A question looking at the forks flex there
Since i started riding motorcycles i appreciate the usd forks even more,
Why upside down forks aren't widely...
A question looking at the forks flex there
Since i started riding motorcycles i appreciate the usd forks even more,
Why upside down forks aren't widely used since like 2021 where weight became a less of a priority? we used to have an excuse because there was significant weight differences but just checked and fox 40 is 2850g and a dorado is 2970 both for 29 wheels.
I’ve always thought the same thing. People say that you get weird torsional flexy noodle feelings with them. I don’t know how much I do or don’t believe that, but a lot of people say that. I guess the majority have agreed that fore/aft flex issues that standard mtb forks have is less of a negative than the torsional flex that a usd fork has.
I thought a beefier hub to fork lug interface would be a fairly easy solution but Mr. Camp (sram dude) said it’s pretty tough to make happen.
A question looking at the forks flex there
Since i started riding motorcycles i appreciate the usd forks even more,
Why upside down forks aren't widely...
A question looking at the forks flex there
Since i started riding motorcycles i appreciate the usd forks even more,
Why upside down forks aren't widely used since like 2021 where weight became a less of a priority? we used to have an excuse because there was significant weight differences but just checked and fox 40 is 2850g and a dorado is 2970 both for 29 wheels.
I’ve always thought the same thing. People say that you get weird torsional flexy noodle feelings with them. I don’t know how much I do or...
I’ve always thought the same thing. People say that you get weird torsional flexy noodle feelings with them. I don’t know how much I do or don’t believe that, but a lot of people say that. I guess the majority have agreed that fore/aft flex issues that standard mtb forks have is less of a negative than the torsional flex that a usd fork has.
I thought a beefier hub to fork lug interface would be a fairly easy solution but Mr. Camp (sram dude) said it’s pretty tough to make happen.
Sram has a vested interest in maintaining the status quo. I wouldn't take a manufacturer's word as the final authority of anything. They are promoting their products above all else.
Sram has a vested interest in maintaining the status quo. I wouldn't take a manufacturer's word as the final authority of anything. They are promoting their...
Sram has a vested interest in maintaining the status quo. I wouldn't take a manufacturer's word as the final authority of anything. They are promoting their products above all else.
That is not even remotely true.
look at 2010 sram and 2023 sram. They have drastically changed the status quo regarding drivetrains first by 1x and then setting the benchmark for electric components. Among other things.
Sram made the inverted RS-1 years ago, I actually owned one. It was a great fork, but was a little niche, it required a proprietary hub and despite the entire uppers/steerer tube being made out of carbon it was actually slightly heavier than the Sid at the time. If Sram was able to get the weight significantly lower than the Sid I think they would have been more popular.
What must be loudly said about SRAM is they easily provide technical specifications documents regarding their products from which one can deduce standard specs like Boost while Shimano hardly specs any technical drawings.
Sram made the inverted RS-1 years ago, I actually owned one. It was a great fork, but was a little niche, it required a proprietary hub...
Sram made the inverted RS-1 years ago, I actually owned one. It was a great fork, but was a little niche, it required a proprietary hub and despite the entire uppers/steerer tube being made out of carbon it was actually slightly heavier than the Sid at the time. If Sram was able to get the weight significantly lower than the Sid I think they would have been more popular.
wasn't the hub one of the first in boost 15x110 size with torque caps to negate the "noodly" feeling?
I have a dorado, she's a wet noodle torsionally alright. Sometimes the bars don't point where the wheel is out of a corner 😅
It's wonderful...
I have a dorado, she's a wet noodle torsionally alright. Sometimes the bars don't point where the wheel is out of a corner 😅
It's wonderful in a straight line though, esp under braking.
What year is the fork?
Also I wonder why USD forks do not do what Cannondale does with the flattening of the stanchion tubes inside of the… uppers/housing? Does Cannondale have a patent on that? Because people say the Ocho fork does not flex like this and it has 1 tube.
What year is the fork?
Also I wonder why USD forks do not do what Cannondale does with the flattening of the stanchion tubes inside of...
What year is the fork?
