MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

Related:
_Lan
Posts
40
Joined
12/23/2019
Location
AO
8/9/2021 7:47am
Primoz wrote:
Patents are not a problem with dual short links and/or Horst links, if you put the idler on the front triangle. Interestingly the Range and the...
Patents are not a problem with dual short links and/or Horst links, if you put the idler on the front triangle. Interestingly the Range and the Fury seem to have the idler concentric with the main pivot, so considering the idler is not moving, I'd say this makes it 'front triangle mounted', even though it is technically mounted to the chainstay... The new Supreme (proto) does have the idler frame mounted.

I'm drawing a blank for any other non-single pivot, but high pivot bikes at the moment to be able to add more examples. As noted, single pivots (Supreme, Druid, Dreadnought, split pivot bikes) are not a problem, as single pivots are not covered by the patent, as far as I'm aware.
The Kavenz bike is another production high pivot horst link. If you follow their social media you would have came across the incident when they had to redesign their idler location moving it from the chainstay to make it concentric to the main pivot, no doubt because of that i-track patent.

I also received a message from him on my design that was similar to the norco range but with the idler mounted to the chainstay. Warning of litigation if I ever go into production without getting licensing from him. (lol, I'll move the idler to the mainframe then)

As far as I understand the patent, as long as the idler is mounted on a swing arm (single pivot, split pivot) it's ok but any time there's an extra pivot between the axle and main pivot (horst link, dual short links, etc) then you're fucked.

Personally I think it's bullocks, multi link suspension exist, high pivot idlers exist, combining them is nothing novel and is an afterthought of design constraint. This patent just stifles innovation in my opinion
4
Primoz
Posts
4542
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
SI
8/9/2021 7:59am
Thanks for the Kavenz, forgot about it this time, but I did watch the whole YouTube series. The repeated EFBE tests without any analysis why the failures were occuring was quite puzzling Smile

Good point about idler moving to be concentric, didn't think about it at the time (I think I might haven't been up to speed with the I-track patent.

As for what the patent does, it's what patents do in general... That or give you (if it's your novel idea) enough time to gain an advantage on the market.

Also, talking about high pivot bikes... Yours!! Smile
2
8/9/2021 8:37am
Link to that doc plz?
icantride wrote:
https://fccid.io/C9O-RSMB1/Users-Manual/User-Manual-Electronic-Suspension-final-5104323 The FCC embargo elapsed a few weeks ago, can't be too long before this gets released. Unless they wait until April to stay in line...
https://fccid.io/C9O-RSMB1/Users-Manual/User-Manual-Electronic-Suspensi…

The FCC embargo elapsed a few weeks ago, can't be too long before this gets released. Unless they wait until April to stay in line with their usual product releases
Reading more into the manual, and based on the images it looks like the fork damper is using the RCT3 style architecture, where the HSC is factory set, LSC is adjustable, with threshold adjust for a climbing platform. Whether the LSC or the lockout is controlled by the computer isn't clear. Whilst I can see the benefit of a rear shock that can continuously adjust, I can't see the benefits of this fork over a well set up damper with HSC & LSC. Do people still use fork lockouts? Do they use them enough to want to pay £££ for a robot to change it for you?
Primoz
Posts
4542
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
SI
8/9/2021 11:33am Edited Date/Time 8/9/2021 11:35am
If it's RCT3, you could be adjusting the open mode with the computer switching to the platform. Kinda like what happens on the Super Deluxe Ultimate - you have a LSC dial that works in the open mode with a flip switch to lock it out.

As for lockout and the use, Darren was asking exactly that not a long while ago: https://www.vitalmtb.com/forums/The-Hub,2/OTF-Fork-Adjust,11237

For me, your two questions, it's a no and a no. Don't even have one (RC2 damper on the Lyrik), not missing one and I'm also not using the switch on my Super Deluxe as well.
brash
Posts
943
Joined
4/24/2019
Location
AU
8/9/2021 3:22pm
reading that manual, it seems this will drop into any recent RS fork? It connects to the adjuster mechanically?
8/9/2021 5:13pm
RockShox dropping electric suspension like:



35
8/9/2021 10:52pm
brash wrote:
reading that manual, it seems this will drop into any recent RS fork? It connects to the adjuster mechanically?
Seems like an all new compression unit in the Charger 2.1 (or charger 3?). Maybe the rear version can replace an SDLX compression adjusters. So drop in would suggest drop in for entire charger unit.
kuzlich
Posts
34
Joined
11/3/2011
Location
Lisichansk UA
8/10/2021 2:40am
Electronic block for RS shock:






3
8/10/2021 10:29am
SRAM launched a new gravel group today that includes a drivetrain (SRAM), suspension fork and dropper post (RockShox), and wheelset and cockpit (Zipp) under one brand, "Xplr" (sigh).

