MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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Nobble
Posts
228
Joined
9/24/2010
Location
Lakewood, CO, USA
8/22/2024 12:13pm
Suns_PSD wrote:
My position is that with the mid-power e-bikes that are coming out, those are going to replace 'Enduro' bikes.Did you see the O'chain test that TeamRobot...

My position is that with the mid-power e-bikes that are coming out, those are going to replace 'Enduro' bikes.

Did you see the O'chain test that TeamRobot did? Pushing his Santa Cruz up that hill every time, while enjoying the improvement that the O-Chain brought. 

Wouldn't the E-Slash fix both of those issues? Don't tell me that a mid-power e-bike is cheating. How is riding your e-bike uphill cheating, yet walking or shuttling is somehow considered real biking? Give me a break.

I don’t know, a Slash+ is like 46lb.


For me personally, the self shuttle aspect of ebikes is completely ruined by the fact that they all seem to descend like crap because they’re so heavy. Good luck unweighting the bike to change lines. I always feel kinda forced to just smash through whatever is in front of me with no finesse.

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15
bnsleit
Posts
135
Joined
9/27/2021
Location
Missoula, MT, USA
8/22/2024 12:16pm
My feeling is that we were all a little too obsessed with how a bike pedals, it’s uphill performance, etc. downcountry created a category that freed...

My feeling is that we were all a little too obsessed with how a bike pedals, it’s uphill performance, etc. downcountry created a category that freed up trail bikes to be a bit more descent-focused. New stumpy and Bronson dropped a lot of anti-squat, and I think there is still a lot of AS on the table. 

I think bike lurker is right about hta, sta, and reach. I also think DH bikes are borrowing a bit from enduro and getting longer and lower, but most riders don’t want or need that.

I personally want my enduro bike to be a DH bike that I can pedal. I don’t even care how “well” it pedals, I just want a regular drivetrain on it and a decent geo/dropper. I’m starting to see that idea come through in new bikes and it will be interesting to see how far we take it. There is a ton of space to explore!

Nobble wrote:
I think the “enduro” bike as we know it is dying. We keep seeing enduro bikes creeping towards DH bike territory with longer travel and dual...

I think the “enduro” bike as we know it is dying. We keep seeing enduro bikes creeping towards DH bike territory with longer travel and dual crown compatibility, while trail bikes are creeping up on enduro bikes from the other side.


I can see the classic 160mm enduro bike going away and being replaced by 170-190mm descent focused bikes with dual crown compatibility like the Spire and Spindrift. Then riders with more mixed trails will gravitate to slightly shorter travel “all mountain” bikes like the Ripmo, Stumpy, and Bronson.

Suns_PSD wrote:
My position is that with the mid-power e-bikes that are coming out, those are going to replace 'Enduro' bikes.Did you see the O'chain test that TeamRobot...

My position is that with the mid-power e-bikes that are coming out, those are going to replace 'Enduro' bikes.

Did you see the O'chain test that TeamRobot did? Pushing his Santa Cruz up that hill every time, while enjoying the improvement that the O-Chain brought. 

Wouldn't the E-Slash fix both of those issues? Don't tell me that a mid-power e-bike is cheating. How is riding your e-bike uphill cheating, yet walking or shuttling is somehow considered real biking? Give me a break.

Because I would need a battery-powered motor to "ride" back uphill. I'm not against ebikes, I'll probably get one at some point because my trails are perfect for it, but you can't gloss over the undeniable difference between motor-powered (don't give me the "it's just an assist" argument) and regular bikes. They're different categories of mtb and, relative to not having a motor, having a motor is cheating if you're comparing it to experiences without one.

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7
Suns_PSD
Posts
395
Joined
10/7/2015
Location
Austin, TX, USA
8/22/2024 12:30pm Edited Date/Time 8/22/2024 12:33pm
Nobble wrote:
I think the “enduro” bike as we know it is dying. We keep seeing enduro bikes creeping towards DH bike territory with longer travel and dual...

I think the “enduro” bike as we know it is dying. We keep seeing enduro bikes creeping towards DH bike territory with longer travel and dual crown compatibility, while trail bikes are creeping up on enduro bikes from the other side.


