I'm honestly not sure. I haven't tried any of that but the math seems to say the whole O-Chain or dummy gear is pointless past a...
I'm honestly not sure. I haven't tried any of that but the math seems to say the whole O-Chain or dummy gear is pointless past a certain speed based off of hub engagement. I believe I read somewhere that the speed where you feel pedal kickback is fairly low for a standard hub. Like quite a bit slower than a normal downhill pace. I think the O-Chain thing probably passes the parking lot feeling test (very low speeds) and people get sold on it, but then again it has become a pretty common sight on top level DH bikes. So who the hell knows.
Be good if one of the websites tested it properly using data acquisition, there were a couple of articles and comments on pinbike of less pawls having less kickback, they were called out on it and had no explanation, just regurgitating the marketing spiel*
I remember a video or article (Pinkbike article?) recently, where pedal kickback of some bike was evaluated compared to the gear you are in and how fast you would have to go on a drop to see if the pedals kick back or not. The higher the kickback, the faster you have to go.
The point is that if you go fast enough, the hub will spin faster than the chain from the chaingrowth will tug on the freehub and there will be no effects. It also depends on how fast you go through the travel, but that is kind of fixed for a given person (maybe even overall?)
With a lower number of engagement points, there is a higher angle of freehub rotation before it locks in, so that could give you some more leeway too. Could. You could also be practically preloaded with the pawls engaged and even 2 engagement points (180° of free travel) won't help you.
I remember a video or article (Pinkbike article?) recently, where pedal kickback of some bike was evaluated compared to the gear you are in and how...
I remember a video or article (Pinkbike article?) recently, where pedal kickback of some bike was evaluated compared to the gear you are in and how fast you would have to go on a drop to see if the pedals kick back or not. The higher the kickback, the faster you have to go.
The point is that if you go fast enough, the hub will spin faster than the chain from the chaingrowth will tug on the freehub and there will be no effects. It also depends on how fast you go through the travel, but that is kind of fixed for a given person (maybe even overall?)
With a lower number of engagement points, there is a higher angle of freehub rotation before it locks in, so that could give you some more leeway too. Could. You could also be practically preloaded with the pawls engaged and even 2 engagement points (180° of free travel) won't help you.
please don‘t derail this thread again with endless tech theories back and forth
Can’t post the picture from Pinkbike (as I’m a Luddite with no time), but it looks like maybe the Scott team have added weights to their...
Can’t post the picture from Pinkbike (as I’m a Luddite with no time), but it looks like maybe the Scott team have added weights to their Gambler in the hollow crank axles. Or I’m totally off the mark and it’s just stuffed with moto foam
That would be about the only designing scott themselves have done in years, dont they just buy better stuff from anther company(its a joke but its...
That would be about the only designing scott themselves have done in years, dont they just buy better stuff from anther company(its a joke but its also true)
Scott is one of a few brands actually engineering their bikes in house. Most brands draw a picture and send it to Taiwan to be made or an engineering firm in the states to be designed. The fact Scott is able to make some of the lightest bikes on market and not be known as least reliable brand ever is a testament to their engineering team’s skill.
I also don’t think this really matters tbh. Both models have advantages. Brands like Scott, santa, trek are able to constantly build on their previous work. Other brands have more flexibility in their r&d process and outsourcing can bring a level of expertise that few brands can afford full time. I’d be willing to bet most of the big brands that have an in-house engineering team aren’t necessarily investing a higher percentage of profits into r&d but simply have enough revenue that it makes sense to do it themselves rather than pay someone else or leave it up to manufacturer.
Scott is one of a few brands actually engineering their bikes in house. Most brands draw a picture and send it to Taiwan to be made...
Scott is one of a few brands actually engineering their bikes in house. Most brands draw a picture and send it to Taiwan to be made or an engineering firm in the states to be designed. The fact Scott is able to make some of the lightest bikes on market and not be known as least reliable brand ever is a testament to their engineering team’s skill.
I also don’t think this really matters tbh. Both models have advantages. Brands like Scott, santa, trek are able to constantly build on their previous work. Other brands have more flexibility in their r&d process and outsourcing can bring a level of expertise that few brands can afford full time. I’d be willing to bet most of the big brands that have an in-house engineering team aren’t necessarily investing a higher percentage of profits into r&d but simply have enough revenue that it makes sense to do it themselves rather than pay someone else or leave it up to manufacturer.
The amount of resistance the derailleur gives to the suspension is order's of magnitude lower than what the shock does...
