The car analogy is a stupid one because you don't have cars sharing a road with other users who are going 10x-15x slower (2mph avg walking...
The car analogy is a stupid one because you don't have cars sharing a road with other users who are going 10x-15x slower (2mph avg walking speed vs. 20-28mph cutoff).
Saying that easy delimiting can be addressed by enforcement is a terrible solution. There's one park nearby where the managing agency hates bikes despite them being 80% of the users, and actively enforces a 20mph speed limit with rangers and radar guns. They literally hide behind trees on fire road connectors they know people use to connect the few singletracks and slap you with a $400 ticket. I do NOT want that to be the norm in other parks where there are bike trails just because some douchebags want to VPN hack their Amflows to go 28mph up fire roads past the dog walkers.
I get what you're saying, however I think your dismissal of the "car analogy" is flawed. If you are talking about 4 (or even 2) lane state or interstate routes, that have dedicated bike paths and pedestrian sidewalks next to them, then yes, traffic of differing speeds and types is separated. Where I live, on the other hand, most of the roads are narrow, rural, 2 lane roads, with all sorts of turns and elevation changes. Just today, while driving up my road, I saw a number of walkers and runners, plus some cyclists, plus normal car traffic, plus some hotshot young bucks on crotch rockets (who come out to these roads from more urban areas specifically because they are bucolic with a lot of fun corners). On other days, there are absolutely guys in Subie STIs and the like, pretending its a WRC course. Anyway, my point is, faster more capable cars and motos are "sharing the road" while doing double or even triple the 10-15x speed differential you mention being a problem between walkers and e-bikes. I'm not saying e-bikes can't be a problem for walkers, but cars can be too.
Unfortunately, the issue really seems intractable to me. I'd much rather have a skilled, considerate driver in a STI passing me than an sociopath (or teenager showing off) in an F150, so clearly the vehicle itself isn't the issue. I don't see how e-bikes are any different in that regard. I don't think I've ever come close to a collision with a walker or hiker, because coming up in MTB in the 90s trail access etiquette was really drilled into my head, but working in shops we'd have customers come in talking about how they (accidentally) ran a hiking family off the trail on a recent descent due to being out of control with poor line of sight. And those guys were often on hardtails, so again, it comes down to individual responsibility, and I don't know how you can really codify that, short of the enforcement you mention (which would cost a lot and take a lot of the fun and freedom out of being out in the woods), or some sort of catastrophic event where there is a lawsuit. From my experience, the only effective way to bring the idiots into line is to have a robust MTB community with good values to guide them in the right direction, hopefully in a nice and friendly way, but not everyone will take friendly guidance to heart (see my earlier reference to sociopaths and teens showing off).
Then why is it fine for a 16/17 year old to buy a muscle car without years of driving experience?No one hates Ford/GM for making more...
Then why is it fine for a 16/17 year old to buy a muscle car without years of driving experience?
No one hates Ford/GM for making more powerful cars.
DJI/Avinox are not like Lewis who have photocopied and the improved something. They have designed, engineered and built something from scratch and done it way batter than everyone else. Giving them all a kick in their blasé arse in the process… Bosch and Spesh have hitched their skirts up a bit but they can do better.
The new 700w Avinox battery is incredible (not just another repackaged Panasonic. Complete cell and wiring redesign with only 6% less burn time than the 800. Fuckin fair play to them.
For years we’ve been voting in leaders who stifle and throttle advancement (in the name of equality and environmental whatevers) so the Chinese took on the task on our behalf. They’ve smashed it. And you hate them for it. The irony is hilarious.
"The new 700w Avinox battery is incredible (not just another repackaged Panasonic. Complete cell and wiring redesign with only 6% less burn time than the 800. Fuckin fair play to them."
Where are you getting this 6% figure from? I've been under the impression that a watt is a watt, so the 700wh battery would get about 12% less burn time than the 800wh. I am aware that the 700wh battery has other things going for it, in terms of higher peak output limits and nearly no heat derating during sustained heavy use, but I had not heard that they've somehow gotten more watt hours out of its nominal capacity.
Last years PL pro went for 156km (iirc) and the PX pro went for 144km in eco. 80kg rider, paved road etc… its all on their website and they’ve been pretty vocal about it.
A watt is a watt, the newer bikes have the m2s which is claimed ar 2-3% more efficient than M1 making the new system in 700Wh closer to the old system in 800Wh. I want to see a comparison of the new bikes with the old 800Wh compared to the original M1 system.
