MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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MauiMax
Posts
121
Joined
5/29/2024
Location
Lahaina, HI US
9/29/2024 5:41pm Edited Date/Time 9/29/2024 5:43pm

The one thing that makes me think it isnt a tr11 is the tapered head tube. The tr11 now is a straight 56 56 and they use their own reach adjust headset. I doubt they would move away from that for a new downhill bike but for the spire a tapered head tube makes more sense than it does for a dh bike. 

3
MauiMax
Posts
121
Joined
5/29/2024
Location
Lahaina, HI US
9/29/2024 5:46pm

Also the current tr11 has the cable port in the front of the head tube. Judging by that pic it has cable ports on both sides of the frame. Possibly for dropper post routing also making me think new spire or possibly patrol. I cant tell if thats a 29 or 27.5 rear

dolface
Posts
1657
Joined
10/26/2015
Location
CA US
9/29/2024 6:22pm
jazza_wil wrote:
No labels and zipped tied rear hose, can anyone name this frame? update, Just had a better look at home, rocker pivot says transition 

No labels and zipped tied rear hose, can anyone name this frame?IMG 7973 

update, Just had a better look at home, rocker pivot says transition 

Wonder if those dropouts will come in different lengths...?

4
9/29/2024 7:16pm
MauiMax wrote:
Also the current tr11 has the cable port in the front of the head tube. Judging by that pic it has cable ports on both sides...

Also the current tr11 has the cable port in the front of the head tube. Judging by that pic it has cable ports on both sides of the frame. Possibly for dropper post routing also making me think new spire or possibly patrol. I cant tell if thats a 29 or 27.5 rear

Cable ports may be for those in countries who run their brakes on opposite sides without mangling the cable to make it fit the standard routing. 

3
piratetrails
Posts
281
Joined
8/28/2021
Location
Arcadia, VA US
9/29/2024 7:24pm
Primoz wrote:
That has already happened. Scott and Transition went 4 bar to name two (there are others I can't remember right now) while YT and Canyon expanded...

That has already happened. Scott and Transition went 4 bar to name two (there are others I can't remember right now) while YT and Canyon expanded into the North American market after the patent ran out.

Finkill wrote:

Yep, plus Marin and several others. Wonder if we will end up with this being the dominant design across the whole industry. 

On the suspension acronym/patent issue, curious for thoughts of people on the front lines of the industry dealing with customers. My perception may be clouded by...

On the suspension acronym/patent issue, curious for thoughts of people on the front lines of the industry dealing with customers. My perception may be clouded by the evolution of my personal knowledge, but it seems to me that

- the consumers swayed by things like "VPP" have moved on to being swayed by electronic shifting and suspension gadgets and other similar things, 

- more educated consumers are mainly looking at curves as they are now widely available and a good chunk of us have some idea what they mean,

- the layout/type of suspension is more a matter of bike nerdery than something that impacts an informed buying decision (other than maybe the stress the layout puts on the shock).

Am I way off base on this?  Do people still care whether a frame is VPP or not?

I agree with this. Spent 4 years on DW link from Turner, Ripmo V1 and V2. Then 3 years on horst links from Transition, Norco, and Specialized. (with single pivot from a Nukeproof Giga thrown in there) I did instantly feel the "magic" of VPP pedaling my Santa around on pavement after I built it, but if say SC made the leverage curve much more linear like Spesh did with the SJ 15 I'm out. I scroll linkagedesign.blogspot.com in the same way I scroll Vital or the other site. Moderate interest in electronic shocks but very happy letting engineering and physics do the "thinking" atm. Shoutout to @CascadeComponents for making my Patrol an amazing park bike and saving my SJ Evo (WRP saved that one too).

