As others have said, maybe because they actually think its going to make the difference in winning races and competing? Free shifting, weight distribution, unsprung mass. If...
As others have said, maybe because they actually think its going to make the difference in winning races and competing? Free shifting, weight distribution, unsprung mass.
If one of these teams wins, it doesn't just get them 100k, it buys the team/brand credibility. If gearbox bikes come out of this year with a 2 wins and a few podiums, your not interested? Crazy how much skepticism something new and progressive is getting.
If there was a performance increase I would expect more teams to have switched over prior to this $100,000 prize. I haven't heard of some simultaneous...
If there was a performance increase I would expect more teams to have switched over prior to this $100,000 prize. I haven't heard of some simultaneous major technology improvement. Hopefully there is! Just seems like they would talk about it a bit more in addition to the $100,000 prize.
See my above about trendchasing, though. WCDH has had more than a few "that'll never catch on" followed by "we're obviously all doing this in the next 3 months because someone is doing it and winning" moments in the past. all of the recent wheelsize changes had very quick adoption once someone won or podiumed on it.
As others have said, maybe because they actually think its going to make the difference in winning races and competing? Free shifting, weight distribution, unsprung mass. If...
As others have said, maybe because they actually think its going to make the difference in winning races and competing? Free shifting, weight distribution, unsprung mass.
If one of these teams wins, it doesn't just get them 100k, it buys the team/brand credibility. If gearbox bikes come out of this year with a 2 wins and a few podiums, your not interested? Crazy how much skepticism something new and progressive is getting.
If there was a performance increase I would expect more teams to have switched over prior to this $100,000 prize. I haven't heard of some simultaneous...
If there was a performance increase I would expect more teams to have switched over prior to this $100,000 prize. I haven't heard of some simultaneous major technology improvement. Hopefully there is! Just seems like they would talk about it a bit more in addition to the $100,000 prize.
The simple answer has already been pointed out….
Cash money (sponsorship from SRAM and/or Shimano being potentially linked to OEM deals)
See my above about trendchasing, though. WCDH has had more than a few "that'll never catch on" followed by "we're obviously all doing this in the...
See my above about trendchasing, though. WCDH has had more than a few "that'll never catch on" followed by "we're obviously all doing this in the next 3 months because someone is doing it and winning" moments in the past. all of the recent wheelsize changes had very quick adoption once someone won or podiumed on it.
If it's trend chasing then kudos on the marketing strategy. Wheel size seems a bit different since it had already become dominant in other disciplines and felt inevitable. But it is similar in that you have to design a new bike, so if there does seem to be a lot of success above expectations we'll see some scrambling to develop new bikes.
Does anyone have insight on additional financial support for all these teams switching to belt drives? It doesn't seem like the low (and further decreasing) probability...
Does anyone have insight on additional financial support for all these teams switching to belt drives? It doesn't seem like the low (and further decreasing) probability of winning a mere $100,000 would move the needle any meaningful amount. The most plausible reasons would be additional sponsorship funds from the belt associated brands or hoping to take advantage of the seemingly disproportionate publicity about the $100,000 prize. Additional sponsorship seems most likely, wondering if that's documented anywhere.
As I have said, no way do the financials add up: to produce a fleet of bikes for a team is more than 100k. Something else...
As I have said, no way do the financials add up: to produce a fleet of bikes for a team is more than 100k. Something else is going on. Plus, half these teams realize they will not win it.
Yes, something else is happening. All of the following is a guess, but I think a pretty good one. Gates, a company already well known for Motorcycle...
Yes, something else is happening. All of the following is a guess, but I think a pretty good one.
Gates, a company already well known for Motorcycle belts and that according to google, has $830m in revenue but has only dabbled in cycling in the fringes for years is saying LFG. They likely want in on the E-bike market as mixed motors/drivetrains evolve and full power E-bikes ditch derailleurs because lets be honest, traditional drivetrains just don't hold up as well under an e-bike mashing, and they know DH is going to test the to the limits. This is going to be their entry point and they likely know E-bikes will switch over to a more inside motor based drivetrain in the next few years as the designs improve.
