Hello Vital MTB Visitor,
We’re conducting a survey and would appreciate your input. Your answers will help Vital and the MTB industry better understand what riders like you want. Survey results will be used to recognize top brands. Make your voice heard!
Five lucky people will be selected at random to win a Vital MTB t-shirt.
Thanks in advance,
The Vital MTB Crew
Yep, the roadies figured this out and went from 23mm tires at 100 psi to something in the 28-36mm range, with sometimes half the psi. Wider as the surface gets rougher. What feels fast (harsh) is actually slow. My urban assault there's no time document review deadline workout bike has 36s at 49/51 psi, psi set according to one of the racer boi pressure charts. Forget which one, maybe Silca or Enve, but they tend to agree. Feels like butter and goes fast (by my standards).
I have this hunch that "radials" are faster pedaling in the rougher conditions I ride. There's no such thing as a faster tire (even when just talking pedaling), there's only faster for specific surfaces and applications. The rougher it is the more benefit you get from a supple carcass. I think we all intuitively know this as we run lower PSI on steep, natural tech, and bump it up for flow, jumps or packed berms.
I've been injured for a couple years, can't wait to try radials next winter to see if the hunch holds true.
Well, I never included what I used prior to switching to Schwalbe...
So, I was running DHF Maxxgrip front and DHR II Maxxgrip rear and then I eventually swapped to a dual DHR II Maxxgrip setup, all tires in EXO+ casing.(I've also tried their maxxterra versions)
To me these tires were totally fine churning those crankarms up mile after mile on fireroads that I need to do each ride. When I swapped to the MM ultra soft Radial Trail front and TC Ultra soft Trail rear, I immediatly noticed pushing against a wall of resistance in comparison. Once trailside none of that matters, but for pedally fire road sections, that is worth noting.
As I've said multiple times in this thread, those tires are very good, it just doesn't fit my personal needs just the same it would be overkill for me with DH casing tires.
I believe it's a combination of tread + radial vs none radial, because MM is more of a tire for loam vs DHF/DHR II. So the only point I'm trying to make is that there is a reason why there's lots of different tires and casings and compounds out there, because there are different needs.
It feels super draggy on the ups. I’m wondering if it’s the lack of ramps?
I don't think the hans Dampf feels slow. But I also had it in pacestar or some similar fast rolling compound in the back.
yeah this is running it as a rear.
Dunno, I haven't run the Hans. What sidewall and rubber version are you running? Sidewalls aren't apples to appes in Schwalbe to Maxxis, which makes a big difference in feel and pedaling efficiency.
The Nobby Nic is a similar looking tire, but with beefier side knobs and a slightly different tread pattern. In Super Trail Soft flavor the Nic an efficient feeling tire on the rear of my little bike that still has enough sidewall support for me. It's paired with Ultra Soft Super Trail Tacky Chan on front. Tires are funny, lots of personal preference and condition specific variables such as the kind of dirt. I quite like the TackyC up front, but lots of people hate it 🤷♂️
To JVP's point about rougher terrain...
Coming from the world of cyclocross tubulars.... A super supple casing at 20psi (almost riding on the rim) is faster on very bumpy grass/rough fields than a stiffer casing tire at 30psi because of deflection (casing having to deform over bumps). The same is true these days with UCI road racing and gravel racing. All are going to lower pressures and all have supple casings.
Also, rolling resistance tests on drums are helpful for comparisons between tires, but they aren't fully translatable to the real-world trails.
The Radials definitely rolls slow on smooth terrain (because of the bigger contact patch), but on gravel or rough trails, they roll about the same, in some cases maybe a touch faster, because of the supple casing (more so with the Trail casing versions).
I think that's why you hear so many different opinions on how Radials roll is because people are running wildly different pressures in them. Some of the guys I ride with run them down around 20psi, and there are others, at the same weight, running them at closer to 30. The ones running the lower pressures will have a much larger contact patch, therefore more drag.
Spot on.
Ideal operating pressures is often neglected from testing and comparisons, rightfully so because it's like opening pandoras box.
The Enduro-MTB test was cool to compare many different brands/treads/casings/compounds, but a control pressure of 1.5bar/22psi is certainly not ideal for many tires.
At 200lbs, I started riding the Mary Trail Pro Radial at 22psi on the front (what i used to ride with a bias-ply trail casing). Tire felt objectively slow, but
rolling certainly improved when i increased the pressure.
In the recent Downtime Podcast, Gwin finally confirmed what we all pretty much knew. Continental has a "Race" compound and/or something for colder temp racing.
Makes sense as Conti's softest rubber is the firmest of all the major tire players. Their 'super soft' is between a MaxxTerra and MaxxGrip or T7 and T9, etc. Conti's 'soft' compound is on par with MaxxTerra (if I recall, it might have been slightly firmer on my durometer). Which is why you always hear "Conti's last so long". Their Soft compound, for instance, is not really 'soft' when compared across other brands.
Would be nice to see a truly soft compound available for the public. Given how much traction the publicly available Super Soft supplies, a softer version would likely be amazing.
Following will be lots of comments like: - Hot garbage! Ran through 2 sets of tires in one day. Worst time of my life...
