Tire chat (nerds only)

Primoz
Posts
4676
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
SI
10/9/2025 12:21am

Pirelli is moving the production in house? They were previously made by Panaracer, right? 

AndehM
Posts
791
Joined
5/7/2018
Location
El Granada, CA, USA
Fantasy
10/13/2025 2:27pm

Anyone spent much time with a HR3 in the rear?  I'm a huge fan of it for my conditions in the front, but kinda curious how it'd do out back.  My main complaint with a DHR2 in the back is how fast it wears down in our soils - the braking grip drops off dramatically once the knobs wear down to the point where the sipes start fading, which is only like a couple months here.  

I'm really looking forward to trying whatever the mystery Maxxis tire is - looks like it has a lot of things I like about both the HR3 and DHR2.  I could see running that tire front & rear year round here.

ebruner
Posts
417
Joined
3/29/2018
Location
Tustin, CA, USA
10/13/2025 2:36pm
AndehM wrote:
Anyone spent much time with a HR3 in the rear?  I'm a huge fan of it for my conditions in the front, but kinda curious how...

Anyone spent much time with a HR3 in the rear?  I'm a huge fan of it for my conditions in the front, but kinda curious how it'd do out back.  My main complaint with a DHR2 in the back is how fast it wears down in our soils - the braking grip drops off dramatically once the knobs wear down to the point where the sipes start fading, which is only like a couple months here.  

I'm really looking forward to trying whatever the mystery Maxxis tire is - looks like it has a lot of things I like about both the HR3 and DHR2.  I could see running that tire front & rear year round here.

I have, it was excellent but didn't last long at all... mostly because the HR3 is only available in maxx gripp.  For now, I am using the conti krypto rear dh soft for any application where I want dhr2 braking performance and side knob bite, but more penetration through dust/loose conditions and better wear.  

It pains me to run different tire mfg's front and rear, digs at my ocd for sure.  That being said, DD hr3 maxx grip front, dh soft krypto rear in back is (*chefs kiss*) magical.

6
AndehM
Posts
791
Joined
5/7/2018
Location
El Granada, CA, USA
Fantasy
10/13/2025 4:00pm
AndehM wrote:
Anyone spent much time with a HR3 in the rear?  I'm a huge fan of it for my conditions in the front, but kinda curious how...

Anyone spent much time with a HR3 in the rear?  I'm a huge fan of it for my conditions in the front, but kinda curious how it'd do out back.  My main complaint with a DHR2 in the back is how fast it wears down in our soils - the braking grip drops off dramatically once the knobs wear down to the point where the sipes start fading, which is only like a couple months here.  

I'm really looking forward to trying whatever the mystery Maxxis tire is - looks like it has a lot of things I like about both the HR3 and DHR2.  I could see running that tire front & rear year round here.

ebruner wrote:
I have, it was excellent but didn't last long at all... mostly because the HR3 is only available in maxx gripp.  For now, I am using...

I have, it was excellent but didn't last long at all... mostly because the HR3 is only available in maxx gripp.  For now, I am using the conti krypto rear dh soft for any application where I want dhr2 braking performance and side knob bite, but more penetration through dust/loose conditions and better wear.  

It pains me to run different tire mfg's front and rear, digs at my ocd for sure.  That being said, DD hr3 maxx grip front, dh soft krypto rear in back is (*chefs kiss*) magical.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking of doing also... maybe bust out the Sharpie paint pen to calm my OCD.

Primoz
Posts
4676
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
SI
10/13/2025 11:21pm
AndehM wrote:
Anyone spent much time with a HR3 in the rear?  I'm a huge fan of it for my conditions in the front, but kinda curious how...

Anyone spent much time with a HR3 in the rear?  I'm a huge fan of it for my conditions in the front, but kinda curious how it'd do out back.  My main complaint with a DHR2 in the back is how fast it wears down in our soils - the braking grip drops off dramatically once the knobs wear down to the point where the sipes start fading, which is only like a couple months here.  

I'm really looking forward to trying whatever the mystery Maxxis tire is - looks like it has a lot of things I like about both the HR3 and DHR2.  I could see running that tire front & rear year round here.

ebruner wrote:
I have, it was excellent but didn't last long at all... mostly because the HR3 is only available in maxx gripp.  For now, I am using...