Also I wonder why USD forks do not do what Cannondale does with the flattening of the stanchion tubes inside of the… uppers/housing? Does Cannondale have a patent on that? Because people say the Ocho fork does not flex like this and it has 1 tube.
What year is the fork?
Also I wonder why USD forks do not do what Cannondale does with the flattening of the stanchion tubes inside of...
What year is the fork?
Also I wonder why USD forks do not do what Cannondale does with the flattening of the stanchion tubes inside of the… uppers/housing? Does Cannondale have a patent on that? Because people say the Ocho fork does not flex like this and it has 1 tube.
They don't do it because it is massively expensive. and complicated. different races for each side of the needle bearings. a regular lefty needs 8.... so that is 16, plus the bearings etc, and machine time. fork would be unsellable at the price.
Sram has a vested interest in maintaining the status quo. I wouldn't take a manufacturer's word as the final authority of anything. They are promoting their...
Sram has a vested interest in maintaining the status quo. I wouldn't take a manufacturer's word as the final authority of anything. They are promoting their products above all else.
That is not even remotely true.
look at 2010 sram and 2023 sram. They have drastically changed the status quo regarding drivetrains first by 1x...
That is not even remotely true.
look at 2010 sram and 2023 sram. They have drastically changed the status quo regarding drivetrains first by 1x and then setting the benchmark for electric components. Among other things.
Manufacturer promote their products and highlight their benefits vs competitors. You're not going to hear Sram saying USD forks are better unless they have a USD fork on offer. This is marketing 101.
To everybody commenting on Zeb and Enduro, my thoughts exactly.
Anywho, pretty sure it would be anodized, not painted for the aluminium part?
More importantly... The...
To everybody commenting on Zeb and Enduro, my thoughts exactly.
Anywho, pretty sure it would be anodized, not painted for the aluminium part?
More importantly... The seatstays are black. No aluminium parts on them. Is this an off-the-shelf part? Can it be a Stumpjumper EVO seatstay?
They're using the Enduro seat stays. Or at least the same mold, god knows if it's the same carbon layup.
Good point, the Enduro has a clevis rocker and a solid seatstay while the stumpy is the other way around - clevis on the seatstay. The DH bike indeed does not have a clevis.
Sram made the inverted RS-1 years ago, I actually owned one. It was a great fork, but was a little niche, it required a proprietary hub...
Sram made the inverted RS-1 years ago, I actually owned one. It was a great fork, but was a little niche, it required a proprietary hub and despite the entire uppers/steerer tube being made out of carbon it was actually slightly heavier than the Sid at the time. If Sram was able to get the weight significantly lower than the Sid I think they would have been more popular.
Considering modern forks I guess the RS1 would function with a normal hub, but would be a bit more flexy. But that torque cap interface found it's way into most other RS forks anyway and I've been running torque caps on my Lyrik previously and on the Zeb now since 2019. Getting different endcaps is not much of a problem.
I have a dorado, she's a wet noodle torsionally alright. Sometimes the bars don't point where the wheel is out of a corner 😅
It's wonderful...
I have a dorado, she's a wet noodle torsionally alright. Sometimes the bars don't point where the wheel is out of a corner 😅
It's wonderful in a straight line though, esp under braking.
Me too, honestly I can’t say I feel the torsional stiffness in a good or bad way.
But the fore-aft stiffness is hugely noticeable especially when landing something big
Sram made the inverted RS-1 years ago, I actually owned one. It was a great fork, but was a little niche, it required a proprietary hub...
Sram made the inverted RS-1 years ago, I actually owned one. It was a great fork, but was a little niche, it required a proprietary hub and despite the entire uppers/steerer tube being made out of carbon it was actually slightly heavier than the Sid at the time. If Sram was able to get the weight significantly lower than the Sid I think they would have been more popular.
Considering modern forks I guess the RS1 would function with a normal hub, but would be a bit more flexy. But that torque cap interface found...
Considering modern forks I guess the RS1 would function with a normal hub, but would be a bit more flexy. But that torque cap interface found it's way into most other RS forks anyway and I've been running torque caps on my Lyrik previously and on the Zeb now since 2019. Getting different endcaps is not much of a problem.
