The Bikeconomics (Mega)Thread

jeff.brines
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11/20/2025 5:48am
Actually, now that I've had a few minutes to think about it, I'm guessing the people handling the insolvency of the "old" YT told them to...

Actually, now that I've had a few minutes to think about it, I'm guessing the people handling the insolvency of the "old" YT told them to liquidate the inventory. There was probably money owed to Germany for those bikes. With money owed to creditors that has to be paid, they needed whatever YT USA could get for them. No warranty since at that point Markus's new deal hadn't been announced. 

As far as the mill concept being dead... I wonder if we see a scaled back version at some point? Not so big and over the top.. Think more along the lines of a Specialized or Trek company store.. Keep them in key areas, but handle online orders from a separate warehouse..

Markus mentioned an omni-channel program.. That's basically what most brands are doing now..  But, I know of one company that primarily a D2C deal that offers bike shops the chance to be a dealer,  however the margins they offer the shops is terrible. Barely a break even deal after shipping and time spent building the bike. 

However he moves forward, it will be interesting to see..

Small housekeeping note: we recorded a pod yesterday on the whole YT kerfuffle, and I’m hopeful it drops soon. We cover pretty much everything y'all are talking about right now (except the part where I say “umm” and “you know” way too much… I’ll work on that 😬). One thing nobody touched, though, was this "ominchannel" sales disclosure.

My two cents: I’d be shocked if Markus actually pulls this off. He’s already boxed in on margin and price point. I’ve written about this elsewhere, but if he raises prices, the bikes lose their appeal. At the same time, the company has struggled to push real profitability to the bottom line. 

If you open the door to bike shops, you have to give up margin, margin he doesn’t have unless prices go up, which...see above. This is why I wasn’t surprised to see him cutting back the mills and distribution centers in favor of bringing more inside and cutting middlemen wherever he can. Protect margin wherever possible and cut expenses you don’t need.

Not saying this is 'good' or 'bad', just calling out what I see from a finance nerd perspective. 

19
sspomer
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11/20/2025 7:17am Edited Date/Time 11/20/2025 11:48am

The podcast with Jeff and Sponsel can be listened to below (or on any of your fave podcast channels...will hit homepage shortly, too)

Topics Discussed

0:00 - Intro

1:22 - History of YT (note: Bentonville Mill was opened in 2024, not 2019)

16:38 - Disclaimers

19:27 - Restructuring/Bankruptcy Timeline

26:55 - Markus Flossmann’s Instagram Q&A Replies

30:44 - Is Markus a Sole Proprietor Now?

32:46 - Difference Between Debt and Equity

38:16 - YT’s Interesting Debt

41:48 - Did Big Spending Catch Up with YT?

47:09 - What About YT USA?

53:39 - Did the Change to In-House Bike Assembly Crush YT?

1:00:27 - How Will YT Have to Operate Now?

1:06:11 - YT and Marketing - Turning Negative into Positive?

1:09:39 - Will Markus Make Everyone Owed Money Whole?

1:13:25 - Markus Flossmann and His Public Persona

1:23:11 - Will Future Customers Actually Care About Any of This?

1:25:42 - YT Future Hurdles

1:33:07 - The Christopher Walken Jeffsy Video

1:41:27 - Bike Culture vs. Tech Bro Culture

17
11/20/2025 7:42am

Sweet... Something else to listen to on a 6 hour flight later today..

3
sspomer
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11/20/2025 8:09am

 just wanted to reply to @casey79 from a day or two ago regarding media outlets avoiding the topic b/c of future ad dollars. hopefully the podcast we posted addresses your thoughts about that and vital. some things take time to sort out properly. on the flipside though, that's why i love our community here...everyone is reporting things in near real-time and there is a huge talent pool of expertise to offer insights/info/opinion for any viewer to see.

fwiw (not that it really matters), our ad agreement was with YT USA only apparently (just learned that yesterday).

16
hogfly
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11/20/2025 8:53am

I believe Jeff's timeline is off on the opening of the Mills. The Bentonville Mill didn't officially open until 2024 (though it had been operating for a bit in the prior year). I think on the podcast, he puts it at 2021. I'm unsure on the other Mill location dates, though.

