Does anyone have any rumors on an Avinox bottle sized range extender? I can't imagine they're content with strapping an entire battery to the downtube and...
Does anyone have any rumors on an Avinox bottle sized range extender? I can't imagine they're content with strapping an entire battery to the downtube and calling it a range extender. Seems like they could do a 300wh one in a decent form factor or maybe even a 200wh that isn't annoying to lug around on your back?
The range extender question is the last hurdle for me to want an Avinox bike with an integrated battery. I got to ride the Orbea Wild Avinox (1 of 6 in the US allegedly) around the parking lot the other day and it was love at first sight. All these integrated battery Avinox bikes just look too good for me to stick to my removable battery absolutism. DJI have broken me.
I think it was a Rob Rides video that said there aren't any plans for a bottle-shaped range extender. The logic they used was that riders...
I think it was a Rob Rides video that said there aren't any plans for a bottle-shaped range extender. The logic they used was that riders should/would take a break while riding and be able to charge their bikes enough to negate the need for a range extender. Great for those doing laps/loops, not so good for the epic out-and-back trips. I'd love to have that extra bit of range sometimes, but really don't want that range extender on there.
I'd be open to carrying a charger if it was small and light enough for really long rides and I could take a break somewhere to refuel and recharge. A friend of mine takes his Specialized charger with him on super long rides where he plans out a refuel/recharge location.
Lame if true but I could totally see Avinoxt trying to tell me what I shouId do on a ride given their press release mansplaining their view on higher power motors.
I suppose I could fast charge my Avinox bike on my Cybertruck…erm DJI camp battery between laps but I grab the eeb for max laps in minimum time. Waiting an hour to charge back up during a ride is pretty wack even if you’re not rushing home to help take care of kids.
An upshot of this is that hopefully it will be the end of brands only offering 600wh only on integrated battery frames. 600wh is not nearly enough to have a full park day self shuttling and certainly isn’t enough for lazy people to ride 1500wh motors in boost on short rides.
Does anyone have any rumors on an Avinox bottle sized range extender? I can't imagine they're content with strapping an entire battery to the downtube and...
Does anyone have any rumors on an Avinox bottle sized range extender? I can't imagine they're content with strapping an entire battery to the downtube and calling it a range extender. Seems like they could do a 300wh one in a decent form factor or maybe even a 200wh that isn't annoying to lug around on your back?
The range extender question is the last hurdle for me to want an Avinox bike with an integrated battery. I got to ride the Orbea Wild Avinox (1 of 6 in the US allegedly) around the parking lot the other day and it was love at first sight. All these integrated battery Avinox bikes just look too good for me to stick to my removable battery absolutism. DJI have broken me.
I think it was a Rob Rides video that said there aren't any plans for a bottle-shaped range extender. The logic they used was that riders...
I think it was a Rob Rides video that said there aren't any plans for a bottle-shaped range extender. The logic they used was that riders should/would take a break while riding and be able to charge their bikes enough to negate the need for a range extender. Great for those doing laps/loops, not so good for the epic out-and-back trips. I'd love to have that extra bit of range sometimes, but really don't want that range extender on there.
I'd be open to carrying a charger if it was small and light enough for really long rides and I could take a break somewhere to refuel and recharge. A friend of mine takes his Specialized charger with him on super long rides where he plans out a refuel/recharge location.
Lame if true but I could totally see Avinoxt trying to tell me what I shouId do on a ride given their press release mansplaining their...
Lame if true but I could totally see Avinoxt trying to tell me what I shouId do on a ride given their press release mansplaining their view on higher power motors.
I suppose I could fast charge my Avinox bike on my Cybertruck…erm DJI camp battery between laps but I grab the eeb for max laps in minimum time. Waiting an hour to charge back up during a ride is pretty wack even if you’re not rushing home to help take care of kids.
An upshot of this is that hopefully it will be the end of brands only offering 600wh only on integrated battery frames. 600wh is not nearly enough to have a full park day self shuttling and certainly isn’t enough for lazy people to ride 1500wh motors in boost on short rides.