If anything, the 700Wh could consume slightly more energy as it can sustain higher loads for much longer before derating.
Unfortunately the test does not have the M2S, but in a different test they confirmed the 3% gain. One caveat to the "watt is a watt", is that manufacturers can print whatever number they want, for instance Specialized's 840Wh battery which by most metrics is smaller than a Bosch 800Wh. So it is possible that the Avinox 700Wh has a few more available Wh than advertised.
When the Avinox hit the market the 600 Wh battery crapped out when they tested it in full turbo. But that can happen to any battery the harder you strain it at some point. It depends how good the cell quality is and how the manufacturer programs the battery manage system in combination with the motor characteristic. You can also have a conservative or progressive approach for the programming resulting in different longetivity of the cells or depending on their quality.
But essentially if you don't have an use case where you want to get only short, high power laps out of the system and more like range where you can't use full power anyway (bigger backcountry stuf) the motors get more and more on a level of smiliar efficiency so that it almost doesn't matter which motor you ride as long as its characteristic is extensively customizable. And of course the battery matters but the battery quality can also fluctuate in a series of batteries of the same manufacturer:
Something from bosch dropping on june 18th. Rumour and no idea what it could beRumours- new sx and another saying they bought fazua and still another...
Something from bosch dropping on june 18th. Rumour and no idea what it could be
Rumours- new sx and another saying they bought fazua and still another said gearbox
I had heard a rumor that they were going to add some sort of slider bar to the app for the end user to adjust the motor cutoff speed, or class, presumably to compete with Spz and Avinox bikes that can be switched to Class 3 by the user. The guy said his local dealer had seen the beta verson or something like that at a dealer event. On the one hand, I doubt it, as it could mean Bosch kind of diverging from their "high road" stance on regs, and they're still holding firm on 750w max (not just continuous), but I could maybe see them doing some sort of middle ground, since they already make Class 3 enabled motors for the Euro "Pedelec" class. Not sure if their app tracks route with GPS, but the best way for them to try to cover both the "pro-regulation" base and the "give some people what they want" base would be to have the app identify the road/trail that you are on and the applicable regs, and it could selectively allow you to swap to Class 3 if in a permitted area. In my experience, tech trails are self limiting in terms of speed, but I wouldn't mind class 3 capability when riding the road to or between trails. The only trails where I've found the 20mph cutoff to be a problem are wide, machine built, jump trails, where you come out of a turn and want to give a few pedal strokes to ensure you clear the next jump, only to feel the motor cut out, and I've heard some people describe downright scary situations from it. For analog riders it sounds weird, as they're not getting any assistance in that situation either, but some combination of the inherent motor drag and the abrupt drop in assistance almost feels like the bike is literally applying the brakes right when you are trying to gain speed.
Something from bosch dropping on june 18th. Rumour and no idea what it could beRumours- new sx and another saying they bought fazua and still another...
Something from bosch dropping on june 18th. Rumour and no idea what it could be
Rumours- new sx and another saying they bought fazua and still another said gearbox
I had heard a rumor that they were going to add some sort of slider bar to the app for the end user to adjust the...
I had heard a rumor that they were going to add some sort of slider bar to the app for the end user to adjust the motor cutoff speed, or class, presumably to compete with Spz and Avinox bikes that can be switched to Class 3 by the user. The guy said his local dealer had seen the beta verson or something like that at a dealer event. On the one hand, I doubt it, as it could mean Bosch kind of diverging from their "high road" stance on regs, and they're still holding firm on 750w max (not just continuous), but I could maybe see them doing some sort of middle ground, since they already make Class 3 enabled motors for the Euro "Pedelec" class. Not sure if their app tracks route with GPS, but the best way for them to try to cover both the "pro-regulation" base and the "give some people what they want" base would be to have the app identify the road/trail that you are on and the applicable regs, and it could selectively allow you to swap to Class 3 if in a permitted area. In my experience, tech trails are self limiting in terms of speed, but I wouldn't mind class 3 capability when riding the road to or between trails. The only trails where I've found the 20mph cutoff to be a problem are wide, machine built, jump trails, where you come out of a turn and want to give a few pedal strokes to ensure you clear the next jump, only to feel the motor cut out, and I've heard some people describe downright scary situations from it. For analog riders it sounds weird, as they're not getting any assistance in that situation either, but some combination of the inherent motor drag and the abrupt drop in assistance almost feels like the bike is literally applying the brakes right when you are trying to gain speed.
