Anyone use the hayes dominion hoses on hope tech v4? Found some for practically free and they are super stiff and beefy. ID is 2.5mm vs...
Anyone use the hayes dominion hoses on hope tech v4? Found some for practically free and they are super stiff and beefy. ID is 2.5mm vs 2.1mm for the standard hoses. The standard hope barb seems to be too small but would it work with an olive compressing? Any idea on how this would change the character of the brakes?
considering the very lowe price of the braided hoses, why not going that direction?
Anyone use the hayes dominion hoses on hope tech v4? Found some for practically free and they are super stiff and beefy. ID is 2.5mm vs...
Anyone use the hayes dominion hoses on hope tech v4? Found some for practically free and they are super stiff and beefy. ID is 2.5mm vs 2.1mm for the standard hoses. The standard hope barb seems to be too small but would it work with an olive compressing? Any idea on how this would change the character of the brakes?
considering the very lowe price of the braided hoses, why not going that direction?
How do we actually if the braided hose makes the brakes any better? I’ve always thought that it only protects the outer shell which is not so critical in cycling. I assume all hydraulic brake hose have hard plastic innertube that withstands the pressure and does the magic.
How do we actually if the braided hose makes the brakes any better? I’ve always thought that it only protects the outer shell which is not...
How do we actually if the braided hose makes the brakes any better? I’ve always thought that it only protects the outer shell which is not so critical in cycling. I assume all hydraulic brake hose have hard plastic innertube that withstands the pressure and does the magic.
Not sure 100%, Trickstuff claims their Beta Kevlar hoses to be rated for 860bar or similar while the Goodridge Braided to be rated for 1360bar ( might be 1340 and 840 can’t remember the exact number but the difference is still huge )
Therefore a stiffer line should provide a sharper bite point and more consistent feel given there’s no room for expansion.
The plastic hose inside will expand its what’s around that might prevent it.
This is probably the reason why Pros use Shimano hoses on TRP as they find the TRP not stiff enough
@AndehM & @FaahkEet had inquired about aftermarket levers on sram brakes in the tech rumors thread. I am moving the response to that over here. I have freedom coast levers on my TRP DHR Evo's and I have them on a set of maven bronze. I also have a set of Oak Components levers that I previously had on a set of Code RSC and now on a set of Maven Ultimate.
I quite like the levers on the DHR Evos... I would consider aftermarket levers on those brakes a must. That being said, it took me a bit to adjust to running my finger just inside the lever hook. From years of riding stock sram levers, I had learned to put my finger directly on the hook, which can be a slight bit less comfortable with the freedom coast machining on the hook for some reason.
I say this because that is my impression on the difference between running the freedom coast and the oak components levers on maven brakes as well. Both are good from an ergonomics perspective... but the oak components have a slightly more comfortable hook then the freedom coast do, so it makes it a bit easier to run the lever position on the bars, such that your finger is resting within the hook when in use.
One thing that I have found as consistent with the aftermarket levers... is that the reach adjust is not as sufficient with the different lever shape. For whatever reason, I cannot setup the reach adjust so that the lever bottoms out on the grip when you wind them all the way counter clockwise (lever's in). This is mostly fine if you have reach adjust, but not fine if you are on base/bronze level brakes, or are the kind of person that does not want to use reach adjust because of the swing link cam profile.
That being said, when setup properly, the maven bronze that I have them on (on my 25' santacruz bullit) ends up with the last little bit of lever throw about 1/8" from the bar at full lock. It feels a bit like I would like them to go just a bit further, that way I could adjust them out to exactly where I want them. Overall, I'd equate it to having to run rebound or compression all the way to one side of the adjuster, sure it feels good and that's the best setting that is available, but you're always wondering what if I could go a bit futher. I'd likely end up back at the same place, but I still wonder.
Overall however, I do like the aftermarket lever feel. I'd say that they are not as impactful to the feel/performance or perception of the brakes as it was on the codes, but it is a nice improvement and for sure the lever feels more solid, like there is less flex.
Figure a lot of people here will find this interesting:
Basically he reduces the master cylinder diameter from 10 to 8mm which significantly increases hydraulic advantage. Also the brake comparison website he shows is such a good resource: https://brakes.ddzyne.nl Not sure how no one's found it yet.
I'm actually doing something kind of similar with a set of brakes currently. Picked up a set of sram db8 calipers for cheap and am running them with formula cura levers (coming from cura 2 calipers). This results in quite a bit less power because of the reduced hydraulic ratio (4.36 vs 5.22) but you do gain access to like an order of magnitude more aftermarket pad options and get more piston rollback (pad-rotor clearance). Not wanting to mess with modifying internal components so I'm currently getting a new set of lever blades machined that increases mechanical advantage from 7.1 to 8.5. This will boost the total advantage to slightly higher than DHR Evos, Cura 4s, or Tech 3 V4s. Here's my lever design for those interested:
In addition to increasing leverage it also reduces the tolerance between the lever blade and master cylinder body which significantly reduces the bushing play present in stock cura levers. I've got a previous version I'm currently running that reduces bushing play but has about the same leverage as the formula "feel control" levers in the highest leverage setting but allow the lever to be run much closer to the bar. I found the range of reach adjust on the formula levers to be too far out. Those are 3d printed out of titanium and look like this:
Figure a lot of people here will find this interesting:Basically he reduces the master cylinder diameter from 10 to 8mm which significantly increases hydraulic advantage. Also...
