I'll emphasize this question. I've never understood what's so special about the DJI motor other than ridiculous levels of power and assist, especially compared to a...
I'll emphasize this question. I've never understood what's so special about the DJI motor other than ridiculous levels of power and assist, especially compared to a TQ motor. The DJI motor doesn't seem to have some magical battery. The efficiency doesn't seem to be that much, if any, better. It's always seemed to me that a lot of the form factor praise is just a smokescreen for people who want their crank to primarily function as a throttle.
Remember, there are alot of people who are what I've heard referred to as "Speadsheet Shoppers".. And with them, bigger is better. More watts, more better.. Bigger battery, better.. Avinox has done a good job at delivering more without a huge weight penalty. And from what I've heard, the new motor has done a good job addressing issues with the first motor. Refer to the podcast with Jeff and Robot. They are a tech company addressing things the way a tech company does.
But, with all that said, I'm really interested in the rumors of a full power TQ motor.. Even if it isn't Avinox levels of power, if it's close to the size of the current motors, it could be a game changer.
I am not an emtb owner yet but I will be at some point. I've ridden several gen's of Levo's, some SC offerings, some Pivot offerings, and some Shimano equipped emtb's.
The thing that was remarkable to me about the Avinox bike I recently took for a very short spin was the small size of the motor, the very quiet operation, and the slim downtube profile. The combo of the slim downtube and the small motor are impressive in their stealthiness.
I am excited to see what the new TQ system looks like.
It weighs less and has more power. As smooth or smoother than the competition (partially due to its much higher wheel polling). Batteries also have class leading power to weight density.
But clearly they are selling well during the worst, most painful era the industry has ever seen because of "spreadsheet shoppers".
The M2S is a little bit better than a Bosch on virtually every aspect: weight, size, noise, efficiency, software, overall package (screen, controllers, lights), price of the bikes.
But much more importantly, just look at the bikes, take any Bosch bike like the commencal, crestline, orbea, then compare their Avinox equivalent, they are just so much better looking.
On top of that, a lot of brands have released sub-5k ebikes with the M2, some are even carbon.
There is also the fact that they are releasing things much much faster than the other brands.
This is coming from a happy Bosch owner living in 25km/h limited europe.
The M2S is a little bit better than a Bosch on virtually every aspect: weight, size, noise, efficiency, software, overall package (screen, controllers, lights), price of...
The M2S is a little bit better than a Bosch on virtually every aspect: weight, size, noise, efficiency, software, overall package (screen, controllers, lights), price of the bikes.
But much more importantly, just look at the bikes, take any Bosch bike like the commencal, crestline, orbea, then compare their Avinox equivalent, they are just so much better looking.
On top of that, a lot of brands have released sub-5k ebikes with the M2, some are even carbon.
There is also the fact that they are releasing things much much faster than the other brands.
This is coming from a happy Bosch owner living in 25km/h limited europe.
A clean sweep if we knew they are durable , parts were available , and motor service centers worked on them
A clean sweep if we knew they are durable , parts were available , and motor service centers worked on them
They have sold so many, 30,000 in 2025 supposedly. If they were as bad as the second and third generation Levo we would’ve heard by now. People love to complain about stuff breaking.
They have sold so many, 30,000 in 2025 supposedly. If they were as bad as the second and third generation Levo we would’ve heard by now...
They have sold so many, 30,000 in 2025 supposedly. If they were as bad as the second and third generation Levo we would’ve heard by now. People love to complain about stuff breaking.
Haa they do love to complain indeed. I've heard about a backlog of current motors being released. I wasnt aware the first gen had 30k units sold. I've only seen a few failure complaints and a few warrantee complaints. Minimal compared to shimano and brose. They do seem to update even the current m2s' with every new batch as well. More and more im considering one. Hopefully hear more good reports on warrantee and/or service. I want a longer travel eeb and that slim downtube for a triple clamp fork, so i'm definitely following avinox
I'll emphasize this question. I've never understood what's so special about the DJI motor other than ridiculous levels of power and assist, especially compared to a...
I'll emphasize this question. I've never understood what's so special about the DJI motor other than ridiculous levels of power and assist, especially compared to a TQ motor. The DJI motor doesn't seem to have some magical battery. The efficiency doesn't seem to be that much, if any, better. It's always seemed to me that a lot of the form factor praise is just a smokescreen for people who want their crank to primarily function as a throttle.
Currently there is a material difference in traction control due to the number of magnets in the wheel sensor. Avinox also leads with 3rd party integration...
Currently there is a material difference in traction control due to the number of magnets in the wheel sensor. Avinox also leads with 3rd party integration such as heart rate controlled assist and the whole system is cleaner in general with wireless remotes and a really solid touch screen display.
First, it's true, I've never even ridden an Avinox bike. My ego has no need to be 'right' about the Bosch, but I did choose what I considered the best bike with a great motor system. I would have been fine with an Avinox as well. I think the current and likely the future TQ motors are the top product honestly.
