I am personally very concerned about the ability for the user to toggle to class 3 and the higher speed cutoff. Specialized just opened a can of worms with access issues and ebikes being lumped in with electric motorbikes. Going to be interesting to see how this plays out.
Really wish Spesh would have just shadow funded their own version of STUnlocker not associated with their brand. I personally don't think the class 3 thing will be a huge issue outside of us nerds here but it's just unnecessary. The eSUV crowd and mountain bikers who want to derestrict their bike will find out how to do so with a Google search.
I'm going to go out on a fairly sturdy limb here and say that the venn diagram of riders who buy the new Levo and use the class 3 thing to plod down the blue Flow trail at Soquel Demo near Specialized HQ (where ebikes are technically not allowed) would look awfully close to a single circle.
(Disclosure: I've ridden my ebike there too, but only go there like once a year because its so vanilla.)
I am personally very concerned about the ability for the user to toggle to class 3 and the higher speed cutoff. Specialized just opened a can...
I am personally very concerned about the ability for the user to toggle to class 3 and the higher speed cutoff. Specialized just opened a can of worms with access issues and ebikes being lumped in with electric motorbikes. Going to be interesting to see how this plays out.
So much this. The opportunity for land access people to just say "well as even you can't tell the difference anymore unless you physically stop someone and check their machine the easiest thing is just to ban all bikes" I know access issues are different all over the world but the risks here out weigh the gains.
"In the US market, access to those options is open to the user, with Specialized saying it’s “up to the rider to switch modes according to local rules and regulations” I trust Specialized are going to be very clear to the dealers that all the sales floor reps have to make this crystal clear to potential purchasers.
Does that also mean that in Europe that option isn't available (i.e geo-restricted software?)
I am personally very concerned about the ability for the user to toggle to class 3 and the higher speed cutoff. Specialized just opened a can...
I am personally very concerned about the ability for the user to toggle to class 3 and the higher speed cutoff. Specialized just opened a can of worms with access issues and ebikes being lumped in with electric motorbikes. Going to be interesting to see how this plays out.
My god, the class 3 thing is a nightmare locally. We're going through a major US forest service recreation plan "re-work" and eBike access is a huge sticking point. The local MTB advocacy group was for opening up class 1 access but not class 3 because no one reputable made them. Thus implying that class 1 was as far as mtb eBikes would go.
But that argument is moot now.
As for my two cents? I don't honestly care all that much personally, but the access can-o-worms in the US at least makes me want to puch everyone at specialized in the face.
It is going to be a problem for sure. First retailer email I've seen on it (NB: I don't think ProBike Supply is going to be unique here so it is not about them mentioning it).
For all the marketing leading up to this, it’s actually just a pretty bland bike with a bit more power and battery. Specialized likes to talk about how innovative they are, but if this is their big release nothing about it really stands out at all.
I am personally very concerned about the ability for the user to toggle to class 3 and the higher speed cutoff. Specialized just opened a can...
I am personally very concerned about the ability for the user to toggle to class 3 and the higher speed cutoff. Specialized just opened a can of worms with access issues and ebikes being lumped in with electric motorbikes. Going to be interesting to see how this plays out.
You've got that backwards, It is a class 3 ebike with the option to turn on a 20mph speed limiter. That is the only way to logically treat this bike, and it is definitely a bad idea. Be prepared for land managers to not allow any specialized ebikes because of it.
I think everyone is overreacting. I have a Bafang Special ebike thats set to a 28 mph limit. On actual trails you never reach the 20mph limit, let alone the 28mph limit. I have yet to hear of a single real case where class 3 ebikes are somehow limiting access.
This new drive needs to be compared side to side with the Avinox. Specialized claims to have more torque, and in PB's review he hinted that it was climbing faster, but then never fully committed to reporting on how much.
We also need a better way to test range, apples for apples. From my ebike motor testing (between SL and full powered ones) Orbea's approach is the best- underpowered motors hot-rodded to have more watts/torque get worse efficiency than a larger, heavier motor thats detuned. So much so that for a given range and given weight, it actually makes more sense to put a full size motor and smaller battery, rather than a lighter motor that is required to run in a much less efficient power setting and requires a larger battery to compensate. My point is that the sweet spot for full powered bikes is probably an overpowered motor like the Specialized or DJI, but running at the more "normal" 85nm level.
I think everyone is overreacting. I have a Bafang Special ebike thats set to a 28 mph limit. On actual trails you never reach the 20mph...
I think everyone is overreacting. I have a Bafang Special ebike thats set to a 28 mph limit. On actual trails you never reach the 20mph limit, let alone the 28mph limit. I have yet to hear of a single real case where class 3 ebikes are somehow limiting access.