I have a 600wh in frame battery with a 250w range extender on my bike, which makes 750w of max power. I have zero issues soft pedaling my way into 4,500' elevation gain rides in boost mode. I also do plenty of epic 7,500' elevation gain rides in mid power modes on this bike. Lamenting 600wh internal frame batteries is quite frankly lame and imo based on a desire for more power then is necessary or laziness. 200wh doesn't make or break any rides I want to do and 3lbs of weight on the bike not up high is a fair trade off... but also doesn't make a break a ride I want to do.
Can you guys swap out batteries?On my old school 2019 600W bike, I had 2 batteries. Swap was quick. On my new 750W bike. Bah. If I...
Can you guys swap out batteries?
On my old school 2019 600W bike, I had 2 batteries. Swap was quick.
On my new 750W bike. Bah. If I run out of juice, then that's a sign from the juice gods that it's hot tub time machine....time.
those were the days, first 504W battery in trail, come back to the car, swap out the second battery in 30 seconds and then do another few laps in boost. The bikes were light but ugly with the external batteries.
I think it was a Rob Rides video that said there aren't any plans for a bottle-shaped range extender. The logic they used was that riders...
I think it was a Rob Rides video that said there aren't any plans for a bottle-shaped range extender. The logic they used was that riders should/would take a break while riding and be able to charge their bikes enough to negate the need for a range extender. Great for those doing laps/loops, not so good for the epic out-and-back trips. I'd love to have that extra bit of range sometimes, but really don't want that range extender on there.
I'd be open to carrying a charger if it was small and light enough for really long rides and I could take a break somewhere to refuel and recharge. A friend of mine takes his Specialized charger with him on super long rides where he plans out a refuel/recharge location.
Lame if true but I could totally see Avinoxt trying to tell me what I shouId do on a ride given their press release mansplaining their...
Lame if true but I could totally see Avinoxt trying to tell me what I shouId do on a ride given their press release mansplaining their view on higher power motors.
I suppose I could fast charge my Avinox bike on my Cybertruck…erm DJI camp battery between laps but I grab the eeb for max laps in minimum time. Waiting an hour to charge back up during a ride is pretty wack even if you’re not rushing home to help take care of kids.
An upshot of this is that hopefully it will be the end of brands only offering 600wh only on integrated battery frames. 600wh is not nearly enough to have a full park day self shuttling and certainly isn’t enough for lazy people to ride 1500wh motors in boost on short rides.
I have a 600wh in frame battery with a 250w range extender on my bike, which makes 750w of max power. I have zero issues soft...
I have a 600wh in frame battery with a 250w range extender on my bike, which makes 750w of max power. I have zero issues soft pedaling my way into 4,500' elevation gain rides in boost mode. I also do plenty of epic 7,500' elevation gain rides in mid power modes on this bike. Lamenting 600wh internal frame batteries is quite frankly lame and imo based on a desire for more power then is necessary or laziness. 200wh doesn't make or break any rides I want to do and 3lbs of weight on the bike not up high is a fair trade off... but also doesn't make a break a ride I want to do.
The weight difference between a Bosch 600wh and 800wh internal battery is close to 1.3lbs. Is your 3lbs referring to the weight of the range extender? If so that just proves my point that 800wh internal needs to be an option. The handling characteristics of adding 1.3 lbs is not noticeable to your average rider and I think even I could fail a blind test guessing if the bike has a 600wh and 800wh internal battery on handling alone. Quarter HP did some interesting testing on adding weight higher up and even hypothesized Fox intentionally added weight to the top of the Podium: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHuEfR3pyIg
My desire for more range isn't for laziness or more power. I ride my EP8 detuned to 60nm in Eco and Trail. It's the desire for a true park day on the ebike without the shuttle truck or chairlift, which is 8,000ft or more. We have steep 1,500ft climbs where I ride.
I'd wish we had a manufacturer that had an approach to blend in an external battery into a light frame with visual carbon blends or something that doesn't make the bike look that ugly. Personally I don't worry much about looks but I think to stay in business brands have to check that box somehow. Lapierre was a bit too radical and only offered one battery size. But a modular apporach with light external batteries could create some really light and quickly adaptable full power emtbs with really good handling.
I just had a crash out of nowhere while riding the 700 Wh battery instead of the 500 Wh. I can't attribute it 100% to the bigger battery but the handling clearly suffers big time apart from really chunky straight line stuff maybe. Makes it way less intuitive and more tiresome to ride.
those were the days, first 504W battery in trail, come back to the car, swap out the second battery in 30 seconds and then do another...
those were the days, first 504W battery in trail, come back to the car, swap out the second battery in 30 seconds and then do another few laps in boost. The bikes were light but ugly with the external batteries.
