I was under impression Weagle patented the attributes of his system (ar/as/pk/lr) rather than the specific layout. This may be different for dw6 and Orion.
I can't figure out how to embed but this is a neat bike to come across my Instagram feeds. I'd be curious to see the full thing, and how it's different from DW6
This looks cool, but the "It slightly isolates the axle path from the anti-squat valve resulting in a stronger pedal platform with less pedal kickback" sounds like BS. The only way to truly decouple anti squat from the axle path is with something that alters the chain tension, like an idler pulley
I was under impression Weagle patented the attributes of his system (ar/as/pk/lr) rather than the specific layout. This may be different for dw6 and Orion.
A good example from the DW patent would be the dependent claim:
"4. The compressible linkage suspension system according to claim 1, wherein said the tube of said seat is located behind a damper unit of said suspension system."
You instantly differentiate yourself from this if you design a frame with a shock tunnel since the seat tube is no longer behind the damper.
Another odd bit from it is:
"7. The compressible linkage suspension system according to claim 1, wherein said links are located on the side of said frame member."
I bet someone could have placed links between the frame similar to a SC frame and said the links are no longer on the side of the frame so it's now different. All in all, it was a pretty broad patent and I wouldn't be surprised if there were things that violated it that were never pursued. It pretty much patented all four bar bikes with decreasing anti squat throughout travel.
The DW6 patent likely has some things related to kinematics but likely also has things defining the physical layout. If it were to have something saying "A rear frame member connected to a link wherein the connection between the link and rear frame member is located above the connection between the link and forward frame member", then flipping a link gets you out of it. If anyone has a link to that patent please share. I'm curious what all is included.
CNC vs. tubes and what's stiffer is a bit more nuanced than just CNC vs. tubes and their diameter. Cross section shape plays a big role. Material thickness and material choice also play a big role. Heck, material orientation matters when it comes to carbon fibre.
True about open sections and bending and I beams. I beams are practical to build upon (flat surfaces) and easy to manufacture though, that's why they are a thing, they are not as good in torsion where any enclosed shape will be better. That and buckling, enclosed shapes resist that better than open sections.
True galvanic corrosion is a problem between aluminium and carbon, but like I said, should be fine for a weekend or two.
what do we reckon those Fox sensors are doing on the Frameworks bikes?
Pretty much guaranteed to be an accelerometer/IMU unit. I have similar units on DAQs and you can see how the acceleration spikes are precursors to peak shaft speeds.
If the damper adjustment is done by a fast responding solenoid you could run the damper more open in the base setting and pile on HSC during very high impacts.
If you are using multi-axis accelerometer gyros you might also be able to play a bit with compression during high speed corners.
Getting predictability out of these systems can be challenging so I suspect whatever logic is used is probably on the conservative side to avoid disrupting the rider too much.
I doubt it has 'real time' damping adjustments. More likely just over rides the firm/lockout mode when you hit a big enough bump.
This is what they tried with the V1 Live Valve and it was generally not well received for gravity riding. There are no technical obstacles to a more refined system. Notably they now have the axle sensors which is a much better input to use than relying on shock sensors.
Itd be interesting to know who was running what tires. A few top riders going down is strange. Dak in particular is used to greasy southeast...
Itd be interesting to know who was running what tires. A few top riders going down is strange. Dak in particular is used to greasy southeast tracks.
Dak tried to cut the one corner on an otherwise dry track that had a puddle of greasy mud on the inside...
I wonder if this was a sneaky line he wasn't showing in practice and only attempted in finals? There didn't seem to be any tyre marks through the inside.
Dak tried to cut the one corner on an otherwise dry track that had a puddle of greasy mud on the inside...
I wonder if this...
Dak tried to cut the one corner on an otherwise dry track that had a puddle of greasy mud on the inside...
I wonder if this was a sneaky line he wasn't showing in practice and only attempted in finals? There didn't seem to be any tyre marks through the inside.
Was wondering about this. He was fast all weekend, some of those runs were surely greasy... his setup is working for him. Bummer about the crash in finals, awesome to see Ronan win and would've been insane to see Dak win/podium with him.
Dak tried to cut the one corner on an otherwise dry track that had a puddle of greasy mud on the inside...
