MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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Velocipedestrian 6/25/2021 8:55pm
6/25/2021 8:55pm
Primoz wrote:
I don't see as big of a reason for it. With these 'smaller' bikes having the option of mounting a bottle inside the frame is a...
I don't see as big of a reason for it. With these 'smaller' bikes having the option of mounting a bottle inside the frame is a must for a lot of riders. A lot of DH riders (park rats and the like) would like to see that option too, but not to the level that want is present on pedalable bikes. Then another factor is longer stroke shocks that are used for DH bikes. They can be mounted vertically, we've seen that lots of times, but still, it's easier to vertically mount a 50 mm stroke shock with a sub 200 mm ETE (trunnion) than it is a 75mm stroke 225(TR)/250 mm ETE shock.

I do remember that supposedly the 27,5" Phoenix required an air shock to add stiffness to the bike, supposedly a coil shock would fail much too quickly on that bike or something along those lines.
TheShortestCharles wrote:
Yep, Pivot's said the linkage on the current Firebird and Phoenix transmits too much side loading for it to work well with coil shocks, since they...
Yep, Pivot's said the linkage on the current Firebird and Phoenix transmits too much side loading for it to work well with coil shocks, since they generally have smaller shaft diameters. The newer layout on the Switchblade, Mach 6, etc. has a pretty similar shape to the leverage curve from what I've seen, but is compatible with both types of shocks and frees up more space for a bottle.
Gross. The shock shouldn't be a structural member. Bring on the spherical bearings instead.
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TheShortestCharles 6/25/2021 10:26pm
6/25/2021 10:26pm
Velocipedestrian wrote:
Gross. The shock shouldn't be a structural member. Bring on the spherical bearings instead.
The only manufacturer I know of that uses shocks with spherical bearings is Geometron, and those Storias sure are expensive. Maybe it's worth reaching out to Pivot for anyone with a Firebird/Phoenix wanting to run a coil to see if they would be compatible? (Assuming you can even get a custom Storia with spherical bearings from EXT)
brash
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brash 6/25/2021 10:52pm
6/25/2021 10:52pm Edited Date/Time 6/25/2021 10:52pm
Velocipedestrian wrote:
Gross. The shock shouldn't be a structural member. Bring on the spherical bearings instead.
TheShortestCharles wrote:
The only manufacturer I know of that uses shocks with spherical bearings is Geometron, and those Storias sure are expensive. Maybe it's worth reaching out to...
The only manufacturer I know of that uses shocks with spherical bearings is Geometron, and those Storias sure are expensive. Maybe it's worth reaching out to Pivot for anyone with a Firebird/Phoenix wanting to run a coil to see if they would be compatible? (Assuming you can even get a custom Storia with spherical bearings from EXT)
Specialized demo used them (rose joints) I had nothing but issues with them popping out of the eyelets (Ohlins TTX22M) I also cracked 3 carbon S-Works frames in 18 months lol. It was nearly comical.
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Velocipedestrian 6/25/2021 11:16pm
6/25/2021 11:16pm
Velocipedestrian wrote:
Gross. The shock shouldn't be a structural member. Bring on the spherical bearings instead.
TheShortestCharles wrote:
The only manufacturer I know of that uses shocks with spherical bearings is Geometron, and those Storias sure are expensive. Maybe it's worth reaching out to...
The only manufacturer I know of that uses shocks with spherical bearings is Geometron, and those Storias sure are expensive. Maybe it's worth reaching out to Pivot for anyone with a Firebird/Phoenix wanting to run a coil to see if they would be compatible? (Assuming you can even get a custom Storia with spherical bearings from EXT)
It's really the opposite idea to what Primoz mentioned -
"supposedly the 27,5" Phoenix required an air shock to add stiffness to the bike".
With a properly designed frame, only the direct load would apply to the shock. Any bending or twisting should be taken care of by the frame & links.
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Primoz
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Primoz 6/26/2021 1:54am
6/26/2021 1:54am
Commenting on the shaft diameters of coil shocks, air shocks have the same shaft diameter - the damper shaft. It's just that there's the aircan mounted over the damper body, adding stiffness.

As for spherical joints, one way is to do it like Pole does - mount the shock sideways. A yoke is used to drive the shock off the top link (just like with a lot of bikes), but the top mount also rotates the eyelet. Norco uses a similar mount ont heir electric Sight with a trunnion mount shock and adapting that inside the rocker link for the top eyelet would be really easy too.