Figure a lot of people here will find this interesting:
Basically he reduces the master cylinder diameter from 10 to 8mm which significantly increases hydraulic advantage. Also the brake comparison website he shows is such a good resource: https://brakes.ddzyne.nl Not sure how no one's found it yet.
I'm actually doing something kind of similar with a set of brakes currently. Picked up a set of sram db8 calipers for cheap and am running them with formula cura levers (coming from cura 2 calipers). This results in quite a bit less power because of the reduced hydraulic ratio (4.36 vs 5.22) but you do gain access to like an order of magnitude more aftermarket pad options and get more piston rollback (pad-rotor clearance). Not wanting to mess with modifying internal components so I'm currently getting a new set of lever blades machined that increases mechanical advantage from 7.1 to 8.5. This will boost the total advantage to slightly higher than DHR Evos, Cura 4s, or Tech 3 V4s. Here's my lever design for those interested:
In addition to increasing leverage it also reduces the tolerance between the lever blade and master cylinder body which significantly reduces the bushing play present in stock cura levers. I've got a previous version I'm currently running that reduces bushing play but has about the same leverage as the formula "feel control" levers in the highest leverage setting but allow the lever to be run much closer to the bar. I found the range of reach adjust on the formula levers to be too far out. Those are 3d printed out of titanium and look like this:
Figure a lot of people here will find this interesting:Basically he reduces the master cylinder diameter from 10 to 8mm which significantly increases hydraulic advantage. Also...
Figure a lot of people here will find this interesting:
Basically he reduces the master cylinder diameter from 10 to 8mm which significantly increases hydraulic advantage. Also the brake comparison website he shows is such a good resource: https://brakes.ddzyne.nl Not sure how no one's found it yet.
I'm actually doing something kind of similar with a set of brakes currently. Picked up a set of sram db8 calipers for cheap and am running them with formula cura levers (coming from cura 2 calipers). This results in quite a bit less power because of the reduced hydraulic ratio (4.36 vs 5.22) but you do gain access to like an order of magnitude more aftermarket pad options and get more piston rollback (pad-rotor clearance). Not wanting to mess with modifying internal components so I'm currently getting a new set of lever blades machined that increases mechanical advantage from 7.1 to 8.5. This will boost the total advantage to slightly higher than DHR Evos, Cura 4s, or Tech 3 V4s. Here's my lever design for those interested:
In addition to increasing leverage it also reduces the tolerance between the lever blade and master cylinder body which significantly reduces the bushing play present in stock cura levers. I've got a previous version I'm currently running that reduces bushing play but has about the same leverage as the formula "feel control" levers in the highest leverage setting but allow the lever to be run much closer to the bar. I found the range of reach adjust on the formula levers to be too far out. Those are 3d printed out of titanium and look like this:
Figure a lot of people here will find this interesting:Basically he reduces the master cylinder diameter from 10 to 8mm which significantly increases hydraulic advantage. Also...
Figure a lot of people here will find this interesting:
Basically he reduces the master cylinder diameter from 10 to 8mm which significantly increases hydraulic advantage. Also the brake comparison website he shows is such a good resource: https://brakes.ddzyne.nl Not sure how no one's found it yet.
I'm actually doing something kind of similar with a set of brakes currently. Picked up a set of sram db8 calipers for cheap and am running them with formula cura levers (coming from cura 2 calipers). This results in quite a bit less power because of the reduced hydraulic ratio (4.36 vs 5.22) but you do gain access to like an order of magnitude more aftermarket pad options and get more piston rollback (pad-rotor clearance). Not wanting to mess with modifying internal components so I'm currently getting a new set of lever blades machined that increases mechanical advantage from 7.1 to 8.5. This will boost the total advantage to slightly higher than DHR Evos, Cura 4s, or Tech 3 V4s. Here's my lever design for those interested:
In addition to increasing leverage it also reduces the tolerance between the lever blade and master cylinder body which significantly reduces the bushing play present in stock cura levers. I've got a previous version I'm currently running that reduces bushing play but has about the same leverage as the formula "feel control" levers in the highest leverage setting but allow the lever to be run much closer to the bar. I found the range of reach adjust on the formula levers to be too far out. Those are 3d printed out of titanium and look like this:
I’ll be honest, that big of a change in master cylinder diameter doesn’t sound wonderful. Comparing the distance you’d have to move the master cylinder to move the pads the same amount, it’s a 56% increase. That’s a lot of lever throw… one conclusion I’ve come to is that massive power and good lever feel aren’t really attainable without decreased pad retract. Swing link kind of gets you there but there’s a stiff portion of lever throw it has to move through.
Figure a lot of people here will find this interesting:Basically he reduces the master cylinder diameter from 10 to 8mm which significantly increases hydraulic advantage. Also...
Figure a lot of people here will find this interesting:
Basically he reduces the master cylinder diameter from 10 to 8mm which significantly increases hydraulic advantage. Also the brake comparison website he shows is such a good resource: https://brakes.ddzyne.nl Not sure how no one's found it yet.
