matt walker and his prototype session setupVideo Contents0:00 - Intro, Build Overview & Size1:22 - Adjustable Pivot Location and Progression3:04 - Tire Choice, Pressures, Inserts3:47 -...
matt walker and his prototype session setup
Video Contents 0:00 - Intro, Build Overview & Size 1:22 - Adjustable Pivot Location and Progression 3:04 - Tire Choice, Pressures, Inserts 3:47 - Suspension Settings, Bars, Tinkering 6:00 - Maven Brake Power and Unique Lever Position 7:45 - Seat Height, Testing Philosophy 8:52 - Tuned Mass Damper
Some really cool stuff on this frame. Nice refinements!
I've estimated a 19-20% leverage ratio in that configuration. It seems like the old leverage, but my estimate is that it goes degressive towards the bottom out(the last 20mm). This could be useful with the hydro bottom out on Rockshox.
The axle path in his current config goes rear about 7mm to 100mm of travel, then forward 8mm more than its starting point. The pedal kick is negative.
If I "flipchip" the main pivot and raise it, the axle path goes reward about 10.5mm and then forward past its starting point. The pedal kick was about 5deg or so in this setting.
I really like the countershox mounting location on BB!
Garbaruk posted on instagram that they have a new product announcing tomorrow, but a guy that I believe is sponsored by garabaruk seems to have pulled...
Garbaruk posted on instagram that they have a new product announcing tomorrow, but a guy that I believe is sponsored by garabaruk seems to have pulled the trigger on his post early.
Seems like Garbaruk is launching their own wheelsets, hubs, and spokes. Looks like some nice pieces, and it also seems like they have done a spoke very similar to industry nines "system" spokes.
Lets just hope they dont charge like €3k+ for a set, which is what a I9 System carbon wheelset with multiple colors costs here in europe. Post says "reasonable pricing" - Who knows what that is these days.
EDIT: Apparently its up on their website, with prices. Not cheap, but about €1k cheaper than an I9 Wheelset pre discount (I9 wheels are discounted now, but these are still cheaper) https://www.garbaruk.com/wheels-parts.html
Took some screenshots, since this instagram post might get deleted:
Why did they leave the springs out of an exploded view?
Also, ratchet system seems to be a crab 🦀 in hub world.
jackson's winning v10 from hardline has an STFU down low near the chainring (instead of on top of the stay like we normally see). why would you run this instead of just using a lower chainguide wheel? wouldn't they kind of do the same thing? maybe not identically based on placement of STFU, but surely a lower guide wheel would interrupt/isolate some of the chain flop to the chainring?
jackson's winning v10 from hardline has an STFU down low near the chainring (instead of on top of the stay like we normally see). why would...
jackson's winning v10 from hardline has an STFU down low near the chainring (instead of on top of the stay like we normally see). why would you run this instead of just using a lower chainguide wheel? wouldn't they kind of do the same thing? maybe not identically based on placement of STFU, but surely a lower guide wheel would interrupt/isolate some of the chain flop to the chainring?
(scroll to pic 2)
With a lower CG it's still free to come up and slap the rear triangle. The STFU keeps the chain contained and dampens some of the forces of the chain flapping around.
Yes, we use mass dampers to control wind accelerations in skyscrapers. They are basic shake weights suspended on springs. Slosh tanks are often used too. These...
Yes, we use mass dampers to control wind accelerations in skyscrapers. They are basic shake weights suspended on springs. Slosh tanks are often used too. These are purely for occupancy comfort.
They can be used for strength design but then they need to be active dampers to react to all frequencies.
Because if this, they are rarely used for strength design and almost never used in seismic design (as no one knows what frequency earthquake the building will actually see).
These shake weights will improve hand comfort but at the cost of bike playfulness.
I can tell you the countershox doesn‘t make my bike any less „playful“. I mean if you want a freeride/big jumps or light trail/xc bike you...
I can tell you the countershox doesn‘t make my bike any less „playful“. I mean if you want a freeride/big jumps or light trail/xc bike you probably wouldn‘t put it on in the first place.
