Why would that be? Asa and Pinky are in the top 5 WC overall, Bodie has qualified 2nd and qualified for all WC races all three...
Why would that be? Asa and Pinky are in the top 5 WC overall, Bodie has qualified 2nd and qualified for all WC races all three are 21 or younger. Luca Shaw has won a race and was 3rd overall last year. It feels to my like the US is doing well in the WC races and getting better. JMHO.
Yes. The US is doing amazingly at the moment. Especially with Aletha coming up we finally have another top tier female racer too. But given our...
Yes. The US is doing amazingly at the moment. Especially with Aletha coming up we finally have another top tier female racer too. But given our population and depth of brands investment/involvement in the industry etc.. I just feel there has often been large gaps in talent coming through over the years and looking at the category system compared to the relative simplicity elsewhere in race results, just made me think is all.
The way it looks to me, there is basically one epicenter of downhill in the US: Western NC / Eastern TN. I'd also say that Windrock / Kanuga is also a big reason that the USDH has gotten so much better in the last 5 yrs.: most downhill riders from the US spend some chunk of time here in the winter / spring, and that shared space counts for a lot.
Whistler / Squamish is the other obvious North-American example (provided above). I think that the point of Whistler providing the atmosphere, terrain, and critical-mass to produce Stevie Smith and Jackson can't be under-rated. Lots of great locales for DH in the US, PNW, So Cal, Rockies, SE, NE...but they are all so spread-out that you only have one or a handful of top riders maybe at a time, in each--and all are somewhat isolated.
IMO, Windrock started something and Pisgah has just increased on it. You can show up at Windrock in the winter / spring, and see essentially every top USDH rider at some point. Essentially, what Neko and others started...is why USDH is so much better in the last five years.
There are plenty of more accomplished gravity racers than Stevie or Jackson from places that don’t even have big hills much less mountains. Richie Rude being my local example.
Most of the winter riding in Canada is at provost on Vancouver island. Squamish and the north shore are usually open, but it’s very common to see lots of activity there.
There are plenty of more accomplished gravity racers than Stevie or Jackson from places that don’t even have big hills much less mountains. Richie Rude being...
There are plenty of more accomplished gravity racers than Stevie or Jackson from places that don’t even have big hills much less mountains. Richie Rude being my local example.
I hate to be that guy but I can't possibly see how frameworks could pay Asa enough to stay.
I disagree, I think he's on a two year contract at least and I don't see him breaking that commitment. After that maybe, but he has a good thing going it seems and recognizes that. I think he's probably making more than we might assume, maybe not the top dollar he potentially could, but probably really close.
I disagree, I think he's on a two year contract at least and I don't see him breaking that commitment. After that maybe, but he has...
I disagree, I think he's on a two year contract at least and I don't see him breaking that commitment. After that maybe, but he has a good thing going it seems and recognizes that. I think he's probably making more than we might assume, maybe not the top dollar he potentially could, but probably really close.
Pretty sure it was a 3 year deal last time, and included a stake in Frameworks. I don't see Asa going anywhere anytime soon, he's stoked and comfortable where he's at.
Don't forget cash from other "personal" sponsors such as Fox (head and tail), Redbull, etc. Dude's in a position to really rake it in right now.
Surprised if teams will still stick with older riders when the field is stacked with so many good young riders… there seems to be this shift...
Surprised if teams will still stick with older riders when the field is stacked with so many good young riders… there seems to be this shift where riders that moved up from junior last year no longer have to work their way up through the field and build off season after season.
Young ones would more likely take a team ride and demand less than a seasoned pro.
There is a lot of talent out there…… and there is a lot of big teams trying to get there bikes on the top step with riders that just aren’t preforming.
Haha depends… how much of a budget are you running next year?
Budget can evolve depending on the rider (because of partners). [We wanted Bode Burke but will not have him :-(] Almost set for Elite Men. Trying to find the right Woman Elite.
Budget can evolve depending on the rider (because of partners).[We wanted Bode Burke but will not have him :-(]Almost set for Elite Men. Trying to find...
Budget can evolve depending on the rider (because of partners). [We wanted Bode Burke but will not have him :-(] Almost set for Elite Men. Trying to find the right Woman Elite.
Pretty sure it was a 3 year deal last time, and included a stake in Frameworks. I don't see Asa going anywhere anytime soon, he's stoked...
Pretty sure it was a 3 year deal last time, and included a stake in Frameworks. I don't see Asa going anywhere anytime soon, he's stoked and comfortable where he's at.