I can see the classic 160mm enduro bike going away and being replaced by 170-190mm descent focused bikes with dual crown compatibility like the Spire and Spindrift. Then riders with more mixed trails will gravitate to slightly shorter travel “all mountain” bikes like the Ripmo, Stumpy, and Bronson.

Suns_PSD wrote:
My position is that with the mid-power e-bikes that are coming out, those are going to replace 'Enduro' bikes.Did you see the O'chain test that TeamRobot...

My position is that with the mid-power e-bikes that are coming out, those are going to replace 'Enduro' bikes.

Did you see the O'chain test that TeamRobot did? Pushing his Santa Cruz up that hill every time, while enjoying the improvement that the O-Chain brought. 

Wouldn't the E-Slash fix both of those issues? Don't tell me that a mid-power e-bike is cheating. How is riding your e-bike uphill cheating, yet walking or shuttling is somehow considered real biking? Give me a break.

bnsleit wrote:
Because I would need a battery-powered motor to "ride" back uphill. I'm not against ebikes, I'll probably get one at some point because my trails...

Because I would need a battery-powered motor to "ride" back uphill. I'm not against ebikes, I'll probably get one at some point because my trails are perfect for it, but you can't gloss over the undeniable difference between motor-powered (don't give me the "it's just an assist" argument) and regular bikes. They're different categories of mtb and, relative to not having a motor, having a motor is cheating if you're comparing it to experiences without one.

I agree that's it's a 'motor-bike', by definition. 

But ya know, pedaling uphill at 2 mph on a bike vs. 4 mph on a mid-power e-bike, ain't such a big deal in absolute terms. You are still crawling up that hill, nothing like a 55 hp KX450F.

As far as 'cheating', I ride by self 97% of the time when riding the e-bike, so not sure how I'm 'cheating' when there isn't even a race going on. I mean bikes are also 'cheating' hikers by your definition, but only if you are racing them.

But I certainly get the resistance to motorized assistance as I was there myself just 2.5 years ago. Don't know your trails, but I like the trails to be rocky and rough and although I did it for years, the idea of spending 80% of my ride time just slogging uphill for the 20% down, just seems like a colossal waste of time now. Still, even with the Relay I spend a majority of the time climbing, it just improves the ratio a lot.

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2
Uncle Cliffy
Posts
422
Joined
3/11/2010
Location
Medford, OR, USA
8/22/2024 12:34pm
Nobble wrote:
I don’t know, a Slash+ is like 46lb.For me personally, the self shuttle aspect of ebikes is completely ruined by the fact that they all seem...

I don’t know, a Slash+ is like 46lb.


For me personally, the self shuttle aspect of ebikes is completely ruined by the fact that they all seem to descend like crap because they’re so heavy. Good luck unweighting the bike to change lines. I always feel kinda forced to just smash through whatever is in front of me with no finesse.

You mean like, downhill bikes from 25 years ago? They were still a shit load of fun to me. 🤷‍♂️

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1
ioni
Posts
33
Joined
1/18/2024
Location
Villa De Alvarez, Col., MX
8/22/2024 12:40pm

Hey guys, I can’t find the post anymore, it’s been a few months at this point, someone mentioned specialized’s releases for this year - it was a statement from a British bike journalist if I remember correctly. Was it mentioned that the new Enduro would be out this year? Any rumors on the Alu Stumpjumper? Maybe y’all can help a brother out. 

2
1
seanfisseli
Posts
597
Joined
4/16/2024
Location
Santa Cruz, CA, USA
8/22/2024 12:43pm
Nobble wrote:
I don’t know, a Slash+ is like 46lb.For me personally, the self shuttle aspect of ebikes is completely ruined by the fact that they all seem...

I don’t know, a Slash+ is like 46lb.


For me personally, the self shuttle aspect of ebikes is completely ruined by the fact that they all seem to descend like crap because they’re so heavy. Good luck unweighting the bike to change lines. I always feel kinda forced to just smash through whatever is in front of me with no finesse.