This new drive needs to be compared side to side with the Avinox. Specialized claims to have more torque, and in PB's review he hinted that it was climbing faster, but then never fully committed to reporting on how much.
We also need a better way to test range, apples for apples. From my ebike motor testing (between SL and full powered ones) Orbea's approach is the best- underpowered motors hot-rodded to have more watts/torque get worse efficiency than a larger, heavier motor thats detuned. So much so that for a given range and given weight, it actually makes more sense to put a full size motor and smaller battery, rather than a lighter motor that is required to run in a much less efficient power setting and requires a larger battery to compensate. My point is that the sweet spot for full powered bikes is probably an overpowered motor like the Specialized or DJI, but running at the more "normal" 85nm level.
Can’t class 3 ebikes legally have a throttle up to 20mph?
It’s not so much the 28mph that’s the issue, it’s the can of worms you open by legalizing class 3 ebike use.
For all the marketing leading up to this, it’s actually just a pretty bland bike with a bit more power and battery. Specialized likes to talk...
For all the marketing leading up to this, it’s actually just a pretty bland bike with a bit more power and battery. Specialized likes to talk about how innovative they are, but if this is their big release nothing about it really stands out at all.
The "innovation" here is that they cut out the sketchy fly by night middle man and allow users to make their bikes illegal for trail use in many markets off the shop floor.
At least in British Columbia*, the very fact users can (maybe, if the feature is allowed in Canada; and lets be real dealers can probably unlock it in software) adjust the top speed means that the new Levo is a Motor Vehicle under the Motor Vehicle Act and ceases to meet the definition of a Motor Assisted Cycle - so it isn't legal to use on most public trails and highways (almost every road).
I think everyone is overreacting. I have a Bafang Special ebike thats set to a 28 mph limit. On actual trails you never reach the 20mph...
I think everyone is overreacting. I have a Bafang Special ebike thats set to a 28 mph limit. On actual trails you never reach the 20mph limit, let alone the 28mph limit. I have yet to hear of a single real case where class 3 ebikes are somehow limiting access.
This new drive needs to be compared side to side with the Avinox. Specialized claims to have more torque, and in PB's review he hinted that it was climbing faster, but then never fully committed to reporting on how much.
We also need a better way to test range, apples for apples. From my ebike motor testing (between SL and full powered ones) Orbea's approach is the best- underpowered motors hot-rodded to have more watts/torque get worse efficiency than a larger, heavier motor thats detuned. So much so that for a given range and given weight, it actually makes more sense to put a full size motor and smaller battery, rather than a lighter motor that is required to run in a much less efficient power setting and requires a larger battery to compensate. My point is that the sweet spot for full powered bikes is probably an overpowered motor like the Specialized or DJI, but running at the more "normal" 85nm level.
It is making the distinction between bicycle classes difficult. Unless someone comes up with a standardized way of identifying them (like a giant sticker/panel in an obvious place) that could make things difficult to manage aside from an outright e-bike (or bike) ban.
The "innovation" here is that they cut out the sketchy fly by night middle man and allow users to make their bikes illegal for trail use...
The "innovation" here is that they cut out the sketchy fly by night middle man and allow users to make their bikes illegal for trail use in many markets off the shop floor.
At least in British Columbia*, the very fact users can (maybe, if the feature is allowed in Canada; and lets be real dealers can probably unlock it in software) adjust the top speed means that the new Levo is a Motor Vehicle under the Motor Vehicle Act and ceases to meet the definition of a Motor Assisted Cycle - so it isn't legal to use on most public trails and highways (almost every road).
I'm going to go out on a fairly sturdy limb here and say that the venn diagram of riders who buy the new Levo and use...
I'm going to go out on a fairly sturdy limb here and say that the venn diagram of riders who buy the new Levo and use the class 3 thing to plod down the blue Flow trail at Soquel Demo near Specialized HQ (where ebikes are technically not allowed) would look awfully close to a single circle.
(Disclosure: I've ridden my ebike there too, but only go there like once a year because its so vanilla.)
I think everyone is overreacting. I have a Bafang Special ebike thats set to a 28 mph limit. On actual trails you never reach the 20mph...
I think everyone is overreacting. I have a Bafang Special ebike thats set to a 28 mph limit. On actual trails you never reach the 20mph limit, let alone the 28mph limit. I have yet to hear of a single real case where class 3 ebikes are somehow limiting access.
This new drive needs to be compared side to side with the Avinox. Specialized claims to have more torque, and in PB's review he hinted that it was climbing faster, but then never fully committed to reporting on how much.
