MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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Finkill
Posts
227
Joined
9/2/2015
Location
GB
6/14/2024 12:12am
How’s the 2.1 to 3 not an upgrade? It was a full damper redesign. So in your case the 3 to 3.1 will be even less...

How’s the 2.1 to 3 not an upgrade? It was a full damper redesign. So in your case the 3 to 3.1 will be even less of an upgrade most likely. 

Finkill wrote:
I found the Charger 3 to be very harsh in a lot of situations. Did a lot of work to try and get a setup that...

I found the Charger 3 to be very harsh in a lot of situations. Did a lot of work to try and get a setup that worked but ultimately failed and put a 2.1 damper in my Zebs. The 2.1 damper is much better in my experience. Hopefully the 3.1 is a step up in performance. 

dknapton wrote:
Did you ever get a full service done on it? Mine felt the same way when I first got it, took it to Fluid Function (a...

Did you ever get a full service done on it? Mine felt the same way when I first got it, took it to Fluid Function (a rockshox service center) thinking there was something wrong with it. They did a full tear down and there was nothing wrong, but it came back feeling 100 times better. Was able to run the recommended pressure now, where before i had to go way less in order to not feel way harsh. 

Whole fork was stripped and serviced a couple of times before I made the change, no improvement  post service. Wonder if you had tight bushes or too much grease in the negative spring pre-service? 

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Finkill
Posts
227
Joined
9/2/2015
Location
GB
6/14/2024 12:15am
Every product release it’s the same story. We’ve done this we’ve done that, yada yada. Thing is, they are trying to cater to a broad market...

Every product release it’s the same story. We’ve done this we’ve done that, yada yada. Thing is, they are trying to cater to a broad market. New riders and advanced riders all in the same bucket with only 10 clicks to separate them. As bikes change and skills advance more quickly, this assembly line damping process struggles to keep up with the changes.

None of the fork companies would ever do this, but wouldn’t it be interesting if they just offered a chassis? You could build the forks tuning from the ground up with whatever tuner you think is best…

The new MRP Lift damper is sold in several different tunes for different weight ranges. Not quite what you are describing but a step in that direction. 

Would be good to see some reviews of this new damper. Hopefully it's a viable option. 

10
Glory831Guy
Posts
145
Joined
10/21/2023
Location
Santa Cruz, CA US
6/14/2024 12:21am Edited Date/Time 6/14/2024 12:24am
Every product release it’s the same story. We’ve done this we’ve done that, yada yada. Thing is, they are trying to cater to a broad market...

Every product release it’s the same story. We’ve done this we’ve done that, yada yada. Thing is, they are trying to cater to a broad market. New riders and advanced riders all in the same bucket with only 10 clicks to separate them. As bikes change and skills advance more quickly, this assembly line damping process struggles to keep up with the changes.

None of the fork companies would ever do this, but wouldn’t it be interesting if they just offered a chassis? You could build the forks tuning from the ground up with whatever tuner you think is best…

Honestly all they need is a heavy damping/light damping option to cater to 99% of riders. You're either a lightweight, or a big Boi when it comes to suspension.

Currently, lightweight riders get too much compression, and slow rebound. Big Bois like myself get too little comp, and rebound that's a little fast.

My last CCDB had a ridiculously large adjustment window, but the big two need a light/heavy damping option IMO.

3
Bob Chicken
Posts
70
Joined
3/30/2014
Location
YeahNah, VIC AU
6/14/2024 2:27am
Every product release it’s the same story. We’ve done this we’ve done that, yada yada. Thing is, they are trying to cater to a broad market...

Every product release it’s the same story. We’ve done this we’ve done that, yada yada. Thing is, they are trying to cater to a broad market. New riders and advanced riders all in the same bucket with only 10 clicks to separate them. As bikes change and skills advance more quickly, this assembly line damping process struggles to keep up with the changes.

None of the fork companies would ever do this, but wouldn’t it be interesting if they just offered a chassis? You could build the forks tuning from the ground up with whatever tuner you think is best…

Honestly all they need is a heavy damping/light damping option to cater to 99% of riders. You're either a lightweight, or a big Boi when it...

Honestly all they need is a heavy damping/light damping option to cater to 99% of riders. You're either a lightweight, or a big Boi when it comes to suspension.