Interesting. I'd imagine it's possible to do that. In my current area i do a fair bit of commuting to the trails. That'd be pretty nice. I'd be more inclined to use it for the work commute as well
Something from bosch dropping on june 18th. Rumour and no idea what it could beRumours- new sx and another saying they bought fazua and still another...
Something from bosch dropping on june 18th. Rumour and no idea what it could be
Rumours- new sx and another saying they bought fazua and still another said gearbox
I had heard a rumor that they were going to add some sort of slider bar to the app for the end user to adjust the...
I had heard a rumor that they were going to add some sort of slider bar to the app for the end user to adjust the motor cutoff speed, or class, presumably to compete with Spz and Avinox bikes that can be switched to Class 3 by the user. The guy said his local dealer had seen the beta verson or something like that at a dealer event. On the one hand, I doubt it, as it could mean Bosch kind of diverging from their "high road" stance on regs, and they're still holding firm on 750w max (not just continuous), but I could maybe see them doing some sort of middle ground, since they already make Class 3 enabled motors for the Euro "Pedelec" class. Not sure if their app tracks route with GPS, but the best way for them to try to cover both the "pro-regulation" base and the "give some people what they want" base would be to have the app identify the road/trail that you are on and the applicable regs, and it could selectively allow you to swap to Class 3 if in a permitted area. In my experience, tech trails are self limiting in terms of speed, but I wouldn't mind class 3 capability when riding the road to or between trails. The only trails where I've found the 20mph cutoff to be a problem are wide, machine built, jump trails, where you come out of a turn and want to give a few pedal strokes to ensure you clear the next jump, only to feel the motor cut out, and I've heard some people describe downright scary situations from it. For analog riders it sounds weird, as they're not getting any assistance in that situation either, but some combination of the inherent motor drag and the abrupt drop in assistance almost feels like the bike is literally applying the brakes right when you are trying to gain speed.
Wouldn't work in the EU as above 25 kp/h assistance you need registration/insurance and mirrors plus a number plate and then even fireroads in woods or as soon as they are non public roads because its classified as a motorized vehicle are off limits. At least that's how its handled in most countries of the EU.
I know there's going to be a Bosch update to let you adjust how much run-on each mode has. That Alex Bike Tester guy was showing a beta version of it, and I thought he said that was coming in July. Not sure what all is going to be in this June announcement, sounds bigger than just a little update.
Ok as someone who hauls a backpack full of collapsible tools + sawzaw for trail work days I actually kinda like the concept of the Levo X. I've looked at the Dakine builder pack you can put a chainsaw in, but would much rather just mount it to the bike instead. I guess props to Specialized for bringing regular features that average people would want instead of what the industry usually does which is pander to us nerds? (The sell one bike to 10 people rather than 10 bikes to one person concept)
Not to totally derail things, but I was thinking about Surron and some other lite emoto manufacturers who who refer to their products as ebikes when they're clearly mopeds or motorcycles instead. Then I ran across this article from a local state news source of how everyone is dealing with it, which i already knew but, I got to thinking what's the potential for a class action lawsuit against Surron for mislabeling and purposely marketing their products as ebikes?
Trail centers and even legitimate ebike manufacturers should be able to find standing and it would be a whole lot easier than one group trying to stand up and litigate it. It would be awesome if somehow participating trail centers could a payout but different labeling and education would also be a start in the right direction. I'm not usually a fan of the USs litigious society but this one makes sense to me especially because it's a problem every state and area is dealing with.
We did a comparison test between Specialized's Levo 4 and Levo R to see what separates each bike. And selfishly, I wasn't really sold on the Levo R and wanted to see if Specialized was just blowing smoke or if it served a purpose.
TLDR - both bikes ride really well. The Levo R could be made into a sick mini-enduro bike with some different components. Motor power/range is great, but I'd struggle to buy one knowing Avinox exists and offers more everything at a similar or lower weight.
I don't really understand bikes like the Levo R or Vala Lite from a mtn biker's perspective (the Vitalmtb member). You closed with it would be interesting to try the R with real tires and a real fork...well said! It would be interesting to get a marketers take on these bikes, are they really targeting the avid rider, where are they selling these bikes (which shops/areas buy the most, etc.). These lightweight e-bikes (at the cost of wheels, tires, and forks) seem great for a certain rider...I'm picturing the Lake Tahoe, Park City, etc. crowd who vacation at their second homes (nothing against that, good for them!) who don't really mtn bike but enjoy riding the green/blue trails at very reserved speeds and the idea of a lighter bike is a no brainer. Every rider I know wants real tires and a fork where the CSU won't be an issue.