6
1
piratetrails
Posts
281
Joined
8/28/2021
Location
Arcadia, VA US
9/29/2024 7:32pm
jazza_wil wrote:
No labels and zipped tied rear hose, can anyone name this frame? update, Just had a better look at home, rocker pivot says transition 

No labels and zipped tied rear hose, can anyone name this frame?IMG 7973 

update, Just had a better look at home, rocker pivot says transition 

Hoping it's a 180mm freeride/park bike like I've bastardized my Patrol into! It being trunion maybe points to that? The current TR11 is not trunion and the consensus seems to be trunion is just for the packaging being able to fit a water bottle, I'm convinced 170/180mm rear dual crown bikes are the future for rental fleets those of us who don't race DH. Transition totally deserves to be contending with the alliteration of the Status 170 DH, Spindrift, Slayer, and Shore.

2
Primoz
Posts
4519
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
SI
9/29/2024 10:19pm Edited Date/Time 9/29/2024 10:22pm
Finkill wrote:

Yep, plus Marin and several others. Wonder if we will end up with this being the dominant design across the whole industry. 

On the suspension acronym/patent issue, curious for thoughts of people on the front lines of the industry dealing with customers. My perception may be clouded by...

On the suspension acronym/patent issue, curious for thoughts of people on the front lines of the industry dealing with customers. My perception may be clouded by the evolution of my personal knowledge, but it seems to me that

- the consumers swayed by things like "VPP" have moved on to being swayed by electronic shifting and suspension gadgets and other similar things, 

- more educated consumers are mainly looking at curves as they are now widely available and a good chunk of us have some idea what they mean,

- the layout/type of suspension is more a matter of bike nerdery than something that impacts an informed buying decision (other than maybe the stress the layout puts on the shock).

Am I way off base on this?  Do people still care whether a frame is VPP or not?

I agree with this. Spent 4 years on DW link from Turner, Ripmo V1 and V2. Then 3 years on horst links from Transition, Norco, and...

I agree with this. Spent 4 years on DW link from Turner, Ripmo V1 and V2. Then 3 years on horst links from Transition, Norco, and Specialized. (with single pivot from a Nukeproof Giga thrown in there) I did instantly feel the "magic" of VPP pedaling my Santa around on pavement after I built it, but if say SC made the leverage curve much more linear like Spesh did with the SJ 15 I'm out. I scroll linkagedesign.blogspot.com in the same way I scroll Vital or the other site. Moderate interest in electronic shocks but very happy letting engineering and physics do the "thinking" atm. Shoutout to @CascadeComponents for making my Patrol an amazing park bike and saving my SJ Evo (WRP saved that one too).

VPP magic pedalling it around? V2 Hightowers I see in my riding group all bob like crazy and everybody switches the shock platform on when it's time to go up. Or did you mean something else by magic?

Regarding the Transition (if it looks like a duck...), the seattube is hella bent and low insertion length, unlike what the Sentinel has:
image 60

7
9/29/2024 10:46pm
Eae903 wrote:
Yeah, I thought they had the exclusive license to use kashima in mountain bike suspension. I didn't realize that they had done it before but reading...

Yeah, I thought they had the exclusive license to use kashima in mountain bike suspension. I didn't realize that they had done it before but reading a bit into it it wasn't a very durable coating? 

Kashima incorporates tungsten disulfide as a lubrication agent, which keeps its lubricity at high loads. Many high end chain waxes now contain tungsten disulfide because it has good lubrication properties and ia durable. Pro teams on the road tour use this to save watts and during covid used to save chains, as less friction is less wear. 

3
2
Primoz
Posts
4519
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
SI
9/29/2024 11:22pm

Molybdenum disulfide. 

6
gibbon
Posts
463
Joined
3/7/2019
Location
wales GB
9/30/2024 2:20am
Primoz wrote:

Molybdenum disulfide. 

Gesundheit.

16
sethimus
Posts
870
Joined
9/20/2014
Location
CH
9/30/2024 4:20am
Primoz wrote:

Molybdenum disulfide. 

gibbon wrote:

Gesundheit.

that would be Molybdändisulfid then

3
9/30/2024 4:35am
2supple wrote:
Spotted this in the wild. Any ideas? New super deluxe ultimate?

