Greg was saying he could alter Geo characteristics without affecting another, say can slacken HTA but not BB height, STA etc.... how the fark do you do that? Modular BB shell? I suppose STA doesn't mean a lot in DH but still, bold claim cotton.
Norco's whole schtick in marketing materials and in their patent application is that this unique design allows them to alter the rate of progression of the...
Norco's whole schtick in marketing materials and in their patent application is that this unique design allows them to alter the rate of progression of the leverage rate without affecting other suspension parameters. That sounds really cool, but I've looked at every photo in the PB patent article and I don't see any means in their patent for adjusting leverage rate. No flip chips, or adjustable shock mounts, or sliding mounting points, or anything.
Does anyone know how riders on the new Norco downhill bike are supposed to adjust leverage rate? Are they just talking about swapping links entirely, a la Cascade Components links? Or is there an adjustment built into the frame that my eyes aren't seeing?
Based on its orientation that will change the effective shock length, which affects BB height and where in the leverage curve the suspension operates. I'm sure the suspension setup has a lot of adjustment elsewhere, though.
Norco's whole schtick in marketing materials and in their patent application is that this unique design allows them to alter the rate of progression of the...
Norco's whole schtick in marketing materials and in their patent application is that this unique design allows them to alter the rate of progression of the leverage rate without affecting other suspension parameters. That sounds really cool, but I've looked at every photo in the PB patent article and I don't see any means in their patent for adjusting leverage rate. No flip chips, or adjustable shock mounts, or sliding mounting points, or anything.
Does anyone know how riders on the new Norco downhill bike are supposed to adjust leverage rate? Are they just talking about swapping links entirely, a la Cascade Components links? Or is there an adjustment built into the frame that my eyes aren't seeing?
The linkage itself is VERY sensitive to adjustments. They could be using a set of different upper links with a few different progression ranges. Alternatively they might have some chip inserts for that same link. I say that link specifically because the point where the dogbone connects has a big influence on the progression AND you can't see the side of it anywhere because it's hidden by the seatmast. FWIW on a factory team I would just have separate links rather than messing about with chips.
You can see an example of moving that point on the link below highlighted in grey. The two curves show an offset of 1mm forward and a little bit down. By move the point along the radial path of the dogbone there is zero impact on the geo. They get huge props for the tunability of that linkage; I can't think of a more adjustable HP layout (the Specialized bikes notably also have pretty customizable layouts). The below shows a 35% to 38% progression with that 1mm change but I am pretty confident the race bike is nowhere near that progressive.
Apple is finally ready to release their new Apple Shock for MTB! It will connect to your AppleID and use GPS to automatically adjust your damping to take you to the nearest Starbucks as quickly as possible. Only question is are you getting it in grey or black??
Apple is finally ready to release their new Apple Shock for MTB! It will connect to your AppleID and use GPS to automatically adjust your damping...
Apple is finally ready to release their new Apple Shock for MTB! It will connect to your AppleID and use GPS to automatically adjust your damping to take you to the nearest Starbucks as quickly as possible. Only question is are you getting it in grey or black??
I'm waiting for the limited edition rose gold version.
Apple is finally ready to release their new Apple Shock for MTB! It will connect to your AppleID and use GPS to automatically adjust your damping...
Apple is finally ready to release their new Apple Shock for MTB! It will connect to your AppleID and use GPS to automatically adjust your damping to take you to the nearest Starbucks as quickly as possible. Only question is are you getting it in grey or black??
Apple is finally ready to release their new Apple Shock for MTB! It will connect to your AppleID and use GPS to automatically adjust your damping...
Apple is finally ready to release their new Apple Shock for MTB! It will connect to your AppleID and use GPS to automatically adjust your damping to take you to the nearest Starbucks as quickly as possible. Only question is are you getting it in grey or black??
I hate to say this but in 10 years this will be Rockshox with Shockwiz
Apple is finally ready to release their new Apple Shock for MTB! It will connect to your AppleID and use GPS to automatically adjust your damping...
Apple is finally ready to release their new Apple Shock for MTB! It will connect to your AppleID and use GPS to automatically adjust your damping to take you to the nearest Starbucks as quickly as possible. Only question is are you getting it in grey or black??