I don't really understand bikes like the Levo R or Vala Lite from a mtn biker's perspective (the Vitalmtb member). You closed with it would be...
I don't really understand bikes like the Levo R or Vala Lite from a mtn biker's perspective (the Vitalmtb member). You closed with it would be interesting to try the R with real tires and a real fork...well said! It would be interesting to get a marketers take on these bikes, are they really targeting the avid rider, where are they selling these bikes (which shops/areas buy the most, etc.). These lightweight e-bikes (at the cost of wheels, tires, and forks) seem great for a certain rider...I'm picturing the Lake Tahoe, Park City, etc. crowd who vacation at their second homes (nothing against that, good for them!) who don't really mtn bike but enjoy riding the green/blue trails at very reserved speeds and the idea of a lighter bike is a no brainer. Every rider I know wants real tires and a fork where the CSU won't be an issue.
Personally it comes down to how and where people ride, for me, Rotorua isn’t packed full of rocks and I don’t smash wheels or tires round here even though most of my riding is on grade 5s. I’m on an old gen 9.8 rail at the moment and realistically don’t need a 750 wh battery 95% of the time and the thing is a tank.
I like the Bosch motor from a reliability and power perspective and really don’t need the latest and greatest from Avinox. The gen 5 is meant to be quieter which is my only complaint with the gen 3.
150-160mm travel is all I need. We have shuttles in the forest when I want to ride my DH bike.
I could get away with something a few kgs lighter and it would likely be more enjoyable but I still want to stay full power.
When I start looking at what is available locally to scratch my itch there isn’t a huge list - The Vala lite ticks a lot of my boxes and I don’t think I’d be the only one. Not 100% sure on the 36 on the front of it though!
I don't really understand bikes like the Levo R or Vala Lite from a mtn biker's perspective (the Vitalmtb member). You closed with it would be...
I don't really understand bikes like the Levo R or Vala Lite from a mtn biker's perspective (the Vitalmtb member). You closed with it would be interesting to try the R with real tires and a real fork...well said! It would be interesting to get a marketers take on these bikes, are they really targeting the avid rider, where are they selling these bikes (which shops/areas buy the most, etc.). These lightweight e-bikes (at the cost of wheels, tires, and forks) seem great for a certain rider...I'm picturing the Lake Tahoe, Park City, etc. crowd who vacation at their second homes (nothing against that, good for them!) who don't really mtn bike but enjoy riding the green/blue trails at very reserved speeds and the idea of a lighter bike is a no brainer. Every rider I know wants real tires and a fork where the CSU won't be an issue.
I own a Vala that I ended up building "Lite-ish": Lyrik instead of 38, Reserve 30 HD (vs. the original DH/HD combos), EXO+ tires, etc. Not quite as light as their Lite build but it does get the weight down to a bit over 47 lbs with pedals. That's damn light for a full power ebike. I weigh <155 lbs so it becomes much more difficult to throw around. My local trails don't have many rocks, and are steep & flowy, and ride better with a lighter, poppier bike. I can and have thrown on a 170mm Zeb & longer stroke Vivid and gravity tires when riding elsewhere, but that build up is overkill for my local trails. There's a reason I didn't buy a Bullit.
Time will tell how the Lyrik CSU holds up though. It's the newer 2027 one that is considerably beefier than the old one - actually weighs nearly as much as the old Zeb. I did end up with a creaking CSU on the Lyrik I had on my Heckler SL before this, but that got warrantied.
We did a comparison test between Specialized's Levo 4 and Levo R to see what separates each bike. And selfishly, I wasn't really sold on the...
We did a comparison test between Specialized's Levo 4 and Levo R to see what separates each bike. And selfishly, I wasn't really sold on the Levo R and wanted to see if Specialized was just blowing smoke or if it served a purpose.
TLDR - both bikes ride really well. The Levo R could be made into a sick mini-enduro bike with some different components. Motor power/range is great, but I'd struggle to buy one knowing Avinox exists and offers more everything at a similar or lower weight.