Don't forget cash from other "personal" sponsors such as Fox (head and tail), Redbull, etc. Dude's in a position to really rake it in right now.
I agree with this. Clearly the FW bike isn’t holding him back, and the team environment seems great for him based on what we see. I think a lot of FW team sponsors would rather pony up more $$ supporting FW than see Asa leave to Specialized Gravity in particular as I don’t believe they share any team sponsors.
I agree with this. Clearly the FW bike isn’t holding him back, and the team environment seems great for him based on what we see. I...
I agree with this. Clearly the FW bike isn’t holding him back, and the team environment seems great for him based on what we see. I think a lot of FW team sponsors would rather pony up more $$ supporting FW than see Asa leave to Specialized Gravity in particular as I don’t believe they share any team sponsors.
To add, as Asa an Frameworks continue with success they are going to be able to get other sponsors or have existing sponsors pay more. I think the days of the frame company needing to float the majority of cash is over...
I think frameworks has more money than is implied by all the “underdog” comments, maybe Asa does get bought out but wouldn’t surprise me if given his success Frameworks other sponsors like TRP, Conti , and Loctite would be happy to increase their sponsor dollars to keep him on board. They do seem to run a very lean and efficient operation so even though their total budget isn’t as big as some other teams, probably a much higher percentage goes towards rider salaries.
There are plenty of more accomplished gravity racers than Stevie or Jackson from places that don’t even have big hills much less mountains. Richie Rude being...
There are plenty of more accomplished gravity racers than Stevie or Jackson from places that don’t even have big hills much less mountains. Richie Rude being my local example.
The biggest factor in determine top racers is a strong local race scene for juniors to come up through, not having bike parks or mountains.
Australia's most successful athletes have come from WA and Adelaide, both with tiny hills and no bike parks (by international standards) but very strong club culture and turnouts to race weekends.
It's competition in racing that creates elite athletes, not the mountains.
Pretty sure it was a 3 year deal last time, and included a stake in Frameworks. I don't see Asa going anywhere anytime soon, he's stoked...
Pretty sure it was a 3 year deal last time, and included a stake in Frameworks. I don't see Asa going anywhere anytime soon, he's stoked and comfortable where he's at.
Don't forget cash from other "personal" sponsors such as Fox (head and tail), Redbull, etc. Dude's in a position to really rake it in right now.
Also don’t forget how many racers lose their magic when they change teams. Asa is super talented and hard working, sure. AND he has Neko and Gwin mentoring him. Bad idea to mess up the soup.
Mullaly has said that nobody offered Vermette more money than they did. I’d imagine that trend will continue. Frameworks has massive partners in Fox and Red Bull…Specialized is proud to give them eebs, they’re in the wind tunnel as much as Syndicate…Aaron Gwin is a player / line coach…three elite wins and an overall, they’re big time!
I agree with this. Clearly the FW bike isn’t holding him back, and the team environment seems great for him based on what we see. I...
I agree with this. Clearly the FW bike isn’t holding him back, and the team environment seems great for him based on what we see. I think a lot of FW team sponsors would rather pony up more $$ supporting FW than see Asa leave to Specialized Gravity in particular as I don’t believe they share any team sponsors.
To add, as Asa an Frameworks continue with success they are going to be able to get other sponsors or have existing sponsors pay more. I...
To add, as Asa an Frameworks continue with success they are going to be able to get other sponsors or have existing sponsors pay more. I think the days of the frame company needing to float the majority of cash is over...
Neko has hinted at this before - the team's sponsors certainly recognise Asa's value, and that of the project in general.
With all the Asa talk, just props to Neko to making it happen. I know most people, myself included, were stoked when he showed up on his own frame out of the blue, especially after all the weird bikes he built with intense and Scott in the last fews years, but it was never a sure thing.
Dude built a world cup winning bike in 5 race seasons starting with him showing up solo from scratch, hope and experience and had more wins than any other bike this season save for Vali's Supreme this season. Absolutely wild.
Hoping Asa and Anna stay with them and keep developing that bike, because it's my absolute favorite on the race scene and it's nice to see it on the top step.
I agree with this. Clearly the FW bike isn’t holding him back, and the team environment seems great for him based on what we see. I...
I agree with this. Clearly the FW bike isn’t holding him back, and the team environment seems great for him based on what we see. I think a lot of FW team sponsors would rather pony up more $$ supporting FW than see Asa leave to Specialized Gravity in particular as I don’t believe they share any team sponsors.