But yeah, counting on the shock to add stiffness or loading it up is a recipe for disaster. Apparently the stiff custom mounted yoke of older Enduros and Stumpjumpers wreaked havoc with damper bodies and scratched them up in like half a year. Because side loading.
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Fahzure
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Fahzure 6/26/2021 2:43am
6/26/2021 2:43am
Re: Primoz and the notion that one kind of shock or another adds (lateral) stiffness to the frame. Unless you are riding an older ('92-'95) AMP, Titus, Mongoose or other McPhearson strut frame, the shock is not a significant element in the stiffness equation. What sphreicals do, is allow the shock to float through its compression cycle because the beginning (extended) point of the cycle is likely to be very slightly out of plane with end (compressed) point. This causes the bushings in the shock to side load and bind, creating a less supple shock stroke, especially noticeable at the beginning or end of stroke. Aluminum frames (like the G1), which often distort slightly in the welding process, and whackadoodle single attachment (as opposed to clevis) frames (like the Pole) benefit most from sphericals. For fantastic plastic frames, properly designed and constructed, this should not be a significant issue, but you will have to worry about all their other crappy "attributes."
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Primoz
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Primoz 6/26/2021 8:09am
6/26/2021 8:09am
Adding stiffness was probably the wrong word there, but the factory team only ran air shock on 27" bikes, so something was there.

As for what spherical bushings do, I am aware, for what it's worth. Same goes for distortions and the rest. Smile
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noeserdalt 6/26/2021 2:36pm
6/26/2021 2:36pm

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Primoz
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Primoz 6/26/2021 3:15pm
6/26/2021 3:15pm
I think this was in one of the vital pits bits as well.
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brash
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brash 6/26/2021 5:36pm
6/26/2021 5:36pm
Goodness me that looks cool! Presuming a new big ol Dorado under the veil of secrecy.
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TheShortestCharles 6/26/2021 10:43pm
6/26/2021 10:43pm
sspomer wrote:
and they're still removing some details via photoshop like we did. has this cnc'd gamux gearbox prototype made the round? also, what's under the towel? a...
and they're still removing some details via photoshop like we did. has this cnc'd gamux gearbox prototype made the round? also, what's under the towel?

a bunch of pics of it here
https://www.vitalmtb.com/photos/features/Prototype-Gamux-DH-Bike,13416/…


Judging by the Manitou shock I'd say there's a solid chance that's the new Dorado
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noeserdalt 6/26/2021 11:09pm
6/26/2021 11:09pm
That's a piece of art
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Martin_Prophet 6/26/2021 11:25pm
6/26/2021 11:25pm
You build an awesome frame...and than you put a Suntour shock in it 🤣🤣🤣
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Fantaman
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Fantaman 6/27/2021 12:31am
6/27/2021 12:31am
Martin_Prophet wrote:
You build an awesome frame...and than you put a Suntour shock in it 🤣🤣🤣
Haha but that is Manitou shock
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Martin_Prophet 6/27/2021 12:34am
6/27/2021 12:34am
Ah sorry, i forget the Team is now on Manitou. Maybe in the front is the new Dorado
hitar_potar 6/27/2021 12:43am
6/27/2021 12:43am
Hayes’ website says the big reveal of the Dorado is scheduled for 12.07.2021 - there’s even a countdown. I wonder what they can possibly do to make it a new iteration: may be some crazy new internals? Cause the externals do look like the current one…
metadave
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metadave 6/27/2021 1:02am
6/27/2021 1:02am Edited Date/Time 6/27/2021 1:03am
Manitou is actually re-releasing the Travis with the new STY damper design. This time they're taking it all the way with the Travis-STY.......
2
slimshady
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slimshady 6/27/2021 4:52am
6/27/2021 4:52am
Martin_Prophet wrote:
You build an awesome frame...and than you put a Suntour shock in it 🤣🤣🤣
That's the Manitou Mara.
Masjo
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Masjo 6/27/2021 6:30am
6/27/2021 6:30am Edited Date/Time 6/27/2021 6:41am


Huh
Image run through 'FotoForensics' after it being mentioned that it is edited. Sorry, I don't have photoshop for their AI image manipulation detector, which would be much better. Whiter areas (relative to similar colours/textures found elsewhere) denote probable manipulation, either through editing or resaving (though resaving affects the whole image). That blue line also could represent something, though I'm not sure.