Like, comment, sell your soul to the devil 😈
That was a great comparison. Just out of curiosity, in the subtitles, every time you spoke "Levo R" it converted it to "Levo SL" in the text. I am assuming the subtitles are auto-generated by Youtube, but is that anything that you altered or is Youtube's AI deciding that the R is an SL? It wouldn't be entirely inaccurate, relatively speaking, if Specialized didn't have a separate line of SL e-bikes, but I couldn't decide if it is an indication of the Youtube AI being really smart or really dumb!🤔
We did a comparison test between Specialized's Levo 4 and Levo R to see what separates each bike. And selfishly, I wasn't really sold on the...
We did a comparison test between Specialized's Levo 4 and Levo R to see what separates each bike. And selfishly, I wasn't really sold on the Levo R and wanted to see if Specialized was just blowing smoke or if it served a purpose.
TLDR - both bikes ride really well. The Levo R could be made into a sick mini-enduro bike with some different components. Motor power/range is great, but I'd struggle to buy one knowing Avinox exists and offers more everything at a similar or lower weight.
Like, comment, sell your soul to the devil 😈
when you ride the specialized motor for the first time after you are already used to a m2s, it feels like a sl motor
I am almost certain Specialized are trying to get rid of as much 3.1 motors and battery stock as possible before 2027 which explains the Levo R, Evo and X releases. Ever since Yamaha (Giant's ebike partner) purchased Brose I have assumed Specialized would try and move away from Brose as soon as possible. Who they decide to work with next I don't know but I think we will see an eCVT powered Levo next year. I don't think Specialized want to get caught behind the curve again like they did with the Levo 4 after it got delayed.
I don't really understand bikes like the Levo R or Vala Lite from a mtn biker's perspective (the Vitalmtb member). You closed with it would be...
I don't really understand bikes like the Levo R or Vala Lite from a mtn biker's perspective (the Vitalmtb member). You closed with it would be interesting to try the R with real tires and a real fork...well said! It would be interesting to get a marketers take on these bikes, are they really targeting the avid rider, where are they selling these bikes (which shops/areas buy the most, etc.). These lightweight e-bikes (at the cost of wheels, tires, and forks) seem great for a certain rider...I'm picturing the Lake Tahoe, Park City, etc. crowd who vacation at their second homes (nothing against that, good for them!) who don't really mtn bike but enjoy riding the green/blue trails at very reserved speeds and the idea of a lighter bike is a no brainer. Every rider I know wants real tires and a fork where the CSU won't be an issue.
They can make sense on other motor platforms as you could have a full power bike under 20kg which will have a very different ride feel than all the 22-24kg bikes out right now. It just makes a lot less sense on the specialised as you just can't get the weight down all that much, as it has the heaviest motor and heaviest battery of the current generation...
The inventory issue is the true answer here. S is trying to get rid of them.
I prefer SL bikes. ~44 pounds is the tipping point for great bike handling (completely unrelated to my SL ebike and my old 26" dh bike from back in the day that both weigh 44 pounds)
The avinox system is both an SL system and a full power (hyper power?) System. Fauza (RIP), TQ, and a few Bafang motors are the only lighter motors out there, but avinox's lighter battery makes it a wash.
Building a 45 pound avinox Amflow bike isn't crazy and doesn't require that much compromise
That was a great comparison. Just out of curiosity, in the subtitles, every time you spoke "Levo R" it converted it to "Levo SL" in the...
That was a great comparison. Just out of curiosity, in the subtitles, every time you spoke "Levo R" it converted it to "Levo SL" in the text. I am assuming the subtitles are auto-generated by Youtube, but is that anything that you altered or is Youtube's AI deciding that the R is an SL? It wouldn't be entirely inaccurate, relatively speaking, if Specialized didn't have a separate line of SL e-bikes, but I couldn't decide if it is an indication of the Youtube AI being really smart or really dumb!🤔
those are youtube's auto-generated captions calling the R an SL. AI will save us.
We did a comparison test between Specialized's Levo 4 and Levo R to see what separates each bike. And selfishly, I wasn't really sold on the...
We did a comparison test between Specialized's Levo 4 and Levo R to see what separates each bike. And selfishly, I wasn't really sold on the Levo R and wanted to see if Specialized was just blowing smoke or if it served a purpose.
TLDR - both bikes ride really well. The Levo R could be made into a sick mini-enduro bike with some different components. Motor power/range is great, but I'd struggle to buy one knowing Avinox exists and offers more everything at a similar or lower weight.