The M1 rattled, ate up too much battery (inefficiency was addressed with the M2), and yah the motor system was 1# lighter than the Bosch, but once you add the needed chain ring protection to the Avinox they are within grams of each other (my CXR is actually lighter than an Avinox with a bash guard added, but 50 grams does not matter here), and frankly motor weight is the one place where it might actually be an advantage to be heavier.
Also, it's undeniable that the long skinny Avinox battery has a significant negative effect on handling. Literally every single reviewer and person that has swapped batteries on an Avinox has stated so. So, people are clearly choosing a skinny downtube over handling. And frankly it's an optical illusion, from the top the downtube is as wide as the Bosch.
Regarding the second post, this is just factually untrue. I don't even know all of the crap my Bosch CXR/ Kiox 400 does but here are a few things off the top of my head: HR monitoring, it does have a wireless remote, walk function, it has Nav on the screen and if allowed auto activates and reports to my Strava account, all sorts of adjustable parameters including overrun and more coming, auto shifting with Shimano & TRP, auto chain slack removing/ shifting when pointed DH with any drivetrain (even cabled), jump/ manual/ stoppie reporting, port for hardwired headlight, ABS, it has numerous ports for existing and future products such as hardwired dropper posts, theft protection (my bike doesn't power on unless my phone is near), and about 10 other features I don't care about.
The point about the Avinox reluctor ring is also complete horsesh*t, once again. It's a wives' tale that has been posted so much but it's not true. This is a step backwards, Bosch is monitoring wheel speed thousands of times per rotation in the motor, not just 42x/ rotation or whatever. Avinox's solution requires an extra in frame wire, sensor, and has LESS fidelity. The rear wheel magnet on the Bosch is only for max speed verification because people can alter gearing which the built-in sensor would not know about because it's tracking this info at the crank spindle.
People think that Avinox has some sort of TC, they don't. They have poor torque response due to tuning and the lack of fidelity of wheel speed and this feels like TC because the motor is not considered responsive. This is exactly why Orbea increased sensitivity something like 400%! To attempt to get a 'Bosch' feel which is more like a bike. When you stand on the cranks on an uphill slow turn, the e-bike should move smoothly but strongly, just like your bike does.
The funny thing is how many people raved about the 'TC' on the Avinox and then the Orbea RS tune is released, and all of the sudden reviewers start saying 'yah, been trying to get the Avinox to be more responsive all along.' I swear, you can't make this stuff up.
Maybe there is some slight difference in motor behavior that I would prefer if I rode an Avinox, but guess what? I don't care. That is such a small difference as to not be a factor when considering reliability, serviceability, rattle, future proofing, center of gravity, etc.
How many updates has the M1 received in the last 3 years? I don't think any. Compare that to the Bosch with continued refinements and features being offered.
Yah, I'll stick with the Bosch probably until the TQ120 is ready in a Yeti.
First, it's true, I've never even ridden an Avinox bike. My ego has no need to be 'right' about the Bosch, but I did choose what...
First, it's true, I've never even ridden an Avinox bike. My ego has no need to be 'right' about the Bosch, but I did choose what I considered the best bike with a great motor system. I would have been fine with an Avinox as well. I think the current and likely the future TQ motors are the top product honestly.
The M1 rattled, ate up too much battery (inefficiency was addressed with the M2), and yah the motor system was 1# lighter than the Bosch, but once you add the needed chain ring protection to the Avinox they are within grams of each other (my CXR is actually lighter than an Avinox with a bash guard added, but 50 grams does not matter here), and frankly motor weight is the one place where it might actually be an advantage to be heavier.
Also, it's undeniable that the long skinny Avinox battery has a significant negative effect on handling. Literally every single reviewer and person that has swapped batteries on an Avinox has stated so. So, people are clearly choosing a skinny downtube over handling. And frankly it's an optical illusion, from the top the downtube is as wide as the Bosch.
Regarding the second post, this is just factually untrue. I don't even know all of the crap my Bosch CXR/ Kiox 400 does but here are a few things off the top of my head: HR monitoring, it does have a wireless remote, walk function, it has Nav on the screen and if allowed auto activates and reports to my Strava account, all sorts of adjustable parameters including overrun and more coming, auto shifting with Shimano & TRP, auto chain slack removing/ shifting when pointed DH with any drivetrain (even cabled), jump/ manual/ stoppie reporting, port for hardwired headlight, ABS, it has numerous ports for existing and future products such as hardwired dropper posts, theft protection (my bike doesn't power on unless my phone is near), and about 10 other features I don't care about.
The point about the Avinox reluctor ring is also complete horsesh*t, once again. It's a wives' tale that has been posted so much but it's not true. This is a step backwards, Bosch is monitoring wheel speed thousands of times per rotation in the motor, not just 42x/ rotation or whatever. Avinox's solution requires an extra in frame wire, sensor, and has LESS fidelity. The rear wheel magnet on the Bosch is only for max speed verification because people can alter gearing which the built-in sensor would not know about because it's tracking this info at the crank spindle.
