Amidst the power wars, the last thing we need is a new ebike that looks like a moto. Luckily they used the Shimano motor so all the hikers should have zero problem with this on the trails!
I've heard this from a guy with Specialized contacts. No details, just that it's not just another rebrand of the Levo 4.
That's a big 180 I think? As a consumer on the outside I had the impression that Spesh intended to use the molds for the Levo 4 for like 5 years and just release the same front triangle with different links/chainstays for different travel brackets. Huge price tags and low SKUs and print money.
It's really odd to me that many brands seem to have been tipped off early about Amflow releasing a $5k bike and came out with their own $5k eebs to match them, and Spesh seems to have had no idea it was coming. puts on tinfoil hat
That's a big 180 I think? As a consumer on the outside I had the impression that Spesh intended to use the molds for the Levo...
That's a big 180 I think? As a consumer on the outside I had the impression that Spesh intended to use the molds for the Levo 4 for like 5 years and just release the same front triangle with different links/chainstays for different travel brackets. Huge price tags and low SKUs and print money.
It's really odd to me that many brands seem to have been tipped off early about Amflow releasing a $5k bike and came out with their own $5k eebs to match them, and Spesh seems to have had no idea it was coming. puts on tinfoil hat
The levo downtube could swallow an amflow, it’s not just a price matching issue.
That's a big 180 I think? As a consumer on the outside I had the impression that Spesh intended to use the molds for the Levo...
That's a big 180 I think? As a consumer on the outside I had the impression that Spesh intended to use the molds for the Levo 4 for like 5 years and just release the same front triangle with different links/chainstays for different travel brackets. Huge price tags and low SKUs and print money.
It's really odd to me that many brands seem to have been tipped off early about Amflow releasing a $5k bike and came out with their own $5k eebs to match them, and Spesh seems to have had no idea it was coming. puts on tinfoil hat
If I had to speculate, Big S is a large ship to turn, and they were already a few years into Levo 4 development/production when the Avinox wave started to break. They probably would have liked to react sooner, but they had a massive glut of L4 inventory that they needed to unload first. We've seen them frantically coming up with different build kits (the R model & Evo) using the same base frame/motor to try and clear out some of that stock. But if they hold fast to the flop of the L4 design too long, they will cease being relevant, especially since there are so many Avinox powered bikes from other brands that are both lighter and more powerful. So while they'd probably liked to have milked the L4 design a couple more years (similar to how long the L3 was out), Avinox is forcing their hand to iterate faster.
Maybe special ed dont want to get caught with their pants down again and are releasing new frame to fit an mgu. Supposedly everyone has been developing one, including the motor systems we havent seen with proto mgu's
Please some company release a modern 170mm travel, light weight (under 50lb) enduro (or DH) with race geo, small down tube good looking e bike. I don’t need much more than 60 ish NM or a battery bigger than 500wh. I’d love a removable battery with multiple options from small to big ish. But it has to accept a range extender. Transition relay PNW replacement please! I have money!
Not interested in 1500nm and heavy 800wh battery stuff. I’m still a real mtber at heart, but I need help pedaling a dual spring, DH wheels and tires, big brake etc heavy DH stuff to the top of the run at least a few times. I just don’t need the bikes motor to do it all for me. Also no noise! I have a moto bike
Please some company release a modern 170mm travel, light weight (under 50lb) enduro (or DH) with race geo, small down tube good looking e bike. I...
Please some company release a modern 170mm travel, light weight (under 50lb) enduro (or DH) with race geo, small down tube good looking e bike. I don’t need much more than 60 ish NM or a battery bigger than 500wh. I’d love a removable battery with multiple options from small to big ish. But it has to accept a range extender. Transition relay PNW replacement please! I have money!
Not interested in 1500nm and heavy 800wh battery stuff. I’m still a real mtber at heart, but I need help pedaling a dual spring, DH wheels and tires, big brake etc heavy DH stuff to the top of the run at least a few times. I just don’t need the bikes motor to do it all for me. Also no noise! I have a moto bike
orbea wild rise LT has 170mm front/rear, 48 pounds AND avinox motor. just run it in eco if you don't want the help?
Please some company release a modern 170mm travel, light weight (under 50lb) enduro (or DH) with race geo, small down tube good looking e bike. I...