I get what you're saying, however I think your dismissal of the "car analogy" is flawed. If you are talking about 4 (or even 2) lane state or interstate routes, that have dedicated bike paths and pedestrian sidewalks next to them, then yes, traffic of differing speeds and types is separated. Where I live, on the other hand, most of the roads are narrow, rural, 2 lane roads, with all sorts of turns and elevation changes. Just today, while driving up my road, I saw a number of walkers and runners, plus some cyclists, plus normal car traffic, plus some hotshot young bucks on crotch rockets (who come out to these roads from more urban areas specifically because they are bucolic with a lot of fun corners). On other days, there are absolutely guys in Subie STIs and the like, pretending its a WRC course. Anyway, my point is, faster more capable cars and motos are "sharing the road" while doing double or even triple the 10-15x speed differential you mention being a problem between walkers and e-bikes. I'm not saying e-bikes can't be a problem for walkers, but cars can be too.
Unfortunately, the issue really seems intractable to me. I'd much rather have a skilled, considerate driver in a STI passing me than an sociopath (or teenager showing off) in an F150, so clearly the vehicle itself isn't the issue. I don't see how e-bikes are any different in that regard. I don't think I've ever come close to a collision with a walker or hiker, because coming up in MTB in the 90s trail access etiquette was really drilled into my head, but working in shops we'd have customers come in talking about how they (accidentally) ran a hiking family off the trail on a recent descent due to being out of control with poor line of sight. And those guys were often on hardtails, so again, it comes down to individual responsibility, and I don't know how you can really codify that, short of the enforcement you mention (which would cost a lot and take a lot of the fun and freedom out of being out in the woods), or some sort of catastrophic event where there is a lawsuit. From my experience, the only effective way to bring the idiots into line is to have a robust MTB community with good values to guide them in the right direction, hopefully in a nice and friendly way, but not everyone will take friendly guidance to heart (see my earlier reference to sociopaths and teens showing off).
"The new 700w Avinox battery is incredible (not just another repackaged Panasonic. Complete cell and wiring redesign with only 6% less burn time than the 800. Fuckin fair play to them."
Where are you getting this 6% figure from? I've been under the impression that a watt is a watt, so the 700wh battery would get about 12% less burn time than the 800wh. I am aware that the 700wh battery has other things going for it, in terms of higher peak output limits and nearly no heat derating during sustained heavy use, but I had not heard that they've somehow gotten more watt hours out of its nominal capacity.
It was an Avinox test
Last years PL pro went for 156km (iirc) and the PX pro went for 144km in eco. 80kg rider, paved road etc… its all on their website and they’ve been pretty vocal about it.
A watt is a watt, the newer bikes have the m2s which is claimed ar 2-3% more efficient than M1 making the new system in 700Wh closer to the old system in 800Wh. I want to see a comparison of the new bikes with the old 800Wh compared to the original M1 system.
If anything, the 700Wh could consume slightly more energy as it can sustain higher loads for much longer before derating.
Don't see an edit button:
The best info on batteries and efficiencies is this article: https://ebike-mtb.com/en/e-bike-motor-test-range-efficiency-vertical-rangee-bike-motor-test-range-efficiency-vertical-range/
Unfortunately the test does not have the M2S, but in a different test they confirmed the 3% gain. One caveat to the "watt is a watt", is that manufacturers can print whatever number they want, for instance Specialized's 840Wh battery which by most metrics is smaller than a Bosch 800Wh. So it is possible that the Avinox 700Wh has a few more available Wh than advertised.
When the Avinox hit the market the 600 Wh battery crapped out when they tested it in full turbo. But that can happen to any battery the harder you strain it at some point. It depends how good the cell quality is and how the manufacturer programs the battery manage system in combination with the motor characteristic. You can also have a conservative or progressive approach for the programming resulting in different longetivity of the cells or depending on their quality.
But essentially if you don't have an use case where you want to get only short, high power laps out of the system and more like range where you can't use full power anyway (bigger backcountry stuf) the motors get more and more on a level of smiliar efficiency so that it almost doesn't matter which motor you ride as long as its characteristic is extensively customizable. And of course the battery matters but the battery quality can also fluctuate in a series of batteries of the same manufacturer:
https://www.emtb-news.de/forum/threads/akkus-nennkapazitaeten-zur-wirkl…
I just learned that norway also has some politicians championing for an ebike ban on singletrails which will not get better by the power wars:
https://www.singletracks.com/mtb-trails/will-e-bikes-be-banned-on-some-trails-in-europe-proposed-legislation-in-norway-could-lead-the-way/
Would be a shame because they have some of the most scenic and hard to reach trails!