People think that Avinox has some sort of TC, they don't. They have poor torque response due to tuning and the lack of fidelity of wheel speed and this feels like TC because the motor is not considered responsive. This is exactly why Orbea increased sensitivity something like 400%! To attempt to get a 'Bosch' feel which is more like a bike. When you stand on the cranks on an uphill slow turn, the e-bike should move smoothly but strongly, just like your bike does.
The funny thing is how many people raved about the 'TC' on the Avinox and then the Orbea RS tune is released, and all of the sudden reviewers start saying 'yah, been trying to get the Avinox to be more responsive all along.' I swear, you can't make this stuff up.
Maybe there is some slight difference in motor behavior that I would prefer if I rode an Avinox, but guess what? I don't care. That is such a small difference as to not be a factor when considering reliability, serviceability, rattle, future proofing, center of gravity, etc.
How many updates has the M1 received in the last 3 years? I don't think any. Compare that to the Bosch with continued refinements and features being offered.
Yah, I'll stick with the Bosch probably until the TQ120 is ready in a Yeti.
Bosch does not have heart rate controlled assist yet. You can integrate and see your heart rate but having the assist automatically adjust to your heart rate in real time is still exclusive to Avinox. If you’re using an ebike as a training tool, that is undeniably very enticing.
So far all the criticism of Avinox in this thread has been from people that haven’t spent any time on bikes equipped with it.
I’ve drafted numerous responses as someone who owns, rides and sells Avinox. But its just not worth it, the cognitive dissonance in here is ridiculous. Some people are just committed to hating it.
We have just sold our last Fazua (thankfully) and sell a good of Bosch (it is still our shop preference) too. They are doing things completely legitimately. But they’d be doing a lot better if they didn’t have such a crazy high buy in and weren’t trying to hold back and stifle development.
Specialized are in a weird place and keep releasing bikes that no one asked for (in the UK at least), so they’re really hard to sell.
TQ is good but no one wants an SL because Avinox equipped bikes don’t weigh much more. Who knows if this TQ120 will actually live up to the hype… it won’t do much though as so few brands use it.
First, it's true, I've never even ridden an Avinox bike. My ego has no need to be 'right' about the Bosch, but I did choose what...
First, it's true, I've never even ridden an Avinox bike. My ego has no need to be 'right' about the Bosch, but I did choose what I considered the best bike with a great motor system. I would have been fine with an Avinox as well. I think the current and likely the future TQ motors are the top product honestly.
The M1 rattled, ate up too much battery (inefficiency was addressed with the M2), and yah the motor system was 1# lighter than the Bosch, but once you add the needed chain ring protection to the Avinox they are within grams of each other (my CXR is actually lighter than an Avinox with a bash guard added, but 50 grams does not matter here), and frankly motor weight is the one place where it might actually be an advantage to be heavier.
Also, it's undeniable that the long skinny Avinox battery has a significant negative effect on handling. Literally every single reviewer and person that has swapped batteries on an Avinox has stated so. So, people are clearly choosing a skinny downtube over handling. And frankly it's an optical illusion, from the top the downtube is as wide as the Bosch.
Regarding the second post, this is just factually untrue. I don't even know all of the crap my Bosch CXR/ Kiox 400 does but here are a few things off the top of my head: HR monitoring, it does have a wireless remote, walk function, it has Nav on the screen and if allowed auto activates and reports to my Strava account, all sorts of adjustable parameters including overrun and more coming, auto shifting with Shimano & TRP, auto chain slack removing/ shifting when pointed DH with any drivetrain (even cabled), jump/ manual/ stoppie reporting, port for hardwired headlight, ABS, it has numerous ports for existing and future products such as hardwired dropper posts, theft protection (my bike doesn't power on unless my phone is near), and about 10 other features I don't care about.
The point about the Avinox reluctor ring is also complete horsesh*t, once again. It's a wives' tale that has been posted so much but it's not true. This is a step backwards, Bosch is monitoring wheel speed thousands of times per rotation in the motor, not just 42x/ rotation or whatever. Avinox's solution requires an extra in frame wire, sensor, and has LESS fidelity. The rear wheel magnet on the Bosch is only for max speed verification because people can alter gearing which the built-in sensor would not know about because it's tracking this info at the crank spindle.
People think that Avinox has some sort of TC, they don't. They have poor torque response due to tuning and the lack of fidelity of wheel speed and this feels like TC because the motor is not considered responsive. This is exactly why Orbea increased sensitivity something like 400%! To attempt to get a 'Bosch' feel which is more like a bike. When you stand on the cranks on an uphill slow turn, the e-bike should move smoothly but strongly, just like your bike does.
The funny thing is how many people raved about the 'TC' on the Avinox and then the Orbea RS tune is released, and all of the sudden reviewers start saying 'yah, been trying to get the Avinox to be more responsive all along.' I swear, you can't make this stuff up.