I rode one as well- I remember watching the wheel dive left when you pulled the front brake. made it squirrelly under braking.
they had a very special hub to try and add stiffness. Everyone hated that custom hub. it was wider and had huge knurled end caps that were rigidly connected to try and get some stiffness back. Would be even flexier without the special hub- probably unsafe to ride…
Sram made the inverted RS-1 years ago, I actually owned one. It was a great fork, but was a little niche, it required a proprietary hub...
Sram made the inverted RS-1 years ago, I actually owned one. It was a great fork, but was a little niche, it required a proprietary hub and despite the entire uppers/steerer tube being made out of carbon it was actually slightly heavier than the Sid at the time. If Sram was able to get the weight significantly lower than the Sid I think they would have been more popular.
Considering modern forks I guess the RS1 would function with a normal hub, but would be a bit more flexy. But that torque cap interface found...
Considering modern forks I guess the RS1 would function with a normal hub, but would be a bit more flexy. But that torque cap interface found it's way into most other RS forks anyway and I've been running torque caps on my Lyrik previously and on the Zeb now since 2019. Getting different endcaps is not much of a problem.
Not exactly. The proprietary hub was built a little differently, instead of standard end caps it had what they called the “torque tube” which was a solid axle that spanned the full length between the fork dropouts, it was also much bigger than a standard 15mm axle, I think it was 27mm. The ends of the torque tube necked down to accept a normal 15mm Maxle but all the strength was in the torque, the maxle was just there to hold everything in place. The ends of the torque tube were also knurled, the fork dropouts had the matching knurl pattern in them so the hub “keyed” into the dropouts.
What year is the fork?
Also I wonder why USD forks do not do what Cannondale does with the flattening of the stanchion tubes inside of...
What year is the fork?
Also I wonder why USD forks do not do what Cannondale does with the flattening of the stanchion tubes inside of the… uppers/housing? Does Cannondale have a patent on that? Because people say the Ocho fork does not flex like this and it has 1 tube.
They don't do it because it is massively expensive. and complicated. different races for each side of the needle bearings. a regular lefty needs 8.... so...
They don't do it because it is massively expensive. and complicated. different races for each side of the needle bearings. a regular lefty needs 8.... so that is 16, plus the bearings etc, and machine time. fork would be unsellable at the price.
I see. Not doubting your reason, but do you have a guesstimate how much that would cost? Maybe they dont do that, but youd think they would have some sort of work out like that to prevent torsion.
But then why motorcycles doesn't suffer the same rigidity problems?
It's not like they have massive axles or big contact points
for example this is my...
But then why motorcycles doesn't suffer the same rigidity problems?
It's not like they have massive axles or big contact points
for example this is my bikes axle
I see 2 clamping bolts on each dropout that rs1 didn’t have.
steel axle? Diameter? Torsional stiffness is squared or cubed based off radius I think. So even a small bump in diameter is big for torsion.
triple clamp? Stiffness of those?
lots of small differences make a big overall impact.
ZEB 190 is 27,5 only if my memory is still fine
Better check your memory banks….
I’ve always thought the same thing. People say that you get weird torsional flexy noodle feelings with them. I don’t know how much I do or don’t believe that, but a lot of people say that. I guess the majority have agreed that fore/aft flex issues that standard mtb forks have is less of a negative than the torsional flex that a usd fork has.
I thought a beefier hub to fork lug interface would be a fairly easy solution but Mr. Camp (sram dude) said it’s pretty tough to make happen.
Yea we won't ever see that.
Sram has a vested interest in maintaining the status quo. I wouldn't take a manufacturer's word as the final authority of anything. They are promoting their products above all else.
That is not even remotely true.
look at 2010 sram and 2023 sram. They have drastically changed the status quo regarding drivetrains first by 1x and then setting the benchmark for electric components. Among other things.
Sram made the inverted RS-1 years ago, I actually owned one. It was a great fork, but was a little niche, it required a proprietary hub and despite the entire uppers/steerer tube being made out of carbon it was actually slightly heavier than the Sid at the time. If Sram was able to get the weight significantly lower than the Sid I think they would have been more popular.