😏
Brian cahal did mention in one of his videos early last year when he was racing the EDRs, moi moi said conti gave them softer compounds.
But I'm pretty sure every brand does that, schwalbe is open about it and racers have mentioned testing compounds pre-season, I'd assume the same for maxxis as well with all their test pilot tires (even before the New DH hotpatch). Conti definitely the hardest compound out there, I had two pairs from the first release (Mix of soft + ultrasoft, enduro and DH casing) and it seems like they've only gotten harder compound wise over time for the current batches. Switched to radials and never looked back
I have ridden Conti's SuperSoft and Soft compound tires and find the SuperSoft perfect for anything, including wet rocks and roots. I wouldn't need any tackier even in the east coast. And they last forever. My previous tires were E13's TRS AT with Mopo compound which were as grippy but used faster.
2 years ago I picked up a pair of race leftover Argotals that Conti was giving away (probably used for only one run) and altough I ended up not riding them, when they were resting on the ground for a few days, I could feel the tires litterally stick to the ground. I should have used my durometer to check, but it was definitely tackier than the SS compound that's for sale.
There's the "they last forever" I was looking for 😉
Of course they do, they're not a soft compound haha.
As I said earlier. The grip that Conti's "Super Soft" provides is VERY good. Other brands compounds, when that hard, are not as grippy. So they do have some magic going on with their compound, other than just 'softness'.
That said, it's known that softer compounds do provide further grip enhancement, which is why the pros are all getting ACTUAL 'super soft' compounds on their tires.
Again, when looking at Contis, their "Soft" compound is not soft. It's as firm as most XC tire compounds from other brands, which is why "they last forever". People think they're actually riding a soft compound, like MaxxGrip or T9, so they're comparing against that. Which is not apples to apples. If Conti actually gave consumers the true super soft compound, they'd likely be the grippiest tires on the market and would not 'last forever'.
sure would be cool if they released them to the public...
Yeah they have insane 'mechanical grip' but the 'chemical grip' (compound) isn't there. That's part of the reason why I switched away, in the dry the tire is absolutely insane, however when it gets wet and especially when it gets wet and steep, it leaves a little to be desired. With MM Radials I can monster truck over wet root and not give a shit, was struggling with my argotal and kryptotals on the same trails in the wet.
I do think I'd switch back to conti if they actually dropped that special compound, the kryptotal thread pattern is my favourite since compared to the assegai and similiar 'assegai style' tires, you get feedback of how much grip you have. The assegai doesn't really tell you where you are by feel and I hate it but the grip is good, so I'd rather run a mid-spike for that 'feedback'. The people I ride with think I'm weird and everybody else loves the assegai, maybe I am just weird lol
I haven't seen anyone comparing Conti soft vs Maxxis maxxgrip, but rather Conti Super Soft to maxxis maxxgrip and conti soft to maxxis maxxterra.
It's not a 1:1 regardless, but it's more aligned with one another.
Assegai is losing some ground to these mid spikes. People are waking up to how well designed they are for a wide variety of conditions and the payoff in truly adverse conditions more than makes up for any perceived lacking in the hard packed stuff
This makes so much sense. Now I know!!! This whole time I could have been as fast as Gwin if I'd had access to the softer tire compounds.
actually, faster...
I onetime used my boy asa's grips. dropped that guy so quick. rubber matters
Yes, correct.
So for those following, I bought some radials when they were on sale. My question is, should I put them on my natural bike or ebike?
Will my radial albert+MM roll more slowly than a DHR2+Assegai?
No, I went from a Assegai + DHR2 (Both maxxgrip) to a MM + Albert and didn't think it rolled any slower.
I ran 22/24 psi on the maxxis setup and 24/28 on the schwalbe setup and am 88kg.
Anyone run the new Specialized Eliminator as a front tire? The refreshed eliminator looks a lot more like the new dissector and wonder if would serve as good a light trail duty front tire on the Ripley.
The old eliminator was awesome as a downcountry front, I’m sure the new one is even better. I’m loving my dissector though, it’s the lowest spec version but it’s pretty damn good.
Tire nerds, I need some help. This HR3 has been stored indoors all winter and only had 6 rides in the fall, what could be causing this cracking in the sidewall? I did notice the rubber is stiffer to the touch as well. Please excuse my ignorance as I have had this cracking in the past with Maxxis however the rubber remained soft
Just warranty it.
My HR3 cracked at the base of every single knob with 5 rides on it
Totally agree on your thoughts on "chemical grip" - I find that a Mary US has is maybe slightly stiffer rubber than Assegai MG, but the Maxxis rubber feels more like silicone bath sealant and really conforms, whereas the Schwalbe rubber almost feels like it has sand in it, so even if it doesn't mould to wet roots as well, it is far more predictable. I found the Argo digs into soft soil amazingly and is like a cheat mode, but soft soil often comes with wet roots, and it's got similar unpredictability to the Maxxis rubber (plus the I find the knobs too tall). On the back, I'm less fussed about the last degree of wet grip and really like the Krypto, which does indeed last forever
Can anyone compare Specialized Grid Trail casing to Conti Enduro casing? Stiffness, puncture protection, feel. How about comparing T7 to Conti Soft, and T9 to Conti Super Soft?
Post a reply to: Tire chat (nerds only)