Maybe there is some slight difference in motor behavior that I would prefer if I rode an Avinox, but guess what? I don't care. That is such a small difference as to not be a factor when considering reliability, serviceability, rattle, future proofing, center of gravity, etc.
How many updates has the M1 received in the last 3 years? I don't think any. Compare that to the Bosch with continued refinements and features being offered.
Yah, I'll stick with the Bosch probably until the TQ120 is ready in a Yeti.
Bosch does not have heart rate controlled assist yet. You can integrate and see your heart rate but having the assist automatically adjust to your heart...
Bosch does not have heart rate controlled assist yet. You can integrate and see your heart rate but having the assist automatically adjust to your heart rate in real time is still exclusive to Avinox. If you’re using an ebike as a training tool, that is undeniably very enticing.
Personally, it's a feature that I don't even remotely care about, but I understand it's something that some might care about, although I don't think that's the vital Demographic. The point remains the same however: that people constantly portray the Bosch as a dinosaur regarding features, but if one were to line up all of the features, it appears from where I'm sitting to be the class leader. Who the f*ck buys a bike to have even more connectivity, is beyond me, but I guess I'm old fashioned.
Here is what AI says on the topic however:
Yes — the Bosch CX (Performance Line CX) eMTB drive unit supports both heart rate monitoring and auto-adjusting riding modes through its smart system and eBike Flow app.
Heart rate monitoring The Bosch smart system (Kiox 300 or Kiox 500 displays) can now connect to a Bluetooth-enabled heart rate monitor — such as a chest strap, band, or smartwatch — and display your real-time heart rate on the eBike display while riding EMTB Forums+1. To set this up, you pair the device in the eBike Flow app under My eBike > eBike Pass > Components, and then add the heart rate screen in the display configuration. This allows you to track your workout intensity and performance in real time.
Auto-adjusting riding modes The CX supports Auto mode and other customizable riding modes that adapt motor support to your riding style and conditions EMTB Forums+1. You can set up to four favorite modes in the eBike Flow app, and the system can automatically adjust assistance levels based on your input and terrain. For example, the eMTB+ mode (available from July 2025) offers up to 400% motor support and adapts precisely to rider needs, especially on steep or technical trails Bosch Press. The Kiox display can also switch between relevant screens automatically depending on whether you’re climbing, descending, or riding flat Automotive World+1.
In summary:
Heart rate: Yes — Bluetooth-enabled HR devices can be paired and displayed on the Kiox screen.
Auto-adjust: Yes — Auto mode and eMTB+ mode adapt motor support to your riding, with terrain-aware dynamic displays.
If you want these features, ensure your CX eMTB is equipped with a Kiox display and has the latest eBike Flow app update installed.
Personally, it's a feature that I don't even remotely care about, but I understand it's something that some might care about, although I don't think that's...
Personally, it's a feature that I don't even remotely care about, but I understand it's something that some might care about, although I don't think that's the vital Demographic. The point remains the same however: that people constantly portray the Bosch as a dinosaur regarding features, but if one were to line up all of the features, it appears from where I'm sitting to be the class leader. Who the f*ck buys a bike to have even more connectivity, is beyond me, but I guess I'm old fashioned.
Here is what AI says on the topic however:
Yes — the Bosch CX (Performance Line CX) eMTB drive unit supports both heart rate monitoring and auto-adjusting riding modes through its smart system and eBike Flow app.
Heart rate monitoring The Bosch smart system (Kiox 300 or Kiox 500 displays) can now connect to a Bluetooth-enabled heart rate monitor — such as a chest strap, band, or smartwatch — and display your real-time heart rate on the eBike display while riding EMTB Forums+1. To set this up, you pair the device in the eBike Flow app under My eBike > eBike Pass > Components, and then add the heart rate screen in the display configuration. This allows you to track your workout intensity and performance in real time.
Auto-adjusting riding modes The CX supports Auto mode and other customizable riding modes that adapt motor support to your riding style and conditions EMTB Forums+1. You can set up to four favorite modes in the eBike Flow app, and the system can automatically adjust assistance levels based on your input and terrain. For example, the eMTB+ mode (available from July 2025) offers up to 400% motor support and adapts precisely to rider needs, especially on steep or technical trails Bosch Press. The Kiox display can also switch between relevant screens automatically depending on whether you’re climbing, descending, or riding flat Automotive World+1.
In summary:
Heart rate: Yes — Bluetooth-enabled HR devices can be paired and displayed on the Kiox screen.
Auto-adjust: Yes — Auto mode and eMTB+ mode adapt motor support to your riding, with terrain-aware dynamic displays.
If you want these features, ensure your CX eMTB is equipped with a Kiox display and has the latest eBike Flow app update installed.
If you read your own AI slop you’ll see that Bosch has Heart Rate Monitoring AND it has an Auto mode however nothing indicates any integration between the two. Auto mode does NOT monitor your heart rate in order to deliver power and stay in a targeted HR zone.
