hard to plug holes or uncommon. But with two piece calipers you never have to plug holes.
- imo the hardest part about machining single piece calipers is that you have to also make a plug for the side of the caliper that you machine the bores from. That means thread mills and even more sealing surfaces. More possible points of failure.
- two piece calipers can be made plenty stiff. Most of the flex in our calipers does not happen at the bolted joint.
- clearance to the spokes can cause banjo fittings to need to be at an angle. Found that out the hard way once.
- one of the biggest limiting factors for two piece calipers is the distance between the post mounts. Between fitting screws, bleed valves, and fluid channels, there isn't much space left for pistons to get much bigger than 18/16 or 17/17.
Very curious to see what all Sram has going on with these new brakes.