I still have one of the old 27.5 Commencal Metas with the 504wh battery (wife's bike) It may not be pretty but that bike is so fun.
I'm on a last gen Shimano motor Bullit, so I can swap batteries, but I see the writing on the wall that most brands are going to internal batteries to make the bikes look better. (which is fine with me, looks do matter!)
What's interesting about this debate is the biggest players, Trek and Specialized haven't ever done integrated batteries on their full power eebs. I really like what Amflow did where they just made a version with a swappable battery that looks like an ebike and a version with an integrated battery that looks amazing. Let the consumer decide what suits their needs.
those were the days, first 504W battery in trail, come back to the car, swap out the second battery in 30 seconds and then do another...
those were the days, first 504W battery in trail, come back to the car, swap out the second battery in 30 seconds and then do another few laps in boost. The bikes were light but ugly with the external batteries.
Removable batteries are bound to make a comeback right? Eventually downtubes won’t need to get any skinnier so the requisite wall thickness won’t come with an aesthetic cost
Curious, has anyone got there hands on an orbea wild lt yet? I've seen two demo bikes and a handful for sale so they must be out there. I've got till January to wait so interested to see if any 1st hand experiences exist.
Curious, has anyone got there hands on an orbea wild lt yet? I've seen two demo bikes and a handful for sale so they must be...
Curious, has anyone got there hands on an orbea wild lt yet? I've seen two demo bikes and a handful for sale so they must be out there. I've got till January to wait so interested to see if any 1st hand experiences exist.
Ordered a H20 29 build back in July from an online retailer, they were supposed to be on their books for this month. Was actually about to give them a call to see if they have any updated ETA.
Lame if true but I could totally see Avinoxt trying to tell me what I shouId do on a ride given their press release mansplaining their...
Lame if true but I could totally see Avinoxt trying to tell me what I shouId do on a ride given their press release mansplaining their view on higher power motors.
I suppose I could fast charge my Avinox bike on my Cybertruck…erm DJI camp battery between laps but I grab the eeb for max laps in minimum time. Waiting an hour to charge back up during a ride is pretty wack even if you’re not rushing home to help take care of kids.
An upshot of this is that hopefully it will be the end of brands only offering 600wh only on integrated battery frames. 600wh is not nearly enough to have a full park day self shuttling and certainly isn’t enough for lazy people to ride 1500wh motors in boost on short rides.
I have a 600wh in frame battery with a 250w range extender on my bike, which makes 750w of max power. I have zero issues soft...
I have a 600wh in frame battery with a 250w range extender on my bike, which makes 750w of max power. I have zero issues soft pedaling my way into 4,500' elevation gain rides in boost mode. I also do plenty of epic 7,500' elevation gain rides in mid power modes on this bike. Lamenting 600wh internal frame batteries is quite frankly lame and imo based on a desire for more power then is necessary or laziness. 200wh doesn't make or break any rides I want to do and 3lbs of weight on the bike not up high is a fair trade off... but also doesn't make a break a ride I want to do.
The weight difference between a Bosch 600wh and 800wh internal battery is close to 1.3lbs. Is your 3lbs referring to the weight of the range extender...
The weight difference between a Bosch 600wh and 800wh internal battery is close to 1.3lbs. Is your 3lbs referring to the weight of the range extender? If so that just proves my point that 800wh internal needs to be an option. The handling characteristics of adding 1.3 lbs is not noticeable to your average rider and I think even I could fail a blind test guessing if the bike has a 600wh and 800wh internal battery on handling alone. Quarter HP did some interesting testing on adding weight higher up and even hypothesized Fox intentionally added weight to the top of the Podium: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHuEfR3pyIg
My desire for more range isn't for laziness or more power. I ride my EP8 detuned to 60nm in Eco and Trail. It's the desire for a true park day on the ebike without the shuttle truck or chairlift, which is 8,000ft or more. We have steep 1,500ft climbs where I ride.