So far all the criticism of Avinox in this thread has been from people that haven’t spent any time on bikes equipped with it. I’ve drafted numerous...
So far all the criticism of Avinox in this thread has been from people that haven’t spent any time on bikes equipped with it.
I’ve drafted numerous responses as someone who owns, rides and sells Avinox. But its just not worth it, the cognitive dissonance in here is ridiculous. Some people are just committed to hating it.
We have just sold our last Fazua (thankfully) and sell a good of Bosch (it is still our shop preference) too. They are doing things completely legitimately. But they’d be doing a lot better if they didn’t have such a crazy high buy in and weren’t trying to hold back and stifle development.
Specialized are in a weird place and keep releasing bikes that no one asked for (in the UK at least), so they’re really hard to sell.
TQ is good but no one wants an SL because Avinox equipped bikes don’t weigh much more. Who knows if this TQ120 will actually live up to the hype… it won’t do much though as so few brands use it.
Oh and the M1 is not inefficient
DJI found improvements related to tight seals which were used on the M1 to reduce the amount of rattling that made it outside the motor cases. They even announced this as an improvement to the M2.
So, take it up with Avinox, not me.
The M1 is roughly equivalent to the also rattling Gen4 Bosch but with lower reliability. The M1 (like the Gen4) is totally functional but is already outdated.
I'm certain the Avinox rides great as many have said so. I don't need to ride it to agree with you. My points still remain regarding feature set, serviceability, rattles, etc. I mean I can see that it doesn't have chain ring protection, and I know how I ride. I can look up the actual weight and cost of the E13 bash ring for the Avinox. 'Just riding it' doesn't change this, or the other realities. That's before you get to the whole Class 1 argument, which the Avinox undeniably is not.
Personally, it's a feature that I don't even remotely care about, but I understand it's something that some might care about, although I don't think that's...
Personally, it's a feature that I don't even remotely care about, but I understand it's something that some might care about, although I don't think that's the vital Demographic. The point remains the same however: that people constantly portray the Bosch as a dinosaur regarding features, but if one were to line up all of the features, it appears from where I'm sitting to be the class leader. Who the f*ck buys a bike to have even more connectivity, is beyond me, but I guess I'm old fashioned.
Here is what AI says on the topic however:
Yes — the Bosch CX (Performance Line CX) eMTB drive unit supports both heart rate monitoring and auto-adjusting riding modes through its smart system and eBike Flow app.
Heart rate monitoring The Bosch smart system (Kiox 300 or Kiox 500 displays) can now connect to a Bluetooth-enabled heart rate monitor — such as a chest strap, band, or smartwatch — and display your real-time heart rate on the eBike display while riding EMTB Forums+1. To set this up, you pair the device in the eBike Flow app under My eBike > eBike Pass > Components, and then add the heart rate screen in the display configuration. This allows you to track your workout intensity and performance in real time.
Auto-adjusting riding modes The CX supports Auto mode and other customizable riding modes that adapt motor support to your riding style and conditions EMTB Forums+1. You can set up to four favorite modes in the eBike Flow app, and the system can automatically adjust assistance levels based on your input and terrain. For example, the eMTB+ mode (available from July 2025) offers up to 400% motor support and adapts precisely to rider needs, especially on steep or technical trails Bosch Press. The Kiox display can also switch between relevant screens automatically depending on whether you’re climbing, descending, or riding flat Automotive World+1.
In summary:
Heart rate: Yes — Bluetooth-enabled HR devices can be paired and displayed on the Kiox screen.
Auto-adjust: Yes — Auto mode and eMTB+ mode adapt motor support to your riding, with terrain-aware dynamic displays.
If you want these features, ensure your CX eMTB is equipped with a Kiox display and has the latest eBike Flow app update installed.
If you read your own AI slop you’ll see that Bosch has Heart Rate Monitoring AND it has an Auto mode however nothing indicates any integration...
If you read your own AI slop you’ll see that Bosch has Heart Rate Monitoring AND it has an Auto mode however nothing indicates any integration between the two. Auto mode does NOT monitor your heart rate in order to deliver power and stay in a targeted HR zone.
Well, I'm glad you found ONE item to discredit out of like 25. Good job. LOL
DJI found improvements related to tight seals which were used on the M1 to reduce the amount of rattling that made it outside the motor cases...
DJI found improvements related to tight seals which were used on the M1 to reduce the amount of rattling that made it outside the motor cases. They even announced this as an improvement to the M2.
So, take it up with Avinox, not me.
The M1 is roughly equivalent to the also rattling Gen4 Bosch but with lower reliability. The M1 (like the Gen4) is totally functional but is already outdated.
I'm certain the Avinox rides great as many have said so. I don't need to ride it to agree with you. My points still remain regarding feature set, serviceability, rattles, etc. I mean I can see that it doesn't have chain ring protection, and I know how I ride. I can look up the actual weight and cost of the E13 bash ring for the Avinox. 'Just riding it' doesn't change this, or the other realities. That's before you get to the whole Class 1 argument, which the Avinox undeniably is not.