Currently, lightweight riders get too much compression, and slow rebound. Big Bois like myself get too little comp, and rebound that's a little fast.

My last CCDB had a ridiculously large adjustment window, but the big two need a light/heavy damping option IMO.

You say that, but as one of the multitude of riders between sizes for bikes, you ask us to be between suspension tunes as well?

1
1
6/14/2024 3:47am

You don't need different tunes, just use different weight oils. The solution already exists, I know some of the elite XC people use an oil that's called almost water (I can't remember it's exact name, it's 2.5WT from memory? Someone will know what I mean). 

It's much easier to sell the same product, and just swap oils, that way you can onsell it, or gain weight, or lose weight, and it's like $2 of fluids instead of labour on rebuilding your stack. 

6
3
dknapton
Posts
54
Joined
11/5/2020
Location
CA
6/14/2024 6:18am
Finkill wrote:
I found the Charger 3 to be very harsh in a lot of situations. Did a lot of work to try and get a setup that...

I found the Charger 3 to be very harsh in a lot of situations. Did a lot of work to try and get a setup that worked but ultimately failed and put a 2.1 damper in my Zebs. The 2.1 damper is much better in my experience. Hopefully the 3.1 is a step up in performance. 

dknapton wrote:
Did you ever get a full service done on it? Mine felt the same way when I first got it, took it to Fluid Function (a...

Did you ever get a full service done on it? Mine felt the same way when I first got it, took it to Fluid Function (a rockshox service center) thinking there was something wrong with it. They did a full tear down and there was nothing wrong, but it came back feeling 100 times better. Was able to run the recommended pressure now, where before i had to go way less in order to not feel way harsh. 

Finkill wrote:
Whole fork was stripped and serviced a couple of times before I made the change, no improvement  post service. Wonder if you had tight bushes or...

Whole fork was stripped and serviced a couple of times before I made the change, no improvement  post service. Wonder if you had tight bushes or too much grease in the negative spring pre-service? 

My thoughts were on too much grease as I've seen a few people lost of that before. It makes me want to bring all new suspension in for a tear down now before I ride it though, and that's just kinda sad tbh. You shouldn't have to worry about the quality of assembly on a +$1000 suspension part. 

11
HexonJuan
Posts
379
Joined
6/10/2015
Location
WI US
6/14/2024 6:38am
You don't need different tunes, just use different weight oils. The solution already exists, I know some of the elite XC people use an oil that's...

You don't need different tunes, just use different weight oils. The solution already exists, I know some of the elite XC people use an oil that's called almost water (I can't remember it's exact name, it's 2.5WT from memory? Someone will know what I mean). 

It's much easier to sell the same product, and just swap oils, that way you can onsell it, or gain weight, or lose weight, and it's like $2 of fluids instead of labour on rebuilding your stack. 

Like Water from Red Line Oil. Haven't run it in a fork or rear shock, but apparently Fox says that's a big no, per a pal who runs a service center. I'm using it in my fat bike's dropper and brakes. Works a treat in the dropper, giving great return speed at 10deg F and running lower pressure in the cartridge. Brakes are unphased so far, but I'll have to wait n see how it handles summer heat before I make a firm value call on it for that use.

3
sspomer
Posts
6074
Joined
6/26/2009
Location
Boise, ID US
6/14/2024 8:09am

custom burgtec DM stem for reece wilson that was in their newsletter

reecestem2reecestem

4
mntnmrtn
Posts
76
Joined
11/27/2018
Location
NA, BC CA
6/14/2024 8:15am
sspomer wrote:
custom burgtec DM stem for reece wilson that was in their newsletter

custom burgtec DM stem for reece wilson that was in their newsletter

reecestem2reecestem

Looks short! Did the newsletter say what length it was?

1
chriskief
Posts
730
Joined
4/15/2017
Location
New York, NY US
6/14/2024 8:23am Edited Date/Time 6/14/2024 8:28am
Every product release it’s the same story. We’ve done this we’ve done that, yada yada. Thing is, they are trying to cater to a broad market...

Every product release it’s the same story. We’ve done this we’ve done that, yada yada. Thing is, they are trying to cater to a broad market. New riders and advanced riders all in the same bucket with only 10 clicks to separate them. As bikes change and skills advance more quickly, this assembly line damping process struggles to keep up with the changes.

