Push would do themselves a favor if they made a "single overhead" shock with a climb switch at a lower price point. I think the two...
Push would do themselves a favor if they made a "single overhead" shock with a climb switch at a lower price point. I think the two sets of valving sounds good on paper but most people get confident with how one set of valving works for all types of gravity trails and end up using the other set as a climb mode anyway.
There is no fancy engineering or anything special about a Push shock really besides it just being well made and some nice CNC work. The secret sauce is in the fact that it is basically custom tuned for the bike and rider. At the end of the day, without the tuning, the RS SD and the Push are almost the same.
I do think there is scope for push to do a simpler shock that is still tuned to the rider and bike, that would be a better solution to the majority of riders. Whether Push can make that work for them financially is a different story?
I'm interested to see how their fork rides personally, THAT looks like some engineering has been put to work there!
Not gonna sit here and wax poetic about all of RS product range, but I do agree the SD Ult coil is a fabulous shock. Been...
Not gonna sit here and wax poetic about all of RS product range, but I do agree the SD Ult coil is a fabulous shock. Been absolutely bomber on my status and feels like the dials make real usable /noticeable changes
just because you have just 4 actual click to choose from doesn't make all the clicks on fox, cane creek or push useless, or not working.
Push would do themselves a favor if they made a "single overhead" shock with a climb switch at a lower price point. I think the two...
Push would do themselves a favor if they made a "single overhead" shock with a climb switch at a lower price point. I think the two sets of valving sounds good on paper but most people get confident with how one set of valving works for all types of gravity trails and end up using the other set as a climb mode anyway.
There is no fancy engineering or anything special about a Push shock really besides it just being well made and some nice CNC work. The secret...
There is no fancy engineering or anything special about a Push shock really besides it just being well made and some nice CNC work. The secret sauce is in the fact that it is basically custom tuned for the bike and rider. At the end of the day, without the tuning, the RS SD and the Push are almost the same.
I do think there is scope for push to do a simpler shock that is still tuned to the rider and bike, that would be a better solution to the majority of riders. Whether Push can make that work for them financially is a different story?
I'm interested to see how their fork rides personally, THAT looks like some engineering has been put to work there!
although they could've spend some more time on the stanchion protection, for example the one custom made by Rulezman for the intend forks are way better and more protective, curious to see how crazy expensive that fork will be tho
Maybe they’re doing a budget shock. Doesn’t have the same shock body as the 11/6. Looks like LSC only on the top of the reservoir there...
Maybe they’re doing a budget shock. Doesn’t have the same shock body as the 11/6. Looks like LSC only on the top of the reservoir there. What they need is externally adjustable HBO. The new RS SD coil for a 1/3 of the price is significantly better than any of the 11/6 I owned on several different bikes over the years.
The RS is significantly better than a Push? I agree the RS is a much better value, and for the right use case, arguably a better...
The RS is significantly better than a Push? I agree the RS is a much better value, and for the right use case, arguably a better shock. But "significantly better"? You must be riding like Loic Bruni to feel that much difference in two excellent shocks.
Ready to get flamed for not saying Rockshox is the best at everything.
Performance, price, availability, service, and even the used market. I had push on an offering v1, sb130, mullet Bronson, enduro, scout, offering v2, and SJ Evo. On all of those bikes I also tried X2, prev ver SD air, dhx and dhx2. Once the new SD coil came out I had it on a sentinel, SJ evo, and now forbidden Druid v2. Any time I get a new bike or new suspension component I take my time setting it up, different springs, and bracketing on the same trail. If I can, I bring multiple shocks to the trail and swap them in the parking lot for back to back runs. I’d take the SD ult coil for $600 delivered and spend the other $1000 on anything else.
not to derail the forum too much, but to defend my statement a little bit.
Performance, price, availability, service, and even the used market. I had push on an offering v1, sb130, mullet Bronson, enduro, scout, offering v2, and SJ Evo...
Performance, price, availability, service, and even the used market. I had push on an offering v1, sb130, mullet Bronson, enduro, scout, offering v2, and SJ Evo. On all of those bikes I also tried X2, prev ver SD air, dhx and dhx2. Once the new SD coil came out I had it on a sentinel, SJ evo, and now forbidden Druid v2. Any time I get a new bike or new suspension component I take my time setting it up, different springs, and bracketing on the same trail. If I can, I bring multiple shocks to the trail and swap them in the parking lot for back to back runs. I’d take the SD ult coil for $600 delivered and spend the other $1000 on anything else.
not to derail the forum too much, but to defend my statement a little bit.
Sure, if you’re talking about value then I don’t think there’s much of an argument but that’s not how it came off when you said “significantly better”.