To add, as Asa an Frameworks continue with success they are going to be able to get other sponsors or have existing sponsors pay more. I...
To add, as Asa an Frameworks continue with success they are going to be able to get other sponsors or have existing sponsors pay more. I think the days of the frame company needing to float the majority of cash is over...
Neko has hinted at this before - the team's sponsors certainly recognise Asa's value, and that of the project in general.
For sure. Maybe for the MTB economics thread, but I would have to think any non-frame sponsors (e.g., Fox, WD40, etc.) are going to be more eager to sponsor a team that isn’t focused on marketing or moving toward a production bike. More market share from that team’s success and followers that go to those non-frame sponsor’s products? Neko mentioned again in a recent podcast that FW sales don’t make him any money. In times like these with the Enduro series changing and teams trying to optimize team structures, it’d be cool to hear a few of the marketing leads from these MTB companies give some insight into what they do value most and how they track sales relating to race team sponsorship. I have ridden with a marketing lead from one of the goggle/gear protection companies and he sounded exhausted of trying to quantify the value in sponsoring a DH race team. @Downtime Podcast, have I missed an episode like this from your library?
Budget can evolve depending on the rider (because of partners).[We wanted Bode Burke but will not have him :-(]Almost set for Elite Men. Trying to find...
Budget can evolve depending on the rider (because of partners). [We wanted Bode Burke but will not have him :-(] Almost set for Elite Men. Trying to find the right Woman Elite.
For sure. Maybe for the MTB economics thread, but I would have to think any non-frame sponsors (e.g., Fox, WD40, etc.) are going to be more...
For sure. Maybe for the MTB economics thread, but I would have to think any non-frame sponsors (e.g., Fox, WD40, etc.) are going to be more eager to sponsor a team that isn’t focused on marketing or moving toward a production bike. More market share from that team’s success and followers that go to those non-frame sponsor’s products? Neko mentioned again in a recent podcast that FW sales don’t make him any money. In times like these with the Enduro series changing and teams trying to optimize team structures, it’d be cool to hear a few of the marketing leads from these MTB companies give some insight into what they do value most and how they track sales relating to race team sponsorship. I have ridden with a marketing lead from one of the goggle/gear protection companies and he sounded exhausted of trying to quantify the value in sponsoring a DH race team. @Downtime Podcast, have I missed an episode like this from your library?
@mnp6 no, you've not missed an episode like that from me. I'll keep that in mind for when I get to speak to marketing leads at that scale.
A disappointing but possible reality.I’d hope to see Neko as a Max Commencal type in the future. Given efforts made in his local region to improve the...
A disappointing but possible reality.
I’d hope to see Neko as a Max Commencal type in the future.
Given efforts made in his local region to improve the DH scene I have to believe he has a larger goal in mind than flipping the FW brand.
I'm sure Martin Whitely deserves a lot of credit for Nekos success as well. Mightnt have the public persona of Max but he added a lot of info to Rob Warners broadcast through the years as well
A disappointing but possible reality.I’d hope to see Neko as a Max Commencal type in the future. Given efforts made in his local region to improve the...
A disappointing but possible reality.
I’d hope to see Neko as a Max Commencal type in the future.
Given efforts made in his local region to improve the DH scene I have to believe he has a larger goal in mind than flipping the FW brand.
I'm sure Martin Whitely deserves a lot of credit for Nekos success as well. Mightnt have the public persona of Max but he added a lot...
I'm sure Martin Whitely deserves a lot of credit for Nekos success as well. Mightnt have the public persona of Max but he added a lot of info to Rob Warners broadcast through the years as well
No he doesn’t.
That’s not a slight against Martin. But that’s like giving Aaron gwin credit for asa’s overall win. Sure he was a part of it with some quality advice in key scenarios. But the credit goes to Asa. Aaron said himself he was just happy to be a part of it.
Neko has put in incredible work while building up his employees to meet their potential. He put his money where his mouth is at every step of the way and has shown an ability to have a real pulse for what people want to pay for. Whether it’s his bikes, his bike parks, or cheering for his race team. As well as a proven ability to take a 15 year old kid and turn him into a champion (while seemingly having the time of his life). There have been countless people with far more impact on each of these things than Martin. Not that Martin doesn’t deserve a small amount of credit and isn’t just happy to have been a part of it while getting paid as an agent.