I know, I know--gravel bikes? On my VitalMTB? There are a couple interesting technical tidbits (a 10-44T XDr cassette, except SRAM made it incompatible with their MTB derailleurs; the dropper post is a new air-only design with a funky suspension post feature*; lighter Zipp Moto rims than were previously offered) but to me the interesting part is the co-branding across all those SRAM-owned companies. Obviously they've been dipping a toe into this with AXS already (drivetrain + Reverb) but I wonder if that approach will transfer over to the mountain bike side. What would be the comparable disemvoweled name for their complete mountain bike package?

*All Reverbs have a built-in suspension post feature after enough miles of riding already, so this isn't really new.
3
Primoz
Posts
4542
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
SI
8/10/2021 10:35am
AXS and C1 reverbs have a vent valve, so so-so on the suspension.

As for disemvoweled name? MTB? Tongue
MTNBK?
sspomer
Posts
6065
Joined
6/26/2009
Location
Boise, ID US
8/10/2021 10:45am
SRAM launched a new gravel group today that includes a drivetrain (SRAM), suspension fork and dropper post (RockShox), and wheelset and cockpit (Zipp) under one brand...
SRAM launched a new gravel group today that includes a drivetrain (SRAM), suspension fork and dropper post (RockShox), and wheelset and cockpit (Zipp) under one brand, "Xplr" (sigh).

I know, I know--gravel bikes? On my VitalMTB? There are a couple interesting technical tidbits (a 10-44T XDr cassette, except SRAM made it incompatible with their MTB derailleurs; the dropper post is a new air-only design with a funky suspension post feature*; lighter Zipp Moto rims than were previously offered) but to me the interesting part is the co-branding across all those SRAM-owned companies. Obviously they've been dipping a toe into this with AXS already (drivetrain + Reverb) but I wonder if that approach will transfer over to the mountain bike side. What would be the comparable disemvoweled name for their complete mountain bike package?

*All Reverbs have a built-in suspension post feature after enough miles of riding already, so this isn't really new.
here's a pic of the xplr gravel group for those grvl-curious and their email PR



We created our new XPLR collection to help you define your own ride style.

Three trusted brands. Three sets of products.

Designed to give road riders, mountain bikers, and gravel grinders unlimited new ways to get after it.

NEW GEARING FOR THE GRAVEL SET

Tailored to the needs of drop bar riders, SRAM’s new 1x-specific wireless drivetrains target a gearing sweet spot. With a 10-44T cassette and matching derailleur, you get big range for gravel climbs and tight jumps for fast riding on road. Choose from three levels—RED, Force, and Rival—that all feature SRAM’s innovative AXS wireless shifting, chain management, and refined hydraulic disc brakes.

ROCKSHOX BRINGS THE PARTY TO GRAVEL WITH A NEW FORK AND DROPPER POST.

The allure of the open gravel road might be paradise for adventurous riders, but it still comes with its own set of tiny speed bumps. With so many gravel riders getting off-road, it was only a matter of time before we found our small-rock rhythm. Suspension adds more comfort to take the edge off. It adds confidence and more control when the terrain gets challenging. And it means riding faster while maximizing your grip on rough roads. Built from the ground up to gravel, the new Rudy features enough travel to keep your ride comfortably in control when curiosity takes you off the beaten path. Matched with the fresh Reverb AXS XPLR, we’ve created a gravel specific design complete with built-in compliance to really open it up on new terrain.

ZIPP SMOOTHES YOUR RIDE WITH A PURPOSE-BUILT GRAVEL WHEELSET.

The 101 XPLR is our first purpose-built wheelset for gravel. Thanks to our MOTO Technology, this wheelset arms gravel cyclists with more control and durability over harsh terrain, providing a smooth ride quality that helps reduce rider fatigue. That means a more comfortable ride. Think of it as a magic carpet ride over primitive roads, especially with large tubeless tires at lower tire pressures. This wheelset is ideal for gravel racing, adventure or any long day in the saddle.

Three brands. Infinite ways to gravel.

The XPLR collection from SRAM, RockShox, and Zipp celebrates a new era of drop bar riding with three product sets to make gravel yours. Every upgrade works great by itself or all together. So pick a path, or mix and match galore. After all, gravel is what you make it.
1
Verbl Kint
Posts
590
Joined
9/13/2013
Location
Quezon City PH
8/10/2021 11:01am
I wonder why GT chose to still call their new Enduro bike "Force". Are they reserving the Sanction name for a longer travel bike?