I wonder if this...
Dak tried to cut the one corner on an otherwise dry track that had a puddle of greasy mud on the inside...
I wonder if this was a sneaky line he wasn't showing in practice and only attempted in finals? There didn't seem to be any tyre marks through the inside.
Yeah, looked like he was holding onto that line until finals and probably assumed it would be dry as alot of the track was drying up but that one spot looked oddly greasy compared to the surrounding dirt.
What if the buttons don't do anything but the engineers tell Loic and Finn they do?
"Okay big guy, you can choose between boost-blaster setting, super...
What if the buttons don't do anything but the engineers tell Loic and Finn they do?
"Okay big guy, you can choose between boost-blaster setting, super boost-blaster setting, or ultra boost-blaster setting. Now go fast!"
"press this button if you want tacos at the finish line"
Yeah, looked like he was holding onto that line until finals and probably assumed it would be dry as alot of the track was drying up...
Yeah, looked like he was holding onto that line until finals and probably assumed it would be dry as alot of the track was drying up but that one spot looked oddly greasy compared to the surrounding dirt.
At 29 seconds, sets up high right, cuts inside the rut left, foot out.
Good eye. It's interesting because the same inside line that was slick and muddy in finals was the only dry section of the same section of the turn in his helmet cam from Quali's. Like the inside line got wet and everything else dried out. It was definitely hooking up in quali's based on his helmet cam.
I always thought the 05 boxxer world Cup was one of the best looking forks with the chrome stanchions.
Did not enjoy twisting those Boxxer and having a semi-rigid brand new unscratched fork at Mt. Snow after a single run w/ no wrecks but being accused of destroying them by the main man of the company himself.
SRAM sent the declination letter for our team to my house and I wasn't the one who sent in our proposal.
Got treated like the "Semi-Pro" I was. Still bitter.
Pretty sure the SRAM big wig still hates me. He'd probably find a way to confiscate the fork off my DH bike right now if he knew I run a Boxxer.
Did not enjoy twisting those Boxxer and having a semi-rigid brand new unscratched fork at Mt. Snow after a single run w/ no wrecks but being...
Did not enjoy twisting those Boxxer and having a semi-rigid brand new unscratched fork at Mt. Snow after a single run w/ no wrecks but being accused of destroying them by the main man of the company himself.
SRAM sent the declination letter for our team to my house and I wasn't the one who sent in our proposal.
Got treated like the "Semi-Pro" I was. Still bitter.
Pretty sure the SRAM big wig still hates me. He'd probably find a way to confiscate the fork off my DH bike right now if he knew I run a Boxxer.
At least they didn't accidentally give you the L-Turn version
I was under impression Weagle patented the attributes of his system (ar/as/pk/lr) rather than the specific layout. This may be different for dw6 and Orion.
Since we’re talking pocket machined stays and chainstay mounted short links. Behold, the future happened already, 30 years ago:
This looks cool, but the "It slightly isolates the axle path from the anti-squat valve resulting in a stronger pedal platform with less pedal kickback" sounds like BS. The only way to truly decouple anti squat from the axle path is with something that alters the chain tension, like an idler pulley
A good example from the DW patent would be the dependent claim:
"4. The compressible linkage suspension system according to claim 1, wherein said the tube of said seat is located behind a damper unit of said suspension system."
You instantly differentiate yourself from this if you design a frame with a shock tunnel since the seat tube is no longer behind the damper.
Another odd bit from it is:
"7. The compressible linkage suspension system according to claim 1, wherein said links are located on the side of said frame member."
I bet someone could have placed links between the frame similar to a SC frame and said the links are no longer on the side of the frame so it's now different. All in all, it was a pretty broad patent and I wouldn't be surprised if there were things that violated it that were never pursued. It pretty much patented all four bar bikes with decreasing anti squat throughout travel.
The DW6 patent likely has some things related to kinematics but likely also has things defining the physical layout. If it were to have something saying "A rear frame member connected to a link wherein the connection between the link and rear frame member is located above the connection between the link and forward frame member", then flipping a link gets you out of it. If anyone has a link to that patent please share. I'm curious what all is included.
Is it even patented?
