Is someone pulling your leg or are you pulling ours?
Edit: Not a lot surprises me any more, but RS internals? That seems pretty out there...
Is someone pulling your leg or are you pulling ours?
Edit: Not a lot surprises me any more, but RS internals? That seems pretty out there, especially considering the general praise for Öhlins's forks. Which internals specifically, though?
It’s a rumor for sure…so there’s that. It came from a pretty knowledgeable source. Same weekend I heard the rumor, I personally saw the demo prototype...
It’s a rumor for sure…so there’s that. It came from a pretty knowledgeable source. Same weekend I heard the rumor, I personally saw the demo prototype (whatever it’s being called), so I know one of the protos had been around the area…I’m not sure who was riding it.
Interesting analysis on compliance vs precision. For trail and enduro applications, I'm convinced most aluminum and carbon frames are too stiff. I'd wager that most DH bikes are too stiff for us mere mortals, but I've never ridden a DH bike marketed as "compliant".
Part of me wonders if the longer axle to crown of 200mm travel DH forks give the same practical compliance as a stiffer enduro/trail frame despite being stiffer from an absolute perspective. Or it could be that world cup caliber racers are riding so much faster/harder that a stiffer chassis ends up flexing the same distance as when I ride, going a lot slower. Or it could just be that professionals require handling precision (stiffness) that I can't even feel given my mortal riding skills.
Was it reported earlier this year the Maxxis would be making the Minion DHR in 2.5… or did I imagine it? trying to search for info...
Was it reported earlier this year the Maxxis would be making the Minion DHR in 2.5… or did I imagine it? trying to search for info but can’t find anything
I've been checking, they are listed at Universal but not available yet, Exo+ and up. Nothing on the Maxxis site yet and no luck hunting for...
I've been checking, they are listed at Universal but not available yet, Exo+ and up. Nothing on the Maxxis site yet and no luck hunting for clues of a Short Roller 3. Obligatory this belongs in the tire specific thread...
They are coming. We were hoping to have them in stock before the season got rolling, but there were some delays.
Oh its working now.
Interesting analysis on compliance vs precision. For trail and enduro applications, I'm convinced most aluminum and carbon frames are too stiff. I'd...
Oh its working now.
Interesting analysis on compliance vs precision. For trail and enduro applications, I'm convinced most aluminum and carbon frames are too stiff. I'd wager that most DH bikes are too stiff for us mere mortals, but I've never ridden a DH bike marketed as "compliant".
Part of me wonders if the longer axle to crown of 200mm travel DH forks give the same practical compliance as a stiffer enduro/trail frame despite being stiffer from an absolute perspective. Or it could be that world cup caliber racers are riding so much faster/harder that a stiffer chassis ends up flexing the same distance as when I ride, going a lot slower. Or it could just be that professionals require handling precision (stiffness) that I can't even feel given my mortal riding skills.
I'd say you're right about flex relative to skill/speed on a DH bike. The pros run their suspension WAY stiffer than I would, so I imagine frame flex would also need be different.
I'd say you're right about flex relative to skill/speed on a DH bike. The pros run their suspension WAY stiffer than I would, so I imagine...
I'd say you're right about flex relative to skill/speed on a DH bike. The pros run their suspension WAY stiffer than I would, so I imagine frame flex would also need be different.
Ya, I've always been curious if pros run really harsh compression or if they run super high pressures/springs, since that would effect sag. For the rear they typically run custom links to get insane progression, but I wonder about forks. I suppose since RS and Fox both run air springs, they just cram all the tokens in there.
I'd say you're right about flex relative to skill/speed on a DH bike. The pros run their suspension WAY stiffer than I would, so I imagine...
I'd say you're right about flex relative to skill/speed on a DH bike. The pros run their suspension WAY stiffer than I would, so I imagine frame flex would also need be different.
Ya, I've always been curious if pros run really harsh compression or if they run super high pressures/springs, since that would effect sag. For the rear...
