MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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2/20/2021 1:23pm Edited Date/Time 2/20/2021 1:30pm
AndehM wrote:
Definitely not Spec - no SWAT box, and using Maxxis tires. Who else besides Forbidden have the funky oval seat tube with the clamp at the...
Definitely not Spec - no SWAT box, and using Maxxis tires.
Who else besides Forbidden have the funky oval seat tube with the clamp at the front? Are the house brand grips/saddle/stem recognizable?
It is a specialized I tell you... cable entry’s for internal cables are definitely specialized, chainstay protector straight off the demo, ohlins suspension , sram drivetrain as seen on specialized factory dh , saddle specialized, linkage specialized similar to enduro/demo. Shall I go on? you know it is possible there isn’t a swat box because there is a battery in its place though I see no switches or anything so I doubt that’s the case


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2/20/2021 1:50pm
AndehM wrote:
Definitely not Spec - no SWAT box, and using Maxxis tires. Who else besides Forbidden have the funky oval seat tube with the clamp at the...
Definitely not Spec - no SWAT box, and using Maxxis tires.
Who else besides Forbidden have the funky oval seat tube with the clamp at the front? Are the house brand grips/saddle/stem recognizable?
It is a specialized I tell you... cable entry’s for internal cables are definitely specialized, chainstay protector straight off the demo, ohlins suspension , sram drivetrain...
It is a specialized I tell you... cable entry’s for internal cables are definitely specialized, chainstay protector straight off the demo, ohlins suspension , sram drivetrain as seen on specialized factory dh , saddle specialized, linkage specialized similar to enduro/demo. Shall I go on? you know it is possible there isn’t a swat box because there is a battery in its place though I see no switches or anything so I doubt that’s the case


In my opinion, It’s highly unlikely that Spec would move to a dual link suspension design after so recently launching the new demo/enduro design. The enduro isn’t yet due for an upgrade either, although there have been rumors of a battery powered version there of...
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Primoz
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2/20/2021 1:52pm Edited Date/Time 2/20/2021 2:03pm
It's not electric, it's a DUB crankset.

Also, still, it's not an FSR or a single pivot, the way the front link (hugging the shock) is positioned, it has to be a dual short link. Maaaaaaaaaybe a flex single pivot, but it's a bit of a chonky boy in the rear for that I think... And the vertical strut also does appear to be a one piece with the seat stays. While it could be similar to the scissor arrangement of the Demo/Enduro, it would need a pivot. With it being solid it's, of course, the third side of the (rear) triangle.

That's what I see in the pictures, but I was saying the high pivot carbon Norco proto is also a single pivot with a flexy rear swingarm (upside down Stumpjumper situation) until we saw some more pivots Smile

@Sonofbovril2, as for Enduro's new design, supposedly there are a lot of problems with the current design, so a new one might make sense :D
AndehM
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2/20/2021 2:10pm
AndehM wrote:
Definitely not Spec - no SWAT box, and using Maxxis tires. Who else besides Forbidden have the funky oval seat tube with the clamp at the...
Definitely not Spec - no SWAT box, and using Maxxis tires.
Who else besides Forbidden have the funky oval seat tube with the clamp at the front? Are the house brand grips/saddle/stem recognizable?
It is a specialized I tell you... cable entry’s for internal cables are definitely specialized, chainstay protector straight off the demo, ohlins suspension , sram drivetrain...
It is a specialized I tell you... cable entry’s for internal cables are definitely specialized, chainstay protector straight off the demo, ohlins suspension , sram drivetrain as seen on specialized factory dh , saddle specialized, linkage specialized similar to enduro/demo. Shall I go on? you know it is possible there isn’t a swat box because there is a battery in its place though I see no switches or anything so I doubt that’s the case


You know, I think you're right - new Kinevo. There was a Spec patent posted here a couple months ago showing a revised linkage design specifically to accommodate a motor & internal battery. Plus, Spec's battery division is in Switzerland.
krabo83
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2/20/2021 2:25pm
frame looks like a normal sb150, but a bit more stretched out and slacker, maybe just the angle