I'm actually doing something kind of similar with a set of brakes currently. Picked up a set of sram db8 calipers for cheap and am running them with formula cura levers (coming from cura 2 calipers). This results in quite a bit less power because of the reduced hydraulic ratio (4.36 vs 5.22) but you do gain access to like an order of magnitude more aftermarket pad options and get more piston rollback (pad-rotor clearance). Not wanting to mess with modifying internal components so I'm currently getting a new set of lever blades machined that increases mechanical advantage from 7.1 to 8.5. This will boost the total advantage to slightly higher than DHR Evos, Cura 4s, or Tech 3 V4s. Here's my lever design for those interested:
In addition to increasing leverage it also reduces the tolerance between the lever blade and master cylinder body which significantly reduces the bushing play present in stock cura levers. I've got a previous version I'm currently running that reduces bushing play but has about the same leverage as the formula "feel control" levers in the highest leverage setting but allow the lever to be run much closer to the bar. I found the range of reach adjust on the formula levers to be too far out. Those are 3d printed out of titanium and look like this:
I’ll be honest, that big of a change in master cylinder diameter doesn’t sound wonderful. Comparing the distance you’d have to move the master cylinder to...
I’ll be honest, that big of a change in master cylinder diameter doesn’t sound wonderful. Comparing the distance you’d have to move the master cylinder to move the pads the same amount, it’s a 56% increase. That’s a lot of lever throw… one conclusion I’ve come to is that massive power and good lever feel aren’t really attainable without decreased pad retract. Swing link kind of gets you there but there’s a stiff portion of lever throw it has to move through.
Yeah I agree that seems like pushing it past the point of practicality. You can see in the video he’s having to run the lever reach super super far out to compensate.
Figure a lot of people here will find this interesting:Basically he reduces the master cylinder diameter from 10 to 8mm which significantly increases hydraulic advantage. Also...
Figure a lot of people here will find this interesting:
Basically he reduces the master cylinder diameter from 10 to 8mm which significantly increases hydraulic advantage. Also the brake comparison website he shows is such a good resource: https://brakes.ddzyne.nl Not sure how no one's found it yet.
I'm actually doing something kind of similar with a set of brakes currently. Picked up a set of sram db8 calipers for cheap and am running them with formula cura levers (coming from cura 2 calipers). This results in quite a bit less power because of the reduced hydraulic ratio (4.36 vs 5.22) but you do gain access to like an order of magnitude more aftermarket pad options and get more piston rollback (pad-rotor clearance). Not wanting to mess with modifying internal components so I'm currently getting a new set of lever blades machined that increases mechanical advantage from 7.1 to 8.5. This will boost the total advantage to slightly higher than DHR Evos, Cura 4s, or Tech 3 V4s. Here's my lever design for those interested:
In addition to increasing leverage it also reduces the tolerance between the lever blade and master cylinder body which significantly reduces the bushing play present in stock cura levers. I've got a previous version I'm currently running that reduces bushing play but has about the same leverage as the formula "feel control" levers in the highest leverage setting but allow the lever to be run much closer to the bar. I found the range of reach adjust on the formula levers to be too far out. Those are 3d printed out of titanium and look like this:
Related to the video above, using a magura mt7 caliper might have helped due to a very small pad rollback compared to something like the trp's. might have also not to have needed to go so small on the master cylinder diameter as the mt7 calipers have 4x17mm pistons compared to the 4x16mm pistons on trp caliper. would be interesting to see the results of how the this would reduce the lever throw and maintain a similar level of hydraulic pressure within the system. (Not an engineer but just guessing)
Figure a lot of people here will find this interesting:Basically he reduces the master cylinder diameter from 10 to 8mm which significantly increases hydraulic advantage. Also...
Figure a lot of people here will find this interesting:
Basically he reduces the master cylinder diameter from 10 to 8mm which significantly increases hydraulic advantage. Also the brake comparison website he shows is such a good resource: https://brakes.ddzyne.nl Not sure how no one's found it yet.
I'm actually doing something kind of similar with a set of brakes currently. Picked up a set of sram db8 calipers for cheap and am running them with formula cura levers (coming from cura 2 calipers). This results in quite a bit less power because of the reduced hydraulic ratio (4.36 vs 5.22) but you do gain access to like an order of magnitude more aftermarket pad options and get more piston rollback (pad-rotor clearance). Not wanting to mess with modifying internal components so I'm currently getting a new set of lever blades machined that increases mechanical advantage from 7.1 to 8.5. This will boost the total advantage to slightly higher than DHR Evos, Cura 4s, or Tech 3 V4s. Here's my lever design for those interested:
In addition to increasing leverage it also reduces the tolerance between the lever blade and master cylinder body which significantly reduces the bushing play present in stock cura levers. I've got a previous version I'm currently running that reduces bushing play but has about the same leverage as the formula "feel control" levers in the highest leverage setting but allow the lever to be run much closer to the bar. I found the range of reach adjust on the formula levers to be too far out. Those are 3d printed out of titanium and look like this:
Nice job, there is already aftermarket lever option for cura on the market though, with longer/shorter options and running on bearings instead of bushings too 🙂https://www.ebay.com/itm/125531213076
Figure a lot of people here will find this interesting:Basically he reduces the master cylinder diameter from 10 to 8mm which significantly increases hydraulic advantage. Also...
Figure a lot of people here will find this interesting:
Basically he reduces the master cylinder diameter from 10 to 8mm which significantly increases hydraulic advantage. Also the brake comparison website he shows is such a good resource: https://brakes.ddzyne.nl Not sure how no one's found it yet.