Ya, I've always been curious if pros run really harsh compression or if they run super high pressures/springs, since that would effect sag. For the rear they typically run custom links to get insane progression, but I wonder about forks. I suppose since RS and Fox both run air springs, they just cram all the tokens in there.
For what it's worth, I bought Dean Lucas' 2014 worlds Devinci Wilson off him, had a spring converted Boxxer world cup (NSR racing), Factory linkage part and a custom valved Vivid coil. I have approx 20kg on Dean and it was way too soft for me, I think they would run in the 15% sag range up front and 20-25% up back if I was to guess.
This was before bikes had good cable management, chainstay protectors etc, but that bike amazed me with how quiet a bike can be, that factory velcro treatment!
Fork stiffness- I do think that the longer DH forks flex a bit more because of the length and as you lower them in the clamps that can offer more comfort, but to me if I rode a Boxxer (38) or Ohlins (38) it still more comfortable than a fox 40 in the flex character.
Frame Flex- I 100% agree that the pros are pushing the frames harder so a bike that I might feel is rigid, the pro could think that is on the edge of soft. I’ve rode a frameworks a few times and compared to other bikes, it’s on the edge of being rigid for me, so I can imagine if Neko at his size and speed thinks it’s right, I can’t totally imagine that. Where as I love the flex of a steel frame that’s similar to his, but him and Asa think it’s too soft.
Shaft speeds- I’ve done a bunch of suspension data and talked with a few of the technicians who test with the pros and they say comp and Reb speeds are similar, it’s more spring rate that will change. Your body can only handle so much impact or frequency if your pro or amateur.
Fork stiffness- I do think that the longer DH forks flex a bit more because of the length and as you lower them in the clamps...
Fork stiffness- I do think that the longer DH forks flex a bit more because of the length and as you lower them in the clamps that can offer more comfort, but to me if I rode a Boxxer (38) or Ohlins (38) it still more comfortable than a fox 40 in the flex character.
Frame Flex- I 100% agree that the pros are pushing the frames harder so a bike that I might feel is rigid, the pro could think that is on the edge of soft. I’ve rode a frameworks a few times and compared to other bikes, it’s on the edge of being rigid for me, so I can imagine if Neko at his size and speed thinks it’s right, I can’t totally imagine that. Where as I love the flex of a steel frame that’s similar to his, but him and Asa think it’s too soft.
Shaft speeds- I’ve done a bunch of suspension data and talked with a few of the technicians who test with the pros and they say comp and Reb speeds are similar, it’s more spring rate that will change. Your body can only handle so much impact or frequency if your pro or amateur.
Axle to Crown on dual crown forks is effectively lower compared to single crown forks at same travel. Or vice versa, a 38 mm single crown fork is about as tall as a 200 mm dual crown fork. And the two crowns do add quite a bit of stiffness to it. There might be a thread about it on the forums
Fork stiffness- I do think that the longer DH forks flex a bit more because of the length and as you lower them in the clamps...
Fork stiffness- I do think that the longer DH forks flex a bit more because of the length and as you lower them in the clamps that can offer more comfort, but to me if I rode a Boxxer (38) or Ohlins (38) it still more comfortable than a fox 40 in the flex character.
Frame Flex- I 100% agree that the pros are pushing the frames harder so a bike that I might feel is rigid, the pro could think that is on the edge of soft. I’ve rode a frameworks a few times and compared to other bikes, it’s on the edge of being rigid for me, so I can imagine if Neko at his size and speed thinks it’s right, I can’t totally imagine that. Where as I love the flex of a steel frame that’s similar to his, but him and Asa think it’s too soft.
Shaft speeds- I’ve done a bunch of suspension data and talked with a few of the technicians who test with the pros and they say comp and Reb speeds are similar, it’s more spring rate that will change. Your body can only handle so much impact or frequency if your pro or amateur.
Axle to Crown on dual crown forks is effectively lower compared to single crown forks at same travel. Or vice versa, a 38 mm single crown...