Pinion already has units that can do it, and I bet Bosch, Brose (Spesh/Sram) and others will have matching stuff soon. Gates wants to drive the acceptance of belts as a standard, that they are built to last, and are just as good as chains without the hassle. Like anything else, best examples right now being electric cars or private space flight, it'll start out crude and with lots of room for improvement, but with people using them, suddenly have lots of investment to drive R&D, and as they get better, that's when you'll start to see wider acceptance and better performance.
This is the only thing that really makes sense with the project, as lighter weight bikes using gear boxes doesn't make a ton of sense unless they can get the weight down to current DT weights and prices, but E-bikes using a complete motor drivetrain with a belt absolutely makes sense and they're willing to put up cash not only to these teams, but sponsor them as well, I'm betting footing a pretty big bill for each if they were doing a whole press release with all the teams they had on their roster. IFR was on the ropes and now they have new and bigger name riders, AON coming out of no where with likely a stacked team, Atherton coming back in from everything thinking they weren't even going to be a team next year and MS doesn't really mess around with trying to get the best deals, or he wouldn't have had a top team thats been around for almost 20 years. It kind of starts to make sense that they switched to a company as small as Zerode if Gates wanted a 4th manufacturer to sponsor with a top team after Intense built that bike for them and there's one sitting there, ready to go.
See my above about trendchasing, though. WCDH has had more than a few "that'll never catch on" followed by "we're obviously all doing this in the...
See my above about trendchasing, though. WCDH has had more than a few "that'll never catch on" followed by "we're obviously all doing this in the next 3 months because someone is doing it and winning" moments in the past. all of the recent wheelsize changes had very quick adoption once someone won or podiumed on it.
If it's trend chasing then kudos on the marketing strategy. Wheel size seems a bit different since it had already become dominant in other disciplines and...
If it's trend chasing then kudos on the marketing strategy. Wheel size seems a bit different since it had already become dominant in other disciplines and felt inevitable. But it is similar in that you have to design a new bike, so if there does seem to be a lot of success above expectations we'll see some scrambling to develop new bikes.
i wouldn't say that mixed wheels was dominant in other disciplines, and even full 29 kinda came to DH and Enduro close to the same time.
Frame silhouette looks a lot like the Allied BC40. Allied + SRAM would make sense, given that Allied already supports a number of US-based privateers and...
Frame silhouette looks a lot like the Allied BC40. Allied + SRAM would make sense, given that Allied already supports a number of US-based privateers and Kate has been with SRAM for a long time.
I am slightly surprised to see Kate on a self-organized program. That would not have been my prediction.
Hmm, yeah, I can see that. I'm a bit surprised as well, but the fact that some members of the Walton family now own Allied, maybe this was a strategic move for her foundation?
With Trek's announcement today, it looks like #2 "Gwin back to Trek" fantasies have come to an end. Perhaps being a part owner of another bike...
With Trek's announcement today, it looks like #2 "Gwin back to Trek" fantasies have come to an end. Perhaps being a part owner of another bike company was a deal breaker.
All eyes on you Dan Atherton.
How about Gwin back to Yeti? has that been considered?
I actually can't imagine a better, potentially-reachable goal, than getting rid of a rear derailleur. It's been discussed for ages, but seeing it tested consistently for...
I actually can't imagine a better, potentially-reachable goal, than getting rid of a rear derailleur. It's been discussed for ages, but seeing it tested consistently for the last few years, makes me wonder if they aren't "getting closer"? Not having a potential race-ending derailleur break, or chain break is a very significant advantage if all other things are equal. Being able to bash through any course with extended rock gardens would mean seconds of advantage in a 3 minute run.
I love the belt drive & Pinion innovation but.... How many UCI DH race runs were lost last year to a broken mech or broken chain...
I love the belt drive & Pinion innovation but.... How many UCI DH race runs were lost last year to a broken mech or broken chain? I can't recall a single one.