Please some company release a modern 170mm travel, light weight (under 50lb) enduro (or DH) with race geo, small down tube good looking e bike. I don’t need much more than 60 ish NM or a battery bigger than 500wh. I’d love a removable battery with multiple options from small to big ish. But it has to accept a range extender. Transition relay PNW replacement please! I have money!
Not interested in 1500nm and heavy 800wh battery stuff. I’m still a real mtber at heart, but I need help pedaling a dual spring, DH wheels and tires, big brake etc heavy DH stuff to the top of the run at least a few times. I just don’t need the bikes motor to do it all for me. Also no noise! I have a moto bike
Hold out a few months for the new TQ 120 bikes.
Trek has their updated Fuel+ platform (that has been extensively leaked) being revealed in January. You'll be able to run that at 160/170.
I'm sure Yeti, Norco and Propain won't be far behind.
The 120Nm will eat the battery quickly, but just de-tune it down close to the current TQ levels and use the full power as a bailout.
If more companies gain access to the Avinox 700Wh battery, that should help get closer too…
Please some company release a modern 170mm travel, light weight (under 50lb) enduro (or DH) with race geo, small down tube good looking e bike. I...
Please some company release a modern 170mm travel, light weight (under 50lb) enduro (or DH) with race geo, small down tube good looking e bike. I don’t need much more than 60 ish NM or a battery bigger than 500wh. I’d love a removable battery with multiple options from small to big ish. But it has to accept a range extender. Transition relay PNW replacement please! I have money!
Not interested in 1500nm and heavy 800wh battery stuff. I’m still a real mtber at heart, but I need help pedaling a dual spring, DH wheels and tires, big brake etc heavy DH stuff to the top of the run at least a few times. I just don’t need the bikes motor to do it all for me. Also no noise! I have a moto bike
^^this, 170 or more and skinny enough for a triple clamp 70-80nm. 'D still have a 160/170 800w plus extender 120nm eeb for xc, A to B , dirtjumps, alpine missions and back up
The new TQ motor has me interested. Also that (maxon)? motor. I don’t want or need a bail out or to detune it. Just the smallest and lightest motor system.
Please some company release a modern 170mm travel, light weight (under 50lb) enduro (or DH) with race geo, small down tube good looking e bike. I...
Please some company release a modern 170mm travel, light weight (under 50lb) enduro (or DH) with race geo, small down tube good looking e bike. I don’t need much more than 60 ish NM or a battery bigger than 500wh. I’d love a removable battery with multiple options from small to big ish. But it has to accept a range extender. Transition relay PNW replacement please! I have money!
Not interested in 1500nm and heavy 800wh battery stuff. I’m still a real mtber at heart, but I need help pedaling a dual spring, DH wheels and tires, big brake etc heavy DH stuff to the top of the run at least a few times. I just don’t need the bikes motor to do it all for me. Also no noise! I have a moto bike
The new TQ motor has me interested. Also that (maxon)? motor. I don’t want or need a bail out or to detune it. Just the smallest...
The new TQ motor has me interested. Also that (maxon)? motor. I don’t want or need a bail out or to detune it. Just the smallest and lightest motor system.
Please some company release a modern 170mm travel, light weight (under 50lb) enduro (or DH) with race geo, small down tube good looking e bike. I...
Please some company release a modern 170mm travel, light weight (under 50lb) enduro (or DH) with race geo, small down tube good looking e bike. I don’t need much more than 60 ish NM or a battery bigger than 500wh. I’d love a removable battery with multiple options from small to big ish. But it has to accept a range extender. Transition relay PNW replacement please! I have money!
Not interested in 1500nm and heavy 800wh battery stuff. I’m still a real mtber at heart, but I need help pedaling a dual spring, DH wheels and tires, big brake etc heavy DH stuff to the top of the run at least a few times. I just don’t need the bikes motor to do it all for me. Also no noise! I have a moto bike
SC Bullit fits also. High end builds typically around 48 lbs, I had my Vallit (over forked & shocked Vala) down at ~47.3 lbs for a bit with pedals.
Please some company release a modern 170mm travel, light weight (under 50lb) enduro (or DH) with race geo, small down tube good looking e bike. I...