Trocko
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2/20/2021 3:04pm
krabo83 wrote:
frame looks like a normal sb150, but a bit more stretched out and slacker, maybe just the angle [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2021/02/20/10524/s1200_7422F7EF_24E5_4CB2_B864_2376E54C4D15.jpg[/img]
frame looks like a normal sb150, but a bit more stretched out and slacker, maybe just the angle

Probably just the angle and could be Richie messing with 180mm fork. or maybe a sb150 lunch ride?
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2/20/2021 6:00pm
That’s not a specialized. Yes it does have a specialized saddle but lot of people (Sam hill specifically) run/ ran specialized saddles because of their designs. Sam Hill just recently stopped using the specialized power because nukeproof came out with a saddle exactly like it. The privateer behind the mystery bike has a henge saddle on it. It looks to be a carbon privateer with a revised linkage. Yes the head tube looks like a specialized, but the wheels, tires, bars and stem are all different brands.
2/20/2021 7:40pm
AndehM wrote:
Definitely not Spec - no SWAT box, and using Maxxis tires. Who else besides Forbidden have the funky oval seat tube with the clamp at the...
Definitely not Spec - no SWAT box, and using Maxxis tires.
Who else besides Forbidden have the funky oval seat tube with the clamp at the front? Are the house brand grips/saddle/stem recognizable?
Specialized has nothing to do with Ohlins nowadays. Unless it's a team bike for Loic or Finn, or some other wild one-off. Theres no correlation.

Ohlins does, however now factory spec Intense (as well as Mondraker and commencal). I could see this being the new tracer. Low shock (as seen under Isabeau and Palmer). Short, dual link (looks Dw-ish) and Intense doesnt HAVE to use VPP anymore now that they're not paying to license it so they could theoretically use something closer to DW than VPP. Also, without closer views it's really hard to see exactly what the platform is. Also, Intense uses that wild, contoured thick seat tube on the current tracer and carbine.
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2/20/2021 8:20pm
I agree. Definitely could be the new Tracer.
Primoz
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2/21/2021 12:34am
As for Intense and VPP, if they are not paying for the licence, it's not they don't HAVE to use it, they actually CAN'T. Though their 'VPP' has lately been tuned by CERO. And CERO has some knowledge about co-rotating link suspensions, cue Mondraker and Unno.

And yes, this does in fact look very much like it has dual co-rotating links (unlike VPP). As for 'closer to DW', DW and VPP are completely different in the sense that upper links rotate in different ways, which means the IC travels in different direction when going through rear wheel travel, giving different characteristics. In that regard Specialized's FSR is closer to DW than VPP is and Transition's TR11 is closer to VPP than it is to the rest of their lineup.

AS for the privateer, the seat tube brace on the top tube looks completely standard, the color and the logos are also standard for the black 161, so I don't really see a reason for it to be carbon. I'm guessing they would smooth out the shapes quite a lot if they went carbon. Plus I'm not sure carbon is in their ethos?
2/21/2021 1:33am
Primoz wrote:
As for Intense and VPP, if they are not paying for the licence, it's not they don't HAVE to use it, they actually CAN'T. Though their...
As for Intense and VPP, if they are not paying for the licence, it's not they don't HAVE to use it, they actually CAN'T. Though their 'VPP' has lately been tuned by CERO. And CERO has some knowledge about co-rotating link suspensions, cue Mondraker and Unno.

And yes, this does in fact look very much like it has dual co-rotating links (unlike VPP). As for 'closer to DW', DW and VPP are completely different in the sense that upper links rotate in different ways, which means the IC travels in different direction when going through rear wheel travel, giving different characteristics. In that regard Specialized's FSR is closer to DW than VPP is and Transition's TR11 is closer to VPP than it is to the rest of their lineup.