Take what up with Avinox?
It was you that said the M1 wad inefficient. I just said from someone who actually has and uses one that it us not. The fact that the M2s is better is irrelevant… i mean why would they release a new version if it wasn’t better
They have sold so many, 30,000 in 2025 supposedly. If they were as bad as the second and third generation Levo we would’ve heard by now...
They have sold so many, 30,000 in 2025 supposedly. If they were as bad as the second and third generation Levo we would’ve heard by now. People love to complain about stuff breaking.
Just out of curiousity, where did you see or hear the 30k units in 2025 number?
They have sold so many, 30,000 in 2025 supposedly. If they were as bad as the second and third generation Levo we would’ve heard by now...
They have sold so many, 30,000 in 2025 supposedly. If they were as bad as the second and third generation Levo we would’ve heard by now. People love to complain about stuff breaking.
I don’t think it was ever confirmed. Given how many brands jumped in to offer a bike with their second gen system, roughly a year later, makes me think it must be at least possible.
DJI found improvements related to tight seals which were used on the M1 to reduce the amount of rattling that made it outside the motor cases...
DJI found improvements related to tight seals which were used on the M1 to reduce the amount of rattling that made it outside the motor cases. They even announced this as an improvement to the M2.
So, take it up with Avinox, not me.
The M1 is roughly equivalent to the also rattling Gen4 Bosch but with lower reliability. The M1 (like the Gen4) is totally functional but is already outdated.
I'm certain the Avinox rides great as many have said so. I don't need to ride it to agree with you. My points still remain regarding feature set, serviceability, rattles, etc. I mean I can see that it doesn't have chain ring protection, and I know how I ride. I can look up the actual weight and cost of the E13 bash ring for the Avinox. 'Just riding it' doesn't change this, or the other realities. That's before you get to the whole Class 1 argument, which the Avinox undeniably is not.
ffs, the same shit you are pulling over at emtbforums. the few extra watts of drag with the m1 were never ever in a region that would be noticable in range. stop spreading your nonsense.
and your nonsense about a chain ring protection system adding a pound:
ffs, the same shit you are pulling over at emtbforums. the few extra watts of drag with the m1 were never ever in a region that...
ffs, the same shit you are pulling over at emtbforums. the few extra watts of drag with the m1 were never ever in a region that would be noticable in range. stop spreading your nonsense.
and your nonsense about a chain ring protection system adding a pound:
ffs, the same shit you are pulling over at emtbforums. the few extra watts of drag with the m1 were never ever in a region that...
ffs, the same shit you are pulling over at emtbforums. the few extra watts of drag with the m1 were never ever in a region that would be noticable in range. stop spreading your nonsense.
and your nonsense about a chain ring protection system adding a pound:
I hope the Rogue chain ring protection holds up well; I generally like the design and it's sleek and minimalist. It's a bit absurd to me that so many of the brands using Avinox have foregone chain ring protection. Legit, the motor could be 100x better than a Bosch and it wouldn't matter w/o chainring protection for me as it would be useless for offroad riding.
But 2 obvious points:
That only works on the Rogue. But for any of the other Avinox powered bikes, the universal option is the 250 gram E13 bash ring. Which kind of looks terrible unfortunately and imo sort of ruins the main selling feature of the Avinox, sleekness.
The Rogue builds up into one of the heaviest Avinox bikes I've seen making your point moot. Your Rogue weighs 24.5kgs as I recall? My L Bosch Wild with DH tires, DH wheels, coil shock, G2 LT fork, 200mm AXS, electronic shifting, pedals, downtube protection, etc. weighs 22.1 kgs ready to ride for comparison, verified on 2 separate hanging luggage scales. If I built in into a trail bike, not what it's for obviously, it could weigh 20 kgs.
Agreed. Smooch it up, nerds. I created this thread to chat about e-bikes because the tech forum got sick of too much emtb talk. Now you two are having a pissing contest about nothing. Kiss and be friends or go battle it out in the emtbforums, not here.
Remember, there are alot of people who are what I've heard referred to as "Speadsheet Shoppers".. And with them, bigger is better. More watts, more better.. Bigger battery, better.. Avinox has done a good job at delivering more without a huge weight penalty. And from what I've heard, the new motor has done a good job addressing issues with the first motor. Refer to the podcast with Jeff and Robot. They are a tech company addressing things the way a tech company does.
But, with all that said, I'm really interested in the rumors of a full power TQ motor.. Even if it isn't Avinox levels of power, if it's close to the size of the current motors, it could be a game changer.
I am not an emtb owner yet but I will be at some point. I've ridden several gen's of Levo's, some SC offerings, some Pivot offerings, and some Shimano equipped emtb's.