Or is this a case of someone dropping the ball on keeping the Sanction trademark, in the same way RockShox lost "Totem"?
8/10/2021 11:10am
Verbl Kint wrote:
I wonder why GT chose to still call their new Enduro bike "Force". Are they reserving the Sanction name for a longer travel bike? Or is...
I wonder why GT chose to still call their new Enduro bike "Force". Are they reserving the Sanction name for a longer travel bike?

Or is this a case of someone dropping the ball on keeping the Sanction trademark, in the same way RockShox lost "Totem"?
Their lineup is so strange that i can't even guess
1
1
ctbiker888
Posts
44
Joined
12/19/2009
Location
North Vancouver, BC CA
8/10/2021 11:26am
Verbl Kint wrote:
I wonder why GT chose to still call their new Enduro bike "Force". Are they reserving the Sanction name for a longer travel bike? Or is...
I wonder why GT chose to still call their new Enduro bike "Force". Are they reserving the Sanction name for a longer travel bike?

Or is this a case of someone dropping the ball on keeping the Sanction trademark, in the same way RockShox lost "Totem"?
noeserdalt wrote:
Their lineup is so strange that i can't even guess
How is their line up so strange they have a DH bike, an Enduro bike, and a Trail bike. Fury, Force, Sensor.

I would guess that with the team's recent success aboard the Force it makes more sense to keep that namesake rolling.

But what do i know though.
5
8/10/2021 11:56am
sspomer wrote:
here's a pic of the xplr gravel group for those grvl-curious and their email PR [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2021/08/10/11276/s1200_xplr.jpg[/img] We created our new XPLR collection to help you define...
here's a pic of the xplr gravel group for those grvl-curious and their email PR



We created our new XPLR collection to help you define your own ride style.

Three trusted brands. Three sets of products.

Designed to give road riders, mountain bikers, and gravel grinders unlimited new ways to get after it.

NEW GEARING FOR THE GRAVEL SET

Tailored to the needs of drop bar riders, SRAM’s new 1x-specific wireless drivetrains target a gearing sweet spot. With a 10-44T cassette and matching derailleur, you get big range for gravel climbs and tight jumps for fast riding on road. Choose from three levels—RED, Force, and Rival—that all feature SRAM’s innovative AXS wireless shifting, chain management, and refined hydraulic disc brakes.

ROCKSHOX BRINGS THE PARTY TO GRAVEL WITH A NEW FORK AND DROPPER POST.

The allure of the open gravel road might be paradise for adventurous riders, but it still comes with its own set of tiny speed bumps. With so many gravel riders getting off-road, it was only a matter of time before we found our small-rock rhythm. Suspension adds more comfort to take the edge off. It adds confidence and more control when the terrain gets challenging. And it means riding faster while maximizing your grip on rough roads. Built from the ground up to gravel, the new Rudy features enough travel to keep your ride comfortably in control when curiosity takes you off the beaten path. Matched with the fresh Reverb AXS XPLR, we’ve created a gravel specific design complete with built-in compliance to really open it up on new terrain.

ZIPP SMOOTHES YOUR RIDE WITH A PURPOSE-BUILT GRAVEL WHEELSET.

The 101 XPLR is our first purpose-built wheelset for gravel. Thanks to our MOTO Technology, this wheelset arms gravel cyclists with more control and durability over harsh terrain, providing a smooth ride quality that helps reduce rider fatigue. That means a more comfortable ride. Think of it as a magic carpet ride over primitive roads, especially with large tubeless tires at lower tire pressures. This wheelset is ideal for gravel racing, adventure or any long day in the saddle.

Three brands. Infinite ways to gravel.

The XPLR collection from SRAM, RockShox, and Zipp celebrates a new era of drop bar riding with three product sets to make gravel yours. Every upgrade works great by itself or all together. So pick a path, or mix and match galore. After all, gravel is what you make it.
Hmmm... Not sure about the fork and the post won't fit my Giant Revolt, but the rest has me curious... Wonder how that cassette is not compatible with mechanical drive train? Unless, they are referring to road groups and SRAM doesn't have a mechanical 12 speed road group..
1
8/10/2021 12:12pm
Verbl Kint wrote:
I wonder why GT chose to still call their new Enduro bike "Force". Are they reserving the Sanction name for a longer travel bike? Or is...
I wonder why GT chose to still call their new Enduro bike "Force". Are they reserving the Sanction name for a longer travel bike?

Or is this a case of someone dropping the ball on keeping the Sanction trademark, in the same way RockShox lost "Totem"?
noeserdalt wrote:
Their lineup is so strange that i can't even guess
ctbiker888 wrote:
How is their line up so strange they have a DH bike, an Enduro bike, and a Trail bike. Fury, Force, Sensor. I would guess that...
How is their line up so strange they have a DH bike, an Enduro bike, and a Trail bike. Fury, Force, Sensor.

I would guess that with the team's recent success aboard the Force it makes more sense to keep that namesake rolling.