AS for the privateer, the seat tube brace on the top tube looks completely standard, the color and the logos are also standard for the black 161, so I don't really see a reason for it to be carbon. I'm guessing they would smooth out the shapes quite a lot if they went carbon. Plus I'm not sure carbon is in their ethos?
The VPP patent expired... There is no VPP branding on the later Intense bikes because they do not need to license the technology Wink
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Primoz
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2/21/2021 1:38am
Ah, so that's the catch. But in either case, CERO has been doing optimisations on it, while the layout used to be VERY similar to Santa Cruz bikes (calculated by SC as well?) it appears to be a bit different now, kind of like getting away from the SC products to have their own characteristics.
1
2/21/2021 3:11am
Isn't it some kind of mix between CBF (canfield balance formula) with one short link pointing at the base of the long link where all the IC/antisquat thing happens, and the Banshee Legend where the shock is mounted on the short link that pivots forward ?
LLLLL
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2/21/2021 3:24am
AndehM wrote:
Definitely not Spec - no SWAT box, and using Maxxis tires. Who else besides Forbidden have the funky oval seat tube with the clamp at the...
Definitely not Spec - no SWAT box, and using Maxxis tires.
Who else besides Forbidden have the funky oval seat tube with the clamp at the front? Are the house brand grips/saddle/stem recognizable?
Yup forbidden seat mast. Guess the high pivot isn’t all it’s cracked up to be.
5
LLLLL
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2/21/2021 3:48am
Primoz wrote:
Yeah, this is the totally weird part to me too, the DD casing sounds like it's perfect for rear duties, but only comes in 3C compounds...
Yeah, this is the totally weird part to me too, the DD casing sounds like it's perfect for rear duties, but only comes in 3C compounds (bar the Aggressor, as you said). Opportunity lost? Though I haven't been as impressed with the DD durability as I would have thought I would be before trying one out...

As for cold performance, yeah, of course everything will get hard (unless you use health questionable compounds in the top echelons of motorsport that have since been banned, but I digress, also, cue Chris Harris), I'd just like it not to crumble away in a few weeks when it was perfectly fine before the cold :/

Again, it's not about how well it works, it's about it not disintegrating. In the mean time a DC rear tyre was perfectly fine in the rear, so it is a 3C specific problem or at least appears so.

As for treads, yeah, HR seems to be an issue here, but speaking about the Minions, I tore up a 3C DHF in the FRONT in just a bit longer than it took me to destroy a 3C HR2 in the rear. The cut blocks on the sides tore up. Sure it gives great progression but it also gives 'great' (as in large) tyre wear Smile
Always interesting to see mr Tuthill turning up somewhere, be it racing a beetle in the RAC rally, ice driving or singers latest rally porker Smile
Primoz
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2/21/2021 4:34am
Or in a post by a serial offtopicer on a MTB forum :D

Regarding forbidden, the design language (the shock tunnel too) fits quite well. Maybe just another model without an idler and high pivot for people that don't want an idler?

Will_Narayan which link the shock mounts to makes no difference to the antisquat and axle path characteristics. It does have an effect on the leverage ratio curve through the stroke. As for CBF, the gist of it is that the rear axle - IC paths through the travel all cross over at the top of the chainring. Though I'm not sure what that achieves as the chain wraps around the chainring differently depending on the gear you're in on the cassette, where you are in the travel, chainring size influences things, etc. They tout that they are sag independent, but if the base idea is for the chain to always go through that ideal crossover point or something, well... It doesn't for the above touted reasons. But I haven't thought about these points too much yet, it might be something that's worth looking into.
hairyyy
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2/21/2021 9:47am
dolface wrote:
I9 working on a freecoaster (or maybe a Sprag clutch) or just Loose messing about? View this post on Instagram A post shared by Joshua Lewis...
I9 working on a freecoaster (or maybe a Sprag clutch) or just Loose messing about?