The thing that was remarkable to me about the Avinox bike I recently took for a very short spin was the small size of the motor, the very quiet operation, and the slim downtube profile. The combo of the slim downtube and the small motor are impressive in their stealthiness.
I am excited to see what the new TQ system looks like.
It weighs less and has more power. As smooth or smoother than the competition (partially due to its much higher wheel polling). Batteries also have class leading power to weight density.
But clearly they are selling well during the worst, most painful era the industry has ever seen because of "spreadsheet shoppers".
This is coming from a happy Bosch owner living in 25km/h limited europe.
A clean sweep if we knew they are durable , parts were available , and motor service centers worked on them
They have sold so many, 30,000 in 2025 supposedly. If they were as bad as the second and third generation Levo we would’ve heard by now. People love to complain about stuff breaking.
Haa they do love to complain indeed. I've heard about a backlog of current motors being released. I wasnt aware the first gen had 30k units sold. I've only seen a few failure complaints and a few warrantee complaints. Minimal compared to shimano and brose. They do seem to update even the current m2s' with every new batch as well. More and more im considering one. Hopefully hear more good reports on warrantee and/or service. I want a longer travel eeb and that slim downtube for a triple clamp fork, so i'm definitely following avinox
First, it's true, I've never even ridden an Avinox bike. My ego has no need to be 'right' about the Bosch, but I did choose what I considered the best bike with a great motor system. I would have been fine with an Avinox as well. I think the current and likely the future TQ motors are the top product honestly.
The M1 rattled, ate up too much battery (inefficiency was addressed with the M2), and yah the motor system was 1# lighter than the Bosch, but once you add the needed chain ring protection to the Avinox they are within grams of each other (my CXR is actually lighter than an Avinox with a bash guard added, but 50 grams does not matter here), and frankly motor weight is the one place where it might actually be an advantage to be heavier.
Also, it's undeniable that the long skinny Avinox battery has a significant negative effect on handling. Literally every single reviewer and person that has swapped batteries on an Avinox has stated so. So, people are clearly choosing a skinny downtube over handling. And frankly it's an optical illusion, from the top the downtube is as wide as the Bosch.
Regarding the second post, this is just factually untrue. I don't even know all of the crap my Bosch CXR/ Kiox 400 does but here are a few things off the top of my head: HR monitoring, it does have a wireless remote, walk function, it has Nav on the screen and if allowed auto activates and reports to my Strava account, all sorts of adjustable parameters including overrun and more coming, auto shifting with Shimano & TRP, auto chain slack removing/ shifting when pointed DH with any drivetrain (even cabled), jump/ manual/ stoppie reporting, port for hardwired headlight, ABS, it has numerous ports for existing and future products such as hardwired dropper posts, theft protection (my bike doesn't power on unless my phone is near), and about 10 other features I don't care about.
The point about the Avinox reluctor ring is also complete horsesh*t, once again. It's a wives' tale that has been posted so much but it's not true. This is a step backwards, Bosch is monitoring wheel speed thousands of times per rotation in the motor, not just 42x/ rotation or whatever. Avinox's solution requires an extra in frame wire, sensor, and has LESS fidelity. The rear wheel magnet on the Bosch is only for max speed verification because people can alter gearing which the built-in sensor would not know about because it's tracking this info at the crank spindle.
People think that Avinox has some sort of TC, they don't. They have poor torque response due to tuning and the lack of fidelity of wheel speed and this feels like TC because the motor is not considered responsive. This is exactly why Orbea increased sensitivity something like 400%! To attempt to get a 'Bosch' feel which is more like a bike. When you stand on the cranks on an uphill slow turn, the e-bike should move smoothly but strongly, just like your bike does.
The funny thing is how many people raved about the 'TC' on the Avinox and then the Orbea RS tune is released, and all of the sudden reviewers start saying 'yah, been trying to get the Avinox to be more responsive all along.' I swear, you can't make this stuff up.
Maybe there is some slight difference in motor behavior that I would prefer if I rode an Avinox, but guess what? I don't care. That is such a small difference as to not be a factor when considering reliability, serviceability, rattle, future proofing, center of gravity, etc.
How many updates has the M1 received in the last 3 years? I don't think any. Compare that to the Bosch with continued refinements and features being offered.
Yah, I'll stick with the Bosch probably until the TQ120 is ready in a Yeti.
Bosch does not have heart rate controlled assist yet. You can integrate and see your heart rate but having the assist automatically adjust to your heart rate in real time is still exclusive to Avinox. If you’re using an ebike as a training tool, that is undeniably very enticing.
So far all the criticism of Avinox in this thread has been from people that haven’t spent any time on bikes equipped with it.
I’ve drafted numerous responses as someone who owns, rides and sells Avinox. But its just not worth it, the cognitive dissonance in here is ridiculous. Some people are just committed to hating it.
We have just sold our last Fazua (thankfully) and sell a good of Bosch (it is still our shop preference) too. They are doing things completely legitimately. But they’d be doing a lot better if they didn’t have such a crazy high buy in and weren’t trying to hold back and stifle development.