None of the fork companies would ever do this, but wouldn’t it be interesting if they just offered a chassis? You could build the forks tuning from the ground up with whatever tuner you think is best…

Honestly all they need is a heavy damping/light damping option to cater to 99% of riders. You're either a lightweight, or a big Boi when it...

Honestly all they need is a heavy damping/light damping option to cater to 99% of riders. You're either a lightweight, or a big Boi when it comes to suspension.

Currently, lightweight riders get too much compression, and slow rebound. Big Bois like myself get too little comp, and rebound that's a little fast.

My last CCDB had a ridiculously large adjustment window, but the big two need a light/heavy damping option IMO.

Both Fox and Rock Shox offer a lot of different tunes for shocks, not so much for forks.

Rock Shox offers some aftermarket shocks already spec'd to specific frames, but typically you can't buy these installed at the factory for your aftermarket suspension (OEM has the option to choose), it requires a suspension service.

Couple examples...

Fox 38

image-20240614110916-2

Float X2

Screenshot 2024-06-14 at 10.54.28 AMScreenshot 2024-06-14 at 10.54.50 AM

Vivid Ultimate DH

image-20240614110120-1

 

1
sspomer
Posts
6074
Joined
6/26/2009
Location
Boise, ID US
6/14/2024 8:41am
sspomer wrote:
custom burgtec DM stem for reece wilson that was in their newsletter

custom burgtec DM stem for reece wilson that was in their newsletter

reecestem2reecestem

mntnmrtn wrote:

Looks short! Did the newsletter say what length it was?

yeah, sorry, 20mm - so a stubster for sure!

4
6/14/2024 8:52am
Honestly all they need is a heavy damping/light damping option to cater to 99% of riders. You're either a lightweight, or a big Boi when it...

Honestly all they need is a heavy damping/light damping option to cater to 99% of riders. You're either a lightweight, or a big Boi when it comes to suspension.

Currently, lightweight riders get too much compression, and slow rebound. Big Bois like myself get too little comp, and rebound that's a little fast.

My last CCDB had a ridiculously large adjustment window, but the big two need a light/heavy damping option IMO.

I've always loved Cane Creek rear shocks because of the external controls. You don't have to worry about buying the right tune, if you lose weight, swap frames, etc you can get the tune to where your super flat Starling Murmur stays off the bottom, or your super progressive YT Jeffsy will actually use all its travel. 

That being said, having a custom tune done correctly rides so incredibly well. My EXT Storia rides like dancing on a cloud. They are $850 new right now, about $200 more than you can get a DHX2 for, and not only rides better but has much better service support from EXT USA. There are so many good options right now for custom tuned or semi-custom tuned shocks, to me it makes little sense to buy a shock aftermarket from the Big Two. 

8
6/14/2024 9:51am
Every product release it’s the same story. We’ve done this we’ve done that, yada yada. Thing is, they are trying to cater to a broad market...

Every product release it’s the same story. We’ve done this we’ve done that, yada yada. Thing is, they are trying to cater to a broad market. New riders and advanced riders all in the same bucket with only 10 clicks to separate them. As bikes change and skills advance more quickly, this assembly line damping process struggles to keep up with the changes.

None of the fork companies would ever do this, but wouldn’t it be interesting if they just offered a chassis? You could build the forks tuning from the ground up with whatever tuner you think is best…

Good idea, would assume it's hard to scale. The money for Fox/RS is made on the OEM side, consumer side takes up a very small segment, so you'd likely see it in the form of aftermarket upgrades (like the MRP Lift damper already mentioned). It would be really cool to see more options like that come up from non-OEM suppliers.

Grave
Posts
15
Joined
4/11/2023
Location
Marquette Heights, IL US
6/14/2024 10:16am

From the EXT site. It's everywhere.

12
2
Poleczechy
Posts
244
Joined
4/20/2018
Location
Hartsel, CO US
6/14/2024 11:41am

Richie rolling on some some silver hoops, wonder if it's some 30th anniversary thing for DT Swiss? Looks pretty dope, actually. 

2
chriskief
Posts
730
Joined
4/15/2017
Location
New York, NY US
6/14/2024 11:49am
Poleczechy wrote:
Richie rolling on some some silver hoops, wonder if it's some 30th anniversary thing for DT Swiss? Looks pretty dope, actually. 