For the most part, batteries are 1-1.2lbs per 100wh and that rings true for the bosch lineup. The 800wh is 2.1lbs heavier and the range extender is 3.3lbs heavier... again, in line with the 1-1.2lbs per 100wh. Since the 600+250 is 850wh and the 800wh is both less wh and less packaging, it's going to weigh less.
We also have steep (and long) climbs where I ride and as mentioned I do a lot of big days on the bike. 8k of elevation gain is a glass ceiling with ebikes atm from my perspective. There is no drive unit on the market that will do that with a wattage output greater then 250-300 nominal and right now the power output, efficiency and overall design is not focusing on that use case. Said another way, even with a 1000wh battery setup, you will still be operating in a very low power mode. It is a very fringe use case that most of the market that uses these will not be shopping for and those that are shopping for that, will only do that a handful of times a month at most. Fwiw, I have done this with a cx5 bosch with a 600wh internal, and 2 - 250wh range extenders and I just carry one in a backpack.
More often, these bikes get used for rides in the 3,000-5,000 range and to that end, utilizing a smaller internal battery with a range extender to cover those uses cases makes sense. You're optimizing for the majority of the usage of that vehicle. I would rather carry the appropriate amount of weight/battery for what I'm doing then carry extra for nothing... but everyone has their own use case and believes. I just take exception when I see people speaking as if their use case should be the defining factor in design, and that any oem/brand/drive unit mfg is stupid or made a mistake in doing something different. That's just a myopic approach to the problem.
All of that nonesense being said... I do think it's important that consumers have choice. I prefer the 600+250wh setup for my usage... but it would be nice for the consumer to be able to work with their IBD to purchase the same bike with either battery size. For me, I purchase my ebikes based off of how they perform when the motor is off (downhill) and I check the boxes on drive unit reliability, support, power/battery configuration in that order. I can live with either approach and see the merits of either, but I do have preferences and for me that is the range extender to fit the biggest rides I do more often and an internal that fits the rides on the shorter end of the spectrum. I find a big difference in bikes that weigh 48lbs, vs bikes that weigh 52lbs... I only want to ride a 52lb bike when I have to.
Swap-able batteries. Mine from 2019 was still internal. Shimano EP8. Scott e-genius. Lovely oversized downtube. Almost looked futuristic. Like most Scott's
Other bros on the early adopter program figured out the same. We'd randomly catch up at the car parking area. A little battery chat, snacky snack, then on for s'more. One guy ditched the allen bolt and just went straight to taping the battery frame guard thingy in place. And the batteries back then weren't as good as they are now. or motors, FWIW. So we'll just say efficiency has gotten better.
I'm not such a fan of non-swappable designs. I'm pretty sure my Ibis with Bosch could. But like I say, don't really need it or need to. But batteries do have a life span. No matter how well you take care. I'd look under the frame to see how the battery goes in/out and if buying an extra is an option before I'd invest in a new bike and all. Or even replacement? Is there a plan for that? My extra battery for the EP8/Scott was $600. Way back then.
those were the days, first 504W battery in trail, come back to the car, swap out the second battery in 30 seconds and then do another...
those were the days, first 504W battery in trail, come back to the car, swap out the second battery in 30 seconds and then do another few laps in boost. The bikes were light but ugly with the external batteries.
I still have one of the old 27.5 Commencal Metas with the 504wh battery (wife's bike) It may not be pretty but that bike is so...
I still have one of the old 27.5 Commencal Metas with the 504wh battery (wife's bike) It may not be pretty but that bike is so fun.
I'm on a last gen Shimano motor Bullit, so I can swap batteries, but I see the writing on the wall that most brands are going to internal batteries to make the bikes look better. (which is fine with me, looks do matter!)
What's interesting about this debate is the biggest players, Trek and Specialized haven't ever done integrated batteries on their full power eebs. I really like what Amflow did where they just made a version with a swappable battery that looks like an ebike and a version with an integrated battery that looks amazing. Let the consumer decide what suits their needs.
Can you guys swap out batteries?On my old school 2019 600W bike, I had 2 batteries. Swap was quick. On my new 750W bike. Bah. If I...
Can you guys swap out batteries?
On my old school 2019 600W bike, I had 2 batteries. Swap was quick.
On my new 750W bike. Bah. If I run out of juice, then that's a sign from the juice gods that it's hot tub time machine....time.