Spotted this in the wild. Any ideas? New super deluxe ultimate? IMG 4966.jpeg?VersionId=.SmwAKFcjxN8qmHzMPaTNW8qorLQPT

You can also see the reflection of the reverb axs with the battery on the collar in the car

17
9/30/2024 5:23am
2supple wrote:
Spotted this in the wild. Any ideas? New super deluxe ultimate?

Spotted this in the wild. Any ideas? New super deluxe ultimate? IMG 4966.jpeg?VersionId=.SmwAKFcjxN8qmHzMPaTNW8qorLQPT

You can also see the reflection of the reverb axs with the battery on the collar in the car

This guy right here, looking at reflections, is why I keep coming to this post :D

21
9/30/2024 5:39am
Primoz wrote:

Molybdenum disulfide. 

I stand corrected. Almost as good as Tungsten Disulfide,then. Same type of lubrication

1
piratetrails
Posts
281
Joined
8/28/2021
Location
Arcadia, VA US
9/30/2024 5:44am
On the suspension acronym/patent issue, curious for thoughts of people on the front lines of the industry dealing with customers. My perception may be clouded by...

On the suspension acronym/patent issue, curious for thoughts of people on the front lines of the industry dealing with customers. My perception may be clouded by the evolution of my personal knowledge, but it seems to me that

- the consumers swayed by things like "VPP" have moved on to being swayed by electronic shifting and suspension gadgets and other similar things, 

- more educated consumers are mainly looking at curves as they are now widely available and a good chunk of us have some idea what they mean,

- the layout/type of suspension is more a matter of bike nerdery than something that impacts an informed buying decision (other than maybe the stress the layout puts on the shock).

Am I way off base on this?  Do people still care whether a frame is VPP or not?

I agree with this. Spent 4 years on DW link from Turner, Ripmo V1 and V2. Then 3 years on horst links from Transition, Norco, and...

I agree with this. Spent 4 years on DW link from Turner, Ripmo V1 and V2. Then 3 years on horst links from Transition, Norco, and Specialized. (with single pivot from a Nukeproof Giga thrown in there) I did instantly feel the "magic" of VPP pedaling my Santa around on pavement after I built it, but if say SC made the leverage curve much more linear like Spesh did with the SJ 15 I'm out. I scroll linkagedesign.blogspot.com in the same way I scroll Vital or the other site. Moderate interest in electronic shocks but very happy letting engineering and physics do the "thinking" atm. Shoutout to @CascadeComponents for making my Patrol an amazing park bike and saving my SJ Evo (WRP saved that one too).

Primoz wrote:
VPP magic pedalling it around? V2 Hightowers I see in my riding group all bob like crazy and everybody switches the shock platform on when it's...

VPP magic pedalling it around? V2 Hightowers I see in my riding group all bob like crazy and everybody switches the shock platform on when it's time to go up. Or did you mean something else by magic?

Regarding the Transition (if it looks like a duck...), the seattube is hella bent and low insertion length, unlike what the Sentinel has:
image 60

No modern bike with anti-squat at or around 100% should be bobbing like crazy if the shock has the right pressure/spring rate.  Imo, VPP does feel more active but in terms of ground input not from my pedaling force or weight. It's better than my horst bikes on very techy climbs. Every bike I listed in the original comment has climbed great and has not warranted use of a climb switch.

2
nicompr
Posts
55
Joined
12/9/2021
Location
Villes FR
9/30/2024 5:46am
2supple wrote:
Spotted this in the wild. Any ideas? New super deluxe ultimate?

Spotted this in the wild. Any ideas? New super deluxe ultimate? IMG 4966.jpeg?VersionId=.SmwAKFcjxN8qmHzMPaTNW8qorLQPT

These knobs give me Manitou vibes

8
dolface
Posts
1657
Joined
10/26/2015
Location
CA US
9/30/2024 6:36am
2supple wrote:
Spotted this in the wild. Any ideas? New super deluxe ultimate?

