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Remember when pros were putting those "anti vibration" stickers all over their bikes because they contained magical crystals or electronic circuits or something?
From one of the manufacturers:
"If materials with different electron leakage work are brought into contact, a contact potential difference is formed. This represents a voltage that causes the electrons with a lower electron work function to pass into the material that has a higher electron work function. The natural frequency of a material is therefore dependent on the elasticity modulus as well as the density and length of the material. A Wizard Sticker does not change the density or weight of the material, but the electricity modulus."
$350 for 12, please.
the disc rotors on Finn's specialized are mounted the wrong way...what am I not getting here?
Only based on how others do it. If that’s the way they’ve been designed then there’s a good chance its ok
As was stated, RM uses a system like this and their motor and suspension are known to work very well.
The downside is that it's a proprietary motor system, from a manufacturer with some financial difficulties.
Well there is a technical reason why everyone else does it the other way round and also past failures to support that. It could be that the rotors are thick enough now that they won't fail by buckling if loaded in this direction but I think they would be stronger the other way round.
I understand you worry, but I also know that Brembo make brakes for everybody in every field.
If it is them that is behind these brakes (which is a fair assumption) then it’s fair to assume they know what they’re doing
Another one from the mad Italians
I agree it's worth giving them the benefit of the doubt at this stage, if the rotors are thick it's probably fine.
I can definitely think of plenty of examples where companies from other industries have tried to bring their wisdom to bikes and failed miserably. Bikes can sometimes need a unique solution, that isn't the norm elsewhere.
I've been using 2.3mm rotors for a while now and they are amazingly resistant to bending, which is good news as none of my truing tools will fit them. So, as you say they're probably thick enough to be fine.
Get your flame fingers ready for use, folx. An UnPopular Opinion is ahead:
I joked with friends/coworkers that if you ever have a bad day at work just remember that somewhere there's a team of mech designers that had to design and render the cycbertruck. I think one of those designers went over to whomever is making those likely Brembo brakes and used all of their design chops they picked up rendering that poorly laid plan of a vehicle on that MC. Woof!
I wasn’t aware of their motor, I just took a look at it and it’s not exactly what I was trying to describe. It still uses a traditional chainring and a chain going from the chainring to the cassette. What I’m asking about is basically the Specialized DH bike but with a motor. No chainring on the cranks with a chain connecting to the cassette. The cranks would somehow interface with the motor internally and a chain would connect the cassette to a sprocket which comes off the motor. No direct connection between the BB/cranks and the rear hub/cassette.
Why? What problem are you trying to solve?
The beauty of the Rocky System is that you have both your pedaling power and the e-motor power acting on the same chain. It's quite a simple way of getting power to the rear wheel. What you're describing you have a motor acting directly on a chain, and then somehow you have to get your pedal power through to that same chain. Some kind of shaft inside? Something else? What benefit are you achieving by separating these two things? Whatever your solution, it sounds less efficient than what Rocky is doing.
I would be interested to hear from the Rocky motor designers if there would be some benefit to a fully split 2 chain system such as the Pivot 2 chains...which is what I assumed you were talking about...(and what people assume is going on with Speciazlied) but I don't really understand how/why you would try to make it work without a 2nd chain!
So instead of the motor driving an idler that's connected to the cassette, the cranks spin a different shaft, with a different cog on it (sorta like an idler) and that cog is connected to the cassette. I got what you were stating before, but it is basically the same. The one large challenge with the setup you are talking about is the packaging of the motor output shaft, and the sprag clutch. Ebike motors use a series of reduction gears to step down the rpm that the motor is happy (and efficient) operating at and mating that with an rpm that your legs and the gearing/rear wheel is happy operating at. The challenge is that the motor needs to be coupled to your crank rpm and then instantaneously not coupled. The sprag cluch is what allows that and it's a bit of a pita to package along with the reduction gears that are a pita to package.
The TQ drive unit is a pretty neat design, works with a ring gear that is concentric to the crank spindle and the motor drives at a slightly lower rpm then others to begin with. I digress, that's the only drive unit out there (that I am aware of) that could be packaged in the way that you are theorizing. The challenge is just fitting this all in, without needlessly raising the bb, and also offsetting the motor to the side to make room for the sprag and the idler cogs.
The main thing you'd be accomplishing with this (and what I assume you are after) is to eliminate the in-efficiency of the idler design and the chain wrap. In this case, we're chasing 3% ish, which is likely not worth it when you're factoring a drive unit that is masking the additional drag.
I don't want to get to nerdy but it would be so interesting to see a race bike cut exactly down the middle to show how much each side weighs! Riders and mechanics talk about balance and so on but surely having all the gearing, mass dampers, the heavier side of the fork all on the right makes a difference ?
