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The Vital MTB Crew
Definitely the Rebirth of Nukeproof and Kona, those brands have a legacy that if lived up to is amazing.
how exactly does that "legacy" makes better today bikes?
1) The Ari rebranding didn't really do much for me.. I was already liking where they were going on the bikes prior to the rebranding.
2) The Nukeproof return is something I'm putting into the wait and see category. They were doing solid bikes at good prices. Will this continue? We'll see..
3) I guess I have a bit of a soft spot for Kona. With the original owners back, can they get back on track? I hope so..
So, I'm picking 3..
I'm not sure if that makes the current bikes any better. That would depend on what specific model we're talking about, and spec levels ect. A brand's legacy can make it a lot easier to sell to non 'core' mountain bikers though for sure. A well known brand can rest on their laurels a little bit, whereas a brand like ARI will have to stay pretty involved with racing and other sponsored riders to keep their name in the news.
I think most of the answers above weren't answering Glory's actual question. From his own response, I think he means from the perspective of the person buying a company, which would you rather have? This is a thread about companies after all, not about products. The legacy brands have value in name recognition, so even if the new offerings are nothing special, people who don't follow the current market will still buy them.
As a consumer who is following MTB, legacy means little, and I would prefer to buy what I think I really want. But if I were to buy say, a surf board, or golf clubs, I'm really just guessing, and would probably end up buying something with a name I recognize.
How many people these days still recognise Kona as a brand, let alone what the brand means to the history of MTB?
I mean I do, but I was a kid who used to drool over the stinky when I was 11 haha. That's what the guy who could do big drops and jumps that rode with my dad every once in a while rode. Legacy is definitely something that can be tapped into for marketing, and I do think that even people who don't know how important kona was could pick up on the vibe if it's used right, but it's a double edged sword where if the bikes don't live up the legacy the customers will get upset. If I was buying a company, trying to leave my personal biases behind, I would go for a legacy brand like Kona and Nukeproof over a rebranded company like Fezzari now Ari.
this video about vail resorts is pretty fascinating. it's about skiing but we're just skiing with wheels, right?
Legacy is indeed something that can be tapped for marketing, but only if it exists. Thus my question of how many people know Kona. I do too, I watched all NWDs, watched Barel fly down the lower parts of Maribor on his sled and everything, but I think the average young rider and the average ebiker riding bikes for the last few years never heard of Kona.
Absolutely, Kona is in a worse space publicly than they were in 2009, after the pinkbike forum had created a total toxic cloud around all of the broken stabs and stinkys everyone saw on pinkbike after they got ridden into tree's. Newer riders today have only ever seen Kona as over priced for an average bike since the 3rd gen process or financially floundering for 3-4 years.
I find with bike company's, legacy and nostalgia often get confused, like were people still buying Ellsworth's a few years ago on Legacy or the nostalgia of watching people shred on Dare's and Jokers in Kranked and NSX movies or seeing truth's in Moab? Kona's legacy died when the guys sold it the first time to a large company they didn't care about everything they had done over 30 years. At this point they need to completely rebuild it if they want to rely on it.
Ari on the other hand, started as a know nothing catalog bike brand that slowly built their brand and improved over time, growing slowly the last 10+? years, shedding most of their lack luster feel and oddly swoopy tubes, to clean lines, functional suspension and good prices. Add in making sure some of the top riders have bikes to ride after a couple of other company's fell through the cracks, I would say if Ari keeps on this trajectory, they're creating more of a legacy than Kona is at this point.
All that and I absolutely love Kona, I've had many through the years from DH to XC and currently have an absolute abomination of a 1999 Kona scab with Drum brakes and a dropper as a pump track capable winter commuter/bar bike that i built on 100% nostalgia for a bike I wanted when i was 14.
bit like intense to a degree
I remember racing a state round in 2001, every single rider was on an intense M1 except me lol. It was total market domination (because the bike was epic)
IDK, I never hit anything that big (nor any trees) and I cracked two Kona Coilairs back in that era
Speaking of the Golden Age, try and watch this without crying (completely off topic)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4J3L0oKUPU
Is that why Trek is doing all that customized parts, semi-custom paint job crap? They are sitting on thousands of carbon frames?
That's Matt's part. I think you mean this segment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2Y3_Nygzq0 [wipes eyes, blows nose] I'm fine, just something in my eye...
two random, anecdotal outdoor-related headlines from a newsletter i somehow receive
Lands' End is exploring strategic alternatives, including a potential sale of the company, after reporting a 61% drop in third-quarter profit and lowering its full-year outlook due to challenging market conditions. (i know lands' end isn't near our market, but 61% drop is crazy)
Thor Industries, the world's largest RV manufacturer, reported a 28.7% decrease in net sales to $2.21 billion for Q2 2025, attributing the decline to a challenging market environment characterized by dealer inventory re-balancing and softer retail demand.