Spotted this in the wild. Any ideas? New super deluxe ultimate? IMG 4966.jpeg?VersionId=.SmwAKFcjxN8qmHzMPaTNW8qorLQPT

nicompr wrote:

These knobs give me Manitou vibes

Doesn't SRAM/RS own the patent for putting sag markings on stanchions?

8
ShapeThings
Posts
115
Joined
8/19/2018
Location
Oakland, CA US
9/30/2024 6:56am
2supple wrote:
Spotted this in the wild. Any ideas? New super deluxe ultimate?

Spotted this in the wild. Any ideas? New super deluxe ultimate? IMG 4966.jpeg?VersionId=.SmwAKFcjxN8qmHzMPaTNW8qorLQPT

nicompr wrote:

These knobs give me Manitou vibes

dolface wrote:

Doesn't SRAM/RS own the patent for putting sag markings on stanchions?

They do. Formula got creative and put a frequency/ekg graphic on their shock that just so happened to correspond to sag numbers. Surprised others haven’t done some creative workaround. 

3
monarchmason
Posts
284
Joined
5/24/2022
Location
Nevada City, CA US
9/30/2024 7:02am Edited Date/Time 9/30/2024 7:03am
Primoz wrote:
That has already happened. Scott and Transition went 4 bar to name two (there are others I can't remember right now) while YT and Canyon expanded...

That has already happened. Scott and Transition went 4 bar to name two (there are others I can't remember right now) while YT and Canyon expanded into the North American market after the patent ran out.

Finkill wrote:

Yep, plus Marin and several others. Wonder if we will end up with this being the dominant design across the whole industry. 

On the suspension acronym/patent issue, curious for thoughts of people on the front lines of the industry dealing with customers. My perception may be clouded by...

On the suspension acronym/patent issue, curious for thoughts of people on the front lines of the industry dealing with customers. My perception may be clouded by the evolution of my personal knowledge, but it seems to me that

- the consumers swayed by things like "VPP" have moved on to being swayed by electronic shifting and suspension gadgets and other similar things, 

- more educated consumers are mainly looking at curves as they are now widely available and a good chunk of us have some idea what they mean,

- the layout/type of suspension is more a matter of bike nerdery than something that impacts an informed buying decision (other than maybe the stress the layout puts on the shock).

Am I way off base on this?  Do people still care whether a frame is VPP or not?

Redigging this up because I know some companies lurk here and in a way, comprehensive messages may be influential. A point I want to stress is how boring 50% of the market is. Its 4 Bar bikes. As someone else stated, its easy to make 4 bar bikes and easier to make them mediocre. It sure seems like a lot of companies copy and paste the same 4 bar design over and over and say its the second coming of Jesus. I give credit to Specialized that for a little I had their frames. They had SWAT. No one else had this. Now its more common and 4 bar frame storage bikes are going to be the norm. I guess my point is, if youre going to do 4 bar, do something unique with your frame to stand out from other 4 bar copy and pastes your competing against. Rant over. Sorry guys. 

2
3
Simcik
Posts
426
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
Loma, CO US
9/30/2024 7:23am
Hoping it's a 180mm freeride/park bike like I've bastardized my Patrol into! It being trunion maybe points to that? The current TR11 is not trunion and...

Hoping it's a 180mm freeride/park bike like I've bastardized my Patrol into! It being trunion maybe points to that? The current TR11 is not trunion and the consensus seems to be trunion is just for the packaging being able to fit a water bottle, I'm convinced 170/180mm rear dual crown bikes are the future for rental fleets those of us who don't race DH. Transition totally deserves to be contending with the alliteration of the Status 170 DH, Spindrift, Slayer, and Shore.

Bring back the Bottlerocket and give it a little more travel. I think that namesake deserves a return at some point. I know I LOVED mine. Such a fun and versatile bike. But apparently for it to be that style of bike, it has to start with the letter 'S'?  

7
Rick26
Posts
67
Joined
12/5/2022
Location
., BC CA
9/30/2024 7:32am

2025 Trek Rail+

160/160 MX

Bike still not up on website, I guess it'll drop at 12PM EST ?