Besides the actual weight I don‘t notice any different or weird feeling when jumping or trying to move the bike around fast. Whereas the added stability and comfort are huge.
The weight on your headtube is very noticeable though when pulling up the front wheel?I swap between a Dorado and a 180mm mezzer on the same...
The weight on your headtube is very noticeable though when pulling up the front wheel?
I swap between a Dorado and a 180mm mezzer on the same bike.
The weight difference is about 1kg.
The Dorado is way smoother and eats the rough better at the cost of front end weight which is quite noticeable.
I assume the same would be true with a shake weight?
It's a bit deeper than just the weight. The springs supporting the weight inside act as a damping force in itself. The force is transferred to the springs on both sides of the TMD, so if you pull on the bike for a bit of air, the weight is moving down in oppositionto the upward pull, vice versa with a downward force. It's tuned to the location on the bike.
I like to think of it as trying to level the bike like you would use a bubble level to square something you're trying to cut.
Garbaruk posted on instagram that they have a new product announcing tomorrow, but a guy that I believe is sponsored by garabaruk seems to have pulled...
Garbaruk posted on instagram that they have a new product announcing tomorrow, but a guy that I believe is sponsored by garabaruk seems to have pulled the trigger on his post early.
Seems like Garbaruk is launching their own wheelsets, hubs, and spokes. Looks like some nice pieces, and it also seems like they have done a spoke very similar to industry nines "system" spokes.
Lets just hope they dont charge like €3k+ for a set, which is what a I9 System carbon wheelset with multiple colors costs here in europe. Post says "reasonable pricing" - Who knows what that is these days.
EDIT: Apparently its up on their website, with prices. Not cheap, but about €1k cheaper than an I9 Wheelset pre discount (I9 wheels are discounted now, but these are still cheaper) https://www.garbaruk.com/wheels-parts.html
Took some screenshots, since this instagram post might get deleted:
Garbaruk posted on instagram that they have a new product announcing tomorrow, but a guy that I believe is sponsored by garabaruk seems to have pulled...
Garbaruk posted on instagram that they have a new product announcing tomorrow, but a guy that I believe is sponsored by garabaruk seems to have pulled the trigger on his post early.
Seems like Garbaruk is launching their own wheelsets, hubs, and spokes. Looks like some nice pieces, and it also seems like they have done a spoke very similar to industry nines "system" spokes.
Lets just hope they dont charge like €3k+ for a set, which is what a I9 System carbon wheelset with multiple colors costs here in europe. Post says "reasonable pricing" - Who knows what that is these days.
EDIT: Apparently its up on their website, with prices. Not cheap, but about €1k cheaper than an I9 Wheelset pre discount (I9 wheels are discounted now, but these are still cheaper) https://www.garbaruk.com/wheels-parts.html
Took some screenshots, since this instagram post might get deleted:
I was wondering if maybe the black ring shown between the ratchet ring and hub shell could be a rubber/elastomer spring.Does anyone have an idea of...
I was wondering if maybe the black ring shown between the ratchet ring and hub shell could be a rubber/elastomer spring.
Does anyone have an idea of what the red rings are for?
Must be for bearing preload or retention due to their positioning? The notches look like an interface so maybe they're threaded on the backside to preload the two bearings they're seated against?
The star ratchet is very thin, i guess because its a larger diameter than others (DT, One Up, Chris King (helix no star but same interface) it can get away with it.
They have a threaded end cap, so preload must be generated via the endcap for the whole system
jackson's winning v10 from hardline has an STFU down low near the chainring (instead of on top of the stay like we normally see). why would...
jackson's winning v10 from hardline has an STFU down low near the chainring (instead of on top of the stay like we normally see). why would you run this instead of just using a lower chainguide wheel? wouldn't they kind of do the same thing? maybe not identically based on placement of STFU, but surely a lower guide wheel would interrupt/isolate some of the chain flop to the chainring?