Q2 2025? That's next quarter, is that supposed to be Q4 24?
Fiscal year vs. calendar year. Thier fiscal Q2 ended Jan 31.
Also, in other great news for domestic manufacturers who use aluminum....
Trump takes aim at Canada with doubled tariffs on metals
TBF, what killed Ells was Ells. The holier than thou attitude coupled with multiple frame point failures across their catalogue and their unwillingness to own up to em. Guy at a shop I worked at had a Dare FR that cracked right through the chainstay yoke and they wanted $500 for a new stay. Frame was 6 months old. (He went back to his Stab) Numerous Joker swingarm failures and a pair of headtubes ejecting. Tony has gotta be one helluva salesman to keep drawing outside capitol in to resurrect his business multiple times, but dealing with the company was great for teaching what not to do when a customer has a legit quality issue.
I remember the last import tax bonanza on foreign made aluminum, which resulted in USA made billet aluminum going up in price by 30% overnight, because basic economics. I’m sure round 1 of that is still fresh in your mind too.
And, that makes sense on the fiscal year note. Thanks.
Background: Factor is boutique brand that makes pretty highly-regarded, race-focused road bikes, not sure what the MTB equivalent is, maybe Frameworks? Buyers are generally riders who want something w/ more cachet than a Pinarello or S-Works...
"Factor Bikes has sold a majority stake to two Chinese investors, though the company's CEO Rob Gitelis remains firmly at the helm and as a major shareholder.
The investors are VSI, a private equity fund that will become the largest shareholder with a 31.72% stake, and Zhonglu Holdings (through its subsidiary Zhonglu Advantage Global Investment), which will hold 21.15% equity. The total investment amounts to approximately US$33.16 million."
This part seems pretty optimistic...
"The investment also comes with ambitious performance expectations. Factor must reach US$300 million in revenue with US$67 million in EBITDA by 2029. Gitelis said, "In part of their disclosure, it talks about my performance metrics, for which I will be judged. And, yeah, there's a penalty if I don’t reach my performance metrics, but then there’s also a positive outcome if I exceed them.""
https://escapecollective.com/factor-bikes-share-sale-what-it-means-for-…
Well, big injections of outside capital linked to ambitious growth goals have worked so well for other bike companies...
FWIW, Factor has xc frames too...
I heard a US based component company that was partnering heavily with a Canadian based component company had to pull out of the deal because of tariff uncertainty on the deal with materials going back and forth, and the Canadian company might be in rough shape.
I'm guessing this Canadian company is We Are One? Looks like they are now pushing Project 321 hubs as a Canadian made option.. Wasn't there a rumor of I9 buying We Are One?
Factor, as someone who knows multiple people who do bussiness with the factory that they use(which is not surprisingly,now one of their “investors”), got out over their skis trying to grow, ordered too much crap they couldn’t move, etc. Everyone i know in road and cx who was sponsored by Factor last year had their support rolled back mid summer. Factor was kinda a startup by an experienced one-person design shop, so hopefully homey gets paid well.
Unlike some of the other brands that factory builds for, Factor wasn’t newly aquired by private equity during the pandemic(Pinarello by LVMH, LVMH sold to a Family Office recently though) or a big-4 global brand with a vacuum cleaner salesman as a CEO that can sit on containers full of premium products for years.
Trying to grow lines of imported carbon skus sustainably is haaaaard. That factory does great work and cuts molds for prototypes cheaper than just about anyone else, but Factor expanded its production SKU’s too rapidly during a period of big changes in consumer demand in performance drop-bar/endurance xc bikes.
that one is my guess as well.
The PR on that deal kinda had me thinking that they "investment " by the factory into the brand might have based on Factor owing them money..
It would be sad to see WAO go, there goes your lifetime warranty...
Canada just announced retaliatory tariffs on $30B worth of US goods effective from tomorrow in response to the US aluminum & steel tariffs.
This is including sports equipements so most likely bicycles will be affected, but not confirmed yet.
I'd hate to see WAO go too... Prior to this trade war BS, they were one of the best deals on carbon wheels that didn't come out of China and with the good reviews I've seen, I would love to buy a set..
As for WR1, I hope they are doing ok. Their customer service has been amazing and their products are just as good.
They sent out an email saying they would cover the US customers tariffs for them. I think partnering with P321 just allows them to keep their overhead lower. The hubs are top notch and it isn’t the first time the two companies have worked together (my first set of WR1 wheels had P321 hubs (made in USA).
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