E-bike talk: not tech rumor derailment

I get what you're saying, however I think your dismissal of the "car analogy" is flawed. If you are talking about 4 (or even 2) lane state or interstate routes, that have dedicated bike paths and pedestrian sidewalks next to them, then yes, traffic of differing speeds and types is separated. Where I live, on the other hand, most of the roads are narrow, rural, 2 lane roads, with all sorts of turns and elevation changes. Just today, while driving up my road, I saw a number of walkers and runners, plus some cyclists, plus normal car traffic, plus some hotshot young bucks on crotch rockets (who come out to these roads from more urban areas specifically because they are bucolic with a lot of fun corners). On other days, there are absolutely guys in Subie STIs and the like, pretending its a WRC course. Anyway, my point is, faster more capable cars and motos are "sharing the road" while doing double or even triple the 10-15x speed differential you mention being a problem between walkers and e-bikes. I'm not saying e-bikes can't be a problem for walkers, but cars can be too. 

Unfortunately, the issue really seems intractable to me. I'd much rather have a skilled, considerate driver in a STI passing me than an sociopath (or teenager showing off) in an F150, so clearly the vehicle itself isn't the issue. I don't see how e-bikes are any different in that regard. I don't think I've ever come close to a collision with a walker or hiker, because coming up in MTB in the 90s trail access etiquette was really drilled into my head, but working in shops we'd have customers come in talking about how they (accidentally) ran a hiking family off the trail on a recent descent due to being out of control with poor line of sight. And those guys were often on hardtails, so again, it comes down to individual responsibility, and I don't know how you can really codify that, short of the enforcement you mention (which would cost a lot and take a lot of the fun and freedom out of being out in the woods), or some sort of catastrophic event where there is a lawsuit. From my experience, the only effective way to bring the idiots into line is to have a robust MTB community with good values to guide them in the right direction, hopefully in a nice and friendly way, but not everyone will take friendly guidance to heart (see my earlier reference to sociopaths and teens showing off).

"The new 700w Avinox battery is incredible (not just another repackaged Panasonic. Complete cell and wiring redesign with only 6% less burn time than the 800. Fuckin fair play to them."

Where are you getting this 6% figure from? I've been under the impression that a watt is a watt, so the 700wh battery would get about 12% less burn time than the 800wh. I am aware that the 700wh battery has other things going for it, in terms of higher peak output limits and nearly no heat derating during sustained heavy use, but I had not heard that they've somehow gotten more watt hours out of its nominal capacity.

It was an Avinox test

Last years PL pro went for 156km (iirc) and the PX pro went for 144km in eco. 80kg rider, paved road etc… its all on their website and they’ve been pretty vocal about it.

A watt is a watt, the newer bikes have the m2s which is claimed ar 2-3% more efficient than M1 making the new system in 700Wh closer to the old system in 800Wh. I want to see a comparison of the new bikes with the old 800Wh compared to the original M1 system.

If anything, the 700Wh could consume slightly more energy as it can sustain higher loads for much longer before derating.

Don't see an edit button:

The best info on batteries and efficiencies is this article: https://ebike-mtb.com/en/e-bike-motor-test-range-efficiency-vertical-rangee-bike-motor-test-range-efficiency-vertical-range/

Unfortunately the test does not have the M2S, but in a different test they confirmed the 3% gain. One caveat to the "watt is a watt", is that manufacturers can print whatever number they want, for instance Specialized's 840Wh battery which by most metrics is smaller than a Bosch 800Wh. So it is possible that the Avinox 700Wh has a few more available Wh than advertised.

When the Avinox hit the market the 600 Wh battery crapped out when they tested it in full turbo. But that can happen to any battery the harder you strain it at some point. It depends how good the cell quality is and how the manufacturer programs the battery manage system in combination with the motor characteristic. You can also have a conservative or progressive approach for the programming resulting in different longetivity of the cells or depending on their quality. 

But essentially if you don't have an use case where you want to get only short, high power laps out of the system and more like range where you can't use full power anyway (bigger backcountry stuf) the motors get more and more on a level of smiliar efficiency so that it almost doesn't matter which motor you ride as long as its characteristic is extensively customizable. And of course the battery matters but the battery quality can also fluctuate in a series of batteries of the same manufacturer:

https://www.emtb-news.de/forum/threads/akkus-nennkapazitaeten-zur-wirkl…

I just learned that norway also has some politicians championing for an ebike ban on singletrails which will not get better by the power wars:

https://www.singletracks.com/mtb-trails/will-e-bikes-be-banned-on-some-trails-in-europe-proposed-legislation-in-norway-could-lead-the-way/

Would be a shame because they have some of the most scenic and hard to reach trails!

The legislative proposal for the new Motor traffic Act in Norway just dropped, and the part about banning e-bikes on trails is not there anymore. 

Something from bosch dropping on june 18th. Rumour and no idea what it could be

Rumours- new sx and another saying they bought fazua  and still another said gearbox

I had heard a rumor that they were going to add some sort of slider bar to the app for the end user to adjust the motor cutoff speed, or class, presumably to compete with Spz and Avinox bikes that can be switched to Class 3 by the user. The guy said his local dealer had seen the beta verson or something like that at a dealer event. On the one hand, I doubt it, as it could mean Bosch kind of diverging from their "high road" stance on regs, and they're still holding firm on 750w max (not just continuous), but I could maybe see them doing some sort of middle ground, since they already make Class 3 enabled motors for the Euro "Pedelec" class. Not sure if their app tracks route with GPS, but the best way for them to try to cover both the "pro-regulation" base and the "give some people what they want" base would be to have the app identify the road/trail that you are on and the applicable regs, and it could selectively allow you to swap to Class 3 if in a permitted area. In my experience, tech trails are self limiting in terms of speed, but I wouldn't mind class 3 capability when riding the road to or between trails. The only trails where I've found the 20mph cutoff to be a problem are wide, machine built, jump trails, where you come out of a turn and want to give a few pedal strokes to ensure you clear the next jump, only to feel the motor cut out, and I've heard some people describe downright scary situations from it. For analog riders it sounds weird, as they're not getting any assistance in that situation either, but some combination of the inherent motor drag and the abrupt drop in assistance almost feels like the bike is literally applying the brakes right when you are trying to gain speed.

Interesting. I'd imagine it's possible to do that. In my current area i do a fair bit of commuting to the trails. That'd be pretty nice. I'd be more inclined to use it for the work commute as well

Wouldn't work in the EU as above 25 kp/h assistance you need registration/insurance and mirrors plus a number plate and then even fireroads in woods or as soon as they are non public roads because its classified as a motorized vehicle are off limits. At least that's how its handled in most countries of the EU.

I know there's going to be a Bosch update to let you adjust how much run-on each mode has.  That Alex Bike Tester guy was showing a beta version of it, and I thought he said that was coming in July.  Not sure what all is going to be in this June announcement, sounds bigger than just a little update.