(scroll to pic 2)
That might not be a stupid idea. I've felt for a long time that problems with chain slap or chain drops have been related to the bouncing of the lower section of chain, and the current clutch derailleurs are a pretty blunt method of fixing it which isn't ideal. The digressive nature of using friction to stop the pulley means when it overcomes that breakaway force the chain will slap mega hard, so a more progressive damping system might be better and wouldn't add friction the suspension. This might be a slightly crude way of doing that, but I can see one way it could be working - giving the chain some freedom but would absorb the movement of bigger hits
Must be for bearing preload or retention due to their positioning? The notches look like an interface so maybe they're threaded on the backside to preload...
Must be for bearing preload or retention due to their positioning? The notches look like an interface so maybe they're threaded on the backside to preload the two bearings they're seated against?
The star ratchet is very thin, i guess because its a larger diameter than others (DT, One Up, Chris King (helix no star but same interface) it can get away with it.
They have a threaded end cap, so preload must be generated via the endcap for the whole system
I agree on the red covers/lids.
I also think claiming 60poe is ebike-safe is a bold move given even DT specs 24, but maybe they just warranty them out and it’s already priced in in a 500$ hub.
jackson's winning v10 from hardline has an STFU down low near the chainring (instead of on top of the stay like we normally see). why would...
jackson's winning v10 from hardline has an STFU down low near the chainring (instead of on top of the stay like we normally see). why would you run this instead of just using a lower chainguide wheel? wouldn't they kind of do the same thing? maybe not identically based on placement of STFU, but surely a lower guide wheel would interrupt/isolate some of the chain flop to the chainring?
(scroll to pic 2)
Without the lower guide the chain gets pretty slappy. He's been running this off and on for a bit.
Benoit uses something similar, even with a lower guide.
jackson's winning v10 from hardline has an STFU down low near the chainring (instead of on top of the stay like we normally see). why would...
jackson's winning v10 from hardline has an STFU down low near the chainring (instead of on top of the stay like we normally see). why would you run this instead of just using a lower chainguide wheel? wouldn't they kind of do the same thing? maybe not identically based on placement of STFU, but surely a lower guide wheel would interrupt/isolate some of the chain flop to the chainring?
Without the lower guide the chain gets pretty slappy. He's been running this off and on for a bit.Benoit uses something similar, even with a lower...
Without the lower guide the chain gets pretty slappy. He's been running this off and on for a bit.
Benoit uses something similar, even with a lower guide.
I was thinking about Benoit running the lower tensioner but couldn't find a pic, thanks for posting. Seems like he has been focused on reducing chain movement and noise for a while, possibly because he has previously ridden a belt drive bike and enjoys the silence.
Both solutions look good and I think reducing movement on the lower chain is a good move.
Garbaruk posted on instagram that they have a new product announcing tomorrow, but a guy that I believe is sponsored by garabaruk seems to have pulled...
Garbaruk posted on instagram that they have a new product announcing tomorrow, but a guy that I believe is sponsored by garabaruk seems to have pulled the trigger on his post early.
Seems like Garbaruk is launching their own wheelsets, hubs, and spokes. Looks like some nice pieces, and it also seems like they have done a spoke very similar to industry nines "system" spokes.
Lets just hope they dont charge like €3k+ for a set, which is what a I9 System carbon wheelset with multiple colors costs here in europe. Post says "reasonable pricing" - Who knows what that is these days.
EDIT: Apparently its up on their website, with prices. Not cheap, but about €1k cheaper than an I9 Wheelset pre discount (I9 wheels are discounted now, but these are still cheaper) https://www.garbaruk.com/wheels-parts.html
Took some screenshots, since this instagram post might get deleted:
Look forward to hearing more on this. I always had good luck with the aluminum spokes on the I9 wheels I owned in the past.
regarding Jackson's STFU placement... I find that exact spot is where SC VPP bikes get noisy. With the way the rear triangles are shaped, the chainstay drops down in relation to the lower link pivot, that drop section of the chianstay gets closer and closer to the chain as the suspension cycles. In general, my MT1, MT2, Nomad 6, HT2 have all made noise when the chain slaps that drop section of the chainstay. They are otherwise silent bikes... unfortunately, only making ALOT of noise when hammering through chunder and twanging the un-tensioned side of the chain.
thanks all on the jackson STFU thing. why, though, would they not run a lower chainguide roller? i get chains now are good and may not derail (although i wouldn't take the chance with a rider as gnarly as jackson), but wouldn't the lower roller help mitigate chain forces impacting the chainring?
thanks all on the jackson STFU thing. why, though, would they not run a lower chainguide roller? i get chains now are good and may not...
thanks all on the jackson STFU thing. why, though, would they not run a lower chainguide roller? i get chains now are good and may not derail (although i wouldn't take the chance with a rider as gnarly as jackson), but wouldn't the lower roller help mitigate chain forces impacting the chainring?