Please some company release a modern 170mm travel, light weight (under 50lb) enduro (or DH) with race geo, small down tube good looking e bike. I don’t need much more than 60 ish NM or a battery bigger than 500wh. I’d love a removable battery with multiple options from small to big ish. But it has to accept a range extender. Transition relay PNW replacement please! I have money!
Not interested in 1500nm and heavy 800wh battery stuff. I’m still a real mtber at heart, but I need help pedaling a dual spring, DH wheels and tires, big brake etc heavy DH stuff to the top of the run at least a few times. I just don’t need the bikes motor to do it all for me. Also no noise! I have a moto bike
SC Bullit fits also. High end builds typically around 48 lbs, I had my Vallit (over forked & shocked Vala) down at ~47.3 lbs for a...
SC Bullit fits also. High end builds typically around 48 lbs, I had my Vallit (over forked & shocked Vala) down at ~47.3 lbs for a bit with pedals.
Santa Cruz Bullit is exactly that bike, all builds below 50 lbs with a 600wh battery and you get the range extender for free if you buy a 2026, but 2027 builds will have the range extender in the box from the factory.
Please some company release a modern 170mm travel, light weight (under 50lb) enduro (or DH) with race geo, small down tube good looking e bike. I...
Please some company release a modern 170mm travel, light weight (under 50lb) enduro (or DH) with race geo, small down tube good looking e bike. I don’t need much more than 60 ish NM or a battery bigger than 500wh. I’d love a removable battery with multiple options from small to big ish. But it has to accept a range extender. Transition relay PNW replacement please! I have money!
Not interested in 1500nm and heavy 800wh battery stuff. I’m still a real mtber at heart, but I need help pedaling a dual spring, DH wheels and tires, big brake etc heavy DH stuff to the top of the run at least a few times. I just don’t need the bikes motor to do it all for me. Also no noise! I have a moto bike
Santa Cruz Bullit is exactly that bike, all builds below 50 lbs with a 600wh battery and you get the range extender for free if you...
Santa Cruz Bullit is exactly that bike, all builds below 50 lbs with a 600wh battery and you get the range extender for free if you buy a 2026, but 2027 builds will have the range extender in the box from the factory.
Detune power via the app and you're all set.
You are right it’s pretty dang close. If I’m picky id take a smaller drive unit, smaller internal battery, smaller down tube. With the ability to use that big of an extender. But that bike does get me thinking, but it’s just not better than my current E with 170mm front and rear springs plus DH tires. Big battery’s kill most new bikes in my opinion. Extender just for bigger days
Santa Cruz Bullit is exactly that bike, all builds below 50 lbs with a 600wh battery and you get the range extender for free if you...
Santa Cruz Bullit is exactly that bike, all builds below 50 lbs with a 600wh battery and you get the range extender for free if you buy a 2026, but 2027 builds will have the range extender in the box from the factory.
You are right it’s pretty dang close. If I’m picky id take a smaller drive unit, smaller internal battery, smaller down tube. With the ability to...
You are right it’s pretty dang close. If I’m picky id take a smaller drive unit, smaller internal battery, smaller down tube. With the ability to use that big of an extender. But that bike does get me thinking, but it’s just not better than my current E with 170mm front and rear springs plus DH tires. Big battery’s kill most new bikes in my opinion. Extender just for bigger days
I really hope Transition has another crack at the Relay. That bike just makes too much sense for this fallen world. Use either the TQ120 or a detuned Avinox + 600wh swappable battery. I'd seriously look at merging my park bike and long travel ebike into one bike.
When I bought my current eeb it was down to a shop demo Relay (with warranty) or a new V3 Bullit, and given what's happened with Fazua I'm very glad I took a risk on the outdated Shimano motor (it's still a motor so I'm happy). 53lbs (with heavy parts) doesn't bother me but I do often wonder what a 46lb ebike would be like.
Speaking of Shimano does anyone know anything about that new EP8XX that the Honda uses? I'm hoping it's backwards compatible with current EP801 systems/batteries so I can keep mu Bullit running for 10 years.
Speaking of Shimano does anyone know anything about that new EP8XX that the Honda uses? I'm hoping it's backwards compatible with current EP801 systems/batteries so I...
Speaking of Shimano does anyone know anything about that new EP8XX that the Honda uses? I'm hoping it's backwards compatible with current EP801 systems/batteries so I can keep mu Bullit running for 10 years.