Given your history I’m still a bit surprised. In my experience when it comes to comparing a Push, DHX2 or any other high performing shock, it’s the tune that makes one feel “significantly better” than another. They are all great hardware but a shit tune is going to feel like shit.
Sorry but I get tired of people saying one brand is way better than another when they both offer top tier stuff. Typically it’s the less experienced who do this though.
That new v10 looks sweet as usual but the size small in its neutral settings has a rear center like 25mm longer than it’s front. The rest of the sizes look pretty similar front to rear.
Not really relevant to most riders but interesting. Wonder what that rides like.
There is no fancy engineering or anything special about a Push shock really besides it just being well made and some nice CNC work. The secret...
There is no fancy engineering or anything special about a Push shock really besides it just being well made and some nice CNC work. The secret sauce is in the fact that it is basically custom tuned for the bike and rider. At the end of the day, without the tuning, the RS SD and the Push are almost the same.
I do think there is scope for push to do a simpler shock that is still tuned to the rider and bike, that would be a better solution to the majority of riders. Whether Push can make that work for them financially is a different story?
I'm interested to see how their fork rides personally, THAT looks like some engineering has been put to work there!
Uh parabolic needle transitioning to a spring loaded poppet all tuned by an electromagnetic dyno for the individual chassis is the definition of Fancy Engineering in my book. Not arguing for, or against, but it’s definitely fancy.
Performance, price, availability, service, and even the used market. I had push on an offering v1, sb130, mullet Bronson, enduro, scout, offering v2, and SJ Evo...
Performance, price, availability, service, and even the used market. I had push on an offering v1, sb130, mullet Bronson, enduro, scout, offering v2, and SJ Evo. On all of those bikes I also tried X2, prev ver SD air, dhx and dhx2. Once the new SD coil came out I had it on a sentinel, SJ evo, and now forbidden Druid v2. Any time I get a new bike or new suspension component I take my time setting it up, different springs, and bracketing on the same trail. If I can, I bring multiple shocks to the trail and swap them in the parking lot for back to back runs. I’d take the SD ult coil for $600 delivered and spend the other $1000 on anything else.
not to derail the forum too much, but to defend my statement a little bit.
Sure, if you’re talking about value then I don’t think there’s much of an argument but that’s not how it came off when you said “significantly...
Sure, if you’re talking about value then I don’t think there’s much of an argument but that’s not how it came off when you said “significantly better”.
Given your history I’m still a bit surprised. In my experience when it comes to comparing a Push, DHX2 or any other high performing shock, it’s the tune that makes one feel “significantly better” than another. They are all great hardware but a shit tune is going to feel like shit.
Sorry but I get tired of people saying one brand is way better than another when they both offer top tier stuff. Typically it’s the less experienced who do this though.
Performance, price, availability, service, and even the used market. I had push on an offering v1, sb130, mullet Bronson, enduro, scout, offering v2, and SJ Evo...
Performance, price, availability, service, and even the used market. I had push on an offering v1, sb130, mullet Bronson, enduro, scout, offering v2, and SJ Evo. On all of those bikes I also tried X2, prev ver SD air, dhx and dhx2. Once the new SD coil came out I had it on a sentinel, SJ evo, and now forbidden Druid v2. Any time I get a new bike or new suspension component I take my time setting it up, different springs, and bracketing on the same trail. If I can, I bring multiple shocks to the trail and swap them in the parking lot for back to back runs. I’d take the SD ult coil for $600 delivered and spend the other $1000 on anything else.
not to derail the forum too much, but to defend my statement a little bit.
Sure, if you’re talking about value then I don’t think there’s much of an argument but that’s not how it came off when you said “significantly...
Sure, if you’re talking about value then I don’t think there’s much of an argument but that’s not how it came off when you said “significantly better”.
Given your history I’m still a bit surprised. In my experience when it comes to comparing a Push, DHX2 or any other high performing shock, it’s the tune that makes one feel “significantly better” than another. They are all great hardware but a shit tune is going to feel like shit.
Sorry but I get tired of people saying one brand is way better than another when they both offer top tier stuff. Typically it’s the less experienced who do this though.
I've been watching most of his videos, but I'm still impressed with the high quality of the frame and I'm sure it rides great too.
I've been watching most of his videos, but I'm still impressed with the high quality of the frame and I'm sure it rides great too.
So I get that the shock rotated 90 degrees is to allow for a straight down tube which is stronger then a bent one, but I am confused on why the shock is oriented with reservoir on bottom in the first place, wouldn’t reservoir up give the same clearance?