A chain guide is so close to the chain-ring, this does the same thing but better by constraining the chain closer to the cassette, less whip essentially.
thanks all on the jackson STFU thing. why, though, would they not run a lower chainguide roller? i get chains now are good and may not...
thanks all on the jackson STFU thing. why, though, would they not run a lower chainguide roller? i get chains now are good and may not derail (although i wouldn't take the chance with a rider as gnarly as jackson), but wouldn't the lower roller help mitigate chain forces impacting the chainring?
I have to assume that an actual roller, will keep the un-tensioned chain tight enough that it will start to transmit feedback to the chainring as the suspension moves. I think the chain slapping around is the thing they are trying to fix, and a roller could fix that problem, but introduce a butterfly effect of other concerns. That bottom of the chainstay slap that SC-VPP bikes have, is way more significant then I've experienced it on any other bike.
For me, I've run an STFU (on top) and then an ochain+stfu. From that experience, I've also just added an STFU to my trail bike as I do not want the complication or elasticity to the engagement on that bike. I have to say, that while the ochain tames the actual feedback you feel through your feet... just the noise of the chain slap being tamed gives you a lot of perceived benefits of the ochain.
I was told that the air bubbles in the oil would cavitate under the pressure, and leave carbon deposits in the damper?
It's pretty hard for aerated dampers to start cavitating - once the oil is foamed up it gets more elastic and cushions the oil so you get less pressure drop behind the piston cause cavitation. It might happen in certain shocks if the air collects at the top, between main piston and base valve (and would develop a distinct pop or knock sound) but its pretty rare and would usually foam up enough to be spread around. The Float X2 almost has the opposite problem- the original valving meant they had very little pressure difference across the main piston and needed massive internal pressure to generate any damping at all. Usually the foamy X2 shocks I see are super clean inside - a sign that they foamed up way faster than they should. If there's black deposits inside thats usually just regular breakdown/oxidation of the oil or wear of the internal components. If a shock is cavitating badly there will normally be other problems that appear earlier like causing the air to suck in, or violent knocking and top out issues.
The other black deposits I see on the surface of shims are normally shocks that haven't been serviced in a long time and could be related to localised cavitation but I think thats combined with certain oils that oxidise worse than others like highly modified high VI types
thanks all on the jackson STFU thing. why, though, would they not run a lower chainguide roller? i get chains now are good and may not...
thanks all on the jackson STFU thing. why, though, would they not run a lower chainguide roller? i get chains now are good and may not derail (although i wouldn't take the chance with a rider as gnarly as jackson), but wouldn't the lower roller help mitigate chain forces impacting the chainring?
You could run both - the lower guide wouldn't necessarily damp out the bouncing (or potentially make it worse by shifting to a higher frequency) and maybe they found the STFU was enough stop the chain bouncing off too
Some really cool stuff on this frame. Nice refinements!I've estimated a 19-20% leverage ratio in that configuration. It seems like the old leverage, but my estimate...
Some really cool stuff on this frame. Nice refinements!
I've estimated a 19-20% leverage ratio in that configuration. It seems like the old leverage, but my estimate is that it goes degressive towards the bottom out(the last 20mm). This could be useful with the hydro bottom out on Rockshox.
The axle path in his current config goes rear about 7mm to 100mm of travel, then forward 8mm more than its starting point. The pedal kick is negative.
If I "flipchip" the main pivot and raise it, the axle path goes reward about 10.5mm and then forward past its starting point. The pedal kick was about 5deg or so in this setting.
I really like the countershox mounting location on BB!
