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Specialized trail casing is not skimpy.
Just got my gravity radials, MM US for front and Albert soft for the rear, gonna put them on tomorrow just in time for some wet weather, proper first test in wet roots and off-cambers. Never used schwalbes before so really looking forward to testing these.
If you like the DHF up front, the tacky chan will be similar but better braking, with less lean angle required to get it hooked up when cornering.
For trails I know well, I really enjoy tacky chans front and rear. For everything else, I go MM front and TC rear.
Grid Trail is at least as good as EXO+. I have never flatted that casing on the front or rear since I started running Specialized over Maxxis three years ago, but most of the time I'm on full gravity casing rear (have never flatted that casing, too).
I have the new Butcher/Eliminator combo mounted up now in full gravity 2.6/2.4 on an enduro bike, so will give some feedback in a few weeks.
Currently running magic Mary trail pro fr/albert gravity rear and I love the magic Mary but the Albert leaves a little to be desired for traction in loose dirt which is the majority of what I end up riding. It does roll great for how knobby it is though. Just ordered a tacky Chan to hopefully get back closer to dhr2 level braking traction.
I haven't tried the new Grid Trail casing, but the old ones really were made of paper. The new Grid Trail tires are a lot heavier than the old ones, the same way the new Bontrager tires are 200+ grams heavier too for the equivalent casing. The tough thing with Specialized tires is that they'll change things in their product line without changing the name at times. For instance, the Butcher has had multiple tread patterns, but they're all called the Butcher. Casings and rubber compounds change. At least they rolled out the T7 and T9 thing so we have some sense of a new rubber compound, but I think the T9 Cannibals are a different rubber than T9 Butchers.
The trail casing has been untouched since either 22 or 23. They are much burlier than before. I can get away with riding those on my trail bike if I am careful, I cant say the same about EXO+. I've been told, from a pretty reliable source, that the T9 is the same across all the tires. What makes the difference is the base rubber durometer and how much of the T9 is laid on top of the base compound. Everyone is using a harder/stiffer base rubber for support and the ratio of base to cap, T9 in this case, can have a very large influence in how the knobs flex and deform. From my own squish testing in the garage, the new butchers have more T9 and less base like the Cannibals as a way to generate more grip. As a result, they had to make the knobs physically much larger to withstand the resulting deformation of a bike being pushed through a corner. *The last two sentences are pure theory so take that with a grain of salt. Maybe we can get some tire brand experts to chime in...
Not sure if links to the other site are frowned upon here, but new Maxxis tread pattern.
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/spotted-new-maxxis-tire-on-jackson-goldstones-santa-cruz-v10.html
Looks like it could be a DHF 2 and maybe bridge the gap between Asagai and HR3.
picture of the tread pattern for anyone who is too lazy to click the link.
Isn't Conti's approach the exact opposite, soft innards and harder wearing outside layer?
Don’t believe so, but I’ll try to confirm, I have more tires in my garage than I could probably ever ride in the next few years, might be worth hacking a few up to measure durometer across the knob layer… I have one or two of the softs and a few pairs of the SS dh casing. This just a selection of what’s sitting out…
You're welcome to mail me some of those tires if you have too many.
Any sight of new radials at Eurobike?
I'm a Maxxis guy but I let my 130 lb. 15 y.o. boy pick out a new rear tire and he went with a Continental Kryptotal rear DH SS 29 mounted on a 541 with cushcore. Ran 25 lbs. since it's wet here in Whistler. He burped it and flatted. Luckily it was at the bottom and he said he heard a rim ding noise on the berm after the last jump on A-line and thought it came from his front rim. He does a better job bringing his whips back than I do, I weigh 150, run a 27.5 DHRII DH 2.5 no insert on a 511 with 24lbs and I never burp. Was getting this tire a mistake? If he has to run 30 lbs, which is normal for him it was my idea to run 25 today, why bother with the cushcore? He ran a Tanus insert last year with DH DHRII and flatted that. Would have got him a DHRII if we could have found him a maxxterra 2.5. He picked the SS based on the promise of better wear than a maxxgrip.