I have, it was excellent but didn't last long at all... mostly because the HR3 is only available in maxx gripp.  For now, I am using the conti krypto rear dh soft for any application where I want dhr2 braking performance and side knob bite, but more penetration through dust/loose conditions and better wear.  

It pains me to run different tire mfg's front and rear, digs at my ocd for sure.  That being said, DD hr3 maxx grip front, dh soft krypto rear in back is (*chefs kiss*) magical.

AndehM wrote:

Yeah, that's what I was thinking of doing also... maybe bust out the Sharpie paint pen to calm my OCD.

If you know, you know... 

Cougar797
Posts
100
Joined
7/25/2012
Location
Bentonville, AR, USA
10/14/2025 6:20am

So I need some other opinions to make sure I'm not crazy or having a one off experience. I got a chance to mount up a muddy mary gravity pro radial to take on a bike park trip last month. I found the tire to not only ride and track well but to be the absolute easiest to install DH tire I've touched in a decade. Anyone else found the new gravity pro Schwalbe's to be easy to work with or was it just a lucky thing? 

10/14/2025 7:55am Edited Date/Time 10/14/2025 7:56am
Cougar797 wrote:
So I need some other opinions to make sure I'm not crazy or having a one off experience. I got a chance to mount up a...

So I need some other opinions to make sure I'm not crazy or having a one off experience. I got a chance to mount up a muddy mary gravity pro radial to take on a bike park trip last month. I found the tire to not only ride and track well but to be the absolute easiest to install DH tire I've touched in a decade. Anyone else found the new gravity pro Schwalbe's to be easy to work with or was it just a lucky thing? 

Mary gravity was super easy, and my albert gravity was the hardest tire I’ve ever put on and taken out (dt fr541).

10/14/2025 9:29am
Cougar797 wrote:
So I need some other opinions to make sure I'm not crazy or having a one off experience. I got a chance to mount up a...

So I need some other opinions to make sure I'm not crazy or having a one off experience. I got a chance to mount up a muddy mary gravity pro radial to take on a bike park trip last month. I found the tire to not only ride and track well but to be the absolute easiest to install DH tire I've touched in a decade. Anyone else found the new gravity pro Schwalbe's to be easy to work with or was it just a lucky thing? 

Mary gravity was super easy, and my albert gravity was the hardest tire I’ve ever put on and taken out (dt fr541).

Same rim for both? same tape?
There is no difference between the bead core, and layup of the tires.

madsam9
Posts
60
Joined
6/11/2016
Location
IT
10/14/2025 11:33am
Cougar797 wrote:
So I need some other opinions to make sure I'm not crazy or having a one off experience. I got a chance to mount up a...

So I need some other opinions to make sure I'm not crazy or having a one off experience. I got a chance to mount up a muddy mary gravity pro radial to take on a bike park trip last month. I found the tire to not only ride and track well but to be the absolute easiest to install DH tire I've touched in a decade. Anyone else found the new gravity pro Schwalbe's to be easy to work with or was it just a lucky thing? 

I found it to be almost too easy, it was so loose that I had to use compressed air, which is something I never had to do with DH Continentals (which are a bit more of a pain to mount, especially with inserts). Next time I'll probably put it with an inner tube first to seat it on one side.

10/14/2025 11:50pm
Cougar797 wrote:
So I need some other opinions to make sure I'm not crazy or having a one off experience. I got a chance to mount up a...

So I need some other opinions to make sure I'm not crazy or having a one off experience. I got a chance to mount up a muddy mary gravity pro radial to take on a bike park trip last month. I found the tire to not only ride and track well but to be the absolute easiest to install DH tire I've touched in a decade. Anyone else found the new gravity pro Schwalbe's to be easy to work with or was it just a lucky thing? 

Mary gravity was super easy, and my albert gravity was the hardest tire I’ve ever put on and taken out (dt fr541).

schwalbai wrote:

Same rim for both? same tape?
There is no difference between the bead core, and layup of the tires.

Yea, same rim and same tape, FR541 and two layers of stans tape. Its even same after a summer of use, when others have been much looser after use.

10/15/2025 9:17am

Mary gravity was super easy, and my albert gravity was the hardest tire I’ve ever put on and taken out (dt fr541).

schwalbai wrote:

Same rim for both? same tape?
There is no difference between the bead core, and layup of the tires.