Some really cool stuff on this frame. Nice refinements!I've estimated a 19-20% leverage ratio in that configuration. It seems like the old leverage, but my estimate...
Some really cool stuff on this frame. Nice refinements!
I've estimated a 19-20% leverage ratio in that configuration. It seems like the old leverage, but my estimate is that it goes degressive towards the bottom out(the last 20mm). This could be useful with the hydro bottom out on Rockshox.
The axle path in his current config goes rear about 7mm to 100mm of travel, then forward 8mm more than its starting point. The pedal kick is negative.
If I "flipchip" the main pivot and raise it, the axle path goes reward about 10.5mm and then forward past its starting point. The pedal kick was about 5deg or so in this setting.
I really like the countershox mounting location on BB!
Some really cool stuff on this frame. Nice refinements!I've estimated a 19-20% leverage ratio in that configuration. It seems like the old leverage, but my estimate...
Some really cool stuff on this frame. Nice refinements!
I've estimated a 19-20% leverage ratio in that configuration. It seems like the old leverage, but my estimate is that it goes degressive towards the bottom out(the last 20mm). This could be useful with the hydro bottom out on Rockshox.
The axle path in his current config goes rear about 7mm to 100mm of travel, then forward 8mm more than its starting point. The pedal kick is negative.
If I "flipchip" the main pivot and raise it, the axle path goes reward about 10.5mm and then forward past its starting point. The pedal kick was about 5deg or so in this setting.
I really like the countershox mounting location on BB!
Some really cool stuff on this frame. Nice refinements!
I've estimated a 19-20% leverage ratio in that configuration. It seems like the old leverage, but my estimate is that it goes degressive towards the bottom out(the last 20mm). This could be useful with the hydro bottom out on Rockshox.
The axle path in his current config goes rear about 7mm to 100mm of travel, then forward 8mm more than its starting point. The pedal kick is negative.
If I "flipchip" the main pivot and raise it, the axle path goes reward about 10.5mm and then forward past its starting point. The pedal kick was about 5deg or so in this setting.
I really like the countershox mounting location on BB!
Why did they leave the springs out of an exploded view?
Also, ratchet system seems to be a crab 🦀 in hub world.
I love the hesitation as he morally questions his word choice.
jackson's winning v10 from hardline has an STFU down low near the chainring (instead of on top of the stay like we normally see). why would you run this instead of just using a lower chainguide wheel? wouldn't they kind of do the same thing? maybe not identically based on placement of STFU, but surely a lower guide wheel would interrupt/isolate some of the chain flop to the chainring?
(scroll to pic 2)
With a lower CG it's still free to come up and slap the rear triangle. The STFU keeps the chain contained and dampens some of the forces of the chain flapping around.
It's a bit deeper than just the weight. The springs supporting the weight inside act as a damping force in itself. The force is transferred to the springs on both sides of the TMD, so if you pull on the bike for a bit of air, the weight is moving down in oppositionto the upward pull, vice versa with a downward force. It's tuned to the location on the bike.
I like to think of it as trying to level the bike like you would use a bubble level to square something you're trying to cut.
I was wondering if maybe the black ring shown between the ratchet ring and hub shell could be a rubber/elastomer spring.
Does anyone have an idea of what the red rings are for?
Must be for bearing preload or retention due to their positioning? The notches look like an interface so maybe they're threaded on the backside to preload the two bearings they're seated against?
The star ratchet is very thin, i guess because its a larger diameter than others (DT, One Up, Chris King (helix no star but same interface) it can get away with it.
They have a threaded end cap, so preload must be generated via the endcap for the whole system
That might not be a stupid idea. I've felt for a long time that problems with chain slap or chain drops have been related to the bouncing of the lower section of chain, and the current clutch derailleurs are a pretty blunt method of fixing it which isn't ideal. The digressive nature of using friction to stop the pulley means when it overcomes that breakaway force the chain will slap mega hard, so a more progressive damping system might be better and wouldn't add friction the suspension. This might be a slightly crude way of doing that, but I can see one way it could be working - giving the chain some freedom but would absorb the movement of bigger hits
I agree on the red covers/lids.