Some close up screenshots from the Vital pits bits video of the brakes.
Caliper appears to be forged which could mean the die is ready? CNC/3d printing might have been easier if this was a prototype. Possibly mass produced in the near future. Banjo and hose looks like from SRAM Code. The split clamp is also very similar to SRAM's matchmaker right down to the T25 bolt. There are lever reach and bite point adjustments. Carbon lever suggests molds are ready to go.
It’s purely a thought experiment. It seems like the trend of the last couple years for frame designers is reducing pedal kickback and/or the interaction between pedal forces and suspension movement. The prevalence of high pivots is a result of this. Taken a step further, Pivot and Specialized have done tons of work on their frame designs with 2 chain. I’m just curious if the 2 chain design could be taken even a step further if combined with an e-bike motor.
The 2nd chain allows you to use larger size sprockets and get better efficiency.
Traditional idler it's a packaging problem to get a large size idler in without going super high on the pivot location.
By using the 2 chains you can run ratios that would allow a mid pivot and avoid a 11/12t sprocket anywhere in the system.
With the Rocky system you could do something similar to the Specalized two chains and not have a visable chain on the cranks...but it would still be there. Rocky achieves a 2 stage gear reduction from the fast spinning motor by using the small drive cog with their main chain driven gear reduction. Off the motor you'd need a planetary/cyclodal/gear reduction that could achieve enough reduction to spin the larger drive ring at the right speeds. Someone would need to run some gear reduction math to see if it fits in the package space.
Forgot that Starling has basically done this already.
https://bikerumor.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/freeflow-ff60-ebike-motor-on-jack-drive-starling-steel-full-suspension-emtb-prototype-jpg.webp
https://www.starlingcycles.com/starlings-prototype-ebike-on-embn/
They used a FreeFlow drive (basically same as TQ) mounted to spin non drive side and ran a jackshaft across to dive side.
I guess it's cool that Brembo is probably definitely making the brakes on the spesh rigs but I'm really surprised so see this much hype about it. Like honestly tons of hype around it.
Similar to other brake discussions I really don't understand it. I'm not the gnarliest dude (by a lot) but I have codes on my bike now and have never ever wished I had a burlier brake. If I did I'd just buy saints??? I will always be impressed by the length of discussions people are willing to have regarding brakes, especially since the mavens released.
Any chance someone at the race can get a chainline photo of that spesh proto? It seems like the BB would either have to be super wide to accommodate the set up or its running a narrow rear end and everything's super tight?
Maybe a 142mm spacing with the chainring sitting equal to a 73mm and an 83mm wide BB?
Handling the crank to output ring (or whatever will drive the rear wheel) connection inside the drive unit casing should be fairly easy. Where it gets complicated is where do you out the output ring relative to the cranks? That very much defines the packaging of the complete bike and drives the suspension layout as well (pivot height).
This is something we have seen with gearboxes - Pinion was always concentric, Effigear used to do what you describe (and their layout was somewhat modular as their three shafts need not be in a straight line, so the height could be adjusted) but has recently gone with a concentric output as well.
I guess not everyone wants a high pivot or whoever wants one doesn't mind having an idler in there.
You are probably definitely in the wrong thread if you think everyone should be happy with codes or saints
If I didn't like Blue I would just buy Red??? Not seeing the need for other "colors."
Morning all :D Last video from the China Cycle Show from me I promise :D some cool-looking components from Lewis in this one. Thanks again for allowing me to share my videos, hoping to do more soon.
This a new fox lid or just sleeping under a rock?
(Its rock i guess haha)
Uses the peak of the new speedframe, parts.of the chinguard look like the full face but definately not a proframe nor a rpc
The thing is, not failing is pretty low goal to strive for isn't it? Because there is absolutely no performance benefit in this orientation whatsoever. Only benefit is free advertising from us talking about most likely soon to be released brake.
I know someone else has mentioned this before but some teams mounting of mass dampers is laughable. If it’s not a good positive connection it’s going to create even more vibration. Zip tied to the frame. Giant running it on the back of a plastic number boards.
Flavor of the month.
Looks very similar to the current moto version.
As long as you are/feel faster, everything is good in racing. Wheter placebo or not. I think in one of Downamics's IG post Steve from Vorsprung mentioned that it be interesting to see a comparison between a regular TMD and the same damper with the weight fixed in place.
Mass dampers are legit, but they need to be finely tuned (weight, spring, damper) for specific oscillations and frequencies. I have my doubts whether any of that is going on in the pits. Normal mountain biking, the terrain is so varied you could never find something to work everywhere. Race track maybe? But when you see the BS mounting methods, it doesn't instill a lot of confidence in the engineering.