Maybe not on the race run. But there were lots of broken mechs in practice and quali. Keeping the bike together during practice and maximizing that time (especially when its limited) is critical. Luca mentioned in the downtime podcast, how Fabien harps on the canyon crew for setting the bike down on the mech side because of this exact reason. Its all about removing variables.
Yes, something else is happening. All of the following is a guess, but I think a pretty good one. Gates, a company already well known for Motorcycle...
Yes, something else is happening. All of the following is a guess, but I think a pretty good one.
Gates, a company already well known for Motorcycle belts and that according to google, has $830m in revenue but has only dabbled in cycling in the fringes for years is saying LFG. They likely want in on the E-bike market as mixed motors/drivetrains evolve and full power E-bikes ditch derailleurs because lets be honest, traditional drivetrains just don't hold up as well under an e-bike mashing, and they know DH is going to test the to the limits. This is going to be their entry point and they likely know E-bikes will switch over to a more inside motor based drivetrain in the next few years as the designs improve.
Pinion already has units that can do it, and I bet Bosch, Brose (Spesh/Sram) and others will have matching stuff soon. Gates wants to drive the acceptance of belts as a standard, that they are built to last, and are just as good as chains without the hassle. Like anything else, best examples right now being electric cars or private space flight, it'll start out crude and with lots of room for improvement, but with people using them, suddenly have lots of investment to drive R&D, and as they get better, that's when you'll start to see wider acceptance and better performance.
This is the only thing that really makes sense with the project, as lighter weight bikes using gear boxes doesn't make a ton of sense unless they can get the weight down to current DT weights and prices, but E-bikes using a complete motor drivetrain with a belt absolutely makes sense and they're willing to put up cash not only to these teams, but sponsor them as well, I'm betting footing a pretty big bill for each if they were doing a whole press release with all the teams they had on their roster. IFR was on the ropes and now they have new and bigger name riders, AON coming out of no where with likely a stacked team, Atherton coming back in from everything thinking they weren't even going to be a team next year and MS doesn't really mess around with trying to get the best deals, or he wouldn't have had a top team thats been around for almost 20 years. It kind of starts to make sense that they switched to a company as small as Zerode if Gates wanted a 4th manufacturer to sponsor with a top team after Intense built that bike for them and there's one sitting there, ready to go.
It's Gates-gate...
I explored their website, and I never realized the dozens of applications that belts are used for. I think another sponsor helping field DH teams can only be a good thing. Like others said, time will tell if belt drives are more competitive with these teams on board. Will be an interesting season!
Anything on Cube Factory Racing? Max Hartenstern and Jess Blewitt are the only names i remember.
Very, very fast young finn Kasper Hickman coming to Juniors next year with Cube Factory Racing. Won IXS races last year and many times being fastest of all - including beating Andi Kolb at Schladming.
About Cube - isn't anyone thinking that isolated/floating brake mount from Cube proto would be next big thing after ochain and it's rivals? That completely isolates braking from suspension.
Why does EVERY thread descend into tech talk? Ah, cos MTBers are nerds 🤣
By my calculations Cube and maybe Yeti are the two main teams (hard to know with pivot) that have high profile riders that won't get a top 20 team slot. But Balanche, Blewitt, Rude, Harternstern etc. can all race in their own right. So what do the teams do? Trucks parked in the next town?
Crazy that Commencal is off Fox again. Back when they made the switch they even made an announcement video with jordi, publicly said how it was soo good that it was like cheating etc.
Wonder if it’s for sponsor money or performance reasons.
Crazy that Commencal is off Fox again. Back when they made the switch they even made an announcement video with jordi, publicly said how it was...
Crazy that Commencal is off Fox again. Back when they made the switch they even made an announcement video with jordi, publicly said how it was soo good that it was like cheating etc.
Wonder if it’s for sponsor money or performance reasons.
Lets be honest, the difference between tuned boxxer and 40 is negligible, both are absolutely capable of winning races so I doubt performance is the answer, more likely its the money.
Also dont forget the current itteration of Commecal team with Pierron and PomPom started on SRAM
How about Gwin back to Yeti? has that been considered?