Yea, same rim and same tape, FR541 and two layers of stans tape. Its even same after a summer of use, when others have been much...

Yea, same rim and same tape, FR541 and two layers of stans tape. Its even same after a summer of use, when others have been much looser after use.

Two layers of Stans tape is a little generous for DT Swiss rims since they are typically bang-on with ETRTO spec. But otherwise nothing seems too off...
For context, the kevlar bead cores used among all folding MTB tires gets plucked off a rack, and then gets folded into a casing execution (Gravity in this case). Then the blank gets impressed and vulcanized into the tread pattern mold of choice.
Little chance for deviation among tread types with the same casing.

Regardless I hope both have preformed well for ya. 
Schwalbe North America has a warranty policy if things are seeming defective. 

4
10/26/2025 2:54am
thegromit wrote:
Honestly I am curious about this as well. I also would like to try the shredda rear for a front or shredda front trimmed a bit...

Honestly I am curious about this as well. I also would like to try the shredda rear for a front or shredda front trimmed a bit. Those tires look insane and probably aren't the best for what I ride but still want to ride them.

Did you trim the shredda ?


Noted a post from downamics and he’s cut a bit off them IMG 7006.png?VersionId=x0YxmiL6rJiZTfi

thegromit
Posts
246
Joined
11/19/2015
Location
Durango, CO, USA
Fantasy
10/27/2025 1:08am Edited Date/Time 10/27/2025 1:10am
thegromit wrote:
Honestly I am curious about this as well. I also would like to try the shredda rear for a front or shredda front trimmed a bit...

Honestly I am curious about this as well. I also would like to try the shredda rear for a front or shredda front trimmed a bit. Those tires look insane and probably aren't the best for what I ride but still want to ride them.

Sir HC wrote:
Did you trim the shredda ?Noted a post from downamics and he’s cut a bit off them

Did you trim the shredda ?


Noted a post from downamics and he’s cut a bit off them IMG 7006.png?VersionId=x0YxmiL6rJiZTfi

Yes I trimmed mine down. I wanted to try the radial but couldn’t find Mary’s. I got these for cheap because they say shredda rear on them. Page 31 has my post. 

sprungmass
Posts
240
Joined
3/1/2023
Location
Calgary, AB, CA
11/3/2025 12:45pm Edited Date/Time 11/4/2025 11:01am

The durability of the doubledown maxxterra dissector v2 isn't proving to be very good on the back of my RAAW Madonna. I have 7 big rides on it with total of 104km/6200M (64mi/20,000ft) and the side knobs are falling apart. Some of them are half torn and might fall off pretty soon. The center tread looks pretty fresh considering how bad the side knobs are. The Assegai Maxxgrip I installed at the same time looks almost brand new in comparison. My riding consists of rocky/loose/very steep trails in the Canadian Rockies. I am 165lb, ride aggressive but don't drag my rear tire.

Can anyone relate to this or do I have a lemon? I really love this tire but I can't spend $150 CAD every two weeks. Funny enough the Maxterra EXO version on my Stumpjumper flexstay does not show this tearing and almost looks brand new.

 

 

EDIT: this turned out to be a manufacturing defect and Maxxis has issued a replacement. Stoked to keep running this tire.

4
11/3/2025 2:26pm Edited Date/Time 11/3/2025 2:26pm
sprungmass wrote:
The new dissector looks pretty good! The side knobs are beefed up and the transition is filled in. The center knobs look highly ramped like Conti...

The new dissector looks pretty good! The side knobs are beefed up and the transition is filled in. The center knobs look highly ramped like Conti Xynotal. Will we finally have a well rounded fast rolling rear tire option from Maxxis?

The new DHF v2 + Dissector v2 would be a pretty solid fast rolling setup.

Link: https://www.maxxis.com/us/tire/dissector-2/

Images from Enduro MTB Mag

May be an image of bicycle and text

May be an image of bicycle

May be an image of bicycle

jasbushey wrote:

The real test will be if the side knobs last more than 3 rides. 

This post seems to have aged well.  Although a bit of a bummer, the tire looks like a cool tread.  I guess I'll stick with the Xynotol.  