The legislative proposal for the new Motor traffic Act in Norway just dropped, and the part about banning e-bikes on trails is not there anymore.
Something from bosch dropping on june 18th. Rumour and no idea what it could be
Rumours- new sx and another saying they bought fazua and still another said gearbox
I had heard a rumor that they were going to add some sort of slider bar to the app for the end user to adjust the motor cutoff speed, or class, presumably to compete with Spz and Avinox bikes that can be switched to Class 3 by the user. The guy said his local dealer had seen the beta verson or something like that at a dealer event. On the one hand, I doubt it, as it could mean Bosch kind of diverging from their "high road" stance on regs, and they're still holding firm on 750w max (not just continuous), but I could maybe see them doing some sort of middle ground, since they already make Class 3 enabled motors for the Euro "Pedelec" class. Not sure if their app tracks route with GPS, but the best way for them to try to cover both the "pro-regulation" base and the "give some people what they want" base would be to have the app identify the road/trail that you are on and the applicable regs, and it could selectively allow you to swap to Class 3 if in a permitted area. In my experience, tech trails are self limiting in terms of speed, but I wouldn't mind class 3 capability when riding the road to or between trails. The only trails where I've found the 20mph cutoff to be a problem are wide, machine built, jump trails, where you come out of a turn and want to give a few pedal strokes to ensure you clear the next jump, only to feel the motor cut out, and I've heard some people describe downright scary situations from it. For analog riders it sounds weird, as they're not getting any assistance in that situation either, but some combination of the inherent motor drag and the abrupt drop in assistance almost feels like the bike is literally applying the brakes right when you are trying to gain speed.
Interesting. I'd imagine it's possible to do that. In my current area i do a fair bit of commuting to the trails. That'd be pretty nice. I'd be more inclined to use it for the work commute as well
Wouldn't work in the EU as above 25 kp/h assistance you need registration/insurance and mirrors plus a number plate and then even fireroads in woods or as soon as they are non public roads because its classified as a motorized vehicle are off limits. At least that's how its handled in most countries of the EU.
I know there's going to be a Bosch update to let you adjust how much run-on each mode has. That Alex Bike Tester guy was showing a beta version of it, and I thought he said that was coming in July. Not sure what all is going to be in this June announcement, sounds bigger than just a little update.
Ok as someone who hauls a backpack full of collapsible tools + sawzaw for trail work days I actually kinda like the concept of the Levo X. I've looked at the Dakine builder pack you can put a chainsaw in, but would much rather just mount it to the bike instead. I guess props to Specialized for bringing regular features that average people would want instead of what the industry usually does which is pander to us nerds? (The sell one bike to 10 people rather than 10 bikes to one person concept)
Just seen a post on anther site about New trek ebikes coming on 26th(au) Could be the new TQ's??
https://bridgemi.com/outdoors-life/e-motos-sometimes-mistaken-for-e-bikes-causing-trouble-on-michigan-trails/
Not to totally derail things, but I was thinking about Surron and some other lite emoto manufacturers who who refer to their products as ebikes when they're clearly mopeds or motorcycles instead. Then I ran across this article from a local state news source of how everyone is dealing with it, which i already knew but, I got to thinking what's the potential for a class action lawsuit against Surron for mislabeling and purposely marketing their products as ebikes?
Trail centers and even legitimate ebike manufacturers should be able to find standing and it would be a whole lot easier than one group trying to stand up and litigate it. It would be awesome if somehow participating trail centers could a payout but different labeling and education would also be a start in the right direction. I'm not usually a fan of the USs litigious society but this one makes sense to me especially because it's a problem every state and area is dealing with.
I've started wondering whether the plaintiff's bar might be the most likely thing to save us from Surrons and perhaps even the Avinox wave.
We did a comparison test between Specialized's Levo 4 and Levo R to see what separates each bike. And selfishly, I wasn't really sold on the Levo R and wanted to see if Specialized was just blowing smoke or if it served a purpose.
TLDR - both bikes ride really well. The Levo R could be made into a sick mini-enduro bike with some different components. Motor power/range is great, but I'd struggle to buy one knowing Avinox exists and offers more everything at a similar or lower weight.
Like, comment, sell your soul to the devil 😈
If you currently ride an ebike already, can you really be anti-Avinox on priciples alone? You've already sold out.