I'm actually doing something kind of similar with a set of brakes currently. Picked up a set of sram db8 calipers for cheap and am running them with formula cura levers (coming from cura 2 calipers). This results in quite a bit less power because of the reduced hydraulic ratio (4.36 vs 5.22) but you do gain access to like an order of magnitude more aftermarket pad options and get more piston rollback (pad-rotor clearance). Not wanting to mess with modifying internal components so I'm currently getting a new set of lever blades machined that increases mechanical advantage from 7.1 to 8.5. This will boost the total advantage to slightly higher than DHR Evos, Cura 4s, or Tech 3 V4s. Here's my lever design for those interested:
In addition to increasing leverage it also reduces the tolerance between the lever blade and master cylinder body which significantly reduces the bushing play present in stock cura levers. I've got a previous version I'm currently running that reduces bushing play but has about the same leverage as the formula "feel control" levers in the highest leverage setting but allow the lever to be run much closer to the bar. I found the range of reach adjust on the formula levers to be too far out. Those are 3d printed out of titanium and look like this:
Nice job, there is already aftermarket lever option for cura on the market though, with longer/shorter options and running on bearings instead of bushings too 🙂https://www.ebay.com/itm/125531213076
I'm sure those are a great option and bearings definitely create a more durable pivot but isn't it more fun to make something yourself? The higher leverage levers I've designed are a bit longer than those as well since I'm starting with a slightly lower hydraulic ratio. Definitely not advocating that what I'm doing makes sense economically or time investment wise but at the end of the day tinkering on and modifying bikes is a fun and rewarding way to spend your time.
Quick question, I have a friend who had arthritis and his hands give up on longer descents. He's currently running Code RCSs with 200 rotors (and sintered pads). I'm just looking at options to make his life easier and (in increasing costs) the list is: pads (Sinter & co?), 220 mm rotors, Hayes Dominion A4, Mavens, 1k brakesets (Trickstuff, Intend, Radic & co.).
new shimano stuff coming, new hope levers not far off. TRP evo pro
I have issues with my right thumb that cant handle long descents - something i Tried to learn was proper braking and not dragging etc.. (and important not to death grip as this makes it wwaaay worse) Ended up with mavens to dish out immense power when needed but braking properly really changed not only my thumb issues but I gained decent speed overal.
Quick question, I have a friend who had arthritis and his hands give up on longer descents. He's currently running Code RCSs with 200 rotors (and...
Quick question, I have a friend who had arthritis and his hands give up on longer descents. He's currently running Code RCSs with 200 rotors (and sintered pads). I'm just looking at options to make his life easier and (in increasing costs) the list is: pads (Sinter & co?), 220 mm rotors, Hayes Dominion A4, Mavens, 1k brakesets (Trickstuff, Intend, Radic & co.).
Am I missing something?
if he's got hand issues, i think he doesn't need to spend extreme money on Trickstuff or similar, but i wouldn't waste money on "polishing the turd" aka pads and rotors on the codes, they're hard to pull and not that powerful.
Definitely i'd go with Either Hope V4 or Dominions, if the hand situation is really bad maybe the Kahas as they're super light but power ramps immediately giving fingers a very easy job
Talking to a friend who rides Dominions he mentioned the lever pull is light, but you need to squeeze hard to get power from them (and he can compare to Codes RSC on another bike).
A heavy lever pull in the freestroke is still much lighter than applying the power and if the Code has an advantage in the power delivery part of the stroke (due to the swing link) it might be better than a Dominion after all (as per @CascadeComponents comment on the previous page).
We'll possibly try a 220 rotor because we have one in the fleet and maybe try to align to have a test ride on the Dominions. I'll report back if/when we do something.
new shimano stuff coming, new hope levers not far off.TRP evo proI have issues with my right thumb that cant handle long descents - something i...
new shimano stuff coming, new hope levers not far off. TRP evo pro
I have issues with my right thumb that cant handle long descents - something i Tried to learn was proper braking and not dragging etc.. (and important not to death grip as this makes it wwaaay worse) Ended up with mavens to dish out immense power when needed but braking properly really changed not only my thumb issues but I gained decent speed overal.
Quick question, I have a friend who had arthritis and his hands give up on longer descents. He's currently running Code RCSs with 200 rotors (and...
Quick question, I have a friend who had arthritis and his hands give up on longer descents. He's currently running Code RCSs with 200 rotors (and sintered pads). I'm just looking at options to make his life easier and (in increasing costs) the list is: pads (Sinter & co?), 220 mm rotors, Hayes Dominion A4, Mavens, 1k brakesets (Trickstuff, Intend, Radic & co.).
Am I missing something?
I have chronic hand problems, there are some complexities in what you need to think about because issues are unique to everyone. What aggravates his issues? Force at the lever? Lever too far out? Lack of power? My issues are related to cubital tunnel syndrome causing nerve damage that creates hand pain, my issues are aggravated when the lever blades are out too far (so I run them close), brakes have power issues or fade (I'm 220lbs so this is a thing), but not so much when the lever force is high unless there is major clenching to get power.
I would flat out avoid Dominions. They aren't bad brakes but they are going to require a fair amount of lever force once the pads engage, the freestroke is light but the buildup in pressure required is fairly significant if you have problems. The power is also kindof middling compared to most options and heavier riders on longer descents having to manage hand problems will get worse due to fade. You'll find you really have to clench them to get lots of power when they heat up and the levers have to run somewhat far off the bar. They were great when they came out but IMO there are better options available today. For a normal rider without issues, this is less of a problem, but if you have issues like I do then it's a problem.