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jeff.brines
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11/20/2025 9:07am
hogfly wrote:
I believe Jeff's timeline is off on the opening of the Mills. The Bentonville Mill didn't officially open until 2024 (though it had been operating for...

I believe Jeff's timeline is off on the opening of the Mills. The Bentonville Mill didn't officially open until 2024 (though it had been operating for a bit in the prior year). I think on the podcast, he puts it at 2021. I'm unsure on the other Mill location dates, though.

Good catch. My notes had it right, my frazzled podcast brain had it wrong.

San Clemente opened around 2019 
Guilford UK late 2020
Bentonville Mill was announced in 2023, opened in 2024

 

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LePigPen
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11/20/2025 9:39am

(me arriving to Robot's scorched earth segment on Mr CEO) 🍿👄🍿

need an unhinged guest on the pod to egg him on 😂 

Christopher Walken > Aaron Gwin in the mans mind... jeez

love Brines calling out the 'tech bro' mentality... in a biking world (but seriously what other bike industry person acts like this? even our eccentrics tend to keep things within the core of riding)

4
sspomer
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11/20/2025 11:36am

FELT (former sponsor of @TEAMROBOT ) purchased from Pierer Mobility Group by Cesar Rojo and Florian Burguet - their PR below

Thursday November 20th, 2025
Barcelona, Spain
FELT Bicycles now 100% owned by current leadership team

FELT Bicycles is pleased to announce that its current management team and minority shareholders, Florian Burguet and Cesar Rojo, have entered into a purchase agreement with the Pierer Mobility Group, soon to be renamed Bajaj Mobility Group, that will result in them taking 100 percent ownership of the business, completing a process that began at the end of 2023. The purchase agreement covers the FELT global trademarks as well as the North American and Spanish operations.

As FELT approaches its 35th anniversary in 2026, our mission remains clear and unchanged: to build a high-performance bike business focused on a global network of expert shops, high- margin products, and authentic engagement with the core riding community.

From our headquarters in Barcelona, Spain, the two owners are steering FELT’s evolution. On the commercial side, dealer partners remain our sole focus. By investing in infrastructure, systems, and logistics, FELT will continue to strengthen supply chain resilience, enhance dealer support, and elevate consumer experiences. On the product side, the pipeline is full of exciting developments. In Spring 2026, FELT will launch two new benchmarking platforms in aero and gravel, the first bikes fully engineered by our new R&D team in Barcelona, Spain.

Energized by a fresh Ironman World Championship title in Kona, the FELT team is proud of its heritage and excited for the journey ahead.

Speed to be FELT
Cesar Rojo and Florian Burguet
 

3
metadave
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11/20/2025 11:43am
sspomer wrote:
FELT (former sponsor of @TEAMROBOT ) purchased from Pierer Mobility Group by Cesar Rojo and Florian Burguet - their PR belowThursday November 20th, 2025Barcelona, SpainFELT Bicycles...

FELT (former sponsor of @TEAMROBOT ) purchased from Pierer Mobility Group by Cesar Rojo and Florian Burguet - their PR below

Thursday November 20th, 2025
Barcelona, Spain
FELT Bicycles now 100% owned by current leadership team

FELT Bicycles is pleased to announce that its current management team and minority shareholders, Florian Burguet and Cesar Rojo, have entered into a purchase agreement with the Pierer Mobility Group, soon to be renamed Bajaj Mobility Group, that will result in them taking 100 percent ownership of the business, completing a process that began at the end of 2023. The purchase agreement covers the FELT global trademarks as well as the North American and Spanish operations.

As FELT approaches its 35th anniversary in 2026, our mission remains clear and unchanged: to build a high-performance bike business focused on a global network of expert shops, high- margin products, and authentic engagement with the core riding community.

From our headquarters in Barcelona, Spain, the two owners are steering FELT’s evolution. On the commercial side, dealer partners remain our sole focus. By investing in infrastructure, systems, and logistics, FELT will continue to strengthen supply chain resilience, enhance dealer support, and elevate consumer experiences. On the product side, the pipeline is full of exciting developments. In Spring 2026, FELT will launch two new benchmarking platforms in aero and gravel, the first bikes fully engineered by our new R&D team in Barcelona, Spain.