You mean like, downhill bikes from 25 years ago? They were still a shit load of fun to me. 🤷‍♂️

I watch guys on e-bikes who are more nimble than I am on an XC bike. We can adapt to the extra weight. It’s really a question of: are you into the long quiet meditative climbs? I like them and I don’t need the ratio of time spent up:time spent down to change yet

13
1
gibbon
Posts
467
Joined
3/7/2019
Location
wales, GB
8/22/2024 12:44pm
ioni wrote:
Hey guys, I can’t find the post anymore, it’s been a few months at this point, someone mentioned specialized’s releases for this year - it was...

Hey guys, I can’t find the post anymore, it’s been a few months at this point, someone mentioned specialized’s releases for this year - it was a statement from a British bike journalist if I remember correctly. Was it mentioned that the new Enduro would be out this year? Any rumors on the Alu Stumpjumper? Maybe y’all can help a brother out. 

Alu Stunty has been seen out in the wild under sponsored riders.....complete with holes for analogue gears!!
It's all gone a bit quiet on the enduro front though.

10
veefour
Posts
855
Joined
7/31/2016
Location
Cinderford, GB
8/22/2024 1:03pm
gibbon wrote:
Alu Stunty has been seen out in the wild under sponsored riders.....complete with holes for analogue gears!!It's all gone a bit quiet on the enduro front...

Alu Stunty has been seen out in the wild under sponsored riders.....complete with holes for analogue gears!!
It's all gone a bit quiet on the enduro front though.

Nooooo. Please don't tell me that same BS nomenclature is now going to migrate over to cable operated components as well. I'm not sure I can take it.

16
kingsleyrh
Posts
5
Joined
7/23/2024
Location
Hastings, NZ
8/22/2024 2:00pm
ioni wrote:
Hey guys, I can’t find the post anymore, it’s been a few months at this point, someone mentioned specialized’s releases for this year - it was...

Hey guys, I can’t find the post anymore, it’s been a few months at this point, someone mentioned specialized’s releases for this year - it was a statement from a British bike journalist if I remember correctly. Was it mentioned that the new Enduro would be out this year? Any rumors on the Alu Stumpjumper? Maybe y’all can help a brother out. 

I heard that the stumpy 15 alloy release date is sometime this Sep/Oct 

3
Nobble
Posts
228
Joined
9/24/2010
Location
Lakewood, CO, USA
8/22/2024 2:43pm
Nobble wrote:
I don’t know, a Slash+ is like 46lb.For me personally, the self shuttle aspect of ebikes is completely ruined by the fact that they all seem...

I don’t know, a Slash+ is like 46lb.


For me personally, the self shuttle aspect of ebikes is completely ruined by the fact that they all seem to descend like crap because they’re so heavy. Good luck unweighting the bike to change lines. I always feel kinda forced to just smash through whatever is in front of me with no finesse.

You mean like, downhill bikes from 25 years ago? They were still a shit load of fun to me. 🤷‍♂️

I guess? 🤷

Personally I only ride up so I can ride down. If the down is less fun, it doesn’t really matter to me how much easier the climb is.

I’d be curious how light you could make an ebike without a large internal battery that just ran on a small external battery. (like the size of a range extender) If I could get like 2 of my local laps (1000-1200ft of vert) on a mini-pack and just swap them out at the truck, that would be kinda cool. Just keep a few batteries in the truck. For longer rides you could stick one in a fanny pack water bottle slot.

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owl-x
Posts
966
Joined
3/23/2016
Location
Shell Beach, CA, USA
8/22/2024 3:35pm

I really need to see you guys ride. 

30
sethimus
Posts
954
Joined
9/20/2014
Location
CH
8/22/2024 3:47pm
Nobble wrote:
I don’t know, a Slash+ is like 46lb.For me personally, the self shuttle aspect of ebikes is completely ruined by the fact that they all seem...

I don’t know, a Slash+ is like 46lb.


For me personally, the self shuttle aspect of ebikes is completely ruined by the fact that they all seem to descend like crap because they’re so heavy. Good luck unweighting the bike to change lines. I always feel kinda forced to just smash through whatever is in front of me with no finesse.

You mean like, downhill bikes from 25 years ago? They were still a shit load of fun to me. 🤷‍♂️

Nobble wrote:
I guess? 🤷Personally I only ride up so I can ride down. If the down is less fun, it doesn’t really matter to me how much...