3
bigbrett
Posts
64
Joined
9/5/2017
Location
Salt Lake City, UT, USA
11/3/2025 5:57pm

Yikes that’s not what you want to see. I just got a pair in maxxgrip EXO+ for use on the front - hopefully my experience is different. 
 

Somewhat relatedly, what do the tire nerds think of pairing the Dissector V2 in the front with the Xynotal (soft, enduro) in the rear for a fast-rolling short travel trail setup? 
 

2
11/4/2025 5:43am
sprungmass wrote:
The durability of the doubledown maxxterra dissector v2 isn't proving to be very good on the back of my RAAW Madonna. I have 7 big rides...

The durability of the doubledown maxxterra dissector v2 isn't proving to be very good on the back of my RAAW Madonna. I have 7 big rides on it with total of 104km/6200M (64mi/20,000ft) and the side knobs are falling apart. Some of them are half torn and might fall off pretty soon. The center tread looks pretty fresh considering how bad the side knobs are. The Assegai Maxxgrip I installed at the same time looks almost brand new in comparison. My riding consists of rocky/loose/very steep trails in the Canadian Rockies. I am 165lb, ride aggressive but don't drag my rear tire.

Can anyone relate to this or do I have a lemon? I really love this tire but I can't spend $150 CAD every two weeks. Funny enough the Maxterra EXO version on my Stumpjumper flexstay does not show this tearing and almost looks brand new.

 

 

EDIT: this turned out to be a manufacturing defect and Maxxis has issued a replacement. Stoked to keep running this tire.

Just sent you a DM. It shouldn't be wearing that fast. 

9
sprungmass
Posts
240
Joined
3/1/2023
Location
Calgary, AB, CA
11/4/2025 11:18am
sprungmass wrote:
The durability of the doubledown maxxterra dissector v2 isn't proving to be very good on the back of my RAAW Madonna. I have 7 big rides...

The durability of the doubledown maxxterra dissector v2 isn't proving to be very good on the back of my RAAW Madonna. I have 7 big rides on it with total of 104km/6200M (64mi/20,000ft) and the side knobs are falling apart. Some of them are half torn and might fall off pretty soon. The center tread looks pretty fresh considering how bad the side knobs are. The Assegai Maxxgrip I installed at the same time looks almost brand new in comparison. My riding consists of rocky/loose/very steep trails in the Canadian Rockies. I am 165lb, ride aggressive but don't drag my rear tire.

Can anyone relate to this or do I have a lemon? I really love this tire but I can't spend $150 CAD every two weeks. Funny enough the Maxterra EXO version on my Stumpjumper flexstay does not show this tearing and almost looks brand new.

 

 

EDIT: this turned out to be a manufacturing defect and Maxxis has issued a replacement. Stoked to keep running this tire.

Just sent you a DM. It shouldn't be wearing that fast. 

Thank you @ARonBurgundy Maxxis issued a replacement due to my tire being defective. Looking forward to riding a whole lot more on it!

10
Friday
Posts
33
Joined
4/25/2025
Location
Atlanta, GA, USA
11/4/2025 3:16pm

Switched up my light trail bike to Forekaster 2.4 Maxterra front and Ikon 2.2 maxxspeed rear. Honestly blow away how much grip this setup has, both braking and cornering. The local trails are all mild cross country loops, but still these tires kinda rip. 

2
11/4/2025 8:31pm Edited Date/Time 11/4/2025 8:32pm
Friday wrote:
Switched up my light trail bike to Forekaster 2.4 Maxterra front and Ikon 2.2 maxxspeed rear. Honestly blow away how much grip this setup has, both...

Switched up my light trail bike to Forekaster 2.4 Maxterra front and Ikon 2.2 maxxspeed rear. Honestly blow away how much grip this setup has, both braking and cornering. The local trails are all mild cross country loops, but still these tires kinda rip. 

That's cool to hear. Most of the stuff around me is also mild XC hardpack (and moondust) so it sounds like I'm in a similar position and can grab that little extra piece of info and put it in my back pocket for the future. Thanks for including the compound info!

I'm looking forward to the spring when I put on my just-got-'em-the-other-day Forekaster/Rekon MaxxTerra pair on. I suspect I'll be seeing snow soon so I'm going to keep my DHF/Aggressor combo for now.