Energized by a fresh Ironman World Championship title in Kona, the FELT team is proud of its heritage and excited for the journey ahead.

Speed to be FELT
Cesar Rojo and Florian Burguet
 

That's actually some interesting news. Does Cesar push felt into the real MTB world or use it as the road arm?

3
11/20/2025 12:21pm

Felt still has a decent brand recognition in gravel, triathlon and track. I could see them go back to XC with a new Cesar design but most likely the focus will be to revamp their road lineup quickly.

And even though Felt were some of the first on the XC flexstay bandwagon it would be hard to make a mark in the current ocean of flexstay XC bike. Now that the initial VPP patent and DW-Link patent are expired, I could see Cesar have a go at a modern short twin link XC bike like he did for the current gen Rocky Altitude.

3
owl-x
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11/20/2025 1:25pm

1h45m and not once did you three call him anything but “Markus.”  

 

1
6
63expert
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11/20/2025 4:03pm
owl-x wrote:

1h45m and not once did you three call him anything but “Markus.”  

 

What should they have called him?


Exalted Potentate ?

1
boozed
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11/20/2025 4:12pm
Actually, now that I've had a few minutes to think about it, I'm guessing the people handling the insolvency of the "old" YT told them to...

Actually, now that I've had a few minutes to think about it, I'm guessing the people handling the insolvency of the "old" YT told them to liquidate the inventory. There was probably money owed to Germany for those bikes. With money owed to creditors that has to be paid, they needed whatever YT USA could get for them. No warranty since at that point Markus's new deal hadn't been announced. 

As far as the mill concept being dead... I wonder if we see a scaled back version at some point? Not so big and over the top.. Think more along the lines of a Specialized or Trek company store.. Keep them in key areas, but handle online orders from a separate warehouse..

Markus mentioned an omni-channel program.. That's basically what most brands are doing now..  But, I know of one company that primarily a D2C deal that offers bike shops the chance to be a dealer,  however the margins they offer the shops is terrible. Barely a break even deal after shipping and time spent building the bike. 

However he moves forward, it will be interesting to see..

Small housekeeping note: we recorded a pod yesterday on the whole YT kerfuffle, and I’m hopeful it drops soon. We cover pretty much everything y'all are...

Small housekeeping note: we recorded a pod yesterday on the whole YT kerfuffle, and I’m hopeful it drops soon. We cover pretty much everything y'all are talking about right now (except the part where I say “umm” and “you know” way too much… I’ll work on that 😬). One thing nobody touched, though, was this "ominchannel" sales disclosure.

My two cents: I’d be shocked if Markus actually pulls this off. He’s already boxed in on margin and price point. I’ve written about this elsewhere, but if he raises prices, the bikes lose their appeal. At the same time, the company has struggled to push real profitability to the bottom line. 

If you open the door to bike shops, you have to give up margin, margin he doesn’t have unless prices go up, which...see above. This is why I wasn’t surprised to see him cutting back the mills and distribution centers in favor of bringing more inside and cutting middlemen wherever he can. Protect margin wherever possible and cut expenses you don’t need.

Not saying this is 'good' or 'bad', just calling out what I see from a finance nerd perspective. 

We already saw this in Australia; when Pushy's became YT's local importer/retailer the prices became significantly less competitive.  That deal fell over at the beginning of the year and YT was due to move over to Bikes Online, but they'd evidently passed the point of no return by then so it never happened.

2
TEAMROBOT
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11/20/2025 5:40pm
63expert wrote:

What should they have called him?


Exalted Potentate ?

lol, missed opportunity 

1
11/20/2025 5:56pm

The podcast was the perfect length for my first flight... Good stuff.. We will have to revisit this in the future..

1
ballz
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11/20/2025 8:09pm
owl-x wrote:

1h45m and not once did you three call him anything but “Markus.”  

 

63expert wrote:

What should they have called him?


Exalted Potentate ?

Biggus Dickus. 

1
LePigPen
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11/20/2025 8:12pm
owl-x wrote:

1h45m and not once did you three call him anything but “Markus.”  