I also think claiming 60poe is ebike-safe is a bold move given even DT specs 24, but maybe they just warranty them out and it’s already priced in in a 500$ hub.
Without the lower guide the chain gets pretty slappy. He's been running this off and on for a bit.
Benoit uses something similar, even with a lower guide.
I was thinking about Benoit running the lower tensioner but couldn't find a pic, thanks for posting. Seems like he has been focused on reducing chain movement and noise for a while, possibly because he has previously ridden a belt drive bike and enjoys the silence.
Both solutions look good and I think reducing movement on the lower chain is a good move.
Look forward to hearing more on this. I always had good luck with the aluminum spokes on the I9 wheels I owned in the past.
Garbaruk wheels are already on their website, not sure if it's visible globally:
https://www.garbaruk.com/wheels-parts.htm
Thats a thick shaft on Jacksons DHX2.......
If they use the same diameter in the new float x2 it likely won't have cavitation problems
aeration, not cavitation
I was told that the air bubbles in the oil would cavitate under the pressure, and leave carbon deposits in the damper?
regarding Jackson's STFU placement... I find that exact spot is where SC VPP bikes get noisy. With the way the rear triangles are shaped, the chainstay drops down in relation to the lower link pivot, that drop section of the chianstay gets closer and closer to the chain as the suspension cycles. In general, my MT1, MT2, Nomad 6, HT2 have all made noise when the chain slaps that drop section of the chainstay. They are otherwise silent bikes... unfortunately, only making ALOT of noise when hammering through chunder and twanging the un-tensioned side of the chain.
thanks all on the jackson STFU thing. why, though, would they not run a lower chainguide roller? i get chains now are good and may not derail (although i wouldn't take the chance with a rider as gnarly as jackson), but wouldn't the lower roller help mitigate chain forces impacting the chainring?
A chain guide is so close to the chain-ring, this does the same thing but better by constraining the chain closer to the cassette, less whip essentially.
Seems like they're going to the larger shaft diameter found on the DHX and Neo DHX.
I have to assume that an actual roller, will keep the un-tensioned chain tight enough that it will start to transmit feedback to the chainring as the suspension moves. I think the chain slapping around is the thing they are trying to fix, and a roller could fix that problem, but introduce a butterfly effect of other concerns. That bottom of the chainstay slap that SC-VPP bikes have, is way more significant then I've experienced it on any other bike.
For me, I've run an STFU (on top) and then an ochain+stfu. From that experience, I've also just added an STFU to my trail bike as I do not want the complication or elasticity to the engagement on that bike. I have to say, that while the ochain tames the actual feedback you feel through your feet... just the noise of the chain slap being tamed gives you a lot of perceived benefits of the ochain.
thanks @ebruner
clearly, can't argue w/ the bike performing exceptionally under jackson with how they have it set up.
It's pretty hard for aerated dampers to start cavitating - once the oil is foamed up it gets more elastic and cushions the oil so you get less pressure drop behind the piston cause cavitation. It might happen in certain shocks if the air collects at the top, between main piston and base valve (and would develop a distinct pop or knock sound) but its pretty rare and would usually foam up enough to be spread around. The Float X2 almost has the opposite problem- the original valving meant they had very little pressure difference across the main piston and needed massive internal pressure to generate any damping at all. Usually the foamy X2 shocks I see are super clean inside - a sign that they foamed up way faster than they should. If there's black deposits inside thats usually just regular breakdown/oxidation of the oil or wear of the internal components. If a shock is cavitating badly there will normally be other problems that appear earlier like causing the air to suck in, or violent knocking and top out issues.
The other black deposits I see on the surface of shims are normally shocks that haven't been serviced in a long time and could be related to localised cavitation but I think thats combined with certain oils that oxidise worse than others like highly modified high VI types
You could run both - the lower guide wouldn't necessarily damp out the bouncing (or potentially make it worse by shifting to a higher frequency) and maybe they found the STFU was enough stop the chain bouncing off too
Canfield doesn’t like it 😬
Interesting. What is their latest patent?
And does Canfield have deep enough pockets to litigate Trek?
Wouldn’t that only matter if Trek want to sell it?