Yeah I think that goes without saying. But the resistance provided by a clutched derailleur does affect suspension behavior. Otherwise main pivot locations would not be as highly discussed as they are.
Yeah I think that goes without saying. But the resistance provided by a clutched derailleur does affect suspension behavior. Otherwise main pivot locations would not be...
Yeah I think that goes without saying. But the resistance provided by a clutched derailleur does affect suspension behavior. Otherwise main pivot locations would not be as highly discussed as they are.
I think that is likely more in relation to anti-squat values on non idler designs than related to derailleur clutch resistance. Those pivot points at the chain line above the bottom bracket are usually located there to stop pedal bob
Looks like we've got another look at the new Yeti coming out. 6-bar, high pivot, idler, [optional] motor, and possible gearbox. Mostly just images, but they show some good graphs of anti-squat, anti-rise, and leverage. The big takeaway is the continued push toward separating suspension characteristics.
Yeah I think that goes without saying. But the resistance provided by a clutched derailleur does affect suspension behavior. Otherwise main pivot locations would not be...
Yeah I think that goes without saying. But the resistance provided by a clutched derailleur does affect suspension behavior. Otherwise main pivot locations would not be as highly discussed as they are.
I think that is likely more in relation to anti-squat values on non idler designs than related to derailleur clutch resistance. Those pivot points at the...
I think that is likely more in relation to anti-squat values on non idler designs than related to derailleur clutch resistance. Those pivot points at the chain line above the bottom bracket are usually located there to stop pedal bob
This. And idler location in relation to the pivot has the same effect (except that the geometric antisquat has a higher effect than on standard suspension systems and you can get away with less antisquat from the chain itself).
Can see the fork tracer on the front so maybe this is some new prototype data acquisition system from fox? Like monitoring internal pressure of the damper circuit or something? Cable from rear damper is only going to that box and cable going from button on the bar is probably going to tracer on fork.
Can see the fork tracer on the front so maybe this is some new prototype data acquisition system from fox? Like monitoring internal pressure of the...
Can see the fork tracer on the front so maybe this is some new prototype data acquisition system from fox? Like monitoring internal pressure of the damper circuit or something? Cable from rear damper is only going to that box and cable going from button on the bar is probably going to tracer on fork.
FWIW the translucent box the wire from the shock goes into says "Fox Live Valve" below the power switch and I can't see any wires coming out...
Can see the fork tracer on the front so maybe this is some new prototype data acquisition system from fox? Like monitoring internal pressure of the...
Can see the fork tracer on the front so maybe this is some new prototype data acquisition system from fox? Like monitoring internal pressure of the damper circuit or something? Cable from rear damper is only going to that box and cable going from button on the bar is probably going to tracer on fork.
They have been using it for a while now, Motion instruments DA.
Some more shots, also from the other side. Looks like a normal(-ish) X2 with the dingus part of the bridge 'added' on.
As for built-in telemetry, don't really see it being done through the damper (you won't be able to see positions from it if I'm not mistaken) and I'm not sure I see the use of having telemetry on the bike all the time. Maaaaaybe for the top racers if it's really streamlined (light, unobtrusive, simple to use, etc.). Top level motorsports do run telemetry all the time, but they have the engineers to read all the data.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvqsbHw0lbk
Some more shots, also from the other side. Looks like a normal(-ish) X2 with the dingus part of the bridge 'added' on.
As for built-in...
Some more shots, also from the other side. Looks like a normal(-ish) X2 with the dingus part of the bridge 'added' on.
As for built-in telemetry, don't really see it being done through the damper (you won't be able to see positions from it if I'm not mistaken) and I'm not sure I see the use of having telemetry on the bike all the time. Maaaaaybe for the top racers if it's really streamlined (light, unobtrusive, simple to use, etc.). Top level motorsports do run telemetry all the time, but they have the engineers to read all the data.
The latest dialed which I think is the one you linked to Minnar is looking at his phone and talking to Jordie about how his shock was behaving I believe. Not sure if it's notes or a coy peak at what is going on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvqsbHw0lbk
Some more shots, also from the other side. Looks like a normal(-ish) X2 with the dingus part of the bridge 'added' on.
As for built-in...
Some more shots, also from the other side. Looks like a normal(-ish) X2 with the dingus part of the bridge 'added' on.