We also need a better way to test range, apples for apples. From my ebike motor testing (between SL and full powered ones) Orbea's approach is the best- underpowered motors hot-rodded to have more watts/torque get worse efficiency than a larger, heavier motor thats detuned. So much so that for a given range and given weight, it actually makes more sense to put a full size motor and smaller battery, rather than a lighter motor that is required to run in a much less efficient power setting and requires a larger battery to compensate. My point is that the sweet spot for full powered bikes is probably an overpowered motor like the Specialized or DJI, but running at the more "normal" 85nm level.
It is making the distinction between bicycle classes difficult. Unless someone comes up with a standardized way of identifying them (like a giant sticker/panel in an obvious place) that could make things difficult to manage aside from an outright e-bike (or bike) ban.
with how powerful these new motors are, these newer full-power eebs already felt like the throttle was moved from the grip to the pedals (at least in turbo.). class 1 ebikes were already blowing our doors off on climbing trails, so even if class three ebikes show up with throttles, my experience as an analog rider won't be all that different. we already have throttle MTBs hitting the market/youtube so lets not pretend that speci putting out a class 3 mtb is really the worst thing we are dealing with right now lol. also, for the record, they have had a class three MTB for years and none of you were bitching then.
with how powerful these new motors are, these newer full-power eebs already felt like the throttle was moved from the grip to the pedals (at least...
with how powerful these new motors are, these newer full-power eebs already felt like the throttle was moved from the grip to the pedals (at least in turbo.). class 1 ebikes were already blowing our doors off on climbing trails, so even if class three ebikes show up with throttles, my experience as an analog rider won't be all that different. we already have throttle MTBs hitting the market/youtube so lets not pretend that speci putting out a class 3 mtb is really the worst thing we are dealing with right now lol. also, for the record, they have had a class three MTB for years and none of you were bitching then.
It is making the distinction between bicycle classes difficult. Unless someone comes up with a standardized way of identifying them (like a giant sticker/panel in an obvious place) that could make things difficult to manage aside from an outright e-bike (or bike) ban.
with how powerful these new motors are, these newer full-power eebs already felt like the throttle was moved from the grip to the pedals (at least...
with how powerful these new motors are, these newer full-power eebs already felt like the throttle was moved from the grip to the pedals (at least in turbo.). class 1 ebikes were already blowing our doors off on climbing trails, so even if class three ebikes show up with throttles, my experience as an analog rider won't be all that different. we already have throttle MTBs hitting the market/youtube so lets not pretend that speci putting out a class 3 mtb is really the worst thing we are dealing with right now lol. also, for the record, they have had a class three MTB for years and none of you were bitching then.
Seems no one is paying attention to what is being sold right now. This new Specialized is tame by comparison.
Specialized Levo 4 is live. All the details and first ride impressions - https://www.vitalmtb.com/product/guide/e-bikes/specialized/turbo-levo-64786#comment-598601
I am personally very concerned about the ability for the user to toggle to class 3 and the higher speed cutoff. Specialized just opened a can of worms with access issues and ebikes being lumped in with electric motorbikes. Going to be interesting to see how this plays out.
Really wish Spesh would have just shadow funded their own version of STUnlocker not associated with their brand. I personally don't think the class 3 thing will be a huge issue outside of us nerds here but it's just unnecessary. The eSUV crowd and mountain bikers who want to derestrict their bike will find out how to do so with a Google search.
I'm going to go out on a fairly sturdy limb here and say that the venn diagram of riders who buy the new Levo and use the class 3 thing to plod down the blue Flow trail at Soquel Demo near Specialized HQ (where ebikes are technically not allowed) would look awfully close to a single circle.
(Disclosure: I've ridden my ebike there too, but only go there like once a year because its so vanilla.)
So much this. The opportunity for land access people to just say "well as even you can't tell the difference anymore unless you physically stop someone and check their machine the easiest thing is just to ban all bikes" I know access issues are different all over the world but the risks here out weigh the gains.
"In the US market, access to those options is open to the user, with Specialized saying it’s “up to the rider to switch modes according to local rules and regulations”
I trust Specialized are going to be very clear to the dealers that all the sales floor reps have to make this crystal clear to potential purchasers.
Does that also mean that in Europe that option isn't available (i.e geo-restricted software?)
My god, the class 3 thing is a nightmare locally. We're going through a major US forest service recreation plan "re-work" and eBike access is a huge sticking point. The local MTB advocacy group was for opening up class 1 access but not class 3 because no one reputable made them. Thus implying that class 1 was as far as mtb eBikes would go.
But that argument is moot now.
As for my two cents? I don't honestly care all that much personally, but the access can-o-worms in the US at least makes me want to puch everyone at specialized in the face.
Fair play to the PB review for calling it out.
It is going to be a problem for sure. First retailer email I've seen on it (NB: I don't think ProBike Supply is going to be unique here so it is not about them mentioning it).
Kind of feels like a jack of all trades sitting among a large group of masters of specific applications...