I guess? 🤷

Personally I only ride up so I can ride down. If the down is less fun, it doesn’t really matter to me how much easier the climb is.

I’d be curious how light you could make an ebike without a large internal battery that just ran on a small external battery. (like the size of a range extender) If I could get like 2 of my local laps (1000-1200ft of vert) on a mini-pack and just swap them out at the truck, that would be kinda cool. Just keep a few batteries in the truck. For longer rides you could stick one in a fanny pack water bottle slot.

every specialized sl bike can be ridden without the big battery, so 1.8kg less 

2
1
Nobble
Posts
228
Joined
9/24/2010
Location
Lakewood, CO, USA
8/22/2024 4:07pm
sethimus wrote:

every specialized sl bike can be ridden without the big battery, so 1.8kg less 

Yeah, but that still has all the frame structure and support for the big battery. I meant designed from scratch that way.

1
3
8/22/2024 4:21pm
owl-x wrote:

I really need to see you guys ride. 

I've watched some pinkbike commenters ride...... it's like watching kids on balance bikes.
but they are more than happy to say X bike sucks on double blacks/prolines lol.

16
3
8/22/2024 10:17pm

Anyone heard any rumours about when a new Trek Rail is due? About to pick up a runout deal on a 9.9 but wondering how long until I will feel bad about not waiting for the new model.

2
Evil96
Posts
876
Joined
8/21/2014
Location
Portogruaro, VE, IT
8/22/2024 10:38pm
ioni wrote:
Hey guys, I can’t find the post anymore, it’s been a few months at this point, someone mentioned specialized’s releases for this year - it was...

Hey guys, I can’t find the post anymore, it’s been a few months at this point, someone mentioned specialized’s releases for this year - it was a statement from a British bike journalist if I remember correctly. Was it mentioned that the new Enduro would be out this year? Any rumors on the Alu Stumpjumper? Maybe y’all can help a brother out. 

we can help you by saving you from getting either the stumpy alloy or the enduro

1
4
B Rabbit
Posts
52
Joined
1/13/2024
Location
Sydney, NSW, AU
8/22/2024 10:46pm
ioni wrote:
Hey guys, I can’t find the post anymore, it’s been a few months at this point, someone mentioned specialized’s releases for this year - it was...

Hey guys, I can’t find the post anymore, it’s been a few months at this point, someone mentioned specialized’s releases for this year - it was a statement from a British bike journalist if I remember correctly. Was it mentioned that the new Enduro would be out this year? Any rumors on the Alu Stumpjumper? Maybe y’all can help a brother out. 

There was a strong rumor going around recently that the Enduro was going to get an UDH update soon, like real soon. But crickets so far. I dont think you'll be seeing a new Enduro design till mid next year. 

9
gbcoke
Posts
102
Joined
1/6/2016
Location
USA
8/22/2024 11:31pm
Anyone heard any rumours about when a new Trek Rail is due? About to pick up a runout deal on a 9.9 but wondering how long...

Anyone heard any rumours about when a new Trek Rail is due? About to pick up a runout deal on a 9.9 but wondering how long until I will feel bad about not waiting for the new model.

Word is after Bosch's announcement of the gen5 motor, around Oct 1st (along with many other new bikes).

2
8/22/2024 11:37pm
Anyone heard any rumours about when a new Trek Rail is due? About to pick up a runout deal on a 9.9 but wondering how long...

Anyone heard any rumours about when a new Trek Rail is due? About to pick up a runout deal on a 9.9 but wondering how long until I will feel bad about not waiting for the new model.

gbcoke wrote:

Word is after Bosch's announcement of the gen5 motor, around Oct 1st (along with many other new bikes).

The Bosch announcement is October 1st?  Or is that the Trek Rail release date?   

 

Thanks 

8/22/2024 11:54pm
Nobble wrote:
I guess? 🤷Personally I only ride up so I can ride down. If the down is less fun, it doesn’t really matter to me how much...

I guess? 🤷

Personally I only ride up so I can ride down. If the down is less fun, it doesn’t really matter to me how much easier the climb is.

I’d be curious how light you could make an ebike without a large internal battery that just ran on a small external battery. (like the size of a range extender) If I could get like 2 of my local laps (1000-1200ft of vert) on a mini-pack and just swap them out at the truck, that would be kinda cool. Just keep a few batteries in the truck. For longer rides you could stick one in a fanny pack water bottle slot.

