MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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Eoin
Posts
370
Joined
3/6/2015
Location
FR
5/31/2022 2:56am
Primoz wrote:
Where is the rest of the bike in the picture? Directly behind the fork, completely inline with it? Granted, for the rear to fly off you'd...
Where is the rest of the bike in the picture? Directly behind the fork, completely inline with it? Granted, for the rear to fly off you'd need to tear off the derailleur cable and rear brake hose too...
The bike is tilted slightly left: you can see his crank between the fork and tyre, and saddle next to the forks. Rear wheel is a bit of a mistery although you can kind of see something behind his shoulder.
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Karabuka
Posts
432
Joined
12/1/2011
Location
SI
5/31/2022 4:21am
gibbon wrote:
Can't be lack of material, on the podcast Dak said it was 42/43lbs!!!
Wow, thats a big chunk for a modern DH bike!
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Primoz
Posts
4554
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
SI
5/31/2022 4:36am
Ah, seeing the video changes things... Far from anything shearing. If it broke, it must have had a tube buckle from a direct impact.

Assumption is the mother of all f ups.
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5/31/2022 6:22am
Seems Pole have discontinued all non-electric bikes. Stamina is removed from their page, and Taival and Evolink are still there. Seems they are there because they are still in stock.
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Eoin
Posts
370
Joined
3/6/2015
Location
FR
5/31/2022 6:46am
baronKanon wrote:
Seems Pole have discontinued all non-electric bikes. Stamina is removed from their page, and Taival and Evolink are still there. Seems they are there because they...
Seems Pole have discontinued all non-electric bikes. Stamina is removed from their page, and Taival and Evolink are still there. Seems they are there because they are still in stock.
Has anyone actually bought one of those 10k monstrosities?
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1
5/31/2022 6:52am
baronKanon wrote:
Seems Pole have discontinued all non-electric bikes. Stamina is removed from their page, and Taival and Evolink are still there. Seems they are there because they...
Seems Pole have discontinued all non-electric bikes. Stamina is removed from their page, and Taival and Evolink are still there. Seems they are there because they are still in stock.
Eoin wrote:
Has anyone actually bought one of those 10k monstrosities?
The Pole Owners group on Facebook has turned into an ebike circle jerk with people humping their Voimas.
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1
5/31/2022 6:55am
baronKanon wrote:
Seems Pole have discontinued all non-electric bikes. Stamina is removed from their page, and Taival and Evolink are still there. Seems they are there because they...
Seems Pole have discontinued all non-electric bikes. Stamina is removed from their page, and Taival and Evolink are still there. Seems they are there because they are still in stock.
Eoin wrote:
Has anyone actually bought one of those 10k monstrosities?
God I hope not
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1
5/31/2022 8:41am
brash wrote:
is it the same deal with Push/EXT? or you just start snap off/add a spacer? I mean for the HBO portion. Or is it set specifically...
is it the same deal with Push/EXT? or you just start snap off/add a spacer? I mean for the HBO portion. Or is it set specifically to a stroke length?

For sure the same for EXT also.
You can't just add or remove spacers on the shaft, you need to change the HBO assembly as well.
mixmastamikal
Posts
85
Joined
9/6/2014
Location
Salt Lake City, UT US
5/31/2022 9:46am Edited Date/Time 5/31/2022 9:50am
brash wrote:
is it the same deal with Push/EXT? or you just start snap off/add a spacer? I mean for the HBO portion. Or is it set specifically...
is it the same deal with Push/EXT? or you just start snap off/add a spacer? I mean for the HBO portion. Or is it set specifically to a stroke length?

For sure the same for EXT also.
You can't just add or remove spacers on the shaft, you need to change the HBO assembly as well.
Changing stroke on EXT shocks is actually very straight forward. It is just one part that changes the HBC piston position to align with the desired stroke and corresponding spacer.
Dave_Camp
Posts
460
Joined
8/25/2009
Location
CO US
5/31/2022 1:54pm
Dave_Camp wrote:
You guys are right- the HBO features on both air and coil make it difficult to change stroke length. The coil especially can get into a...
You guys are right- the HBO features on both air and coil make it difficult to change stroke length.


The coil especially can get into a situation where you have metal-on-metal contact if you took a 57.5 shock and cut the reducers out to make it go to 65 stroke. Basically to have all the shocks get the last 20% of stroke have HBO you need to lengthen internal parts as a 57.5 shock stops 7.5mm further apart than a 65 stroke shock.

If you did the same to the air shock it would have the HBO active for way more than the last 20% of stroke and sag graphics would be off.