What must be loudly said about SRAM is they easily provide technical specifications documents regarding their products from which one can deduce standard specs like Boost while Shimano hardly specs any technical drawings.
wasn't the hub one of the first in boost 15x110 size with torque caps to negate the "noodly" feeling?
I have a dorado, she's a wet noodle torsionally alright. Sometimes the bars don't point where the wheel is out of a corner 😅
It's wonderful in a straight line though, esp under braking.
What year is the fork?
Also I wonder why USD forks do not do what Cannondale does with the flattening of the stanchion tubes inside of the… uppers/housing? Does Cannondale have a patent on that? Because people say the Ocho fork does not flex like this and it has 1 tube.
It's a '23 Dorado 37 pro.
Fork is wonderful, just has its nuances.
They don't do it because it is massively expensive. and complicated. different races for each side of the needle bearings. a regular lefty needs 8.... so that is 16, plus the bearings etc, and machine time. fork would be unsellable at the price.
Manufacturer promote their products and highlight their benefits vs competitors. You're not going to hear Sram saying USD forks are better unless they have a USD fork on offer. This is marketing 101.
Good point, the Enduro has a clevis rocker and a solid seatstay while the stumpy is the other way around - clevis on the seatstay. The DH bike indeed does not have a clevis.
https://www.facebook.com/birdmtb.co.uk/posts/pfbid02e7mJAqZ5PTVK1gJcfTuz8rQsAkKcyF4eNYLqe5quqq8pTE1jgjux7iQYXPzrCt2Ml
Bird Cycleworks stops production of 27.5 bikes, so 27.5 models have a reduced price.
https://www.bird.bike/aeris-am/
New bike release:
Aeris AM 160mm Carbon
Considering modern forks I guess the RS1 would function with a normal hub, but would be a bit more flexy. But that torque cap interface found it's way into most other RS forks anyway and I've been running torque caps on my Lyrik previously and on the Zeb now since 2019. Getting different endcaps is not much of a problem.
Me too, honestly I can’t say I feel the torsional stiffness in a good or bad way.
But the fore-aft stiffness is hugely noticeable especially when landing something big
I rode one as well- I remember watching the wheel dive left when you pulled the front brake. made it squirrelly under braking.
they had a very special hub to try and add stiffness. Everyone hated that custom hub. it was wider and had huge knurled end caps that were rigidly connected to try and get some stiffness back. Would be even flexier without the special hub- probably unsafe to ride…
looked super cool though
Not exactly. The proprietary hub was built a little differently, instead of standard end caps it had what they called the “torque tube” which was a solid axle that spanned the full length between the fork dropouts, it was also much bigger than a standard 15mm axle, I think it was 27mm. The ends of the torque tube necked down to accept a normal 15mm Maxle but all the strength was in the torque, the maxle was just there to hold everything in place. The ends of the torque tube were also knurled, the fork dropouts had the matching knurl pattern in them so the hub “keyed” into the dropouts.
Ah, yeah, sorry, it wasn't the standard torque cap, it was also knurled!
Front wheel twisting off to the side sounds scary though
Wonderful insight from behind the curtain as always.
But then why motorcycles doesn't suffer the same rigidity problems?
It's not like they have massive axles or big contact points
for example this is my bikes axle
I see. Not doubting your reason, but do you have a guesstimate how much that would cost? Maybe they dont do that, but youd think they would have some sort of work out like that to prevent torsion.
Let’s just wait for the Push fork to be released and find out how they worked out rigidity.
I checked, you're right, I missed it
I see 2 clamping bolts on each dropout that rs1 didn’t have.
steel axle? Diameter? Torsional stiffness is squared or cubed based off radius I think. So even a small bump in diameter is big for torsion.
triple clamp? Stiffness of those?
lots of small differences make a big overall impact.
Might not have to wait to much longer, this was posted today from Darren.
Wow, sold out already!
https://www.pushindustries.com/products/nine-point-one
Wow! Anyone know how big that initial allotment was?
The axle is 15mm steel