1st gen uses a proprietary valve and shock pump. Rebound/compression damping is closed all the way once 2nd gen comes out.
Patiently waiting to see when the new Ibis Ripmo and Ripley will start seeing some leaks....maybe even a lightweight e-Ripmo?
Likely will see a lightweight E-Ripmo before a the analog bikes since e-bikes are all that's selling right now.
Ibis is a conservative company. I would guess they're not pushing hard to launch new bikes with small changes into a horrible market. Could be a while before we see new stuff. But I do expect the new bikes to have the new design language which will actually be a big help for them selling units.
I take back what i said, I couldn't tell from the original patent pick posted that the seat stay is fixed solidly to the seat tube, I thought it was attached to linkage (just has the same axle running through both parts)
Cool suspension tech, I do stand by my other comment, that its an absolute nightmare to service and maintain. Like jesus christ, there is going to be a minimum of 20 bearings in that rear end (maybe some end up being bushings)
I take back what i said, I couldn't tell from the original patent pick posted that the seat stay is fixed solidly to the seat tube...
I take back what i said, I couldn't tell from the original patent pick posted that the seat stay is fixed solidly to the seat tube, I thought it was attached to linkage (just has the same axle running through both parts)
Cool suspension tech, I do stand by my other comment, that its an absolute nightmare to service and maintain. Like jesus christ, there is going to be a minimum of 20 bearings in that rear end (maybe some end up being bushings)
I take back what i said, I couldn't tell from the original patent pick posted that the seat stay is fixed solidly to the seat tube...
I take back what i said, I couldn't tell from the original patent pick posted that the seat stay is fixed solidly to the seat tube, I thought it was attached to linkage (just has the same axle running through both parts)
Cool suspension tech, I do stand by my other comment, that its an absolute nightmare to service and maintain. Like jesus christ, there is going to be a minimum of 20 bearings in that rear end (maybe some end up being bushings)
One of my best mates works at a specialized dealer and half the time the bearings are absolutely toast and performance suffers because they can't be bothered doing it themselves (i.e owners) and its so expensive in shop to get the replaced when needed (particularly if you ride somewhere wet)
Likely will see a lightweight E-Ripmo before a the analog bikes since e-bikes are all that's selling right now.
Ibis is a conservative company. I would...
Likely will see a lightweight E-Ripmo before a the analog bikes since e-bikes are all that's selling right now.
Ibis is a conservative company. I would guess they're not pushing hard to launch new bikes with small changes into a horrible market. Could be a while before we see new stuff. But I do expect the new bikes to have the new design language which will actually be a big help for them selling units.
Dunno man, look at the Oso, hardly "conservative"...
I'd buy a V3 Ripmo tomorrow if they released it, my OG Ripmo has served me well and is still going strong. I have someone in mind who loves bikes but cant afford much who would benefit from having a nice bike.
Someone mentioned March somehwhere on this forum. Have zero interest in an E-Mo.
If this unpublished unreleased thing I saw at scott HQ is the new voltage, fuck me backwards! there is absolutely no reason to buy a ransom anymore! Things thing looks a beast!!! Yes it does have a motor but nevermind.
If this unpublished unreleased thing I saw at scott HQ is the new voltage, fuck me backwards! there is absolutely no reason to buy a ransom...
If this unpublished unreleased thing I saw at scott HQ is the new voltage, fuck me backwards! there is absolutely no reason to buy a ransom anymore! Things thing looks a beast!!! Yes it does have a motor but nevermind.
Well, are least the model's name would check out...
Although turning that legendary freeride/dirt jumping bike line into mopeds would certainly be a shame.
Likely will see a lightweight E-Ripmo before a the analog bikes since e-bikes are all that's selling right now.
Ibis is a conservative company. I would...
Likely will see a lightweight E-Ripmo before a the analog bikes since e-bikes are all that's selling right now.
Ibis is a conservative company. I would guess they're not pushing hard to launch new bikes with small changes into a horrible market. Could be a while before we see new stuff. But I do expect the new bikes to have the new design language which will actually be a big help for them selling units.
Dunno man, look at the Oso, hardly "conservative"...
I'd buy a V3 Ripmo tomorrow if they released it, my OG Ripmo has served me well and...
Dunno man, look at the Oso, hardly "conservative"...