It's not straight up backwards compatible. First of all, it runs on a 43V architecture, in contrast to the previous generations which run on 36V. The mounting bolts are in the same locations, but the external form factor is not the same (significantly slimmer around the bottom, and other small differences here and there).
Please some company release a modern 170mm travel, light weight (under 50lb) enduro (or DH) with race geo, small down tube good looking e bike. I...
Please some company release a modern 170mm travel, light weight (under 50lb) enduro (or DH) with race geo, small down tube good looking e bike. I don’t need much more than 60 ish NM or a battery bigger than 500wh. I’d love a removable battery with multiple options from small to big ish. But it has to accept a range extender. Transition relay PNW replacement please! I have money!
Not interested in 1500nm and heavy 800wh battery stuff. I’m still a real mtber at heart, but I need help pedaling a dual spring, DH wheels and tires, big brake etc heavy DH stuff to the top of the run at least a few times. I just don’t need the bikes motor to do it all for me. Also no noise! I have a moto bike
Those top model review weights don't really translate into real world lower spec weights with pedals. M20 seems to weigh in at over 23 kg stock without pedals. It also lacks a removable battery and a range extender removes the water bottle. So ideally it should be slide out with two or more battery sizes so you have low weight for most days and can sill run a water bottle when you need more range. But it ruins optics so it won't make a comeback I fear.
I think Trek makes the best bikes that fit this lightweight AM/ Enduro description and they will soon have even more options with the TQ120 being released.
As we all know the bike's weight is mostly a result of the build & the battery size. All CF frames are within 1# of each other anyways.
I can't recommend that TQ60 enough if you are cool with a true mid-power. My gf's Ex-e weighs <41#s ready to ride with the 580wh battery and is really such a sweet motor package. It's apparently getting a software bump to 70 or 75 soon.
The new TQ120 versions will not be much heavier, as long as your build is the same and you run the lighter battery. So, I'd expect a solid 30% off of a TQ60 given that info.
Those top model review weights don't really translate into real world lower spec weights with pedals. M20 seems to weigh in at over 23 kg stock...
Those top model review weights don't really translate into real world lower spec weights with pedals. M20 seems to weigh in at over 23 kg stock without pedals. It also lacks a removable battery and a range extender removes the water bottle. So ideally it should be slide out with two or more battery sizes so you have low weight for most days and can sill run a water bottle when you need more range. But it ruins optics so it won't make a comeback I fear.
By removable battery do you guys mean one that comes directly out of the downtube, as apposed to sliding out near the bb? And is it simply to remove for park or to swap on rides?
Removal to the underside or side of the downtube usually results in the biggest weight penalty while sliding it out at the bb area results in the lowest but requires the motor to get out of the way there. A range extender usually takes away the room for the water bottle and there can be electrical issues on how the two batteries are emptied. Not sure about center of gravity with range extender vs different size batteries. Probably depends on the exact specs how high the range extender is mounted. Lower mounted range extenders could lower the center of gravity.
Santa Cruz Bullit is exactly that bike, all builds below 50 lbs with a 600wh battery and you get the range extender for free if you...
Santa Cruz Bullit is exactly that bike, all builds below 50 lbs with a 600wh battery and you get the range extender for free if you buy a 2026, but 2027 builds will have the range extender in the box from the factory.
Detune power via the app and you're all set.
My S4 dreadnought-E is 51lbs with the 800Wh battery. Could easily shave off 1-1.5lbs with just the wheels and cassette. A 600Wh battery would take it down to mid 47lbs with DH tires. Not bad at all imo and the Druid-E could go even lighter
Santa Cruz Bullit is exactly that bike, all builds below 50 lbs with a 600wh battery and you get the range extender for free if you...
Santa Cruz Bullit is exactly that bike, all builds below 50 lbs with a 600wh battery and you get the range extender for free if you buy a 2026, but 2027 builds will have the range extender in the box from the factory.
My S4 dreadnought-E is 51lbs with the 800Wh battery. Could easily shave off 1-1.5lbs with just the wheels and cassette. A 600Wh battery would take it...
My S4 dreadnought-E is 51lbs with the 800Wh battery. Could easily shave off 1-1.5lbs with just the wheels and cassette. A 600Wh battery would take it down to mid 47lbs with DH tires. Not bad at all imo and the Druid-E could go even lighter
Modern full power e-bikes are pretty easy to get the weight down on if your budget is good and you just need 'trail' performance.