Richie rolling on some some silver hoops, wonder if it's some 30th anniversary thing for DT Swiss? Looks pretty dope, actually. 

Likely same proto rims Danny has been on.

9
Poleczechy
Posts
244
Joined
4/20/2018
Location
Hartsel, CO US
6/14/2024 11:53am
Poleczechy wrote:
Richie rolling on some some silver hoops, wonder if it's some 30th anniversary thing for DT Swiss? Looks pretty dope, actually. 

Richie rolling on some some silver hoops, wonder if it's some 30th anniversary thing for DT Swiss? Looks pretty dope, actually. 

chriskief wrote:

Likely same proto rims Danny has been on.

oh yeah, forgot about those protos. 

6/14/2024 1:08pm
Every product release it’s the same story. We’ve done this we’ve done that, yada yada. Thing is, they are trying to cater to a broad market...

Every product release it’s the same story. We’ve done this we’ve done that, yada yada. Thing is, they are trying to cater to a broad market. New riders and advanced riders all in the same bucket with only 10 clicks to separate them. As bikes change and skills advance more quickly, this assembly line damping process struggles to keep up with the changes.

None of the fork companies would ever do this, but wouldn’t it be interesting if they just offered a chassis? You could build the forks tuning from the ground up with whatever tuner you think is best…

Finkill wrote:
The new MRP Lift damper is sold in several different tunes for different weight ranges. Not quite what you are describing but a step in that...

The new MRP Lift damper is sold in several different tunes for different weight ranges. Not quite what you are describing but a step in that direction. 

Would be good to see some reviews of this new damper. Hopefully it's a viable option. 

There are quite a few user reviews now in this MTBR thread (that links to page three, there are nine more pages of reviews and discussion after).

Simonetti has one for review. We have them out for review at a number of other outlets too.

9
6/15/2024 10:59am
You don't need different tunes, just use different weight oils. The solution already exists, I know some of the elite XC people use an oil that's...

You don't need different tunes, just use different weight oils. The solution already exists, I know some of the elite XC people use an oil that's called almost water (I can't remember it's exact name, it's 2.5WT from memory? Someone will know what I mean). 

It's much easier to sell the same product, and just swap oils, that way you can onsell it, or gain weight, or lose weight, and it's like $2 of fluids instead of labour on rebuilding your stack. 

HexonJuan wrote:
Like Water from Red Line Oil. Haven't run it in a fork or rear shock, but apparently Fox says that's a big no, per a pal...

Like Water from Red Line Oil. Haven't run it in a fork or rear shock, but apparently Fox says that's a big no, per a pal who runs a service center. I'm using it in my fat bike's dropper and brakes. Works a treat in the dropper, giving great return speed at 10deg F and running lower pressure in the cartridge. Brakes are unphased so far, but I'll have to wait n see how it handles summer heat before I make a firm value call on it for that use.

That's the one! I knew somebody here would know it. 

I know people who have used it for kids shocks and super lightweights. 

I understand why Fox and Rockshox use the same oil, but it would be very beneficial IMO if they ship with different weights and just have a sticker on the product showing what current oil is in it for servicing. 

 

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1
6/15/2024 1:26pm

Changing Oil WT isnt quite as simple as 'just changing it and seeing results' RC cars use this method and its a damn hassle,they also use silicone oil with ratings often as high as 800cst(60wt) - 

Shim stack vs WT isnt a linear scale and thats why changing the shim stack is often the preferred method.

Brands should offer a tuning table with shims and you can purchase a poor mans vacuum syringe so we can easily access and tune the shock. - I believe DVO stuff is easily accessible to do yourself.

I was riding in near 30c heat earlier this year to now in 0-9c and both my fork/shock feel harsher, but then again nothing feels as good as a fresh service regardless.

4
1llumA
Posts
213
Joined
3/11/2020
Location
CA
6/15/2024 2:47pm
Ernst_ wrote:
https://www.trekbikes.com/de/de_DE/treks-biggest-launch/?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=gas_social&utm_campaign=treks_biggest_launch&utm_content=video&fbclid=IwAR2gExhp5PkB9x_uV8-2Lj4cGF0mSu0tIRA3n-waCPJrPoOMpfDoVOgCvDQ_aem_MzaxQQh6vD-lcnBDmgWiqg anyone know whats that all about?