Want a fast uphill focused trail bike: AMflow
Want a fast descender: Crestline, Orbea Wild
Want a well balanced trail/enduro bike: New Mondraker Crafty
Want to pay more, for a heavier and worse specced bike: Specialised...
For all the marketing leading up to this, it’s actually just a pretty bland bike with a bit more power and battery. Specialized likes to talk about how innovative they are, but if this is their big release nothing about it really stands out at all.
Can’t believe the new Levo has the same short chainstay length for all sizes in 2025… Was this designed before the Stumpy 15? 🤦
I read flip chips can extend them to 444mm.
C'mon folks, it's ONE (1) click away: "Adjustable chain stay length"
https://www.vitalmtb.com/product/guide/e-bikes/specialized/turbo-levo-6…
You've got that backwards, It is a class 3 ebike with the option to turn on a 20mph speed limiter. That is the only way to logically treat this bike, and it is definitely a bad idea. Be prepared for land managers to not allow any specialized ebikes because of it.
Forbidden went full gas on the crab link
Many would argue that’s still way too short for the s5 and s6. My size medium Raaw has 445 chainstays, adjustable up to 450 on a 455 reach.
I think everyone is overreacting. I have a Bafang Special ebike thats set to a 28 mph limit. On actual trails you never reach the 20mph limit, let alone the 28mph limit. I have yet to hear of a single real case where class 3 ebikes are somehow limiting access.
This new drive needs to be compared side to side with the Avinox. Specialized claims to have more torque, and in PB's review he hinted that it was climbing faster, but then never fully committed to reporting on how much.
We also need a better way to test range, apples for apples. From my ebike motor testing (between SL and full powered ones) Orbea's approach is the best- underpowered motors hot-rodded to have more watts/torque get worse efficiency than a larger, heavier motor thats detuned. So much so that for a given range and given weight, it actually makes more sense to put a full size motor and smaller battery, rather than a lighter motor that is required to run in a much less efficient power setting and requires a larger battery to compensate. My point is that the sweet spot for full powered bikes is probably an overpowered motor like the Specialized or DJI, but running at the more "normal" 85nm level.
Can’t class 3 ebikes legally have a throttle up to 20mph?
It’s not so much the 28mph that’s the issue, it’s the can of worms you open by legalizing class 3 ebike use.
The "innovation" here is that they cut out the sketchy fly by night middle man and allow users to make their bikes illegal for trail use in many markets off the shop floor.
At least in British Columbia*, the very fact users can (maybe, if the feature is allowed in Canada; and lets be real dealers can probably unlock it in software) adjust the top speed means that the new Levo is a Motor Vehicle under the Motor Vehicle Act and ceases to meet the definition of a Motor Assisted Cycle - so it isn't legal to use on most public trails and highways (almost every road).
*for those curious, BC only has two classes of ebike, ebike and light ebike: https://www.canlii.org/en/bc/laws/regu/bc-reg-64-2024/latest/bc-reg-64-2024.html?resultId=354f694d35524481b20ab10442bea583&searchId=2025-04-08T09:14:09:068/fcf1b6c63bd94d89b2505a1f4050fb63
How's the adjustable chainstay lengths work with UDH/transmission? Genuinely curious from a function standpoint.
New Commencal Meta HT. Kinda boring in comparison to all the Levo attention, but looks like new brake rotors from sram?
They can have a throttle, but can only go 20mph on throttle (vs 28 via pedal assist). What Are Ebike ‘Classes’ and What Do They Mean? | WIRED
It is making the distinction between bicycle classes difficult. Unless someone comes up with a standardized way of identifying them (like a giant sticker/panel in an obvious place) that could make things difficult to manage aside from an outright e-bike (or bike) ban.
The chainstay length adjust is at the chainstay pivot, and not the dropout
god this is such a "forum post" of a post
Pretty sure those are class 2, class 2 ebikes have the throttles, 3 are pedal assist up to 28 mph
Me to forbidden after owning a druid 2 and they embraced the crab link convo from vital forums:
Carcinisation comes for all. It's like how all mass-transit eventually ends up as trains.
I think we have to call it "Vital's Law" now...
with how powerful these new motors are, these newer full-power eebs already felt like the throttle was moved from the grip to the pedals (at least in turbo.). class 1 ebikes were already blowing our doors off on climbing trails, so even if class three ebikes show up with throttles, my experience as an analog rider won't be all that different. we already have throttle MTBs hitting the market/youtube so lets not pretend that speci putting out a class 3 mtb is really the worst thing we are dealing with right now lol. also, for the record, they have had a class three MTB for years and none of you were bitching then.
What specialized e mtb Was a class 3?
Seems no one is paying attention to what is being sold right now. This new Specialized is tame by comparison.
https://optibike.com/optibike-elite-series/