CNC vs. tubes and what's stiffer is a bit more nuanced than just CNC vs. tubes and their diameter. Cross section shape plays a big role. Material thickness and material choice also play a big role. Heck, material orientation matters when it comes to carbon fibre.
True about open sections and bending and I beams. I beams are practical to build upon (flat surfaces) and easy to manufacture though, that's why they are a thing, they are not as good in torsion where any enclosed shape will be better. That and buckling, enclosed shapes resist that better than open sections.
True galvanic corrosion is a problem between aluminium and carbon, but like I said, should be fine for a weekend or two.
what do we reckon those Fox sensors are doing on the Frameworks bikes?
Sensing how fuckin fast Asa's going so they know how much to turn everything down for us mere mortals
Pretty much guaranteed to be an accelerometer/IMU unit. I have similar units on DAQs and you can see how the acceleration spikes are precursors to peak shaft speeds.
If the damper adjustment is done by a fast responding solenoid you could run the damper more open in the base setting and pile on HSC during very high impacts.
If you are using multi-axis accelerometer gyros you might also be able to play a bit with compression during high speed corners.
Getting predictability out of these systems can be challenging so I suspect whatever logic is used is probably on the conservative side to avoid disrupting the rider too much.
I doubt it has 'real time' damping adjustments. More likely just over rides the firm/lockout mode when you hit a big enough bump.
https://www.instagram.com/p/C7I8ymPNH2u/
TJ from Ohlins Racing confirms that the secret rear shock on Bruni's proto DH bike is using a electronic system.
This is what they tried with the V1 Live Valve and it was generally not well received for gravity riding. There are no technical obstacles to a more refined system. Notably they now have the axle sensors which is a much better input to use than relying on shock sensors.
Ronan Dunne mentioned in a post-race interview with Sven Martin that he ran the new Maxxis "High Roller 3" on the front for his winning run.
lawlor-slowmo-super-investigation-for-nerds video from poland
I wonder if Maxxis is also using a new compound in addition to a new tread pattern.
Itd be interesting to know who was running what tires. A few top riders going down is strange. Dak in particular is used to greasy southeast tracks.
I'm no world cup rider, but I don't think those bars could have helped in that situation unfortunately
edit: didn’t know this was so divisive
Was on during the woods but off by the finish line
Dak tried to cut the one corner on an otherwise dry track that had a puddle of greasy mud on the inside...
I wonder if this was a sneaky line he wasn't showing in practice and only attempted in finals? There didn't seem to be any tyre marks through the inside.
Was wondering about this. He was fast all weekend, some of those runs were surely greasy... his setup is working for him. Bummer about the crash in finals, awesome to see Ronan win and would've been insane to see Dak win/podium with him.
Yeah, looked like he was holding onto that line until finals and probably assumed it would be dry as alot of the track was drying up but that one spot looked oddly greasy compared to the surrounding dirt.
Yes, I did take a pic of of my screen because they've disabled screenshots and I haven't figured out how to get around it (yet).
The white stuff is light reflecting off water/mud
"press this button if you want tacos at the finish line"
Dak might need higher bars to get the weight off the front in order to keep it upright
I think he was on it in his qualifying too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZN-_oGNBfQ
At 29 seconds, sets up high right, cuts inside the rut left, foot out.
Where did you place in the race?
Was a joke... What Dak is doing with his bars along with his unique line choice is heroic. I can only salute the man
Good eye. It's interesting because the same inside line that was slick and muddy in finals was the only dry section of the same section of the turn in his helmet cam from Quali's. Like the inside line got wet and everything else dried out. It was definitely hooking up in quali's based on his helmet cam.
Anybody posted this yet? Saw the serial number of one of those fox live valve shocks and entered it on the ridefox site as a joke
Did not enjoy twisting those Boxxer and having a semi-rigid brand new unscratched fork at Mt. Snow after a single run w/ no wrecks but being accused of destroying them by the main man of the company himself.
SRAM sent the declination letter for our team to my house and I wasn't the one who sent in our proposal.
Got treated like the "Semi-Pro" I was. Still bitter.
Pretty sure the SRAM big wig still hates me. He'd probably find a way to confiscate the fork off my DH bike right now if he knew I run a Boxxer.
At least they didn't accidentally give you the L-Turn version