Axle to Crown on dual crown forks is effectively lower compared to single crown forks at same travel. Or vice versa, a 38 mm single crown fork is about as tall as a 200 mm dual crown fork. And the two crowns do add quite a bit of stiffness to it. There might be a thread about it on the forums
True! So maybe a 36mm Boxxer dual crown would feel closer to a 38 single crown like a fox or Zeb. But then you have the lowers construction that add or reduce stiffness.
Don't know the exact values, it's all in the thread. The title is something along the lines of How stiff are dual crown forks. I opened the thread, so I guess you could find it through my profile.
Axle to Crown on dual crown forks is effectively lower compared to single crown forks at same travel. Or vice versa, a 38 mm single crown...
Axle to Crown on dual crown forks is effectively lower compared to single crown forks at same travel. Or vice versa, a 38 mm single crown fork is about as tall as a 200 mm dual crown fork. And the two crowns do add quite a bit of stiffness to it. There might be a thread about it on the forums
Yes, but few people run more than 170mm single crown, and no one runs less than 200mm dual crown. Also, the stiffness of the dual crown vs single means that even more flex is transferred to the frame.
Axle to Crown on dual crown forks is effectively lower compared to single crown forks at same travel. Or vice versa, a 38 mm single crown...
Axle to Crown on dual crown forks is effectively lower compared to single crown forks at same travel. Or vice versa, a 38 mm single crown fork is about as tall as a 200 mm dual crown fork. And the two crowns do add quite a bit of stiffness to it. There might be a thread about it on the forums
Yes, but few people run more than 170mm single crown, and no one runs less than 200mm dual crown. Also, the stiffness of the dual crown...
Yes, but few people run more than 170mm single crown, and no one runs less than 200mm dual crown. Also, the stiffness of the dual crown vs single means that even more flex is transferred to the frame.
Quite a few people run 180 and 190 dual crowns on trail bikes.
LBS just posted this, new to me, anyone else heard of it? (The MTB version; I know about the moto kind)
LBS just posted this, new to me, anyone else heard of it? (The MTB version; I know about the moto kind)
I’ve heard of a few guys in So Cal testing them. They could have potential if they can get the feel of the “air pressure” to feel normal. I believe they are super light weight.
rockshox stuff from our end
article - https://www.vitalmtb.com/news/press-release/rockshox-announces-charger-3-1-damper-vivid-coil-and-updates-super-deluxe
How does less low speed compression damping increase traction? Throughout the press release it’s written like that’s a known thing. How do we know that, please?
I’ve always understood less damping = more tire traction at the cost of chassis control, bottoming out etc.
always within reason of course- a pogo stick will bounce off the ground and lose traction. The race tech suspension bible had some good graphic representation of that.
Makes sense. If I was at that level, I would have a fist full of ideal setups for changing courses/conditions.
Update on steel Frameworks:
https://www.instagram.com/p/C8Eq5WRtOMf/
EDIT: I can't get the embed to work
Oh its working now.
Interesting analysis on compliance vs precision. For trail and enduro applications, I'm convinced most aluminum and carbon frames are too stiff. I'd wager that most DH bikes are too stiff for us mere mortals, but I've never ridden a DH bike marketed as "compliant".
Part of me wonders if the longer axle to crown of 200mm travel DH forks give the same practical compliance as a stiffer enduro/trail frame despite being stiffer from an absolute perspective. Or it could be that world cup caliber racers are riding so much faster/harder that a stiffer chassis ends up flexing the same distance as when I ride, going a lot slower. Or it could just be that professionals require handling precision (stiffness) that I can't even feel given my mortal riding skills.
They are coming. We were hoping to have them in stock before the season got rolling, but there were some delays.
I'd say you're right about flex relative to skill/speed on a DH bike. The pros run their suspension WAY stiffer than I would, so I imagine frame flex would also need be different.
Ya, I've always been curious if pros run really harsh compression or if they run super high pressures/springs, since that would effect sag. For the rear they typically run custom links to get insane progression, but I wonder about forks. I suppose since RS and Fox both run air springs, they just cram all the tokens in there.