If their issues are aggravated by levers being far out (this changes the pressure points in your hand), then Maven, Hope, Intend, or Radic would be a good choices. The Radics have a very short throw with basically no deadstroke, lots of power, but a somewhat awkward lever shape. The Hopes have a very light pull with more length required, but not as much as something like the Maximas. The Mavens have an initial firmness to the lever but the additional force required to put power down is minimal compared to the others, it stays somewhat consistent, and the power available is really high and comes on very fast. If hand fatigue related to lever force is an issue then I'd rule those out in favor of Hope. The Intends will be somewhere between all of this, light throw, short-ish lever, some deadstroke but not a ton, no real fade issues, but hard to acquire - this is what I use, though, and found for me that these and the Hope T4 V4 were the best options.
If the levers being further out is OK then Maximas would be an option, but they require a longer lever throw than most of the options above to get the same power, but i tis a very light/smooth pull even compared to Hopes.
So, light throw: Hope (shorter), Maxima (longer); Firm throw but fairly linear power delivery: Maven; Short deadstroke, close to the bars: Radic. Flatly avoid: Magura, Shimano, Formula, Hayes
Something like the Fasst Flexx bars would be worth considering also, they make a huge difference in damping impacts to your hands through the bars. That said, after years of chasing this, I've just concluded I have to accept that it'll always be limiting to me and limit what I can do. These things mitigate and help but not eliminate, so it's important to listen to your body and not push things too far, when it starts feeling bad or weak - stop - people you ride with will just have to accept that and he'll have to come to terms with it, at least I have.
I'll read through it all later, just want to add that he is very good at listening to his body and analysing thing, but more importantly, handlebars are taken care of.
Edit: read it all and it's a wealth of information, thanks. One question, do you have experience with Code RSCs and where they stack up against all these options?
Quick question, I have a friend who had arthritis and his hands give up on longer descents. He's currently running Code RCSs with 200 rotors (and...
Quick question, I have a friend who had arthritis and his hands give up on longer descents. He's currently running Code RCSs with 200 rotors (and sintered pads). I'm just looking at options to make his life easier and (in increasing costs) the list is: pads (Sinter & co?), 220 mm rotors, Hayes Dominion A4, Mavens, 1k brakesets (Trickstuff, Intend, Radic & co.).
Am I missing something?
Hand arthritis is not accurate enough diagnosis to be able to help. Arthritis in where exactly? Fingers, MCP joints, wrist?
I'll read through it all later, just want to add that he is very good at listening to his body and analysing thing, but more importantly...
I'll read through it all later, just want to add that he is very good at listening to his body and analysing thing, but more importantly, handlebars are taken care of.
Edit: read it all and it's a wealth of information, thanks. One question, do you have experience with Code RSCs and where they stack up against all these options?
In terms of power they'd be on the lower side of the ones I listed, probably even below Dominions unless you really let the lever out. They require a longer lever stroke than most options there except maybe the Maximas, I can also fade them on longer descents. The deadstroke on them from what I recall is less than the Dominions but more than brakes like the Radic/Intend/Hopes. They are pretty linear and smooth, I don't recall a huge spike in lever force required when pads engage or later in the stroke but you don't get the same power as the others, either.
I'd say lever smoothness is on par with the others, it's really just power is less and ramp up is slow.
Basically any of the above would be an improvement in power. Keep in mind though it's been years since I ran them last, just what I can recall.
Just replacing the Code calipers, using RSC levers, to Dominion A4 calipers with pads, the "Codes" become much more powerful. Code RSCs are pretty bottom of the barrel compared to most other high tier offerings.
I have chronic hand problems, there are some complexities in what you need to think about because issues are unique to everyone. What aggravates his issues...
I have chronic hand problems, there are some complexities in what you need to think about because issues are unique to everyone. What aggravates his issues? Force at the lever? Lever too far out? Lack of power? My issues are related to cubital tunnel syndrome causing nerve damage that creates hand pain, my issues are aggravated when the lever blades are out too far (so I run them close), brakes have power issues or fade (I'm 220lbs so this is a thing), but not so much when the lever force is high unless there is major clenching to get power.
I would flat out avoid Dominions. They aren't bad brakes but they are going to require a fair amount of lever force once the pads engage, the freestroke is light but the buildup in pressure required is fairly significant if you have problems. The power is also kindof middling compared to most options and heavier riders on longer descents having to manage hand problems will get worse due to fade. You'll find you really have to clench them to get lots of power when they heat up and the levers have to run somewhat far off the bar. They were great when they came out but IMO there are better options available today. For a normal rider without issues, this is less of a problem, but if you have issues like I do then it's a problem.
If their issues are aggravated by levers being far out (this changes the pressure points in your hand), then Maven, Hope, Intend, or Radic would be a good choices. The Radics have a very short throw with basically no deadstroke, lots of power, but a somewhat awkward lever shape. The Hopes have a very light pull with more length required, but not as much as something like the Maximas. The Mavens have an initial firmness to the lever but the additional force required to put power down is minimal compared to the others, it stays somewhat consistent, and the power available is really high and comes on very fast. If hand fatigue related to lever force is an issue then I'd rule those out in favor of Hope. The Intends will be somewhere between all of this, light throw, short-ish lever, some deadstroke but not a ton, no real fade issues, but hard to acquire - this is what I use, though, and found for me that these and the Hope T4 V4 were the best options.