Yes, even with big batteries I would still opt for a removable battery, the few times a year I have a full day to ride, running 2-3 batteries in a row is litteraly an all-time ride. As an example, one weekend I did a shuttle day the Saturday and a huge ebike day the next, I got more done and generally enjoyed every minute of t
those were the days, first 504W battery in trail, come back to the car, swap out the second battery in 30 seconds and then do another...
those were the days, first 504W battery in trail, come back to the car, swap out the second battery in 30 seconds and then do another few laps in boost. The bikes were light but ugly with the external batteries.
I still have one of the old 27.5 Commencal Metas with the 504wh battery (wife's bike) It may not be pretty but that bike is so...
I still have one of the old 27.5 Commencal Metas with the 504wh battery (wife's bike) It may not be pretty but that bike is so fun.
I'm on a last gen Shimano motor Bullit, so I can swap batteries, but I see the writing on the wall that most brands are going to internal batteries to make the bikes look better. (which is fine with me, looks do matter!)
What's interesting about this debate is the biggest players, Trek and Specialized haven't ever done integrated batteries on their full power eebs. I really like what Amflow did where they just made a version with a swappable battery that looks like an ebike and a version with an integrated battery that looks amazing. Let the consumer decide what suits their needs.
I had an EP8 bike with removable 630 battery (Yeti 160e) that was a sub-30 second swap. I was able to carry a Shimano 630 battery in a Osprey Raptor 14 pack without much issue. I've been on multiple rides where a second battery was carried and used and I know of a ride group that pretty much requires a second battery or range extender at minimum to finish their big back country loops. Not having range anxiety when committed to a big lap makes for a much more enjoyable experience.
I can very much see the use case for a removable battery. Hell it was so easy to remove the battery I'd pull it out just to make lifting the bike into my work stand easier. I get the advantages of a more integrated setup but there is still value to a quick swap one as well.
I went from hot swappable batteries in a mondraker crafty, which I had two 600wh's for, to a fixed 600wh in my e-dreadnought.
I'd take the fixed 600wh all day, every day.
With fast charging, I run laps in the morning, stop for lunch and charge, and run laps until evening. My body gives up before I run out of battery power.
The hot swappable batteries were nice, but I needed a break after 1400m of descending anyways. It was rare that I'd just swap batteries and yeet myself straight back up the mountain. And the downsides were there. Heavier due to the swapping mechanism/big hole in the frame requiring reinforcement, looked like I was smuggling dimensional lumber in the downtube, higher mounting of the battery because of locking mechanism, battery itself was heavier due to need for a robust case. All things equal, swappable batteries would be great. But they do come with design compromises to the bike itself.
Curious, has anyone got there hands on an orbea wild lt yet? I've seen two demo bikes and a handful for sale so they must be...
Curious, has anyone got there hands on an orbea wild lt yet? I've seen two demo bikes and a handful for sale so they must be out there. I've got till January to wait so interested to see if any 1st hand experiences exist.
I just ordered one from lost co on Wednesday. Set to be here this coming Wednesday. I have been getting the ebike itch after holding out for a very long time. Was shopping around and saw they had the low end aluminum model in my size in mullet ready to ship and it’s kinda said fuck it and ordered it on a whim. Kinda glad i did cause looks like it was the last one they had in any size of that model.
Lame if true but I could totally see Avinoxt trying to tell me what I shouId do on a ride given their press release mansplaining their view on higher power motors.
I suppose I could fast charge my Avinox bike on my Cybertruck…erm DJI camp battery between laps but I grab the eeb for max laps in minimum time. Waiting an hour to charge back up during a ride is pretty wack even if you’re not rushing home to help take care of kids.
An upshot of this is that hopefully it will be the end of brands only offering 600wh only on integrated battery frames. 600wh is not nearly enough to have a full park day self shuttling and certainly isn’t enough for lazy people to ride 1500wh motors in boost on short rides.
I have a 600wh in frame battery with a 250w range extender on my bike, which makes 750w of max power. I have zero issues soft pedaling my way into 4,500' elevation gain rides in boost mode. I also do plenty of epic 7,500' elevation gain rides in mid power modes on this bike. Lamenting 600wh internal frame batteries is quite frankly lame and imo based on a desire for more power then is necessary or laziness. 200wh doesn't make or break any rides I want to do and 3lbs of weight on the bike not up high is a fair trade off... but also doesn't make a break a ride I want to do.