For what it's worth, I bought Dean Lucas' 2014 worlds Devinci Wilson off him, had a spring converted Boxxer world cup (NSR racing), Factory linkage part and a custom valved Vivid coil. I have approx 20kg on Dean and it was way too soft for me, I think they would run in the 15% sag range up front and 20-25% up back if I was to guess.
This was before bikes had good cable management, chainstay protectors etc, but that bike amazed me with how quiet a bike can be, that factory velcro treatment!
Fork stiffness- I do think that the longer DH forks flex a bit more because of the length and as you lower them in the clamps that can offer more comfort, but to me if I rode a Boxxer (38) or Ohlins (38) it still more comfortable than a fox 40 in the flex character.
Frame Flex- I 100% agree that the pros are pushing the frames harder so a bike that I might feel is rigid, the pro could think that is on the edge of soft. I’ve rode a frameworks a few times and compared to other bikes, it’s on the edge of being rigid for me, so I can imagine if Neko at his size and speed thinks it’s right, I can’t totally imagine that. Where as I love the flex of a steel frame that’s similar to his, but him and Asa think it’s too soft.
Shaft speeds- I’ve done a bunch of suspension data and talked with a few of the technicians who test with the pros and they say comp and Reb speeds are similar, it’s more spring rate that will change. Your body can only handle so much impact or frequency if your pro or amateur.
"...a 3D printed elbow for the bend..."
So that explains the appearance, it looked like they'd used steam pipe
Axle to Crown on dual crown forks is effectively lower compared to single crown forks at same travel. Or vice versa, a 38 mm single crown fork is about as tall as a 200 mm dual crown fork. And the two crowns do add quite a bit of stiffness to it. There might be a thread about it on the forums
New XC whip from Scott, or just new paint?
True! So maybe a 36mm Boxxer dual crown would feel closer to a 38 single crown like a fox or Zeb. But then you have the lowers construction that add or reduce stiffness.
I had a frame made by Prosise. Here is the 3d steel part that was used on my frame.
Don't know the exact values, it's all in the thread. The title is something along the lines of How stiff are dual crown forks. I opened the thread, so I guess you could find it through my profile.
Yes, but few people run more than 170mm single crown, and no one runs less than 200mm dual crown. Also, the stiffness of the dual crown vs single means that even more flex is transferred to the frame.
Quite a few people run 180 and 190 dual crowns on trail bikes.
Hey look, a whole thread about fork stiffness! https://www.vitalmtb.com/forums/The-Hub,2/How-stiff-are-dual-crown-fork…
that thread is about fork stiffness, not how axle to crown length affects given frame designs.
So maybe derail that thread instead of this one?
LBS just posted this, new to me, anyone else heard of it? (The MTB version; I know about the moto kind)
I’ve heard of a few guys in So Cal testing them. They could have potential if they can get the feel of the “air pressure” to feel normal. I believe they are super light weight.
New ZEB is gonna arrive TODAY lads.
Let’s hope the new charger 3.1 is actually an upgrade from the 2.1 unlike the 3
https://nsmb.com/articles/2025-rockshox-vivid-coil-and-zeb-ultimate-for…
It’s here and it’s red, Zeb‘s not dead
An upgrade kit is actually available for Charger 3 dampers.
It's great they give you the option to 'uprade' the damper instead of having to buy a whole new damper.
This a massive win from them. If only the drive train side of SRAM approached upgrades/replacement parts with the same process as the suspension side.
Also more damping! About time, still should be more
rockshox stuff from our end
article - https://www.vitalmtb.com/news/press-release/rockshox-announces-charger-…
How does less low speed compression damping increase traction? Throughout the press release it’s written like that’s a known thing. How do we know that, please?
I’ve always understood less damping = more tire traction at the cost of chassis control, bottoming out etc.
always within reason of course- a pogo stick will bounce off the ground and lose traction. The race tech suspension bible had some good graphic representation of that.