Does anyone know if the lower shock mount piece where it ties into the frame has a bearing in it (DU, or Cartridge, etc)?
So I get that the shock rotated 90 degrees is to allow for a straight down tube which is stronger then a bent one, but I...
So I get that the shock rotated 90 degrees is to allow for a straight down tube which is stronger then a bent one, but I am confused on why the shock is oriented with reservoir on bottom in the first place, wouldn’t reservoir up give the same clearance?
Does anyone know if the lower shock mount piece where it ties into the frame has a bearing in it (DU, or Cartridge, etc)?
Usually has to do with unsprung weight and how that affects suspension
So I get that the shock rotated 90 degrees is to allow for a straight down tube which is stronger then a bent one, but I...
So I get that the shock rotated 90 degrees is to allow for a straight down tube which is stronger then a bent one, but I am confused on why the shock is oriented with reservoir on bottom in the first place, wouldn’t reservoir up give the same clearance?
Does anyone know if the lower shock mount piece where it ties into the frame has a bearing in it (DU, or Cartridge, etc)?
Yeah like Zuestman says above, Neko says it's to keep the weight of the moving part of the suspension as low as possible. He shows the lower shock mount here https://youtu.be/nZADPtNg_Js?t=589, it doesn't look like a cartridge bearing and it looks like the tube that holds the shock bolt is metal and then the larger plastic looking tube around that must be the bushing.
I would bet on knee clearance. I pedal and ride with knees fairly close to the frame and would prefer to have the shock rotated by 90° the way Neko did it. It would be quite a wide behemoth upside down to what he has now.
Don't think a bearing is needed in the yoke, looks like a standard shock hardware mounting set is used. It would make sense to make it the same dimensions to a shock eyelet and have a 30 mm width in the frame to give some more freedom, but the bottom shock mount sees fairly little rotation compared to the rocker... A lot of bikes have a bearing on only one eyelet.
What I would prefer to see is a pair of these yokes to fully release the shock from side to side loads.
Possibly better knee clearance or a slimmer rocker by mounting with resi on the bottom.
has to have some kind of bearing on the tiny yoke.
Interesting that it can rotate on two axes with this mount. sounds like it’s purpose is solely to allow for a 90 degree rotation of shock but I wonder if there is any performance advantages, like reduction in shock loads due to frame flex/alignment?
Yeah like Zuestman says above, Neko says it's to keep the weight of the moving part of the suspension as low as possible. He shows the lower...
Yeah like Zuestman says above, Neko says it's to keep the weight of the moving part of the suspension as low as possible. He shows the lower shock mount here https://youtu.be/nZADPtNg_Js?t=589, it doesn't look like a cartridge bearing and it looks like the tube that holds the shock bolt is metal and then the larger plastic looking tube around that must be the bushing.
Thanks, wish I would have watched that before posting lol.
Neko's bike is super interesting. REALLY long chainstays across all sizes, and a pretty high antisquat value. I remember in his early test videos, he settled for a low pivot/mid pivot bike with more rearward axle path, and used an ochain instead of an idler pulley to overcome the pedal kickback from the rearward axle path. So if you buy a Frameworks, maybe budget an extra few hundred dollars for an Ochain. The bike also has a very low BB for a long wheelbase/long travel bike, so don't forget to buy a good bashguard or three.
Am I completely off base thinking the frameworks bike is very similar to the 29'er Banshee legend in terms of geo and leverage ratio? I'm biased as it's my personal bike but the more I look the more I think the banshee was ahead of the curve in 2019 when it got released.
There is no fancy engineering or anything special about a Push shock really besides it just being well made and some nice CNC work. The secret sauce is in the fact that it is basically custom tuned for the bike and rider. At the end of the day, without the tuning, the RS SD and the Push are almost the same.
I do think there is scope for push to do a simpler shock that is still tuned to the rider and bike, that would be a better solution to the majority of riders. Whether Push can make that work for them financially is a different story?
I'm interested to see how their fork rides personally, THAT looks like some engineering has been put to work there!
just because you have just 4 actual click to choose from doesn't make all the clicks on fox, cane creek or push useless, or not working.
regardless
new V10.8 just released
although they could've spend some more time on the stanchion protection, for example the one custom made by Rulezman for the intend forks are way better and more protective, curious to see how crazy expensive that fork will be tho
Performance, price, availability, service, and even the used market. I had push on an offering v1, sb130, mullet Bronson, enduro, scout, offering v2, and SJ Evo. On all of those bikes I also tried X2, prev ver SD air, dhx and dhx2. Once the new SD coil came out I had it on a sentinel, SJ evo, and now forbidden Druid v2. Any time I get a new bike or new suspension component I take my time setting it up, different springs, and bracketing on the same trail. If I can, I bring multiple shocks to the trail and swap them in the parking lot for back to back runs. I’d take the SD ult coil for $600 delivered and spend the other $1000 on anything else.
not to derail the forum too much, but to defend my statement a little bit.