Oh wait, really? will parts be available, maybe in a "kit" so its at least possible for a distributor or service centre to change the stroke...
Oh wait, really? will parts be available, maybe in a "kit" so its at least possible for a distributor or service centre to change the stroke if nothing else is available? I'm hardly ever able to jump on and order up a shock in the exact stroke I need, so that would be kind of a problem. Stocking all the SKU's previously was bad enough, but at least you had the back up option of adjusting stroke. I don't imagine many places stocking the 4 different strokes in standard eyelet and trunnion eyelet, bearing mounts and damper tunes for each size shock, because times that by 3 or 4 and you have a huuuuuuge list of SKU's!!

I actually overlooked this because its been such a common thing in the metric era, I never thought it would be an issue. That'll teach me Sad
OK- working on getting you guys sorted.

Should eventually be able to order the travel-changing parts individually:
-HBO 'Posts'- there are 6 or 7 different ones and a 'decoder' that tells you which one goes on what stroke shock
-BLANK shafts with no sag graphics so you can stock less shafts
-Plastic travel reducer discs (2.5, 5, 7.5 thicknesses)


What else do you need?




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5/31/2022 2:03pm
Dave_Camp wrote:
OK- working on getting you guys sorted. Should eventually be able to order the travel-changing parts individually: -HBO 'Posts'- there are 6 or 7 different ones...
OK- working on getting you guys sorted.

Should eventually be able to order the travel-changing parts individually:
-HBO 'Posts'- there are 6 or 7 different ones and a 'decoder' that tells you which one goes on what stroke shock
-BLANK shafts with no sag graphics so you can stock less shafts
-Plastic travel reducer discs (2.5, 5, 7.5 thicknesses)


What else do you need?




That would be a huge improvement on where we are currently!.

The new RS shocks are something I think most places feel they can get behind.

Can you also do shock bodies for the air shocks with no sag markings?. That would improve things massively for both RockShox, distributors and all service centres. 8 shock bodies are needed just to cover the 57.5-65mm stroke shocks currently and most are never in stock at the distributor.
3
Dave_Camp
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Location
CO US
5/31/2022 2:22pm
yeah i asked about that.. going to have aftermarket talk to some service centers and see how much of an issue this is.

The HBO bodies are going to be tough- the HBO needle is pressed in and it's not easy (ie you couldn't do it with a vice and some janky socket setup).

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nskerb
Posts
341
Joined
3/3/2020
Location
Kelso, WA US
5/31/2022 8:00pm
Dave_Camp wrote:
yeah i asked about that.. going to have aftermarket talk to some service centers and see how much of an issue this is. The HBO bodies...
yeah i asked about that.. going to have aftermarket talk to some service centers and see how much of an issue this is.

The HBO bodies are going to be tough- the HBO needle is pressed in and it's not easy (ie you couldn't do it with a vice and some janky socket setup).

I think you're underestimating the ability of some janky buzzed bench wrencher with a vice and a socket set...

Besides that your insight is pretty rad. Glad you chime in to contribute to us plebs spewing nonsense.
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Primoz
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4554
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Location
SI
5/31/2022 9:10pm
Grabbing the needle and pulling it out without damaging anything does seem quite a challenge. Not pressing it on the other hand would likely mean it would move around if the shock was mounted piggyback down.

Threading it in place would probably make it the easiest, but then you have a jolly expensive damper body with some threads all the way down in the hole.
boozed
Posts
659
Joined
6/11/2019
Location
AU
5/31/2022 10:38pm Edited Date/Time 5/31/2022 10:39pm
All this talk about vices... My vice is vises
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Yoda
Posts
133
Joined
9/24/2021
Location
IT
6/1/2022 1:23am
Teasing something which is not an e-bike, on instagram UNNO is...
3
6/1/2022 3:33am
Dave_Camp wrote:
yeah i asked about that.. going to have aftermarket talk to some service centers and see how much of an issue this is. The HBO bodies...
yeah i asked about that.. going to have aftermarket talk to some service centers and see how much of an issue this is.

The HBO bodies are going to be tough- the HBO needle is pressed in and it's not easy (ie you couldn't do it with a vice and some janky socket setup).

How long before we see the flight attendant SD Coil Charlie Murray had at shakedown?
1
TimBud
Posts
533
Joined
2/29/2012
Location
GB
6/1/2022 5:28am
Yoda wrote:
Teasing something which is not an e-bike, on instagram UNNO is...
I was going to post the image for you, but its just another top tube shot with a stupid routed headset
14
Dave_Camp
Posts
460
Joined
8/25/2009
Location
CO US
6/1/2022 7:05am
Dave_Camp wrote:
yeah i asked about that.. going to have aftermarket talk to some service centers and see how much of an issue this is. The HBO bodies...
yeah i asked about that.. going to have aftermarket talk to some service centers and see how much of an issue this is.