I go back and forth between those exact two tires as my rear tire on different wheelsets (Continental Kryptotal rear DH SS vs. Maxxis DHRII DH 2.5) and I have to run 3-4 psi more on the Conti to get the same ride feel, no folding in turns, not dinging rims or bottoming out tires. It just seems like the Conti DH casing is a little more pliable. YMMV. And yes, you heard right, the slow tire wear on the rear SS Conti is pretty great. I'm trying out a Maxxis DHRII DH 2.5 in MaxxTerra to see if that lasts a little longer, while being more damped and grippy than a Maxxis Dual Compound tire. Will report back soon.
How’s the grip of the MaxxTerra in the rear? It’s been a minute since I’ve ridden one of those
To me available traction goes something like MaxxGrip, Conti Supersoft, Spec T9, MaxxTerra and then Spec T7.
Maxxis burns up fast, Conti and Spec don’t. Cold wet New England riding I only want the MaxxGrip. Conti performance drops a lot with the temperature. Spec does as well, just not as much I feel.
Tire pressure low to high for me is Maxxis, Spec then Conti, roughly 2psi per brand on 27.5 30mm internal rims. Being that I’m sensitive to tire squirm and sidewalls getting grabbed by sharper rocks I have no interest in the new radial stuff from Schwalbe, the old purple stripe super soft Magic Mary burned up even faster than MaxxGrip but was somehow still not good in the cooler temps.
Fine so far, but can't really say because I've only ridden in SoCal summer dry. Grip really shows up in the wet, and I think harder tires oftentimes feel better on the concrete-like hardpack down here, especially in the rear. I will say that the MaxxTerra rear tire feels more damped than a Dual Compound, which is nice, and that probably bodes well for grip. More info coming soon.
My take is that unless you're in the PNW or somewhere else that's notoriously damp and rocky and you're pedaling the bike to top a lot of the time, I'd get a maxxterra as your default tire and a maxxgrip to sub in from time to time. I'm in the southeastern US and that's how I do it. I'll throw the maxxgrip on for things like a trip to Pisgah when the trails are damp or a bike park trip that involves air travel (if I'm going to all that expense and trouble, I say f' it and burn a rear tire on the trip to have the most traction possible).
It also depends on your fitness. Someone with a lot of fitness/youth can get that maxxgrip rear to the top a lot easier. If you know you're going to be on the struggle bus on long climbs, might choose the maxxterra and deal with it on the downs. To me, there is a BIG difference in the way they roll on the rear.
I'm going back and forth on whether the maxxgrip should be a DHRII or HR3 . . .
I think general soil makeup or base rock should also play a factor. Anything granite like will have heaps more grip, especially in the wet, compared to limestone for example. Dry limestone is about as grippy as wet granite.
That's interesting on the super soft MM - have you tried running it at lower pressure?
I know when I switched from a conti Kryptotal upfront to an MM, I ended up settling on 20psi for trail and park riding (Sunrise Az, not a lot of berms).
I think that's a pretty popular take. I wonder if there's two schools of thought though. I tend to put a faster rolling tire on the rear with the softest tread and just ride that everywhere. Anyone else?
Yes, I should clarify that I’m running a MaxxGrip Assegai up front to pair with that fast rolling/longer wearing MaxxTerra DHR2. Front tires last 3 to 4 times longer for me than rear tires, and rolling resistance is so much more noticeable in a rear tire that I’m literally sitting on top of, so there’s no reason for me to not run the grippiest version upfront.
I did try going softer. First run it grazed the side of a rock, I’m assuming it grabbed on and the rear tire exploded, had to walk back up to take the lift down and buy a tire. Sounded like a gun going off. Back then I was a 30psi front and rear guy so this was maybe 27 or 28 in the rear?
Maxxgrip up front all the way. Not even a decision.
I'm genuinely curious about the fast-rolling-tread, softest-rubber tire. I'm assuming at least DD-level casing for the rear and Maxxis?
Feels like a trivia question. Dissector? I've always heard those last about 3 runs in Maxxgrip on the rear.
To reiterate, really not meaning to call you out. Sincerely interested in what you're running. Personally, I'd love to see an updated Aggressor in DD and merely maxxterra. I tried a Contin Xynotal, but I've concluded I really like a bit of channel, even in the rear, so I can really lean the bike and aggressively get on side knobs. Xynotal just didn't bite for me on anything but hardpack.
Didn't mean to make it a trivia question, but I felt like I've been drumming on about tacky chans in this thread enough as is - didn't want to be that guy.