If the levers being further out is OK then Maximas would be an option, but they require a longer lever throw than most of the options above to get the same power, but i tis a very light/smooth pull even compared to Hopes.
So, light throw: Hope (shorter), Maxima (longer); Firm throw but fairly linear power delivery: Maven; Short deadstroke, close to the bars: Radic. Flatly avoid: Magura, Shimano, Formula, Hayes
Something like the Fasst Flexx bars would be worth considering also, they make a huge difference in damping impacts to your hands through the bars. That said, after years of chasing this, I've just concluded I have to accept that it'll always be limiting to me and limit what I can do. These things mitigate and help but not eliminate, so it's important to listen to your body and not push things too far, when it starts feeling bad or weak - stop - people you ride with will just have to accept that and he'll have to come to terms with it, at least I have.
There is a lot of good information in what Shinook just wrote here. I'll chime in by saying that if continuous, significant lever force on long steep descents is what is causing the discomfort, go with the Mavens with a pair of big rotors. They are pretty much unmatched in terms of sheer power-to-lever force ratio IMO. Keep in mind that I am talking about the kind of steep where you need significant braking force for extended periods of time, in other words, once you are past the initial bite point and well into the powerful portion of the lever stroke. Think bike park days in real mountains. The Hope Tech 4 is ALMOST as powerful, so it's a great choice too, and the one to go for if you need/like very light lever action. It is the easiest brake to engage and the one that develops the most power early on after the bite point engages. Great if you like to feather/drag your brakes a lot. It also has gobs of power available for those steeper/longer descents, but it doesn't keep ramping quite as sharply as the Maven does deeper into the stroke - meaning you might feel as though you run out of finger power or have to pull the Hope deeper into the stroke to get the same power at the rotor.
Quick question, I have a friend who had arthritis and his hands give up on longer descents. He's currently running Code RCSs with 200 rotors (and...
Quick question, I have a friend who had arthritis and his hands give up on longer descents. He's currently running Code RCSs with 200 rotors (and sintered pads). I'm just looking at options to make his life easier and (in increasing costs) the list is: pads (Sinter & co?), 220 mm rotors, Hayes Dominion A4, Mavens, 1k brakesets (Trickstuff, Intend, Radic & co.).
Am I missing something?
223 rotors + Trickstuff Maxima/ Hope4 V4 + 50mm rise oneup bars. Spend a lot of time with cockpit setup.
what have yall found is the easiest way to track down just calipers if you want to mix and match? or.... just buying completes and doing...
what have yall found is the easiest way to track down just calipers if you want to mix and match? or.... just buying completes and doing it that way?
Depends on the brand I assume. Either just calipers direct from the manufacturer if they sell D2C, or from an online retailer. Other than the very boutique i think should be no problem finding calipers sold on their own.
223 rotors + Trickstuff Maxima/ Hope4 V4 + 50mm rise oneup bars. Spend a lot of time with cockpit setup.
add 12° backsweep bars = less hand issues on long descents. at least for me. pretty non existent anymore since i'm on intends on sq lab 30x 12° high risers
considering the very lowe price of the braided hoses, why not going that direction?
I have the hayes hoses in hand, not the braided
How do we actually if the braided hose makes the brakes any better? I’ve always thought that it only protects the outer shell which is not so critical in cycling. I assume all hydraulic brake hose have hard plastic innertube that withstands the pressure and does the magic.
Not sure 100%, Trickstuff claims their Beta Kevlar hoses to be rated for 860bar or similar while the Goodridge Braided to be rated for 1360bar ( might be 1340 and 840 can’t remember the exact number but the difference is still huge )
Therefore a stiffer line should provide a sharper bite point and more consistent feel given there’s no room for expansion.
The plastic hose inside will expand its what’s around that might prevent it.
This is probably the reason why Pros use Shimano hoses on TRP as they find the TRP not stiff enough
@AndehM & @FaahkEet had inquired about aftermarket levers on sram brakes in the tech rumors thread. I am moving the response to that over here. I have freedom coast levers on my TRP DHR Evo's and I have them on a set of maven bronze. I also have a set of Oak Components levers that I previously had on a set of Code RSC and now on a set of Maven Ultimate.
I quite like the levers on the DHR Evos... I would consider aftermarket levers on those brakes a must. That being said, it took me a bit to adjust to running my finger just inside the lever hook. From years of riding stock sram levers, I had learned to put my finger directly on the hook, which can be a slight bit less comfortable with the freedom coast machining on the hook for some reason.
I say this because that is my impression on the difference between running the freedom coast and the oak components levers on maven brakes as well. Both are good from an ergonomics perspective... but the oak components have a slightly more comfortable hook then the freedom coast do, so it makes it a bit easier to run the lever position on the bars, such that your finger is resting within the hook when in use.
One thing that I have found as consistent with the aftermarket levers... is that the reach adjust is not as sufficient with the different lever shape. For whatever reason, I cannot setup the reach adjust so that the lever bottoms out on the grip when you wind them all the way counter clockwise (lever's in). This is mostly fine if you have reach adjust, but not fine if you are on base/bronze level brakes, or are the kind of person that does not want to use reach adjust because of the swing link cam profile.