LePigPen
Posts
1053
Joined
12/23/2020
Location
Harbor City, CA, USA
Fantasy
11/5/2025 11:08am

Slipping in for a selfish question. Looking to upgrade now. 200 pound rider who rides like shit (former BMXer, bad lines good times).

From what I've read, I'd like to try a DH krypto rear, and a radial DH Magic Mary(/Albert?) front (mullet). Only alternatives that I've seen but not understood much about would be High Roller 3 (apparently front and rear) or matching radials front and rear as well. (To be fair, I suppose I'll add in dual Conti... But I've heard better things about its rear performance, not as much its front.)

Current issues (same ones I've always had) are pinging rims way too much when running lower pressures for traction, as well as rear tire roll EVEN when at higher psi. So, goals are being able to run higher pressures with some traction retention (without the use of inserts).

(Not concerned about rolling resistance/speed. Not racing, up or down. Local conditions are SoCal hard pack or moon dust. Hero dirt is a theory to a person like me, something I imagine what it feels like, yet will never experience. Bike is a mid travel mullet, meant for all around riding.)

ebruner
Posts
417
Joined
3/29/2018
Location
Tustin, CA, USA
11/5/2025 11:41am
LePigPen wrote:
Slipping in for a selfish question. Looking to upgrade now. 200 pound rider who rides like shit (former BMXer, bad lines good times).From what I've read...

Slipping in for a selfish question. Looking to upgrade now. 200 pound rider who rides like shit (former BMXer, bad lines good times).

From what I've read, I'd like to try a DH krypto rear, and a radial DH Magic Mary(/Albert?) front (mullet). Only alternatives that I've seen but not understood much about would be High Roller 3 (apparently front and rear) or matching radials front and rear as well. (To be fair, I suppose I'll add in dual Conti... But I've heard better things about its rear performance, not as much its front.)

Current issues (same ones I've always had) are pinging rims way too much when running lower pressures for traction, as well as rear tire roll EVEN when at higher psi. So, goals are being able to run higher pressures with some traction retention (without the use of inserts).

(Not concerned about rolling resistance/speed. Not racing, up or down. Local conditions are SoCal hard pack or moon dust. Hero dirt is a theory to a person like me, something I imagine what it feels like, yet will never experience. Bike is a mid travel mullet, meant for all around riding.)

dh krypto soft rear, dd highroller 3 front for socal.  

3
11/5/2025 11:45am
LePigPen wrote:
Slipping in for a selfish question. Looking to upgrade now. 200 pound rider who rides like shit (former BMXer, bad lines good times).From what I've read...

Slipping in for a selfish question. Looking to upgrade now. 200 pound rider who rides like shit (former BMXer, bad lines good times).

From what I've read, I'd like to try a DH krypto rear, and a radial DH Magic Mary(/Albert?) front (mullet). Only alternatives that I've seen but not understood much about would be High Roller 3 (apparently front and rear) or matching radials front and rear as well. (To be fair, I suppose I'll add in dual Conti... But I've heard better things about its rear performance, not as much its front.)

Current issues (same ones I've always had) are pinging rims way too much when running lower pressures for traction, as well as rear tire roll EVEN when at higher psi. So, goals are being able to run higher pressures with some traction retention (without the use of inserts).

(Not concerned about rolling resistance/speed. Not racing, up or down. Local conditions are SoCal hard pack or moon dust. Hero dirt is a theory to a person like me, something I imagine what it feels like, yet will never experience. Bike is a mid travel mullet, meant for all around riding.)

big fan of radial magic mary front and tacky chan rear, but I could see why people may not get along with the mm radial upfront.

I think an underrated conti combo is the kryptotal front - in the front and rear. 

3
AndehM
Posts
791
Joined
5/7/2018
Location
El Granada, CA, USA
Fantasy
11/5/2025 11:46am
LePigPen wrote:
Slipping in for a selfish question. Looking to upgrade now. 200 pound rider who rides like shit (former BMXer, bad lines good times).From what I've read...

Slipping in for a selfish question. Looking to upgrade now. 200 pound rider who rides like shit (former BMXer, bad lines good times).

From what I've read, I'd like to try a DH krypto rear, and a radial DH Magic Mary(/Albert?) front (mullet). Only alternatives that I've seen but not understood much about would be High Roller 3 (apparently front and rear) or matching radials front and rear as well. (To be fair, I suppose I'll add in dual Conti... But I've heard better things about its rear performance, not as much its front.)