The HBO bodies are going to be tough- the HBO needle is pressed in and it's not easy (ie you couldn't do it with a vice and some janky socket setup).

How long before we see the flight attendant SD Coil Charlie Murray had at shakedown?
don't hold your breath
2
krabo83
Posts
719
Joined
12/26/2017
Location
AT
6/1/2022 7:43am
Yoda wrote:
Teasing something which is not an e-bike, on instagram UNNO is...
plus it looks like cable routing through the headset Sad
XC bike maybe?
1
Masjo
Posts
247
Joined
11/25/2014
Location
Ancaster CA
6/1/2022 9:04am
Is there some reason everyone is going through the headset vs just behind or something easier for maintenance but similar aero? With the UCI relaxing the frame shape rule for road and MTBs having longer top tube/head tube junctions, could you not tuck the cables underneath the stem and then have them dive into the frame just behind the headset bearing? Maybe that would look too weird and be slightly less aero, but there's got to be room in these new deeper frames to make it happen. Just look at the white 'Fuel EX' proto from the last page, or the Domane RSL at Roubaix - surely there is now enough space behind the fork/headset that a cable could enter the top tube and make it into the downtube at a gentle enough bend?Oddly enough, Trek did this on the 'current' Domane road frame but then changed to through-the-headset routing on all of its new road frames, including this latest updated Domane.
Maybe there is a problem with how the routing works in such a high stress area, but I don't want my upper headset bearing being so exposed to the elements, and having the lower headset bearing (which I commonly replace annually) require a full brake line removal to deal with. I suppose if you had those fancy new solid polymer 'lifetime' bearings in your headset and/or you bleed your brakes once a year anyways it wouldn't be the biggest hassle.
1
dolface
Posts
1671
Joined
10/26/2015
Location
CA US
6/1/2022 9:24am
dolface wrote:
Trickstuff has pushed their re-opening back to March 1st. It was originally Jan 18, then Jan 23. The modal on their site says it's so they...
Trickstuff has pushed their re-opening back to March 1st. It was originally Jan 18, then Jan 23.

The modal on their site says it's so they can migrate to a new ERP (enterprise resource planning) system and I am not surprised by the date changes; migrations like that are brutally complex (I've led a few) and I was surprised they originally said they'd do in a month.

From the outside it doesn't speak especially well of whoever is managing the project though, and they have my deepest sympathies, this stuff is freakin' hard (and if they're trying to integrate w/ DT Swiss at the same time, just yikes).
Almost 6 months in and the Trickstuff site is still not back up. I know they had a 12-18 month backlog of orders but geez...
5
TEAMROBOT
Posts
1387
Joined
9/2/2009
Location
Los Angeles, CA US
6/1/2022 9:47am Edited Date/Time 6/1/2022 9:53am
The debate over the pros and cons of headset cable routing has been covered pretty thoroughly on this thread, and it also doesn't exactly qualify as a "tech rumor," so I've started a new thread for those looking to discuss the relative merits of headset cable routing: https://www.vitalmtb.com/forums/The-Hub,2/Tell-me-why-headset-cable-rou…

18
6/1/2022 9:57am
dolface wrote:
Almost 6 months in and the Trickstuff site is still not back up. I know they had a 12-18 month backlog of orders but geez...
These are two separate issues. The implementation of the new ERP system (following sale to DT Swiss), and implementing a new web store takes time. They are fulfilling orders in the background. Just hope they will find a way to increase the capacity without sacrificing quality.
pheller
Posts
48
Joined
5/18/2016
Location
US
6/1/2022 10:22am
Still think we'll have no issues buying the longest stroke HBO equipped Super Deluxe Air, then adding stroke spacers to limit the stroke. Yea you might lose the HBO functionality in the process (especially with a 7.5mm reducer) but it'd save some effort on rebuilding the shock.

Lets figure the needle is 25% of a 65mm stroke shock. That's 16.25mm long. With a 7.5mm stroke reduction, you're HBO needle will only make up 9mm or so.

I can't determine what would be any different from a hard bottom on a shock without HBO vs one with HBO, just less of it. You still need a bumper of sort, and the stroke reducer does just that. It's a bumper.
peecee
Posts
425
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5/12/2013
Location
Brisbane AU
6/1/2022 3:39pm
All spotted at Tweed Valley on https://bikerumor.com/ Proto Giant, Blackbox flight attendant and Commencal




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6/1/2022 6:27pm


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