That being said, when setup properly, the maven bronze that I have them on (on my 25' santacruz bullit) ends up with the last little bit of lever throw about 1/8" from the bar at full lock. It feels a bit like I would like them to go just a bit further, that way I could adjust them out to exactly where I want them. Overall, I'd equate it to having to run rebound or compression all the way to one side of the adjuster, sure it feels good and that's the best setting that is available, but you're always wondering what if I could go a bit futher. I'd likely end up back at the same place, but I still wonder.
Overall however, I do like the aftermarket lever feel. I'd say that they are not as impactful to the feel/performance or perception of the brakes as it was on the codes, but it is a nice improvement and for sure the lever feels more solid, like there is less flex.
Have the oak levers on maven silvers. Can confirm, lever feels less flexy which translates to a bit more power. Not super noticeable, but it’s there.
Mounting them was a bit of a hassle but definitely an upgrade from stock levers imo
Figure a lot of people here will find this interesting:
Basically he reduces the master cylinder diameter from 10 to 8mm which significantly increases hydraulic advantage. Also the brake comparison website he shows is such a good resource: https://brakes.ddzyne.nl Not sure how no one's found it yet.
I'm actually doing something kind of similar with a set of brakes currently. Picked up a set of sram db8 calipers for cheap and am running them with formula cura levers (coming from cura 2 calipers). This results in quite a bit less power because of the reduced hydraulic ratio (4.36 vs 5.22) but you do gain access to like an order of magnitude more aftermarket pad options and get more piston rollback (pad-rotor clearance). Not wanting to mess with modifying internal components so I'm currently getting a new set of lever blades machined that increases mechanical advantage from 7.1 to 8.5. This will boost the total advantage to slightly higher than DHR Evos, Cura 4s, or Tech 3 V4s. Here's my lever design for those interested:
In addition to increasing leverage it also reduces the tolerance between the lever blade and master cylinder body which significantly reduces the bushing play present in stock cura levers. I've got a previous version I'm currently running that reduces bushing play but has about the same leverage as the formula "feel control" levers in the highest leverage setting but allow the lever to be run much closer to the bar. I found the range of reach adjust on the formula levers to be too far out. Those are 3d printed out of titanium and look like this:
That comparison site is great!
Wish it was updated, it’s got old stuff and missing the newest, would be sick if it had all the new ones
I’ll be honest, that big of a change in master cylinder diameter doesn’t sound wonderful. Comparing the distance you’d have to move the master cylinder to move the pads the same amount, it’s a 56% increase. That’s a lot of lever throw… one conclusion I’ve come to is that massive power and good lever feel aren’t really attainable without decreased pad retract. Swing link kind of gets you there but there’s a stiff portion of lever throw it has to move through.
Yeah I agree that seems like pushing it past the point of practicality. You can see in the video he’s having to run the lever reach super super far out to compensate.
Related to the video above, using a magura mt7 caliper might have helped due to a very small pad rollback compared to something like the trp's. might have also not to have needed to go so small on the master cylinder diameter as the mt7 calipers have 4x17mm pistons compared to the 4x16mm pistons on trp caliper. would be interesting to see the results of how the this would reduce the lever throw and maintain a similar level of hydraulic pressure within the system. (Not an engineer but just guessing)
Nice job, there is already aftermarket lever option for cura on the market though, with longer/shorter options and running on bearings instead of bushings too 🙂https://www.ebay.com/itm/125531213076
I'm sure those are a great option and bearings definitely create a more durable pivot but isn't it more fun to make something yourself? The higher leverage levers I've designed are a bit longer than those as well since I'm starting with a slightly lower hydraulic ratio. Definitely not advocating that what I'm doing makes sense economically or time investment wise but at the end of the day tinkering on and modifying bikes is a fun and rewarding way to spend your time.
Quick question, I have a friend who had arthritis and his hands give up on longer descents. He's currently running Code RCSs with 200 rotors (and sintered pads). I'm just looking at options to make his life easier and (in increasing costs) the list is: pads (Sinter & co?), 220 mm rotors, Hayes Dominion A4, Mavens, 1k brakesets (Trickstuff, Intend, Radic & co.).
Am I missing something?
new shimano stuff coming, new hope levers not far off.
TRP evo pro
I have issues with my right thumb that cant handle long descents - something i Tried to learn was proper braking and not dragging etc.. (and important not to death grip as this makes it wwaaay worse)
Ended up with mavens to dish out immense power when needed but braking properly really changed not only my thumb issues but I gained decent speed overal.
if he's got hand issues, i think he doesn't need to spend extreme money on Trickstuff or similar, but i wouldn't waste money on "polishing the turd" aka pads and rotors on the codes, they're hard to pull and not that powerful.
Definitely i'd go with Either Hope V4 or Dominions, if the hand situation is really bad maybe the Kahas as they're super light but power ramps immediately giving fingers a very easy job
Talking to a friend who rides Dominions he mentioned the lever pull is light, but you need to squeeze hard to get power from them (and he can compare to Codes RSC on another bike).
A heavy lever pull in the freestroke is still much lighter than applying the power and if the Code has an advantage in the power delivery part of the stroke (due to the swing link) it might be better than a Dominion after all (as per @CascadeComponents comment on the previous page).