There are plenty of more accomplished gravity racers than Stevie or Jackson from places that don’t even have big hills much less mountains. Richie Rude being...
There are plenty of more accomplished gravity racers than Stevie or Jackson from places that don’t even have big hills much less mountains. Richie Rude being my local example.
And for each of those far-flung elites, you can recall seeing them spending a big chunk of the off-season elsewhere, where there's more riding. All the old Syndicate posts with Steve / Greg / Josh in Spain in the off-season, etc. etc. Or nowadays, how so many teams / riders are spending time in NZ when the rest of the world is snowing and rainy. It's the terrain, but also not being isolated from other riders. I don't think I'm saying something terribly controversial: the US is so spread-out, and it that has hindered us in developing a native DH culture, like Andorra, for instance.
With all the Asa talk, just props to Neko to making it happen. I know most people, myself included, were stoked when he showed up on...
With all the Asa talk, just props to Neko to making it happen. I know most people, myself included, were stoked when he showed up on his own frame out of the blue, especially after all the weird bikes he built with intense and Scott in the last fews years, but it was never a sure thing.
Dude built a world cup winning bike in 5 race seasons starting with him showing up solo from scratch, hope and experience and had more wins than any other bike this season save for Vali's Supreme this season. Absolutely wild.
Hoping Asa and Anna stay with them and keep developing that bike, because it's my absolute favorite on the race scene and it's nice to see it on the top step.
Not to mention actually selling what they are racing.
The way it looks to me, there is basically one epicenter of downhill in the US: Western NC / Eastern TN. I'd also say that Windrock / Kanuga is also a big reason that the USDH has gotten so much better in the last 5 yrs.: most downhill riders from the US spend some chunk of time here in the winter / spring, and that shared space counts for a lot.
Whistler / Squamish is the other obvious North-American example (provided above). I think that the point of Whistler providing the atmosphere, terrain, and critical-mass to produce Stevie Smith and Jackson can't be under-rated. Lots of great locales for DH in the US, PNW, So Cal, Rockies, SE, NE...but they are all so spread-out that you only have one or a handful of top riders maybe at a time, in each--and all are somewhat isolated.
IMO, Windrock started something and Pisgah has just increased on it. You can show up at Windrock in the winter / spring, and see essentially every top USDH rider at some point. Essentially, what Neko and others started...is why USDH is so much better in the last five years.
There are plenty of more accomplished gravity racers than Stevie or Jackson from places that don’t even have big hills much less mountains. Richie Rude being my local example.
Most of the winter riding in Canada is at provost on Vancouver island. Squamish and the north shore are usually open, but it’s very common to see lots of activity there.
I hate to be that guy but I can't possibly see how frameworks could pay Asa enough to stay.
Greg Minnaar enters the chat
I disagree, I think he's on a two year contract at least and I don't see him breaking that commitment. After that maybe, but he has a good thing going it seems and recognizes that. I think he's probably making more than we might assume, maybe not the top dollar he potentially could, but probably really close.
0All good things must come to an end sometime
Neko is no fool and I'm sure he and Asa know the Big S will be sniffing around to replace Loic.
Hopefully whoever tries to poach Asa has to pay through the nose to break the contract.
Hopefully Asa and Frameworks is a permanent thing. They all work so well together
Pretty sure it was a 3 year deal last time, and included a stake in Frameworks. I don't see Asa going anywhere anytime soon, he's stoked and comfortable where he's at.
Don't forget cash from other "personal" sponsors such as Fox (head and tail), Redbull, etc. Dude's in a position to really rake it in right now.
He can contact us :-)
Budget can evolve depending on the rider (because of partners).
[We wanted Bode Burke but will not have him :-(]
Almost set for Elite Men. Trying to find the right Woman Elite.
Will Antoine Rogge be back next year?
I agree with this. Clearly the FW bike isn’t holding him back, and the team environment seems great for him based on what we see. I think a lot of FW team sponsors would rather pony up more $$ supporting FW than see Asa leave to Specialized Gravity in particular as I don’t believe they share any team sponsors.
To add, as Asa an Frameworks continue with success they are going to be able to get other sponsors or have existing sponsors pay more. I think the days of the frame company needing to float the majority of cash is over...
Probably a high chance of some trying to buy Frameworks from Neko
I think frameworks has more money than is implied by all the “underdog” comments, maybe Asa does get bought out but wouldn’t surprise me if given his success Frameworks other sponsors like TRP, Conti , and Loctite would be happy to increase their sponsor dollars to keep him on board. They do seem to run a very lean and efficient operation so even though their total budget isn’t as big as some other teams, probably a much higher percentage goes towards rider salaries.