Can you guys swap out batteries?
On my old school 2019 600W bike, I had 2 batteries. Swap was quick.
On my new 750W bike. Bah. If I run out of juice, then that's a sign from the juice gods that it's hot tub time machine....time.
those were the days, first 504W battery in trail, come back to the car, swap out the second battery in 30 seconds and then do another few laps in boost. The bikes were light but ugly with the external batteries.
The weight difference between a Bosch 600wh and 800wh internal battery is close to 1.3lbs. Is your 3lbs referring to the weight of the range extender? If so that just proves my point that 800wh internal needs to be an option. The handling characteristics of adding 1.3 lbs is not noticeable to your average rider and I think even I could fail a blind test guessing if the bike has a 600wh and 800wh internal battery on handling alone. Quarter HP did some interesting testing on adding weight higher up and even hypothesized Fox intentionally added weight to the top of the Podium: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHuEfR3pyIg
My desire for more range isn't for laziness or more power. I ride my EP8 detuned to 60nm in Eco and Trail. It's the desire for a true park day on the ebike without the shuttle truck or chairlift, which is 8,000ft or more. We have steep 1,500ft climbs where I ride.
I'd wish we had a manufacturer that had an approach to blend in an external battery into a light frame with visual carbon blends or something that doesn't make the bike look that ugly. Personally I don't worry much about looks but I think to stay in business brands have to check that box somehow. Lapierre was a bit too radical and only offered one battery size. But a modular apporach with light external batteries could create some really light and quickly adaptable full power emtbs with really good handling.
I just had a crash out of nowhere while riding the 700 Wh battery instead of the 500 Wh. I can't attribute it 100% to the bigger battery but the handling clearly suffers big time apart from really chunky straight line stuff maybe. Makes it way less intuitive and more tiresome to ride.
I still have one of the old 27.5 Commencal Metas with the 504wh battery (wife's bike) It may not be pretty but that bike is so fun.
I'm on a last gen Shimano motor Bullit, so I can swap batteries, but I see the writing on the wall that most brands are going to internal batteries to make the bikes look better. (which is fine with me, looks do matter!)
What's interesting about this debate is the biggest players, Trek and Specialized haven't ever done integrated batteries on their full power eebs. I really like what Amflow did where they just made a version with a swappable battery that looks like an ebike and a version with an integrated battery that looks amazing. Let the consumer decide what suits their needs.
How about we design a mount where a Dewalt power tool battery can slide in as a range extender?
Has anyone ever tried Biomotal? The strap on battery isn’t pretty but they have always intrigued me. Bimotal
I belive 0% that a motor unit that small and light is "750 watts "
A friend of mine has used one... He was pretty impressed give the small size of it..
Removable batteries are bound to make a comeback right? Eventually downtubes won’t need to get any skinnier so the requisite wall thickness won’t come with an aesthetic cost
Curious, has anyone got there hands on an orbea wild lt yet? I've seen two demo bikes and a handful for sale so they must be out there. I've got till January to wait so interested to see if any 1st hand experiences exist.
Ordered a H20 29 build back in July from an online retailer, they were supposed to be on their books for this month. Was actually about to give them a call to see if they have any updated ETA.
For the most part, batteries are 1-1.2lbs per 100wh and that rings true for the bosch lineup. The 800wh is 2.1lbs heavier and the range extender is 3.3lbs heavier... again, in line with the 1-1.2lbs per 100wh. Since the 600+250 is 850wh and the 800wh is both less wh and less packaging, it's going to weigh less.
We also have steep (and long) climbs where I ride and as mentioned I do a lot of big days on the bike. 8k of elevation gain is a glass ceiling with ebikes atm from my perspective. There is no drive unit on the market that will do that with a wattage output greater then 250-300 nominal and right now the power output, efficiency and overall design is not focusing on that use case. Said another way, even with a 1000wh battery setup, you will still be operating in a very low power mode. It is a very fringe use case that most of the market that uses these will not be shopping for and those that are shopping for that, will only do that a handful of times a month at most. Fwiw, I have done this with a cx5 bosch with a 600wh internal, and 2 - 250wh range extenders and I just carry one in a backpack.