My own L Wild was at a weight (it was 48.6#s with dual coil suspension, 200mm AXS, DH tires & wheels), that I could see that just going to a trail build it would have weighed <46#s, ready to ride.
Problem is that e-bikes really allow you to smash out laps and be hard on parts, so I ended up adding even more weight, to get what I wanted.
I'd really like to eventually build a trail SL e-bike with a F36 front fork and get it down to around 40#s.
Amidst the power wars, the last thing we need is a new ebike that looks like a moto. Luckily they used the Shimano motor so all the hikers should have zero problem with this on the trails!
Honda enters eMTB market… and will exit pretty quickly.
Anyone heard anything about a new Levo coming Spring 27?
I've heard this from a guy with Specialized contacts. No details, just that it's not just another rebrand of the Levo 4.
That's a big 180 I think? As a consumer on the outside I had the impression that Spesh intended to use the molds for the Levo 4 for like 5 years and just release the same front triangle with different links/chainstays for different travel brackets. Huge price tags and low SKUs and print money.
It's really odd to me that many brands seem to have been tipped off early about Amflow releasing a $5k bike and came out with their own $5k eebs to match them, and Spesh seems to have had no idea it was coming. puts on tinfoil hat
The levo downtube could swallow an amflow, it’s not just a price matching issue.
If I had to speculate, Big S is a large ship to turn, and they were already a few years into Levo 4 development/production when the Avinox wave started to break. They probably would have liked to react sooner, but they had a massive glut of L4 inventory that they needed to unload first. We've seen them frantically coming up with different build kits (the R model & Evo) using the same base frame/motor to try and clear out some of that stock. But if they hold fast to the flop of the L4 design too long, they will cease being relevant, especially since there are so many Avinox powered bikes from other brands that are both lighter and more powerful. So while they'd probably liked to have milked the L4 design a couple more years (similar to how long the L3 was out), Avinox is forcing their hand to iterate faster.
Maybe special ed dont want to get caught with their pants down again and are releasing new frame to fit an mgu. Supposedly everyone has been developing one, including the motor systems we havent seen with proto mgu's
Please some company release a modern 170mm travel, light weight (under 50lb) enduro (or DH) with race geo, small down tube good looking e bike. I don’t need much more than 60 ish NM or a battery bigger than 500wh. I’d love a removable battery with multiple options from small to big ish. But it has to accept a range extender. Transition relay PNW replacement please! I have money!
Not interested in 1500nm and heavy 800wh battery stuff. I’m still a real mtber at heart, but I need help pedaling a dual spring, DH wheels and tires, big brake etc heavy DH stuff to the top of the run at least a few times. I just don’t need the bikes motor to do it all for me. Also no noise! I have a moto bike
orbea wild rise LT has 170mm front/rear, 48 pounds AND avinox motor. just run it in eco if you don't want the help?
https://www.vitalmtb.com/product/guide/e-bikes/orbea/wild-lt-carbon-76496#product-reviews-813296
the rallon RS is only 40 pounds with 170/180 and tiny motor and battery.
https://www.vitalmtb.com/features/orbeas-rallon-rs-e-bike-thats-not-e-bikers
Hold out a few months for the new TQ 120 bikes.
Trek has their updated Fuel+ platform (that has been extensively leaked) being revealed in January. You'll be able to run that at 160/170.
I'm sure Yeti, Norco and Propain won't be far behind.
The 120Nm will eat the battery quickly, but just de-tune it down close to the current TQ levels and use the full power as a bailout.
If more companies gain access to the Avinox 700Wh battery, that should help get closer too…
^^this, 170 or more and skinny enough for a triple clamp 70-80nm. 'D still have a 160/170 800w plus extender 120nm eeb for xc, A to B , dirtjumps, alpine missions and back up
Dreadnought E fits the bill too. I think it comes in at under 50 pounds, and its 170mm plus an idler.
The new TQ motor has me interested. Also that (maxon)? motor. I don’t want or need a bail out or to detune it. Just the smallest and lightest motor system.