Can we give up on the Gwin going anywhere but riding a Crestline this year?
The guy literally owns the company (or a part of it at least) why would he be out there promoting other brands in the same market segment as his own company.
You mean to tell me that we were this close to having a Loris-Jordi reunion, and now it’s gone?!?! That’s criminal!
I can't confirm, but an educated guess would be SRAM/RockShox offered them a sweet deal, and part of that deal was to sign Loris Vergier, who won Worlds on their product. Fox has had more elite male podium contenders for a while now, and with WB's viewing figures up over Red Bull, apparently...the optics check out. An increase in sponsorship dollars would have then presented itself, allowing them to secure Loris, and it's no secret that Fox Factory's cycling division has been struggling with inventory issues. I did hear from reliable sources that they originally switched to Fox on performance grounds relating to flex and the old 35mm Boxxer chassis, so there was no bad blood. Now that's in the past, and seeing as the new Boxxer is now chunky and universally liked and being on SRAM brake and drive already, plus Loris in the mix, it just makes sense...plus there's a full SRAM/RockShox Supreme dropping in March, too, which may or may not mean anything but hey—just my two cents, but this team will be highly potent this season, that I can confirm.
Max spending BIG. Also on red?2 former Union riders on TFRSyndicate expanding with some gromsThe Mob expanding but also looking at other optionsNorco will have a...
Max spending BIG. Also on red?
2 former Union riders on TFR
Syndicate expanding with some groms
The Mob expanding but also looking at other options
I can't confirm, but an educated guess would be SRAM/RockShox offered them a sweet deal, and part of that deal was to sign Loris Vergier, who...
I can't confirm, but an educated guess would be SRAM/RockShox offered them a sweet deal, and part of that deal was to sign Loris Vergier, who won Worlds on their product. Fox has had more elite male podium contenders for a while now, and with WB's viewing figures up over Red Bull, apparently...the optics check out. An increase in sponsorship dollars would have then presented itself, allowing them to secure Loris, and it's no secret that Fox Factory's cycling division has been struggling with inventory issues. I did hear from reliable sources that they originally switched to Fox on performance grounds relating to flex and the old 35mm Boxxer chassis, so there was no bad blood. Now that's in the past, and seeing as the new Boxxer is now chunky and universally liked and being on SRAM brake and drive already, plus Loris in the mix, it just makes sense...plus there's a full SRAM/RockShox Supreme dropping in March, too, which may or may not mean anything but hey—just my two cents, but this team will be highly potent this season, that I can confirm.
Boooooo. It's Reds. I'm a Forest Fan. Also, slightly team related, does anyone here hope we see Dialed again next season?
I was hoping hard to enjoy a new season of Loris vs Jordi shenanigans but alas, It wasn't meant to be. My dissapointment is inmensurable and my day is ruined.
I was hoping hard to enjoy a new season of Loris vs Jordi shenanigans but alas, It wasn't meant to be. My dissapointment is inmensurable and...
I was hoping hard to enjoy a new season of Loris vs Jordi shenanigans but alas, It wasn't meant to be. My dissapointment is inmensurable and my day is ruined.
Unless Fox brings back Dialed, it doesn't matter who is riding there stuff.
See my above about trendchasing, though. WCDH has had more than a few "that'll never catch on" followed by "we're obviously all doing this in the next 3 months because someone is doing it and winning" moments in the past. all of the recent wheelsize changes had very quick adoption once someone won or podiumed on it.
The simple answer has already been pointed out….
Cash money (sponsorship from SRAM and/or Shimano being potentially linked to OEM deals)
If it's trend chasing then kudos on the marketing strategy. Wheel size seems a bit different since it had already become dominant in other disciplines and felt inevitable. But it is similar in that you have to design a new bike, so if there does seem to be a lot of success above expectations we'll see some scrambling to develop new bikes.
It's Gates-gate...
priceless.
i wouldn't say that mixed wheels was dominant in other disciplines, and even full 29 kinda came to DH and Enduro close to the same time.