 

Trek Powerfly 2025 test E-MTB WEB- 0
4
piratetrails
Posts
281
Joined
8/28/2021
Location
Arcadia, VA US
9/30/2024 7:53am

Wow 1 whole mm difference in chainstay length between the size S and M! Imagine how much cheaper the bike could be with only 2 or 3 carbon moulds for the chainstays instead of 5. We've reached peak "size specific chainstays" marketing hype.

6
Dave_Camp
Posts
460
Joined
8/25/2009
Location
CO US
9/30/2024 8:03am
Redigging this up because I know some companies lurk here and in a way, comprehensive messages may be influential. A point I want to stress is...

Redigging this up because I know some companies lurk here and in a way, comprehensive messages may be influential. A point I want to stress is how boring 50% of the market is. Its 4 Bar bikes. As someone else stated, its easy to make 4 bar bikes and easier to make them mediocre. It sure seems like a lot of companies copy and paste the same 4 bar design over and over and say its the second coming of Jesus. I give credit to Specialized that for a little I had their frames. They had SWAT. No one else had this. Now its more common and 4 bar frame storage bikes are going to be the norm. I guess my point is, if youre going to do 4 bar, do something unique with your frame to stand out from other 4 bar copy and pastes your competing against. Rant over. Sorry guys. 

Interesting take- I'm kinda the opposite.  I like seeing the convergence of designs and features.  At this point companies have to sweat the details and provide superior value to get business.

I want a reliable, good value that does what it's supposed to do... Don't care if the bike is different or rare.

 

20
Eoin
Posts
368
Joined
3/6/2015
Location
FR
9/30/2024 8:13am
Dave_Camp wrote:
Interesting take- I'm kinda the opposite.  I like seeing the convergence of designs and features.  At this point companies have to sweat the details and provide...

Interesting take- I'm kinda the opposite.  I like seeing the convergence of designs and features.  At this point companies have to sweat the details and provide superior value to get business.

I want a reliable, good value that does what it's supposed to do... Don't care if the bike is different or rare.

 

Gonna agree with this, give me "boring" but good geo and kinematics and looks, but give me decent value and warranty. Obviously this would apply to a lot of the main brands, plenty of smaller players can do the niche stuff...

6
2supple
Posts
99
Joined
1/23/2022
Location
Denver, CO US
9/30/2024 8:16am
2supple wrote:
Spotted this in the wild. Any ideas? New super deluxe ultimate?

Spotted this in the wild. Any ideas? New super deluxe ultimate? IMG 4966.jpeg?VersionId=.SmwAKFcjxN8qmHzMPaTNW8qorLQPT

You can also see the reflection of the reverb axs with the battery on the collar in the car

Good eye. I got excited about the shock and cropped the dropper… amateur hour. Here’s the full photo with the dropper


IMG 4965


 

15
Flo7
Posts
17
Joined
4/6/2023
Location
Biedermannsdorf AT
9/30/2024 8:24am
Wow 1 whole mm difference in chainstay length between the size S and M! Imagine how much cheaper the bike could be with only 2 or...

Wow 1 whole mm difference in chainstay length between the size S and M! Imagine how much cheaper the bike could be with only 2 or 3 carbon moulds for the chainstays instead of 5. We've reached peak "size specific chainstays" marketing hype.

I think only the main Pivot has diffrent Position. So you only need one chainstay length Wink

5
1
AndehM
Posts
600
Joined
5/7/2018
Location
El Granada, CA US
9/30/2024 8:25am

Definitely RS stanchion.  The air sleeve looks like either a prototype version of the new Linear XL air can, or the next generation of it (the XL portion looks even longer).  I wouldn't mind that new rebound adjuster, the dial adjust on the top right now has the clicks very close together and they're pretty fine.  In some frames where access is tough it can be hard to count clicks.  I wonder if they're reworking the damper end to include TouchDown?  I just tried a Linear XL air can on my SD compared to my Vivid, and while there's some noticeable difference in the air spring feel, the difference in damper feel is very different (favoring Vivid).

4
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