Make your own bike park by installing a zip line from the top to the bottom, and send your battery down by itself every time you finish the climb. Shred down and pick up your battery again at the bottom.

24
8/23/2024 12:21am
iceman2058 wrote:
Make your own bike park by installing a zip line from the top to the bottom, and send your battery down by itself every time you...

Make your own bike park by installing a zip line from the top to the bottom, and send your battery down by itself every time you finish the climb. Shred down and pick up your battery again at the bottom.

Better idea: you pay me to ride down with you, I put the battery in my backpack (I'm apparently one of dozens who still like their backpack), then tow me back up! 

 

If you beat me to the bottom by more than 5% of your run's time, you get the next three runs free!!

 

But actually removable batteries and locked charging banks could make an e-bike park (shudder) a real thing. Bring two batteries, one charges while you ride the other on turbo, then swap to the one that was charging and repeat. Body will probably give out before needing another swap so maybe just having lockers with your spare battery in it...

4
8/23/2024 12:47am

according to local trek dealer the rail will be part of the Bosch announcement.

Still frustrating the really good gen 4 rail only got released as carbon and higher end spec's.
 

1
1
Evil96
Posts
876
Joined
8/21/2014
Location
Portogruaro, VE, IT
8/23/2024 3:29am
according to local trek dealer the rail will be part of the Bosch announcement.Still frustrating the really good gen 4 rail only got released as carbon...

according to local trek dealer the rail will be part of the Bosch announcement.

Still frustrating the really good gen 4 rail only got released as carbon and higher end spec's.
 

Which part of it is actually really good?

It’s the same thing as the gen 2 still rides like a school bus, let’s hope the focus on the next one is not just the motor power but actually ride feel like the Orbea Wild and the 160e that both ride way lighter than they are and actually move around easily 

1
4
juliusk
Posts
116
Joined
1/21/2021
Location
Clausthal-Zellerfeld, DE
8/23/2024 6:07am

On the Propain Website you can already spec the Enduro Supersoft Contis, haven‘t seen that elsewhere.IMG 4628 0.png?VersionId=r6IdaGlpGKhJ8epFaTm.U

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8/23/2024 6:41am
juliusk wrote:
On the Propain Website you can already spec the Enduro Supersoft Contis, haven‘t seen that elsewhere.

On the Propain Website you can already spec the Enduro Supersoft Contis, haven‘t seen that elsewhere.IMG 4628 0.png?VersionId=r6IdaGlpGKhJ8epFaTm.U

Looks like they got a bit thicker as well 🐷

1
Uncle Cliffy
Posts
422
Joined
3/11/2010
Location
Medford, OR, USA
8/23/2024 7:48am
iceman2058 wrote:
Make your own bike park by installing a zip line from the top to the bottom, and send your battery down by itself every time you...

Make your own bike park by installing a zip line from the top to the bottom, and send your battery down by itself every time you finish the climb. Shred down and pick up your battery again at the bottom.

image 4
11
owl-x
Posts
966
Joined
3/23/2016
Location
Shell Beach, CA, USA
8/23/2024 7:52am
iceman2058 wrote:
Make your own bike park by installing a zip line from the top to the bottom, and send your battery down by itself every time you...

Make your own bike park by installing a zip line from the top to the bottom, and send your battery down by itself every time you finish the climb. Shred down and pick up your battery again at the bottom.

Better idea: you pay me to ride down with you, I put the battery in my backpack (I'm apparently one of dozens who still like their...

Better idea: you pay me to ride down with you, I put the battery in my backpack (I'm apparently one of dozens who still like their backpack), then tow me back up! 

 

If you beat me to the bottom by more than 5% of your run's time, you get the next three runs free!!

 

But actually removable batteries and locked charging banks could make an e-bike park (shudder) a real thing. Bring two batteries, one charges while you ride the other on turbo, then swap to the one that was charging and repeat. Body will probably give out before needing another swap so maybe just having lockers with your spare battery in it...

This is exactly what we have been doing. Since March of 2020. 