But yeah, tacky chan supersoft in the gravity casing has been my go-to rear for a while now. I liked the Xynotal but I wanted more pronounced cornering knobs. Had the chance to ride a dhf in the rear on a rental bike a few months ago and I enjoyed it but the braking wasn't very good. I really wanted to like the dissector but it didn't roll as fast as I expected, the cornering knobs where way too soft for me, and the tire didn't last long for me either.
My second favorite rear at the moment is actually a Kryptotal FR on the rear - especially when the center knobs wear down.
Y'all!
(Sorry for the big pile of words. I like to make sure people have all the info they need. TL;DR at the bottom)
I don't know enough about tires. I've only ridden Dissectors (Maxxterra Exo+) front/rear and DHF/Aggressor (Maxxterra/DC Exo). All of those tires are shot at this point so I need to replace them. I'd love to see what you all have to say about options in my scenario:
Most of my riding is at my local trails which are XC-style narrow singletrack trails. The surfaces are mostly hardpack and kitty litter/moondust-over-hardpack. Almost all of my riding is on a 120mm/140mm trailbike. I like to try to ride those trails as fast as my fitness will push and I always look for the most enduro-y sorts of lines anywhere I can. Sometimes that's a literal rocky wildlife path down a hill, sometimes that's the sketchy stuff scratched into the landscape, sometimes it's something XC that gets a little wild as folks hit it faster. Sometimes it's urban riding with stair gaps.
I'm taking my 120mm/140mm trailbike to Spirit Mountain in Duluth, MN (a bike park, it seems) for some trails/skills park riding and some coaching. I don't anticipate any sort of real intense stuff. I'll be on vacation with the wife and taking a single day for the park so I don't intend to throw myself off a mountain or get too wild. I've never ridden anything like a bike park before so I don't know what to expect and I don't anticipate I'll get to do anything like that again until next year so I'd like to not throw the day away in the first hour with a damaged tire.
I'd love to get something that's going to be useful and not overkill for my local trails but I think my current Exo DHF/Aggressor is a little too light-duty for the day of whatever might happen at Spirit Mountain. I've been thinking maybe an Exo+ DHR II/Forekaster would be a good choice. I have no loyalty to Maxxis, though, so I thought maybe Kryptotal/Magnotal or Krypo/Xyno in Enduro casing? I don't know anything about Schwalbe. Hans Dampf? Nobby Nic? Super Trail casing?
Any thoughts you folks could lend would be great! I'd love to keep my tires fast but with a bit of bite still (the DHF feels like more than I need but not much more) since XC with hardpack and loose over hardpack is literally 99% of my riding.
Feel free to tell me any/all of my thoughts are wrong and I should go with [this] and [this]. I don't know much of anything about tires so I'm 100% open to any suggestions.
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TL;DR: my DHF/Aggressor in Exo is wore out. I'd like to be fast-rolling for the loose-over-hardpack and hardpack local XC-style trails that get 99% of my riding but I'm going to a bike park and trying to ride other places more often so I think going a little more capable in the sidewall department is a good idea. I'm open to most brands but find myself most interested in Maxxis, Continental, and Schwalbe. Any suggestions?
Dissector EXO front with a Rekon EXO+ rear if you want to be on the faster trail side of things but with a bit extra durability in the rear.
DHF EXO front with a DHR2 EXO rear for a solid trail setup that is fine for first timer bike park usage.
Assegai EXO+ front with a DHR2 DoubleDown rear for that heavy hitting setup that you can still pedal around.
I prefer MaxxGrip front with MaxxTerra rear for pedaling but bike park capable.
I tend to run a faster rolling rear (and more often than not lighter) as well. Doesn't need to be the grippiest fast rolling compound either as my local is loose sand/gravel over hardpack with granite boulders/rocks.
I learned to like the Tioga Edge 22 a lot. What a fun front tire, fast rolling, grippy in corners and not too heavy.
I did a MaxxGrip Dissector in the rear over a winter here in coastal BC and thought it worked well. The softer rubber had grip on rocks and roots, but the faster tread pattern made it less painful to pedal. Wear wasn’t terrible - it got me to the spring. I could see making short work of the tire in dry summer conditions, though. Also, our dirt isn’t really the kind that sticks and clogs tires, so it might not work so well in other wet places.
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