We'll possibly try a 220 rotor because we have one in the fleet and maybe try to align to have a test ride on the Dominions. I'll report back if/when we do something.
New hope levers?
I have chronic hand problems, there are some complexities in what you need to think about because issues are unique to everyone. What aggravates his issues? Force at the lever? Lever too far out? Lack of power? My issues are related to cubital tunnel syndrome causing nerve damage that creates hand pain, my issues are aggravated when the lever blades are out too far (so I run them close), brakes have power issues or fade (I'm 220lbs so this is a thing), but not so much when the lever force is high unless there is major clenching to get power.
I would flat out avoid Dominions. They aren't bad brakes but they are going to require a fair amount of lever force once the pads engage, the freestroke is light but the buildup in pressure required is fairly significant if you have problems. The power is also kindof middling compared to most options and heavier riders on longer descents having to manage hand problems will get worse due to fade. You'll find you really have to clench them to get lots of power when they heat up and the levers have to run somewhat far off the bar. They were great when they came out but IMO there are better options available today. For a normal rider without issues, this is less of a problem, but if you have issues like I do then it's a problem.
If their issues are aggravated by levers being far out (this changes the pressure points in your hand), then Maven, Hope, Intend, or Radic would be a good choices. The Radics have a very short throw with basically no deadstroke, lots of power, but a somewhat awkward lever shape. The Hopes have a very light pull with more length required, but not as much as something like the Maximas. The Mavens have an initial firmness to the lever but the additional force required to put power down is minimal compared to the others, it stays somewhat consistent, and the power available is really high and comes on very fast. If hand fatigue related to lever force is an issue then I'd rule those out in favor of Hope. The Intends will be somewhere between all of this, light throw, short-ish lever, some deadstroke but not a ton, no real fade issues, but hard to acquire - this is what I use, though, and found for me that these and the Hope T4 V4 were the best options.
If the levers being further out is OK then Maximas would be an option, but they require a longer lever throw than most of the options above to get the same power, but i tis a very light/smooth pull even compared to Hopes.
So, light throw: Hope (shorter), Maxima (longer); Firm throw but fairly linear power delivery: Maven; Short deadstroke, close to the bars: Radic. Flatly avoid: Magura, Shimano, Formula, Hayes
Something like the Fasst Flexx bars would be worth considering also, they make a huge difference in damping impacts to your hands through the bars. That said, after years of chasing this, I've just concluded I have to accept that it'll always be limiting to me and limit what I can do. These things mitigate and help but not eliminate, so it's important to listen to your body and not push things too far, when it starts feeling bad or weak - stop - people you ride with will just have to accept that and he'll have to come to terms with it, at least I have.
I'll read through it all later, just want to add that he is very good at listening to his body and analysing thing, but more importantly, handlebars are taken care of.
Edit: read it all and it's a wealth of information, thanks. One question, do you have experience with Code RSCs and where they stack up against all these options?
Hand arthritis is not accurate enough diagnosis to be able to help. Arthritis in where exactly? Fingers, MCP joints, wrist?
In terms of power they'd be on the lower side of the ones I listed, probably even below Dominions unless you really let the lever out. They require a longer lever stroke than most options there except maybe the Maximas, I can also fade them on longer descents. The deadstroke on them from what I recall is less than the Dominions but more than brakes like the Radic/Intend/Hopes. They are pretty linear and smooth, I don't recall a huge spike in lever force required when pads engage or later in the stroke but you don't get the same power as the others, either.
I'd say lever smoothness is on par with the others, it's really just power is less and ramp up is slow.
Basically any of the above would be an improvement in power. Keep in mind though it's been years since I ran them last, just what I can recall.
Just replacing the Code calipers, using RSC levers, to Dominion A4 calipers with pads, the "Codes" become much more powerful. Code RSCs are pretty bottom of the barrel compared to most other high tier offerings.
There is a lot of good information in what Shinook just wrote here. I'll chime in by saying that if continuous, significant lever force on long steep descents is what is causing the discomfort, go with the Mavens with a pair of big rotors. They are pretty much unmatched in terms of sheer power-to-lever force ratio IMO. Keep in mind that I am talking about the kind of steep where you need significant braking force for extended periods of time, in other words, once you are past the initial bite point and well into the powerful portion of the lever stroke. Think bike park days in real mountains. The Hope Tech 4 is ALMOST as powerful, so it's a great choice too, and the one to go for if you need/like very light lever action. It is the easiest brake to engage and the one that develops the most power early on after the bite point engages. Great if you like to feather/drag your brakes a lot. It also has gobs of power available for those steeper/longer descents, but it doesn't keep ramping quite as sharply as the Maven does deeper into the stroke - meaning you might feel as though you run out of finger power or have to pull the Hope deeper into the stroke to get the same power at the rotor.
223 rotors + Trickstuff Maxima/ Hope4 V4 + 50mm rise oneup bars. Spend a lot of time with cockpit setup.
what have yall found is the easiest way to track down just calipers if you want to mix and match? or.... just buying completes and doing it that way?
Depends on the brand I assume. Either just calipers direct from the manufacturer if they sell D2C, or from an online retailer. Other than the very boutique i think should be no problem finding calipers sold on their own.
yep, what i'd assume tech 5 lever, has a bleed screw near the clamp
add 12° backsweep bars = less hand issues on long descents. at least for me. pretty non existent anymore since i'm on intends on sq lab 30x 12° high risers
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