1
Uncle Cliffy
Posts
422
Joined
3/11/2010
Location
Medford, OR, USA
8/23/2024 7:53am
Nobble wrote:
I guess? 🤷Personally I only ride up so I can ride down. If the down is less fun, it doesn’t really matter to me how much...

I guess? 🤷

Personally I only ride up so I can ride down. If the down is less fun, it doesn’t really matter to me how much easier the climb is.

I’d be curious how light you could make an ebike without a large internal battery that just ran on a small external battery. (like the size of a range extender) If I could get like 2 of my local laps (1000-1200ft of vert) on a mini-pack and just swap them out at the truck, that would be kinda cool. Just keep a few batteries in the truck. For longer rides you could stick one in a fanny pack water bottle slot.

An Ebike isn’t just about making the climb easier. At least that’s what I’ve learned about them. It’s more about time management. I don’t have to plan my whole day around a ride on my favorite trail. 

You can also get to trails that you don’t ride as much because they are easier to access. It’s also interesting to run them in a different direction that wouldn’t be feasible on your regular bike. Did I mention climbing technical trails has a whole new spin to it? 

I still prefer riding my analog bike to be fair. Ebikes are just another tool in the quiver to make riding fun.

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8/23/2024 7:54am
iceman2058 wrote:
Make your own bike park by installing a zip line from the top to the bottom, and send your battery down by itself every time you...

Make your own bike park by installing a zip line from the top to the bottom, and send your battery down by itself every time you finish the climb. Shred down and pick up your battery again at the bottom.

Better idea: you pay me to ride down with you, I put the battery in my backpack (I'm apparently one of dozens who still like their...

Better idea: you pay me to ride down with you, I put the battery in my backpack (I'm apparently one of dozens who still like their backpack), then tow me back up! 

 

If you beat me to the bottom by more than 5% of your run's time, you get the next three runs free!!

 

But actually removable batteries and locked charging banks could make an e-bike park (shudder) a real thing. Bring two batteries, one charges while you ride the other on turbo, then swap to the one that was charging and repeat. Body will probably give out before needing another swap so maybe just having lockers with your spare battery in it...

E-bike parks already exist. Well, at least one. We have a small bike park in Korea that is exclusive to E's for some reason. You can turn laps in about 10 minutes. Another bike park set up an open-side shed with outlets for bike/battery charging in the parking lot. People leave their battery and charger there for a few hours as they turn laps. No lockers or anything, just all sitting out in the open in the shed.

9
Suns_PSD
Posts
395
Joined
10/7/2015
Location
Austin, TX, USA
8/23/2024 8:43am
Nobble wrote:
I don’t know, a Slash+ is like 46lb.For me personally, the self shuttle aspect of ebikes is completely ruined by the fact that they all seem...

I don’t know, a Slash+ is like 46lb.


For me personally, the self shuttle aspect of ebikes is completely ruined by the fact that they all seem to descend like crap because they’re so heavy. Good luck unweighting the bike to change lines. I always feel kinda forced to just smash through whatever is in front of me with no finesse.

You mean like, downhill bikes from 25 years ago? They were still a shit load of fun to me. 🤷‍♂️

Nobble wrote:
I guess? 🤷Personally I only ride up so I can ride down. If the down is less fun, it doesn’t really matter to me how much...

I guess? 🤷

Personally I only ride up so I can ride down. If the down is less fun, it doesn’t really matter to me how much easier the climb is.

I’d be curious how light you could make an ebike without a large internal battery that just ran on a small external battery. (like the size of a range extender) If I could get like 2 of my local laps (1000-1200ft of vert) on a mini-pack and just swap them out at the truck, that would be kinda cool. Just keep a few batteries in the truck. For longer rides you could stick one in a fanny pack water bottle slot.

And I thought I was Weight Weenie! That is some contradictory shit right there. You want a bike absolutely as light as possible to optimize, the descents?! LOL

All this trouble and a custom one-off e-bike not useful for most riders that want to do more than just the same 600' lap for the rest of their lives, to save 2#s. Hopefully you are not a project manager or that brand is going bust!

A Relay frame weighs about 6#s. The battery weighs 5#s and does about 2-3.5K' in turbo mode and you can swap the battery quickly if need be. There is your solution, and you'll be able to double your descents.

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