More often, these bikes get used for rides in the 3,000-5,000 range and to that end, utilizing a smaller internal battery with a range extender to cover those uses cases makes sense. You're optimizing for the majority of the usage of that vehicle. I would rather carry the appropriate amount of weight/battery for what I'm doing then carry extra for nothing... but everyone has their own use case and believes. I just take exception when I see people speaking as if their use case should be the defining factor in design, and that any oem/brand/drive unit mfg is stupid or made a mistake in doing something different. That's just a myopic approach to the problem.
All of that nonesense being said... I do think it's important that consumers have choice. I prefer the 600+250wh setup for my usage... but it would be nice for the consumer to be able to work with their IBD to purchase the same bike with either battery size. For me, I purchase my ebikes based off of how they perform when the motor is off (downhill) and I check the boxes on drive unit reliability, support, power/battery configuration in that order. I can live with either approach and see the merits of either, but I do have preferences and for me that is the range extender to fit the biggest rides I do more often and an internal that fits the rides on the shorter end of the spectrum. I find a big difference in bikes that weigh 48lbs, vs bikes that weigh 52lbs... I only want to ride a 52lb bike when I have to.
warning. much profanity. new south park lol
Swap-able batteries. Mine from 2019 was still internal. Shimano EP8. Scott e-genius. Lovely oversized downtube. Almost looked futuristic. Like most Scott's
Other bros on the early adopter program figured out the same. We'd randomly catch up at the car parking area. A little battery chat, snacky snack, then on for s'more. One guy ditched the allen bolt and just went straight to taping the battery frame guard thingy in place. And the batteries back then weren't as good as they are now. or motors, FWIW. So we'll just say efficiency has gotten better.
I'm not such a fan of non-swappable designs. I'm pretty sure my Ibis with Bosch could. But like I say, don't really need it or need to. But batteries do have a life span. No matter how well you take care. I'd look under the frame to see how the battery goes in/out and if buying an extra is an option before I'd invest in a new bike and all. Or even replacement? Is there a plan for that? My extra battery for the EP8/Scott was $600. Way back then.
Yes, even with big batteries I would still opt for a removable battery, the few times a year I have a full day to ride, running 2-3 batteries in a row is litteraly an all-time ride. As an example, one weekend I did a shuttle day the Saturday and a huge ebike day the next, I got more done and generally enjoyed every minute of t
he ebike day more than the shuttle day:
Its looking better and better. External batteries, hoses and cables are so much better
I had an EP8 bike with removable 630 battery (Yeti 160e) that was a sub-30 second swap. I was able to carry a Shimano 630 battery in a Osprey Raptor 14 pack without much issue. I've been on multiple rides where a second battery was carried and used and I know of a ride group that pretty much requires a second battery or range extender at minimum to finish their big back country loops. Not having range anxiety when committed to a big lap makes for a much more enjoyable experience.
I can very much see the use case for a removable battery. Hell it was so easy to remove the battery I'd pull it out just to make lifting the bike into my work stand easier. I get the advantages of a more integrated setup but there is still value to a quick swap one as well.
I went from hot swappable batteries in a mondraker crafty, which I had two 600wh's for, to a fixed 600wh in my e-dreadnought.
I'd take the fixed 600wh all day, every day.
With fast charging, I run laps in the morning, stop for lunch and charge, and run laps until evening. My body gives up before I run out of battery power.
The hot swappable batteries were nice, but I needed a break after 1400m of descending anyways. It was rare that I'd just swap batteries and yeet myself straight back up the mountain. And the downsides were there. Heavier due to the swapping mechanism/big hole in the frame requiring reinforcement, looked like I was smuggling dimensional lumber in the downtube, higher mounting of the battery because of locking mechanism, battery itself was heavier due to need for a robust case. All things equal, swappable batteries would be great. But they do come with design compromises to the bike itself.
I just ordered one from lost co on Wednesday. Set to be here this coming Wednesday. I have been getting the ebike itch after holding out for a very long time. Was shopping around and saw they had the low end aluminum model in my size in mullet ready to ship and it’s kinda said fuck it and ordered it on a whim. Kinda glad i did cause looks like it was the last one they had in any size of that model.
Will report back next week.
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