But what do i know though.
Okey i just checked the new force and it has more travel now, on the old one racers were using 180 forks on the 150 bike and it didn't made sense to me but now it makes sense.
8/10/2021 1:29pm
Hmmm... Not sure about the fork and the post won't fit my Giant Revolt, but the rest has me curious... Wonder how that cassette is not...
Hmmm... Not sure about the fork and the post won't fit my Giant Revolt, but the rest has me curious... Wonder how that cassette is not compatible with mechanical drive train? Unless, they are referring to road groups and SRAM doesn't have a mechanical 12 speed road group..
The 12-speed road cassettes are only compatible with their 12-speed 'flat top' road chains, which are themselves only compatible with their 12-speed AXS road derailleurs, because... reasons. (Different roller sizes and tooth widths. Reasons.) But, uh, "Infinite ways to gravel," right? Just not that way. That's not one of the infinite ways.
9
D(C)
Posts
49
Joined
5/15/2013
Location
CA
8/10/2021 10:32pm
noeserdalt wrote:
I would say they will wait until April for big release. They have updated dampers, air springs and air release buttons on the lowers coming aswell
Any details on what the air spring changes are?
krabo83
Posts
717
Joined
12/26/2017
Location
AT
8/11/2021 3:29am Edited Date/Time 8/11/2021 3:31am
new Santa Cruz V10 incoming or just new colors?
or maybe the new Megatower with a doublecrown fork, but the frame screams V10 IMO.


1
taifi
Posts
27
Joined
8/26/2020
Location
RO
8/11/2021 3:33am
krabo83 wrote:
new Santa Cruz V10 incoming or just new colors? or maybe the new Megatower with a doublecrown fork, but the frame screams V10 IMO. [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2021/08/11/11278/s1200_2A7C0F25_E3F6_448F_B0FC_D387CD7F3ABC.jpg[/img]
new Santa Cruz V10 incoming or just new colors?
or maybe the new Megatower with a doublecrown fork, but the frame screams V10 IMO.


V10
Just new colours
trexyz
Posts
115
Joined
10/18/2016
Location
RO
8/11/2021 3:37am
krabo83 wrote:
new Santa Cruz V10 incoming or just new colors? or maybe the new Megatower with a doublecrown fork, but the frame screams V10 IMO. [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2021/08/11/11278/s1200_2A7C0F25_E3F6_448F_B0FC_D387CD7F3ABC.jpg[/img]
new Santa Cruz V10 incoming or just new colors?
or maybe the new Megatower with a doublecrown fork, but the frame screams V10 IMO.


taifi wrote:
V10
Just new colours
New Megatower. Fingers crossed Smile
8/11/2021 4:19am Edited Date/Time 8/11/2021 4:20am
he has this posted on insta too. At least same pedals and no dropper lever on bars


maybe just messing with us wwith the blur Tongue
2
krabo83
Posts
717
Joined
12/26/2017
Location
AT
8/11/2021 5:48am
he has this posted on insta too. At least same pedals and no dropper lever on bars [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2021/08/11/11279/s1200_Screenshot_2021_08_11_at_14.16.57.jpg[/img] maybe just messing with us wwith the blur...
he has this posted on insta too. At least same pedals and no dropper lever on bars


maybe just messing with us wwith the blur Tongue
yeah, looks like he just wanted to stir the pot Smile
btw, has anyone infos regarding a yeti sb150 successor? my guess is MY 2023 and release next year, but would love to hear some details Smile
8/11/2021 6:31am
Just new colors on the SB150 for 2022.
EugenM
Posts
79
Joined
8/18/2016
Location
TF
8/11/2021 6:52am
Looks like the new GT force will launch today. Video on Youtube premiering at 2PM BST, and the trailer shows various shots of the new bike...
Looks like the new GT force will launch today. Video on Youtube premiering at 2PM BST, and the trailer shows various shots of the new bike

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7C3gf-L4Pts
someone uploaded the wrong pictures for the force 😁😁🙊

6
1
BidouHD
Posts
1
Joined
8/11/2021
Location
FR
8/11/2021 7:16am
Giga-Watt on katie winton last post ?
1
3
8/11/2021 8:07am
EugenM wrote:
someone uploaded the wrong pictures for the force 😁😁🙊 [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2021/08/11/11280/s1200_Collage_20210811_164804.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2021/08/11/11281/s1200_Screenshot_20210811_165213.jpg[/img]
someone uploaded the wrong pictures for the force 😁😁🙊

And GT didn't bothered doing bike shots with the proper specs. The Elite version has been shot with Shim package but will be sold with rubbish ... sorry I mean Sram package.
1
6
Post a reply to: MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

This forum thread has been locked.

The Latest