Masjo
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Masjo 6/27/2021 6:43am
6/27/2021 6:43am
I also ran through some other photos and there is not line coming off of the fork but the compression dial seems pretty bright. There may also be something going on with the Blackbox air shock if this site works as advertised
sspomer
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sspomer 6/27/2021 6:46am
6/27/2021 6:46am
Masjo wrote:
I also ran through some other photos and there is not line coming off of the fork but the compression dial seems pretty bright. There may...
I also ran through some other photos and there is not line coming off of the fork but the compression dial seems pretty bright. There may also be something going on with the Blackbox air shock if this site works as advertised
you're over-thinking it, but the effort is applauded HAHA
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metadave
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metadave 6/27/2021 7:35am
6/27/2021 7:35am
We're going full VSI. Vital Scene Investigation
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Sonofbovril2 6/27/2021 7:40am
6/27/2021 7:40am Edited Date/Time 6/27/2021 7:48am
There is a word removed here:

Probably says charger 3 or something like that…

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Fantaman
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Fantaman 6/27/2021 1:43pm
6/27/2021 1:43pm
Who else thinks Manitou needs to make a new coil shock?
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bermslapper69 6/27/2021 1:53pm
6/27/2021 1:53pm
Idk if this has been posted previously but looks like there’s a nukeproof mega-style Ebike in the works
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TheSuspensionLabNZ 6/27/2021 7:08pm
6/27/2021 7:08pm
Sonofbovril2 wrote:
There is a word removed here: [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2021/06/27/11063/s1200_633CD33C_BB0B_4C6B_A252_4C1740053CAD.jpg[/img] Probably says charger 3 or something like that…
There is a word removed here:

Probably says charger 3 or something like that…

This gives me some great ideas, if I was releasing that photo I would definitely hide something like "you're over-thinking it, but the effort is applauded HAHA"
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Poleczechy 6/28/2021 11:46am
6/28/2021 11:46am
Sonofbovril2 wrote:
There is a word removed here: [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2021/06/27/11063/s1200_633CD33C_BB0B_4C6B_A252_4C1740053CAD.jpg[/img] Probably says charger 3 or something like that…
There is a word removed here:

Probably says charger 3 or something like that…

Charger 2.69
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hamncheez2003 6/28/2021 1:35pm
6/28/2021 1:35pm
Primoz wrote:
My Giant Reign was just over 14 kg (in aluminium) and didn't require any warrantying, soooo... Well, Specialized handling their carbon, what about the shitstorm that...
My Giant Reign was just over 14 kg (in aluminium) and didn't require any warrantying, soooo...

Well, Specialized handling their carbon, what about the shitstorm that is the current Enduro?

Not sure about Scott (I think they do quite a bit of composite work in Switzerland too), Trek does certain frames in the US, there's Unno (which is properly anal composite engineering, Cesar did say he'd never do it again if he knew how hard it would be), Santa Cruz has a strong composite lab in the US AND owns the asian factory where their frames are manufactured, etc.

Maybe another wrench in the spokes of carbon bikes, I was told (a friend of a friend kind thing, where the guy works as an aerospace composite engineer with one of the big ones for commercial airplanes) that the carbon used for consumer and automotive stuff is anything but top grade. As in he'd never ride anything 5+ years old, be it a mountain bike, a road bike, carbon rims or an old racecar. I was told the resins used in these kinds of products aren't as good (expensive, of course) as they are in aerospace products and that inserts corroding is also a big issue. These comments came off a facebook video of a guy riding over a bump with his old road bike and the (carbon) wheel basically exploding. And the insert part was directed at for example engine mount inserts in the monocoques of old F1 cars, that are still ran in anger (Ferrari even has a Corse Clienti program where, with enough money, you can buy and run an ex-Schumacher car in their events, setup around the world).

Yeah, I know, Aluminium is not forever, as it doesn't have a fatigue limit (same goes for composites though...), so for a forever kind of bike, go Ti or steel.

Is this offtopic?
Funny you should mention ti, I'm starting a titanium bike company. Already have my first order put in with the factory.

https://www.instagram.com/westward_ho_bikes
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anotherbikerguy 6/28/2021 2:11pm
6/28/2021 2:11pm
Sonofbovril2 wrote:
There is a word removed here: [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2021/06/27/11063/s1200_633CD33C_BB0B_4C6B_A252_4C1740053CAD.jpg[/img] Probably says charger 3 or something like that…
There is a word removed here:

Probably says charger 3 or something like that…

Poleczechy wrote:
Charger 2.69
Chargest.
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