I'd buy a V3 Ripmo tomorrow if they released it, my OG Ripmo has served me well and is still going strong. I have someone in mind who loves bikes but cant afford much who would benefit from having a nice bike.
Someone mentioned March somehwhere on this forum. Have zero interest in an E-Mo.
They will release the new AF’s in the next week or two at most. I haz seen the email.
Only been a Few photos of that new YT Tues prototype kicking around but that rear triangle does look redesigned and kinda looks more on an angle and got me thinking... Is there a sneaky mid/high pivot lurking under there? Could a similiar front triangle look be staying as it still fits within the architecture of all their other bikes just with a Modified back end more or less.
I made some lines to demonstrate my thoughts... Don't judge my art haha.
Only been a Few photos of that new YT Tues prototype kicking around but that rear triangle does look redesigned and kinda looks more on an...
Only been a Few photos of that new YT Tues prototype kicking around but that rear triangle does look redesigned and kinda looks more on an angle and got me thinking... Is there a sneaky mid/high pivot lurking under there? Could a similiar front triangle look be staying as it still fits within the architecture of all their other bikes just with a Modified back end more or less.
I made some lines to demonstrate my thoughts... Don't judge my art haha.
Perhaps... but at least on this one, no idler and the linkage is visible under there.
Only been a Few photos of that new YT Tues prototype kicking around but that rear triangle does look redesigned and kinda looks more on an...
Only been a Few photos of that new YT Tues prototype kicking around but that rear triangle does look redesigned and kinda looks more on an angle and got me thinking... Is there a sneaky mid/high pivot lurking under there? Could a similiar front triangle look be staying as it still fits within the architecture of all their other bikes just with a Modified back end more or less.
I made some lines to demonstrate my thoughts... Don't judge my art haha.
If this unpublished unreleased thing I saw at scott HQ is the new voltage, fuck me backwards! there is absolutely no reason to buy a ransom...
If this unpublished unreleased thing I saw at scott HQ is the new voltage, fuck me backwards! there is absolutely no reason to buy a ransom anymore! Things thing looks a beast!!! Yes it does have a motor but nevermind.
Only been a Few photos of that new YT Tues prototype kicking around but that rear triangle does look redesigned and kinda looks more on an...
Only been a Few photos of that new YT Tues prototype kicking around but that rear triangle does look redesigned and kinda looks more on an angle and got me thinking... Is there a sneaky mid/high pivot lurking under there? Could a similiar front triangle look be staying as it still fits within the architecture of all their other bikes just with a Modified back end more or less.
I made some lines to demonstrate my thoughts... Don't judge my art haha.
Perhaps... but at least on this one, no idler and the linkage is visible under there.
Perhaps... but at least on this one, no idler and the linkage is visible under there.
Wasn’t the Frameworks of Neko Mullaly using an O-chain cause it’s something of a mid high-pivot, but without an idler? The covered Tues proto looks awfully similar to the current one, only significant change i could think of watching the photos is going the Frameworks’ route!
Only been a Few photos of that new YT Tues prototype kicking around but that rear triangle does look redesigned and kinda looks more on an...
Only been a Few photos of that new YT Tues prototype kicking around but that rear triangle does look redesigned and kinda looks more on an angle and got me thinking... Is there a sneaky mid/high pivot lurking under there? Could a similiar front triangle look be staying as it still fits within the architecture of all their other bikes just with a Modified back end more or less.
I made some lines to demonstrate my thoughts... Don't judge my art haha.
Wasn’t the Frameworks of Neko Mullaly using an O-chain cause it’s something of a mid high-pivot, but without an idler? The covered Tues proto looks awfully...
Wasn’t the Frameworks of Neko Mullaly using an O-chain cause it’s something of a mid high-pivot, but without an idler? The covered Tues proto looks awfully similar to the current one, only significant change i could think of watching the photos is going the Frameworks’ route!
Many bikes have 10 degrees or more of pedal kick. I believe Neko made his 12 degrees which is max the Ochain can handle. There’s pros and cons to idler and ochain.
Greg was saying he could alter Geo characteristics without affecting another, say can slacken HTA but not BB height, STA etc.... how the fark do you...
Greg was saying he could alter Geo characteristics without affecting another, say can slacken HTA but not BB height, STA etc.... how the fark do you do that? Modular BB shell? I suppose STA doesn't mean a lot in DH but still, bold claim cotton.