I think Orbea is on the right track. The Rallon RS is so cool. Just needs a little more power.
https://bimotal.com/products/elevate?srsltid=AYCX9vJidHY4t2lTFMGXf8XED-5eOihTswdmb5oCv-Xq9uqpUNjjBlKm
?? 🤷♂️🤷♂️
SC Bullit fits also. High end builds typically around 48 lbs, I had my Vallit (over forked & shocked Vala) down at ~47.3 lbs for a bit with pedals.
Santa Cruz Bullit is exactly that bike, all builds below 50 lbs with a 600wh battery and you get the range extender for free if you buy a 2026, but 2027 builds will have the range extender in the box from the factory.
Detune power via the app and you're all set.
You are right it’s pretty dang close. If I’m picky id take a smaller drive unit, smaller internal battery, smaller down tube. With the ability to use that big of an extender. But that bike does get me thinking, but it’s just not better than my current E with 170mm front and rear springs plus DH tires. Big battery’s kill most new bikes in my opinion. Extender just for bigger days
I really hope Transition has another crack at the Relay. That bike just makes too much sense for this fallen world. Use either the TQ120 or a detuned Avinox + 600wh swappable battery. I'd seriously look at merging my park bike and long travel ebike into one bike.
When I bought my current eeb it was down to a shop demo Relay (with warranty) or a new V3 Bullit, and given what's happened with Fazua I'm very glad I took a risk on the outdated Shimano motor (it's still a motor so I'm happy). 53lbs (with heavy parts) doesn't bother me but I do often wonder what a 46lb ebike would be like.
Speaking of Shimano does anyone know anything about that new EP8XX that the Honda uses? I'm hoping it's backwards compatible with current EP801 systems/batteries so I can keep mu Bullit running for 10 years.
It's not straight up backwards compatible. First of all, it runs on a 43V architecture, in contrast to the previous generations which run on 36V. The mounting bolts are in the same locations, but the external form factor is not the same (significantly slimmer around the bottom, and other small differences here and there).
We have more info and first ride impressions here: https://www.vitalmtb.com/features/first-ride-honda-enters-e-mtb-game-all-new-rn0.
Those top model review weights don't really translate into real world lower spec weights with pedals. M20 seems to weigh in at over 23 kg stock without pedals. It also lacks a removable battery and a range extender removes the water bottle. So ideally it should be slide out with two or more battery sizes so you have low weight for most days and can sill run a water bottle when you need more range. But it ruins optics so it won't make a comeback I fear.
I think Trek makes the best bikes that fit this lightweight AM/ Enduro description and they will soon have even more options with the TQ120 being released.
As we all know the bike's weight is mostly a result of the build & the battery size. All CF frames are within 1# of each other anyways.
I can't recommend that TQ60 enough if you are cool with a true mid-power. My gf's Ex-e weighs <41#s ready to ride with the 580wh battery and is really such a sweet motor package. It's apparently getting a software bump to 70 or 75 soon.
The new TQ120 versions will not be much heavier, as long as your build is the same and you run the lighter battery. So, I'd expect a solid 30% off of a TQ60 given that info.
GL
By removable battery do you guys mean one that comes directly out of the downtube, as apposed to sliding out near the bb? And is it simply to remove for park or to swap on rides?
Removal to the underside or side of the downtube usually results in the biggest weight penalty while sliding it out at the bb area results in the lowest but requires the motor to get out of the way there. A range extender usually takes away the room for the water bottle and there can be electrical issues on how the two batteries are emptied. Not sure about center of gravity with range extender vs different size batteries. Probably depends on the exact specs how high the range extender is mounted. Lower mounted range extenders could lower the center of gravity.
My S4 dreadnought-E is 51lbs with the 800Wh battery. Could easily shave off 1-1.5lbs with just the wheels and cassette. A 600Wh battery would take it down to mid 47lbs with DH tires. Not bad at all imo and the Druid-E could go even lighter
Modern full power e-bikes are pretty easy to get the weight down on if your budget is good and you just need 'trail' performance.
My own L Wild was at a weight (it was 48.6#s with dual coil suspension, 200mm AXS, DH tires & wheels), that I could see that just going to a trail build it would have weighed <46#s, ready to ride.
Problem is that e-bikes really allow you to smash out laps and be hard on parts, so I ended up adding even more weight, to get what I wanted.
I'd really like to eventually build a trail SL e-bike with a F36 front fork and get it down to around 40#s.
Post a reply to: E-bike talk: not tech rumor derailment