As for built-in telemetry, don't really see it being done through the damper (you won't be able to see positions from it if I'm not mistaken) and I'm not sure I see the use of having telemetry on the bike all the time. Maaaaaybe for the top racers if it's really streamlined (light, unobtrusive, simple to use, etc.). Top level motorsports do run telemetry all the time, but they have the engineers to read all the data.
The latest dialed which I think is the one you linked to Minnar is looking at his phone and talking to Jordie about how his shock...
The latest dialed which I think is the one you linked to Minnar is looking at his phone and talking to Jordie about how his shock was behaving I believe. Not sure if it's notes or a coy peak at what is going on.
I think he is looking at the telemetry readings on his phone
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvqsbHw0lbk
Some more shots, also from the other side. Looks like a normal(-ish) X2 with the dingus part of the bridge 'added' on.
As for built-in...
Some more shots, also from the other side. Looks like a normal(-ish) X2 with the dingus part of the bridge 'added' on.
As for built-in telemetry, don't really see it being done through the damper (you won't be able to see positions from it if I'm not mistaken) and I'm not sure I see the use of having telemetry on the bike all the time. Maaaaaybe for the top racers if it's really streamlined (light, unobtrusive, simple to use, etc.). Top level motorsports do run telemetry all the time, but they have the engineers to read all the data.
The latest dialed which I think is the one you linked to Minnar is looking at his phone and talking to Jordie about how his shock...
The latest dialed which I think is the one you linked to Minnar is looking at his phone and talking to Jordie about how his shock was behaving I believe. Not sure if it's notes or a coy peak at what is going on.
nahh, think he just has his settings saved on his phone, i do the same.
Edit: thought it was the settings, but looked at the episode again. It seems they are looking at telemetry-data. But that does not confirm that the live-valve dingus is the telemetry.
They could just be playing a game as well....and it's just a remote electronic lockout on the shock. Just because it says live valve on the box doesn't mean it's live valve in the box
They could just be playing a game as well....and it's just a remote electronic lockout on the shock. Just because it says live valve on the...
They could just be playing a game as well....and it's just a remote electronic lockout on the shock. Just because it says live valve on the box doesn't mean it's live valve in the box
Yes, this is a great course to test a lockout on. Good thinking.
They could just be playing a game as well....and it's just a remote electronic lockout on the shock. Just because it says live valve on the...
They could just be playing a game as well....and it's just a remote electronic lockout on the shock. Just because it says live valve on the box doesn't mean it's live valve in the box
True, but that's a pretty huge box if it's just a power switch, antenna and battery (and yes, proto etc but *I* could make that smaller and I can barely solder).
*https://www.dtswiss.com/en/wheels/wheels-technology/engagement-angle-te…
Its very vague!
The point is that if you go fast enough, the hub will spin faster than the chain from the chaingrowth will tug on the freehub and there will be no effects. It also depends on how fast you go through the travel, but that is kind of fixed for a given person (maybe even overall?)
With a lower number of engagement points, there is a higher angle of freehub rotation before it locks in, so that could give you some more leeway too. Could. You could also be practically preloaded with the pawls engaged and even 2 engagement points (180° of free travel) won't help you.
I also don’t think this really matters tbh. Both models have advantages. Brands like Scott, santa, trek are able to constantly build on their previous work. Other brands have more flexibility in their r&d process and outsourcing can bring a level of expertise that few brands can afford full time. I’d be willing to bet most of the big brands that have an in-house engineering team aren’t necessarily investing a higher percentage of profits into r&d but simply have enough revenue that it makes sense to do it themselves rather than pay someone else or leave it up to manufacturer.
https://wheelbased.com/2021/09/02/6-bar-vehicle-suspension-linkage-with-drive-train-idler-by-yeti/
https://www.vitalmtb.com/photos/features/PIT-BITS-Lenzerheide-World-Cup…
https://youtu.be/5-KAySxK7XM
Some more shots, also from the other side. Looks like a normal(-ish) X2 with the dingus part of the bridge 'added' on.
As for built-in telemetry, don't really see it being done through the damper (you won't be able to see positions from it if I'm not mistaken) and I'm not sure I see the use of having telemetry on the bike all the time. Maaaaaybe for the top racers if it's really streamlined (light, unobtrusive, simple to use, etc.). Top level motorsports do run telemetry all the time, but they have the engineers to read all the data.
https://www.instagram.com/tv/CTXMUtYHd5M/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link
https://www.fitstore24.com/media/images/org/295178-295178-f5f09c9cc7fcd…
https://www.giant-bicycles.com/au/bikes/mountain-bikes/full-suspension