It’s curious how Greg (Norco, really) and Neko are saying completely different things. Neko spends two years developing a race bike and concludes you can’t adjust anything independently, every change will affect something else. And complexity breeds its own challenges with marginal performance improvement.
Norco heads in the exact opposite direction, highly complex suspension with claims of independent adjustability. Making those changes in isolation would be so time consuming. To slacken the head angle and keep bb height the same you’ve have to switch out flip chips for both. Changing HA alters your front center, unless you move the BB - which would then change the rear center. According to Neko, any COG changes affect suspension and if you can’t trust Neko, who can you trust?
on a personal level, bikes already require so much maintenance I can’t see buying something complicated for a marginal performance benefit I’m not talented enough to reap. As it stands my bikes need a couple full tear downs and rebuilds a year, which is like a half day job that would cost me $500 to have a shop do it all. Heaven forbid you’ve got headset routing.or more than 4 pivots.
It’s curious how Greg (Norco, really) and Neko are saying completely different things. Neko spends two years developing a race bike and concludes you can’t adjust...
It’s curious how Greg (Norco, really) and Neko are saying completely different things. Neko spends two years developing a race bike and concludes you can’t adjust anything independently, every change will affect something else. And complexity breeds its own challenges with marginal performance improvement.
Norco heads in the exact opposite direction, highly complex suspension with claims of independent adjustability. Making those changes in isolation would be so time consuming. To slacken the head angle and keep bb height the same you’ve have to switch out flip chips for both. Changing HA alters your front center, unless you move the BB - which would then change the rear center. According to Neko, any COG changes affect suspension and if you can’t trust Neko, who can you trust?
on a personal level, bikes already require so much maintenance I can’t see buying something complicated for a marginal performance benefit I’m not talented enough to reap. As it stands my bikes need a couple full tear downs and rebuilds a year, which is like a half day job that would cost me $500 to have a shop do it all. Heaven forbid you’ve got headset routing.or more than 4 pivots.
Norco is bringing a lot of engineering firepower into the design of their new DH rig. There’s a ton of adjustability built in, and that level of maintenance is common, if not expected, at the World Cup level. If this bike sees commercial release, it’ll likely be dumbed down for the average consumer with limited adjustment.
Neko is a smart guy, but he’s not an engineer. He’s intentionally built his bike to be simple and behave the way he likes.
Greg was saying he could alter Geo characteristics without affecting another, say can slacken HTA but not BB height, STA etc.... how the fark do you do that? Modular BB shell? I suppose STA doesn't mean a lot in DH but still, bold claim cotton.
Based on its orientation that will change the effective shock length, which affects BB height and where in the leverage curve the suspension operates. I'm sure the suspension setup has a lot of adjustment elsewhere, though.
The linkage itself is VERY sensitive to adjustments. They could be using a set of different upper links with a few different progression ranges. Alternatively they might have some chip inserts for that same link. I say that link specifically because the point where the dogbone connects has a big influence on the progression AND you can't see the side of it anywhere because it's hidden by the seatmast. FWIW on a factory team I would just have separate links rather than messing about with chips.
You can see an example of moving that point on the link below highlighted in grey. The two curves show an offset of 1mm forward and a little bit down. By move the point along the radial path of the dogbone there is zero impact on the geo. They get huge props for the tunability of that linkage; I can't think of a more adjustable HP layout (the Specialized bikes notably also have pretty customizable layouts). The below shows a 35% to 38% progression with that 1mm change but I am pretty confident the race bike is nowhere near that progressive.
Behold: a mirror
Apple is finally ready to release their new Apple Shock for MTB! It will connect to your AppleID and use GPS to automatically adjust your damping to take you to the nearest Starbucks as quickly as possible. Only question is are you getting it in grey or black??
Patiently waiting to see when the new Ibis Ripmo and Ripley will start seeing some leaks....maybe even a lightweight e-Ripmo?
I'm waiting for the limited edition rose gold version.
Moar pix from the Norco patent.
I'll wait for the Ti one 😂
I hate to say this but in 10 years this will be Rockshox with Shockwiz
1st gen uses a proprietary valve and shock pump. Rebound/compression damping is closed all the way once 2nd gen comes out.