 

63expert wrote:

What should they have called him?


Exalted Potentate ?

ballz wrote:

Biggus Dickus. 

He has a sister you knoowww...

1
metadave
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11/20/2025 10:04pm Edited Date/Time 11/20/2025 10:04pm
1llumA wrote:
Felt still has a decent brand recognition in gravel, triathlon and track. I could see them go back to XC with a new Cesar design but...

Felt still has a decent brand recognition in gravel, triathlon and track. I could see them go back to XC with a new Cesar design but most likely the focus will be to revamp their road lineup quickly.

And even though Felt were some of the first on the XC flexstay bandwagon it would be hard to make a mark in the current ocean of flexstay XC bike. Now that the initial VPP patent and DW-Link patent are expired, I could see Cesar have a go at a modern short twin link XC bike like he did for the current gen Rocky Altitude.

Did Cesar have input on the current altitude? The 2 best bikes I've ever owned, were my 2017 Intense Tracer and my current Altitude as they certainly have similar trail manners. 

If so, I'd trust anything coming out of Cero design and a 120mm DC bike coming from felt would be a good time

1
11/20/2025 10:36pm

From facebook

"YT Industries: Unfortunately, we can not offer warranty on bikes purchased from Jenson USA."

Seems like the story is changing already.

8
TEAMROBOT
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11/20/2025 10:46pm

From facebook

"YT Industries: Unfortunately, we can not offer warranty on bikes purchased from Jenson USA."

Seems like the story is changing already.

That's bananas.

9
LePigPen
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11/20/2025 11:27pm

Can not? Will not? 

Won't even offer a good faith program for bike discounts for previous customers?

Too busy being salty about making a mess of the YT US negotiations and going out of your way to punish everyone involved including customers? (but srsly why phrase it as can not, like legally? what would be the functional issue?)

Anything happens to this frame (bought from the Mill, not Jenson) I'm not even bothering contacting that dork 🤦‍♂️ luckily really common measurements, just grab a Stumpy or whatever trail frame is laying around

2
Cardailles
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11/21/2025 12:00am

 On the YT story, one point to add is the relationship with the supplier. 

It look like YT left behing a lot of debt to supplier, as i am working everyday with the same supplier, it will not be easy for the brand to come back like nothing happen to them. 

https://www.bike-eu.com/51108/taiwanese-suppliers-count-up-millions-in-losses-as-yt-industries-reboots

 

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Primoz
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11/21/2025 12:44am
LePigPen wrote:
Can not? Will not? Won't even offer a good faith program for bike discounts for previous customers?Too busy being salty about making a mess of the YT...

Can not? Will not? 

Won't even offer a good faith program for bike discounts for previous customers?

Too busy being salty about making a mess of the YT US negotiations and going out of your way to punish everyone involved including customers? (but srsly why phrase it as can not, like legally? what would be the functional issue?)

Anything happens to this frame (bought from the Mill, not Jenson) I'm not even bothering contacting that dork 🤦‍♂️ luckily really common measurements, just grab a Stumpy or whatever trail frame is laying around

Considering the Forge+Bond fallout, I think there are a lot of things you CAN do. But choose not to, so I would lean towards will not. Based on the F+B, I guess legally it's not an issue, otherwise I would guess it also could be a can not situation. But I guess there is no limit on the goodness of a company to honor warranties of another company if they choose to. Unless the specifics of YT (not completely disconnected from the old bankrupt company) limit this in some way? 

1
sethimus
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11/21/2025 4:02am Edited Date/Time 11/21/2025 4:03am
LePigPen wrote:
Can not? Will not? Won't even offer a good faith program for bike discounts for previous customers?Too busy being salty about making a mess of the YT...

Can not? Will not? 

Won't even offer a good faith program for bike discounts for previous customers?

Too busy being salty about making a mess of the YT US negotiations and going out of your way to punish everyone involved including customers? (but srsly why phrase it as can not, like legally? what would be the functional issue?)