Specialized are in a weird place and keep releasing bikes that no one asked for (in the UK at least), so they’re really hard to sell.
TQ is good but no one wants an SL because Avinox equipped bikes don’t weigh much more. Who knows if this TQ120 will actually live up to the hype… it won’t do much though as so few brands use it.
Oh and the M1 is not inefficient
Personally, it's a feature that I don't even remotely care about, but I understand it's something that some might care about, although I don't think that's the vital Demographic. The point remains the same however: that people constantly portray the Bosch as a dinosaur regarding features, but if one were to line up all of the features, it appears from where I'm sitting to be the class leader. Who the f*ck buys a bike to have even more connectivity, is beyond me, but I guess I'm old fashioned.
Here is what AI says on the topic however:
Yes — the Bosch CX (Performance Line CX) eMTB drive unit supports both heart rate monitoring and auto-adjusting riding modes through its smart system and eBike Flow app.
Heart rate monitoring
The Bosch smart system (Kiox 300 or Kiox 500 displays) can now connect to a Bluetooth-enabled heart rate monitor — such as a chest strap, band, or smartwatch — and display your real-time heart rate on the eBike display while riding EMTB Forums+1. To set this up, you pair the device in the eBike Flow app under My eBike > eBike Pass > Components, and then add the heart rate screen in the display configuration. This allows you to track your workout intensity and performance in real time.
Auto-adjusting riding modes
The CX supports Auto mode and other customizable riding modes that adapt motor support to your riding style and conditions EMTB Forums+1. You can set up to four favorite modes in the eBike Flow app, and the system can automatically adjust assistance levels based on your input and terrain. For example, the eMTB+ mode (available from July 2025) offers up to 400% motor support and adapts precisely to rider needs, especially on steep or technical trails Bosch Press. The Kiox display can also switch between relevant screens automatically depending on whether you’re climbing, descending, or riding flat Automotive World+1.
In summary:
If you want these features, ensure your CX eMTB is equipped with a Kiox display and has the latest eBike Flow app update installed.
If you read your own AI slop you’ll see that Bosch has Heart Rate Monitoring AND it has an Auto mode however nothing indicates any integration between the two. Auto mode does NOT monitor your heart rate in order to deliver power and stay in a targeted HR zone.
DJI found improvements related to tight seals which were used on the M1 to reduce the amount of rattling that made it outside the motor cases. They even announced this as an improvement to the M2.
So, take it up with Avinox, not me.
The M1 is roughly equivalent to the also rattling Gen4 Bosch but with lower reliability. The M1 (like the Gen4) is totally functional but is already outdated.
I'm certain the Avinox rides great as many have said so. I don't need to ride it to agree with you. My points still remain regarding feature set, serviceability, rattles, etc. I mean I can see that it doesn't have chain ring protection, and I know how I ride. I can look up the actual weight and cost of the E13 bash ring for the Avinox. 'Just riding it' doesn't change this, or the other realities. That's before you get to the whole Class 1 argument, which the Avinox undeniably is not.
Well, I'm glad you found ONE item to discredit out of like 25. Good job. LOL
Take what up with Avinox?
It was you that said the M1 wad inefficient. I just said from someone who actually has and uses one that it us not. The fact that the M2s is better is irrelevant… i mean why would they release a new version if it wasn’t better
Claude, how do I downvote twice
What happened to this forum. Is everyone now an influencer?
Just out of curiousity, where did you see or hear the 30k units in 2025 number?
https://www.mtbr.com/threads/avinox-motor-guide-rumors-m2-updates-torque-gains-and-trail-discoveries.1243722
I don’t think it was ever confirmed. Given how many brands jumped in to offer a bike with their second gen system, roughly a year later, makes me think it must be at least possible.
ffs, the same shit you are pulling over at emtbforums. the few extra watts of drag with the m1 were never ever in a region that would be noticable in range. stop spreading your nonsense.
and your nonsense about a chain ring protection system adding a pound:
What chain ring protector is that?
the one for the velduro rogue, it bolts to the motor cover
Thanks, was hoping for another universal type option for the Avinox system.
I hope the Rogue chain ring protection holds up well; I generally like the design and it's sleek and minimalist. It's a bit absurd to me that so many of the brands using Avinox have foregone chain ring protection. Legit, the motor could be 100x better than a Bosch and it wouldn't matter w/o chainring protection for me as it would be useless for offroad riding.
But 2 obvious points:
Now you two kiss. 😘
Agreed. Smooch it up, nerds. I created this thread to chat about e-bikes because the tech forum got sick of too much emtb talk. Now you two are having a pissing contest about nothing. Kiss and be friends or go battle it out in the emtbforums, not here.
As long as I'm the unicorn.
Well, they are pretty kick ass.
Anyone have any insight if tq bikes will go on sale when they drop the 120? Or will they be keeping the 60.
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