2nd gen has no valve at all.
Geeezz, thats impressive! Did anyone see an axle path graph?
Likely will see a lightweight E-Ripmo before a the analog bikes since e-bikes are all that's selling right now.
Ibis is a conservative company. I would guess they're not pushing hard to launch new bikes with small changes into a horrible market. Could be a while before we see new stuff. But I do expect the new bikes to have the new design language which will actually be a big help for them selling units.
I take back what i said, I couldn't tell from the original patent pick posted that the seat stay is fixed solidly to the seat tube, I thought it was attached to linkage (just has the same axle running through both parts)
Cool suspension tech, I do stand by my other comment, that its an absolute nightmare to service and maintain. Like jesus christ, there is going to be a minimum of 20 bearings in that rear end (maybe some end up being bushings)
Right up there with the Enduro.
Yeah, which is a pain the ass!
One of my best mates works at a specialized dealer and half the time the bearings are absolutely toast and performance suffers because they can't be bothered doing it themselves (i.e owners) and its so expensive in shop to get the replaced when needed (particularly if you ride somewhere wet)
Dunno man, look at the Oso, hardly "conservative"...
I'd buy a V3 Ripmo tomorrow if they released it, my OG Ripmo has served me well and is still going strong. I have someone in mind who loves bikes but cant afford much who would benefit from having a nice bike.
Someone mentioned March somehwhere on this forum. Have zero interest in an E-Mo.
If this unpublished unreleased thing I saw at scott HQ is the new voltage, fuck me backwards! there is absolutely no reason to buy a ransom anymore! Things thing looks a beast!!! Yes it does have a motor but nevermind.
Well, are least the model's name would check out...
Although turning that legendary freeride/dirt jumping bike line into mopeds would certainly be a shame.
They will release the new AF’s in the next week or two at most. I haz seen the email.
Only been a Few photos of that new YT Tues prototype kicking around but that rear triangle does look redesigned and kinda looks more on an angle and got me thinking... Is there a sneaky mid/high pivot lurking under there? Could a similiar front triangle look be staying as it still fits within the architecture of all their other bikes just with a Modified back end more or less.
I made some lines to demonstrate my thoughts... Don't judge my art haha.
Perhaps... but at least on this one, no idler and the linkage is visible under there.
Well that's no fun... They could ditch the O-chain if they go with my idea haha
SC Heckler and Bullitt would like word about that…
Wasn’t the Frameworks of Neko Mullaly using an O-chain cause it’s something of a mid high-pivot, but without an idler? The covered Tues proto looks awfully similar to the current one, only significant change i could think of watching the photos is going the Frameworks’ route!
Many bikes have 10 degrees or more of pedal kick. I believe Neko made his 12 degrees which is max the Ochain can handle. There’s pros and cons to idler and ochain.
It’s curious how Greg (Norco, really) and Neko are saying completely different things. Neko spends two years developing a race bike and concludes you can’t adjust anything independently, every change will affect something else. And complexity breeds its own challenges with marginal performance improvement.
Norco heads in the exact opposite direction, highly complex suspension with claims of independent adjustability. Making those changes in isolation would be so time consuming. To slacken the head angle and keep bb height the same you’ve have to switch out flip chips for both. Changing HA alters your front center, unless you move the BB - which would then change the rear center. According to Neko, any COG changes affect suspension and if you can’t trust Neko, who can you trust?
on a personal level, bikes already require so much maintenance I can’t see buying something complicated for a marginal performance benefit I’m not talented enough to reap. As it stands my bikes need a couple full tear downs and rebuilds a year, which is like a half day job that would cost me $500 to have a shop do it all. Heaven forbid you’ve got headset routing.or more than 4 pivots.
Loosedog teasing a new build. Double crown seems a bit overkill for a regular 4060LT, so might be a bigger rig to be revealed from Scor?
Norco is bringing a lot of engineering firepower into the design of their new DH rig. There’s a ton of adjustability built in, and that level of maintenance is common, if not expected, at the World Cup level. If this bike sees commercial release, it’ll likely be dumbed down for the average consumer with limited adjustment.
Neko is a smart guy, but he’s not an engineer. He’s intentionally built his bike to be simple and behave the way he likes.