New Madone road bike in time for the Tour de France. It's would be the 8th gen of the Madone hence the promo picture you see there.

5
haen
Posts
105
Joined
12/3/2020
Location
CA US
6/15/2024 3:59pm
Changing Oil WT isnt quite as simple as 'just changing it and seeing results' RC cars use this method and its a damn hassle,they also use...

Changing Oil WT isnt quite as simple as 'just changing it and seeing results' RC cars use this method and its a damn hassle,they also use silicone oil with ratings often as high as 800cst(60wt) - 

Shim stack vs WT isnt a linear scale and thats why changing the shim stack is often the preferred method.

Brands should offer a tuning table with shims and you can purchase a poor mans vacuum syringe so we can easily access and tune the shock. - I believe DVO stuff is easily accessible to do yourself.

I was riding in near 30c heat earlier this year to now in 0-9c and both my fork/shock feel harsher, but then again nothing feels as good as a fresh service regardless.

Formula’s CTS system seems like a great solution. 
 

5
Primoz
Posts
4549
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
SI
6/15/2024 9:16pm

It's usually called a tuned mass damper. And therein lies the issue, in the tuned part. They usually have to be tuned for a certain frequency to achieve an effect, otherwise it won't do anything or even make things worse.

6
krabo83
Posts
718
Joined
12/26/2017
Location
AT
6/15/2024 10:17pm Edited Date/Time 6/15/2024 10:18pm
Ernst_ wrote:
https://www.trekbikes.com/de/de_DE/treks-biggest-launch/?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=gas_social&utm_campaign=treks_biggest_launch&utm_content=video&fbclid=IwAR2gExhp5PkB9x_uV8-2Lj4cGF0mSu0tIRA3n-waCPJrPoOMpfDoVOgCvDQ_aem_MzaxQQh6vD-lcnBDmgWiqg anyone know whats that all about?

my guess is a new road bike, new trek madone was seen a couple weeks ago on world tour teams.

 

edit: someone was faster Smile

gibbon
Posts
463
Joined
3/7/2019
Location
wales GB
6/16/2024 3:38am
krabo83 wrote:

my guess is a new road bike, new trek madone was seen a couple weeks ago on world tour teams.

 

edit: someone was faster Smile

Combining the Madone and Emonda into one bike.Probably to be called Nomade or something equally stupid (Trek road bikes use the same letters)

4
TEAMROBOT
Posts
1384
Joined
9/2/2009
Location
Los Angeles, CA US
6/16/2024 6:45am
gibbon wrote:

Combining the Madone and Emonda into one bike.Probably to be called Nomade or something equally stupid (Trek road bikes use the same letters)

Trek Adomen. Trek Enomad. Trek Donema. Trek Amonde.

9
jeff.brines
Posts
1225
Joined
8/29/2010
Location
Grand Junction, CO US
6/16/2024 7:03am
dolface wrote:
LBS just posted this, new to me, anyone else heard of it? (The MTB version; I know about the moto kind)

LBS just posted this, new to me, anyone else heard of it? (The MTB version; I know about the moto kind)

image-20240612180935-1

Great post. This is something I've wanted to do for a long time. 

Here are the big questions.

1) Rim lock: How are you actually ensuring the bead doesn't pop off? In moto you use a rim lock (or two!). Did they create such a thing for a mountain bike? 

2) Weight: Nuetech bibs are heavy AF for moto. Really curious how they made them light enough to be a realistic substitute for mtb.

3) Feel: This will be a huge challenge. While I feel strongly we could make a bib that feels great for commuting, casual noodling around etc, to tune a bib to "feel" like 20, 25 or 30 psi is going to be really hard. 

4
stoic_machine
Posts
194
Joined
12/27/2018
Location
Dildo, Newfoundland CA
6/16/2024 7:25am
gibbon wrote:

Combining the Madone and Emonda into one bike.Probably to be called Nomade or something equally stupid (Trek road bikes use the same letters)

TEAMROBOT wrote:

Trek Adomen. Trek Enomad. Trek Donema. Trek Amonde.

Trek Medona... That what us boys at the shop want it to be named but noooo they just left it as the Madone. Missed opportunity lol good looking bike though. 

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