Hmm, yeah, I can see that. I'm a bit surprised as well, but the fact that some members of the Walton family now own Allied, maybe this was a strategic move for her foundation?
How about Gwin back to Yeti? has that been considered?
Maybe not on the race run. But there were lots of broken mechs in practice and quali. Keeping the bike together during practice and maximizing that time (especially when its limited) is critical. Luca mentioned in the downtime podcast, how Fabien harps on the canyon crew for setting the bike down on the mech side because of this exact reason. Its all about removing variables.
They’re already on SRAM I have a feeling they’ll be running RockShox next season instead..?
Pic above shows Vergier with a Boxxer
Wow that is surprising!
Didn’t they use trp brakes last season?
GEARBOX DISCUSSION GOES HERE - The Belt Drive and Gearbox thread
Rockshox it is
You mean to tell me that we were this close to having a Loris-Jordi reunion, and now it’s gone?!?! That’s criminal!
I explored their website, and I never realized the dozens of applications that belts are used for. I think another sponsor helping field DH teams can only be a good thing. Like others said, time will tell if belt drives are more competitive with these teams on board. Will be an interesting season!
Very, very fast young finn Kasper Hickman coming to Juniors next year with Cube Factory Racing. Won IXS races last year and many times being fastest of all - including beating Andi Kolb at Schladming.
About Cube - isn't anyone thinking that isolated/floating brake mount from Cube proto would be next big thing after ochain and it's rivals? That completely isolates braking from suspension.
Why does EVERY thread descend into tech talk? Ah, cos MTBers are nerds 🤣
By my calculations Cube and maybe Yeti are the two main teams (hard to know with pivot) that have high profile riders that won't get a top 20 team slot. But Balanche, Blewitt, Rude, Harternstern etc. can all race in their own right. So what do the teams do? Trucks parked in the next town?
Crazy that Commencal is off Fox again. Back when they made the switch they even made an announcement video with jordi, publicly said how it was soo good that it was like cheating etc.
Wonder if it’s for sponsor money or performance reasons.
Lets be honest, the difference between tuned boxxer and 40 is negligible, both are absolutely capable of winning races so I doubt performance is the answer, more likely its the money.
Also dont forget the current itteration of Commecal team with Pierron and PomPom started on SRAM
Can we give up on the Gwin going anywhere but riding a Crestline this year?
The guy literally owns the company (or a part of it at least) why would he be out there promoting other brands in the same market segment as his own company.
Come on you Rams?
I can't confirm, but an educated guess would be SRAM/RockShox offered them a sweet deal, and part of that deal was to sign Loris Vergier, who won Worlds on their product. Fox has had more elite male podium contenders for a while now, and with WB's viewing figures up over Red Bull, apparently...the optics check out. An increase in sponsorship dollars would have then presented itself, allowing them to secure Loris, and it's no secret that Fox Factory's cycling division has been struggling with inventory issues. I did hear from reliable sources that they originally switched to Fox on performance grounds relating to flex and the old 35mm Boxxer chassis, so there was no bad blood. Now that's in the past, and seeing as the new Boxxer is now chunky and universally liked and being on SRAM brake and drive already, plus Loris in the mix, it just makes sense...plus there's a full SRAM/RockShox Supreme dropping in March, too, which may or may not mean anything but hey—just my two cents, but this team will be highly potent this season, that I can confirm.
Boooooo. It's Reds. I'm a Forest Fan. Also, slightly team related, does anyone here hope we see Dialed again next season?
As I said….
Max spending big on Loris, on red boxxers.
2 former Union riders on TFR - Mcnab, Davis
Syndicate got the groms
Mob expanded, and Ahern doing other things
Norco has World Champs.
Anything else?
Rockshox it is.
I was hoping hard to enjoy a new season of Loris vs Jordi shenanigans but alas, It wasn't meant to be. My dissapointment is inmensurable and my day is ruined.
Unless Fox brings back Dialed, it doesn't matter who is riding there stuff.
Are people not literally looking back literally 1 page to see that this has already been covered?
Maybe.
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