Anything happens to this frame (bought from the Mill, not Jenson) I'm not even bothering contacting that dork 🤦‍♂️ luckily really common measurements, just grab a Stumpy or whatever trail frame is laying around

this is only a problem because of your weak consumer protection laws, in europe, jenson would be the one to provide the mandatory 2 year warranty 

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6
63expert
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11/21/2025 4:28am Edited Date/Time 11/21/2025 4:28am

From facebook

"YT Industries: Unfortunately, we can not offer warranty on bikes purchased from Jenson USA."

Seems like the story is changing already.

TEAMROBOT wrote:

That's bananas.

How to shit on your own brand new company in one easy step. 

4
11/21/2025 5:27am

It seems to be ridiculous that they can't simply ask for a proof of purchase and move forward with the claim. You know, the way most other bike brands handle warranty claims..Yes, you may have to go through a dealer, but to straight up say they won't warranty what seems to be a relatively small number of bikes is definitely seems to be shooting yourself in the foot.. Multiple times..

4
11/21/2025 5:36am
LePigPen wrote:
Can not? Will not? Won't even offer a good faith program for bike discounts for previous customers?Too busy being salty about making a mess of the YT...

Can not? Will not? 

Won't even offer a good faith program for bike discounts for previous customers?

Too busy being salty about making a mess of the YT US negotiations and going out of your way to punish everyone involved including customers? (but srsly why phrase it as can not, like legally? what would be the functional issue?)

Anything happens to this frame (bought from the Mill, not Jenson) I'm not even bothering contacting that dork 🤦‍♂️ luckily really common measurements, just grab a Stumpy or whatever trail frame is laying around

sethimus wrote:

this is only a problem because of your weak consumer protection laws, in europe, jenson would be the one to provide the mandatory 2 year warranty 

Once upon a time in the us if something sucked you got your money back.  I’d love to see it codified into law cause it’s definitely no longer the norm for how businesses operate.  Now they sell you a warranty on top of your purchase and even then make the whole process a bunch of hoops for the consumer to jump thru.


way back when Marcus first announced a new ceo the top comment was along the lines of “does this mean you will fix your warranty and customer service issues”.  It’s never been a priority for Marcus.  And given the predicament he currently finds himself in honoring old warranties seems a quick way to drain what funds and product he has when no one in the industry or the traditional banking world is going to extend him a large line of credit.  

Just more bs from the fleeceman.  

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jeff.brines
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11/21/2025 5:42am Edited Date/Time 11/21/2025 6:25am
It seems to be ridiculous that they can't simply ask for a proof of purchase and move forward with the claim. You know, the way most...

It seems to be ridiculous that they can't simply ask for a proof of purchase and move forward with the claim. You know, the way most other bike brands handle warranty claims..Yes, you may have to go through a dealer, but to straight up say they won't warranty what seems to be a relatively small number of bikes is definitely seems to be shooting yourself in the foot.. Multiple times..

There is absolutely no reason YT can’t pull this off.

I mentioned this on the pod, but Markus and YT have a real opportunity right now to rebuild trust. That only happens if Markus opens the checkbook. Sitting in a Bond-villain mansion surrounded by supercars while employees are left hanging, vendors remain unpaid, athletes aren’t made whole, and customers are told they have no warranty is a guaranteed way to tank this comeback. Vendors would probably even accept a structured payment plan (hear that, Markus? You get to keep the cars).

One thing I’m certain of (mentioned it on the pod): YT will need the tightest logistics operation in the industry. Supply chain robustness on an Amazon level. This is why I thought Sam Nichols might have been a decent hire...though who knows what he actually did at Amazon. Customer comes first. Then offload risk anywhere you can’t handle it internally while keeping margin front and center. 

This doesn't matter, and will sound delusional, but I genuinely wish I was in his position. While there are things I clearly don't know, I do have a pretty good sense of what it would take from a capital perspective, some of the challenges ahead, and the kinds of deals needed to make this work long-term. What Markus does have is a legitimately strong product line, established distribution, and solid brand awareness. I feel this takes a decade to build. 

There’s a cost beyond simply buying the company, and Markus will have to shoulder it. I guarantee its managable, though. 

EDIT: One of my mentors keeps beating into my head that the first two things you always care about are your customers and employees. Then you do the rest of everything. I think (know) he's right. Markus...can you do the Scrooge thing and change your ways?! (jeff holding his breath...)

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