Sure, if you’re talking about value then I don’t think there’s much of an argument but that’s not how it came off when you said “significantly better”.
Given your history I’m still a bit surprised. In my experience when it comes to comparing a Push, DHX2 or any other high performing shock, it’s the tune that makes one feel “significantly better” than another. They are all great hardware but a shit tune is going to feel like shit.
Sorry but I get tired of people saying one brand is way better than another when they both offer top tier stuff. Typically it’s the less experienced who do this though.
That new v10 looks sweet as usual but the size small in its neutral settings has a rear center like 25mm longer than it’s front. The rest of the sizes look pretty similar front to rear.
Not really relevant to most riders but interesting. Wonder what that rides like.
new v10 link for those who haven't seen yet. - https://www.vitalmtb.com/news/press-release/santa-cruz-finally-releases…
Uh parabolic needle transitioning to a spring loaded poppet all tuned by an electromagnetic dyno for the individual chassis is the definition of Fancy Engineering in my book. Not arguing for, or against, but it’s definitely fancy.
New Kenevo SL dropping this week then.
you can get the r2ct with several tunes already?
https://www.emtb-news.de/news/specialized-kenevo-sl2-2024/ Updated motor (SL1.2 with 50Nm) and new colors, nothing really new at the end.
50nm
That top rocker looks different
Was really hoping for a full powered Kenevo update
You can get them with custom tunes from a lot of tuners too, plus there's aftermarket parts of them such as the WPS piston for example
neko talks about production frames
https://www.specialized.com/gb/en/c/eturbokenevo?productfamily=Turbo%25…
xfusion has a new high-volume air shock - https://www.vitalmtb.com/news/press-release/xfusion-shox-announces-all-…
I've been watching most of his videos, but I'm still impressed with the high quality of the frame and I'm sure it rides great too.
In several month. What a pity
So I get that the shock rotated 90 degrees is to allow for a straight down tube which is stronger then a bent one, but I am confused on why the shock is oriented with reservoir on bottom in the first place, wouldn’t reservoir up give the same clearance?
Does anyone know if the lower shock mount piece where it ties into the frame has a bearing in it (DU, or Cartridge, etc)?
Possibly better knee clearance or a slimmer rocker by mounting with resi on the bottom.
has to have some kind of bearing on the tiny yoke.
Usually has to do with unsprung weight and how that affects suspension
Yeah like Zuestman says above, Neko says it's to keep the weight of the moving part of the suspension as low as possible. He shows the lower shock mount here https://youtu.be/nZADPtNg_Js?t=589, it doesn't look like a cartridge bearing and it looks like the tube that holds the shock bolt is metal and then the larger plastic looking tube around that must be the bushing.
I would bet on knee clearance. I pedal and ride with knees fairly close to the frame and would prefer to have the shock rotated by 90° the way Neko did it. It would be quite a wide behemoth upside down to what he has now.
Don't think a bearing is needed in the yoke, looks like a standard shock hardware mounting set is used. It would make sense to make it the same dimensions to a shock eyelet and have a 30 mm width in the frame to give some more freedom, but the bottom shock mount sees fairly little rotation compared to the rocker... A lot of bikes have a bearing on only one eyelet.
What I would prefer to see is a pair of these yokes to fully release the shock from side to side loads.
Interesting that it can rotate on two axes with this mount. sounds like it’s purpose is solely to allow for a 90 degree rotation of shock but I wonder if there is any performance advantages, like reduction in shock loads due to frame flex/alignment?
Pole uses a fully rotated shock with a 90° yoke on both ends BTW.
Thanks, wish I would have watched that before posting lol.
Neko's bike is super interesting. REALLY long chainstays across all sizes, and a pretty high antisquat value. I remember in his early test videos, he settled for a low pivot/mid pivot bike with more rearward axle path, and used an ochain instead of an idler pulley to overcome the pedal kickback from the rearward axle path. So if you buy a Frameworks, maybe budget an extra few hundred dollars for an Ochain. The bike also has a very low BB for a long wheelbase/long travel bike, so don't forget to buy a good bashguard or three.
Am I completely off base thinking the frameworks bike is very similar to the 29'er Banshee legend in terms of geo and leverage ratio? I'm biased as it's my personal bike but the more I look the more I think the banshee was ahead of the curve in 2019 when it got released.