Current issues (same ones I've always had) are pinging rims way too much when running lower pressures for traction, as well as rear tire roll EVEN when at higher psi. So, goals are being able to run higher pressures with some traction retention (without the use of inserts).

(Not concerned about rolling resistance/speed. Not racing, up or down. Local conditions are SoCal hard pack or moon dust. Hero dirt is a theory to a person like me, something I imagine what it feels like, yet will never experience. Bike is a mid travel mullet, meant for all around riding.)

What tires / casings are you currently running?

I'm up on the NorCal coast where local conditions look similar to what I've seen in SoCal videos - hardpack with a coating of powder / loose sand / gravel.  I personally found the MM to be too squirmy for this - the rubber itself is quite soft and the side knobs are pretty small.  I'd suggest taking a good hard look at the High Roller 3 in DH or at least DD.  The side knobs are burly, and the center tread is open enough to penetrate loose over hard (especially decomposed granite & gravel), but not too spiky to cause squirming when it's just hardpack.

2
jalopyj
Posts
113
Joined
10/23/2023
Location
Concord, CA, USA
Fantasy
11/5/2025 3:13pm Edited Date/Time 11/5/2025 3:18pm

Have had a few rides on radials.

MM trail pro US up front

Albert gravity pro soft rear.

Albert's feel like a much faster rolling assegai. Kind of reminds me of a more sure footed dissector v1/eliminator. Driftier than a DHRII which I kinda enjoy. We'll see how it handles on some steeper terrain as I'm moving from softer compound rubber to a "medium soft" compound. 

Need more time to formulate my opinion on MM's. They have the grip but a bit more vague than Assegai/E13 Grapplers I've run more recently. 

1
k2fx
Posts
11
Joined
5/17/2024
Location
Roanoke, VA, USA
11/6/2025 12:01pm
big fan of radial magic mary front and tacky chan rear, but I could see why people may not get along with the mm radial upfront.I...

big fan of radial magic mary front and tacky chan rear, but I could see why people may not get along with the mm radial upfront.

I think an underrated conti combo is the kryptotal front - in the front and rear. 

Literally just came to the forum today to ask about opinions on the dual krypto fr combo. I'm running krypto fr/xyno right now and it's fun till you hit the steep and loose stuff. I'd just get the krypto Re, but this way I could potentially run the same tire front and back while keeping a little of the zippiness from the Xyno. (Enduro/soft if you're wondering with a CC trail insert in the back, I'm 215 over here)

2
AndehM
Posts
791
Joined
5/7/2018
Location
El Granada, CA, USA
Fantasy
11/7/2025 8:46am
sspomer wrote:

@TEAMROBOT's favorite rear tire

 

Is the 2.5 a true 2.5?  I know the 2.4 version runs a bit narrow.  I haven't bothered getting the 2.5 version just because I run a 2.4 HR3 in the front.

Strictly comparing the 2.4 to 2.5, are there any differences in knob size, etc?

1
TEAMROBOT
Posts
1571
Joined
9/2/2009
Location
Los Angeles, CA, USA
Fantasy
11/7/2025 9:53am
AndehM wrote:
Is the 2.5 a true 2.5?  I know the 2.4 version runs a bit narrow.  I haven't bothered getting the 2.5 version just because I run...

Is the 2.5 a true 2.5?  I know the 2.4 version runs a bit narrow.  I haven't bothered getting the 2.5 version just because I run a 2.4 HR3 in the front.

Strictly comparing the 2.4 to 2.5, are there any differences in knob size, etc?

Yeah good question. The 2.5 DHR2 measured out at a true 63mm at the casing and 64mm at the knobs on my 30mm rear ethirteen rim, which is 2.48” and 2.52” respectively. So I’d say yes, that’s a true 2.5”. I always thought the 2.4” DHR2 was undersized and didn’t love it as a rear tire for that exact reason- I’m hard on rear wheels and tires and I want that extra volume as insurance for bad decisions. On the one hand, I feel like a crazy person if I say I can feel an additional 0.1” of tire width, but I think it’s a little more than that in practice. 

3
11/7/2025 11:48pm

I'm curious, why do you say you wouldn't pick the DHR for a race? And what type of race are we talking about, downhill or enduro? And what would be your pick for that? 😁

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