The clue is in the post, noisy or not, I've no idea how you figured free coaster seeing as free coasters allow the wheel to coast backwards freely.
1
2/21/2021 9:55am
hairyyy wrote:
The clue is in the post, noisy or not, I've no idea how you figured free coaster seeing as free coasters allow the wheel to coast...
The clue is in the post, noisy or not, I've no idea how you figured free coaster seeing as free coasters allow the wheel to coast backwards freely.
It is no secret that i9 have a proto free coaster hub for the “jibbers” such as Loosedog. So seen that the only hub from i9 on the market is the hydra the deduction that this is a free coaster should be correct.
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metadave
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2/21/2021 10:03am
Maybe it's the we are one frame....
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1
2/21/2021 10:26am
In my opinion, It’s highly unlikely that Spec would move to a dual link suspension design after so recently launching the new demo/enduro design. The enduro...
In my opinion, It’s highly unlikely that Spec would move to a dual link suspension design after so recently launching the new demo/enduro design. The enduro isn’t yet due for an upgrade either, although there have been rumors of a battery powered version there of...
From an industrial design point of view the current enduro is a dog's dinner. Current Demo isn't very ambitious either, especially following the radical single sided 2016 demo. I wouldn't be shocked if both these models are just steady eddie placeholders while Spec works on a major overhaul of the design language and suspension layout.
2
Primoz
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2/21/2021 10:35am
Radical doesn't always mean better. Plus I'd hazard a guess the previous Demo was 'radically onesided' to make manufacturing of it easier while routing the shock past the seat tube.
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2/21/2021 11:58am
Don't get me wrong, I think that in the world of mountain bikes "radical" very rarely leads to mass market success. Look at the recent offerings from polygon, trust forks etc that are doomed to market failure regardless of their performance. There's a sweet spot that needs to be hit - more progressive than radical and I think in that sense the single sided demo did a good job.

I'm sure the current enduro/demo models ride well but they do lack spice in the industrial design and marketing departments. As much as we all try to pretend it doesn't matter to us how our bikes look I'd be willing to bet that the sales figures tell a different story.
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2/22/2021 9:59am
Found this on insta, spy shots of a unknown frame, photos taken at Magglingen in Biel Switzerland [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2021/02/20/10522/s1200_IMG_E1195.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2021/02/20/10523/s1200_IMG_E1196.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2021/02/20/10521/s1200_IMG_E1197.jpg[/img]
Found this on insta, spy shots of a unknown frame, photos taken at Magglingen in Biel Switzerland



The light-red-bike website is reporting that this is the new BMC enduro(ish) bike
1
2/22/2021 10:00am
Found this on insta, spy shots of a unknown frame, photos taken at Magglingen in Biel Switzerland [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2021/02/20/10522/s1200_IMG_E1195.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2021/02/20/10523/s1200_IMG_E1196.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2021/02/20/10521/s1200_IMG_E1197.jpg[/img]
Found this on insta, spy shots of a unknown frame, photos taken at Magglingen in Biel Switzerland



other website put up an article speculating that this thing is a BMC, seems super unlikely to me as BMC has mostly given up on everything bigger than XC bikes.
Noeserd
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2/22/2021 11:41am
but headtube style fits the brand
shreda
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2/22/2021 1:40pm
New brand under the wings of BMC.
brash
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2/22/2021 11:40pm
brash wrote:
Revamped Pivot trail bike this week I believe.
New 429 trail just dropped. Wink
2/23/2021 5:37am
Noeserd wrote:
but headtube style fits the brand
Cable port is different, but location is very similar, low down on the downtube. This four-stroke is a very similar color FWIW (but everyone is coming out with this color)
bizutch
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2/23/2021 8:04am
hairyyy wrote:
The clue is in the post, noisy or not, I've no idea how you figured free coaster seeing as free coasters allow the wheel to coast...
The clue is in the post, noisy or not, I've no idea how you figured free coaster seeing as free coasters allow the wheel to coast backwards freely.
It is no secret that i9 have a proto free coaster hub for the “jibbers” such as Loosedog. So seen that the only hub from i9...
It is no secret that i9 have a proto free coaster hub for the “jibbers” such as Loosedog. So seen that the only hub from i9 on the market is the hydra the deduction that this is a free coaster should be correct.
You can put thicker grease in the Hydra and it will get quiet. Maybe not that quiet...quiet(er).
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