I don't really understand bikes like the Levo R or Vala Lite from a mtn biker's perspective (the Vitalmtb member). You closed with it would be interesting to try the R with real tires and a real fork...well said! It would be interesting to get a marketers take on these bikes, are they really targeting the avid rider, where are they selling these bikes (which shops/areas buy the most, etc.). These lightweight e-bikes (at the cost of wheels, tires, and forks) seem great for a certain rider...I'm picturing the Lake Tahoe, Park City, etc. crowd who vacation at their second homes (nothing against that, good for them!) who don't really mtn bike but enjoy riding the green/blue trails at very reserved speeds and the idea of a lighter bike is a no brainer. Every rider I know wants real tires and a fork where the CSU won't be an issue.
Personally it comes down to how and where people ride, for me, Rotorua isn’t packed full of rocks and I don’t smash wheels or tires round here even though most of my riding is on grade 5s. I’m on an old gen 9.8 rail at the moment and realistically don’t need a 750 wh battery 95% of the time and the thing is a tank.
I like the Bosch motor from a reliability and power perspective and really don’t need the latest and greatest from Avinox. The gen 5 is meant to be quieter which is my only complaint with the gen 3.
150-160mm travel is all I need. We have shuttles in the forest when I want to ride my DH bike.
I could get away with something a few kgs lighter and it would likely be more enjoyable but I still want to stay full power.
When I start looking at what is available locally to scratch my itch there isn’t a huge list - The Vala lite ticks a lot of my boxes and I don’t think I’d be the only one. Not 100% sure on the 36 on the front of it though!
I own a Vala that I ended up building "Lite-ish": Lyrik instead of 38, Reserve 30 HD (vs. the original DH/HD combos), EXO+ tires, etc. Not quite as light as their Lite build but it does get the weight down to a bit over 47 lbs with pedals. That's damn light for a full power ebike. I weigh <155 lbs so it becomes much more difficult to throw around. My local trails don't have many rocks, and are steep & flowy, and ride better with a lighter, poppier bike. I can and have thrown on a 170mm Zeb & longer stroke Vivid and gravity tires when riding elsewhere, but that build up is overkill for my local trails. There's a reason I didn't buy a Bullit.
Time will tell how the Lyrik CSU holds up though. It's the newer 2027 one that is considerably beefier than the old one - actually weighs nearly as much as the old Zeb. I did end up with a creaking CSU on the Lyrik I had on my Heckler SL before this, but that got warrantied.
That was a great comparison. Just out of curiosity, in the subtitles, every time you spoke "Levo R" it converted it to "Levo SL" in the text. I am assuming the subtitles are auto-generated by Youtube, but is that anything that you altered or is Youtube's AI deciding that the R is an SL? It wouldn't be entirely inaccurate, relatively speaking, if Specialized didn't have a separate line of SL e-bikes, but I couldn't decide if it is an indication of the Youtube AI being really smart or really dumb!🤔
when you ride the specialized motor for the first time after you are already used to a m2s, it feels like a sl motor
Someone really deep throated the Koolaid
I am almost certain Specialized are trying to get rid of as much 3.1 motors and battery stock as possible before 2027 which explains the Levo R, Evo and X releases. Ever since Yamaha (Giant's ebike partner) purchased Brose I have assumed Specialized would try and move away from Brose as soon as possible. Who they decide to work with next I don't know but I think we will see an eCVT powered Levo next year. I don't think Specialized want to get caught behind the curve again like they did with the Levo 4 after it got delayed.
They can make sense on other motor platforms as you could have a full power bike under 20kg which will have a very different ride feel than all the 22-24kg bikes out right now. It just makes a lot less sense on the specialised as you just can't get the weight down all that much, as it has the heaviest motor and heaviest battery of the current generation...
The inventory issue is the true answer here. S is trying to get rid of them.
I prefer SL bikes. ~44 pounds is the tipping point for great bike handling (completely unrelated to my SL ebike and my old 26" dh bike from back in the day that both weigh 44 pounds)
The avinox system is both an SL system and a full power (hyper power?) System. Fauza (RIP), TQ, and a few Bafang motors are the only lighter motors out there, but avinox's lighter battery makes it a wash.
Building a 45 pound avinox Amflow bike isn't crazy and doesn't require that much compromise
those are youtube's auto-generated captions calling the R an SL. AI will save us.
I don't doubt it.
Still an issue with battery power to consider. Plus 'bike' feel if that's even a thing any longer.
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