The biggest factor in determine top racers is a strong local race scene for juniors to come up through, not having bike parks or mountains.
Australia's most successful athletes have come from WA and Adelaide, both with tiny hills and no bike parks (by international standards) but very strong club culture and turnouts to race weekends.
It's competition in racing that creates elite athletes, not the mountains.
Also don’t forget how many racers lose their magic when they change teams. Asa is super talented and hard working, sure. AND he has Neko and Gwin mentoring him. Bad idea to mess up the soup.
Specialized are good at that 🤫
Mullaly has said that nobody offered Vermette more money than they did. I’d imagine that trend will continue. Frameworks has massive partners in Fox and Red Bull…Specialized is proud to give them eebs, they’re in the wind tunnel as much as Syndicate…Aaron Gwin is a player / line coach…three elite wins and an overall, they’re big time!
Neko has hinted at this before - the team's sponsors certainly recognise Asa's value, and that of the project in general.
With all the Asa talk, just props to Neko to making it happen. I know most people, myself included, were stoked when he showed up on his own frame out of the blue, especially after all the weird bikes he built with intense and Scott in the last fews years, but it was never a sure thing.
Dude built a world cup winning bike in 5 race seasons starting with him showing up solo from scratch, hope and experience and had more wins than any other bike this season save for Vali's Supreme this season. Absolutely wild.
Hoping Asa and Anna stay with them and keep developing that bike, because it's my absolute favorite on the race scene and it's nice to see it on the top step.
For sure. Maybe for the MTB economics thread, but I would have to think any non-frame sponsors (e.g., Fox, WD40, etc.) are going to be more eager to sponsor a team that isn’t focused on marketing or moving toward a production bike. More market share from that team’s success and followers that go to those non-frame sponsor’s products? Neko mentioned again in a recent podcast that FW sales don’t make him any money. In times like these with the Enduro series changing and teams trying to optimize team structures, it’d be cool to hear a few of the marketing leads from these MTB companies give some insight into what they do value most and how they track sales relating to race team sponsorship. I have ridden with a marketing lead from one of the goggle/gear protection companies and he sounded exhausted of trying to quantify the value in sponsoring a DH race team. @Downtime Podcast, have I missed an episode like this from your library?
yes :-)
@mnp6 no, you've not missed an episode like that from me. I'll keep that in mind for when I get to speak to marketing leads at that scale.
A disappointing but possible reality.
I’d hope to see Neko as a Max Commencal type in the future.
Given efforts made in his local region to improve the DH scene I have to believe he has a larger goal in mind than flipping the FW brand.
I'm sure Martin Whitely deserves a lot of credit for Nekos success as well. Mightnt have the public persona of Max but he added a lot of info to Rob Warners broadcast through the years as well
No he doesn’t.
That’s not a slight against Martin. But that’s like giving Aaron gwin credit for asa’s overall win. Sure he was a part of it with some quality advice in key scenarios. But the credit goes to Asa. Aaron said himself he was just happy to be a part of it.
Neko has put in incredible work while building up his employees to meet their potential. He put his money where his mouth is at every step of the way and has shown an ability to have a real pulse for what people want to pay for. Whether it’s his bikes, his bike parks, or cheering for his race team. As well as a proven ability to take a 15 year old kid and turn him into a champion (while seemingly having the time of his life). There have been countless people with far more impact on each of these things than Martin. Not that Martin doesn’t deserve a small amount of credit and isn’t just happy to have been a part of it while getting paid as an agent.
And for each of those far-flung elites, you can recall seeing them spending a big chunk of the off-season elsewhere, where there's more riding. All the old Syndicate posts with Steve / Greg / Josh in Spain in the off-season, etc. etc. Or nowadays, how so many teams / riders are spending time in NZ when the rest of the world is snowing and rainy. It's the terrain, but also not being isolated from other riders. I don't think I'm saying something terribly controversial: the US is so spread-out, and it that has hindered us in developing a native DH culture, like Andorra, for instance.
This is a great discussion. However, on the team rumors front:
Who's filling Millie's spot now that she is stepping away?
Will Pivot add a second elite woman?
Any legit news on the Norco male riders? It looks like the women's side is covered.
Not to mention actually selling what they are racing.
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