MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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Sir HC
Posts
169
Joined
7/5/2014
Location
GB
9/13/2023 3:50am
sspomer wrote:
heckler SL is on homepage and canyon sent this PR about their innovation facility https://www.vitalmtb.com/news/press-release/new-canyon-innovation-lab-unlock-next-level-bicycle-designs

heckler SL is on homepage and canyon sent this PR about their innovation facility

https://www.vitalmtb.com/news/press-release/new-canyon-innovation-lab-u…

498526-230818 Innovation-Lab 0268-e59933-original-1693316363

Now this is a steering damper. https://www.instagram.com/p/CxFKo4_hea0/

Properjob

 

6
9/13/2023 3:58am

This, i think, is actually a moto-component. Obviously, there’s no problem to figure out how to mount it on a mtb. Mic Williams and his buddies at Trinity think pretty open-mindedly and do come out with some pretty neat solutions for their bikes (and not only theirs, actually!). Smile

8
nicompr
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Villes FR
9/13/2023 4:15am

spyshotlapierre-1-1024x576

New Lapierre Spicy 

13
NuriB
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8
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8/12/2023
Location
salzgitter DE
9/13/2023 5:19am
nicompr wrote:
New Lapierre Spicy 

spyshotlapierre-1-1024x576

New Lapierre Spicy 

That’s a really short seattube…

16
9/13/2023 5:49am

I like the look of the lapierre tho! Hope they do a shorter travel version similar to it!

3
9/13/2023 6:15am
Endurhevia wrote:

I like the look of the lapierre tho! Hope they do a shorter travel version similar to it!

yeah it's like the first good looking Lapierre in years

5
Primoz
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Location
SI
9/13/2023 6:29am

Spicy or Froggy (park bike)? A 240 mm OneUp seatpost is a no go in this frame.

Jakub_G
Posts
353
Joined
8/7/2019
Location
SK
9/13/2023 9:08am
This, i think, is actually a moto-component. Obviously, there’s no problem to figure out how to mount it on a mtb. Mic Williams and his buddies...

This, i think, is actually a moto-component. Obviously, there’s no problem to figure out how to mount it on a mtb. Mic Williams and his buddies at Trinity think pretty open-mindedly and do come out with some pretty neat solutions for their bikes (and not only theirs, actually!). Smile

Yes, as written in description, showa old school steering damper as used by Ricky Carmichael 

1
Jakub_G
Posts
353
Joined
8/7/2019
Location
SK
9/13/2023 9:10am
Primoz wrote:

Spicy or Froggy (park bike)? A 240 mm OneUp seatpost is a no go in this frame.

I would say any dropper post is no go in this frame lol,very similar to commencal furious in front triangle shape.

9/13/2023 9:14am

Is there any new info on when the new conti tires will be available with softer rubber in lighter casings?  Think I heard/saw that was coming?

maybe just trying to keep the current range in stock first haha. 

I also want this though, i dont want DH casing to get super soft....

11 days late buuuuut

 

WTB needs to bring back the Judge/Verdict in the thick sidewall/longer lasting tread compound. Had a set on my park bike, best things ever.

Jvhowube
Posts
1
Joined
5/31/2023
Location
Steamboat Springs, CO US
9/13/2023 9:17am
metadave wrote:
It's not really like that older slayer and it's not really vpp is all I'll say. Seatpost shouldn't be any worse than any other current bike...

It's not really like that older slayer and it's not really vpp is all I'll say. Seatpost shouldn't be any worse than any other current bike with low mounted shocks like a Specialized or Santa Cruz.

As an owner of current Altitude, will be curious to see if they can retain some of its characteristics with the complete suspension redesign.  This is the best bike I've ever owned, and probably won't be selling it anytime soon.  Not sure there was much more for them to do with this platform though - a stepwise upgrade would've seen potentially beefier tubes for increased stiffness and a swat box and... that's about it.  Not a good way to get people to buy your bike I guess.

2
9/13/2023 12:44pm

New optic. Heard from my LBS that it and the incoming sight are HP. IMG 4468

6
9/13/2023 1:12pm
New optic. Heard from my LBS that it and the incoming sight are HP. 

New optic. Heard from my LBS that it and the incoming sight are HP. IMG 4468

Am I closed minded because I'm skeptical on the benefit of HP on shorter travel bikes?

11
Primoz
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4552
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Location
SI
9/13/2023 1:24pm

No.

7
9/13/2023 2:17pm

why are people, in general, afraid of high-pivots? don't like it, don't buy a norco? there's literally hundreds of options nowadays with pretty much the same geometry

4
earleb
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Location
North Vancouver, BC CA
9/13/2023 2:32pm

The carbon Fluid slots into replace the Optic. 

But don't worry if you love the current Optic and just want another one of them I'd guess they have stock of them to keep on selling. Everyone has overstock to sell. 

7
Onawalk
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344
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Location
CA
9/13/2023 2:37pm
New optic. Heard from my LBS that it and the incoming sight are HP. 

New optic. Heard from my LBS that it and the incoming sight are HP. IMG 4468

Am I closed minded because I'm skeptical on the benefit of HP on shorter travel bikes?

Heres my take on it, if youre building a short travel bike, thats not intended primarily for XC riding/racing, a HP makes a tonne of sense.

You still get the added benefit of a "platform" earlier in the travel, which can feel more sprightly and responsive, but with additional bump eating capabilities.  Case in point would be the Forbiedden Druid past and present. 

There is a portion of riders who arent interested in the steepest and deepest, but still ride hard enough on chundery trails that this makes sense.

It also allows you to more accurately separate braking and body forces from the suspension kinematics.

I've been eagerly awaiting the HP Optic

7
brash
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Location
AU
9/13/2023 2:40pm
This, i think, is actually a moto-component. Obviously, there’s no problem to figure out how to mount it on a mtb. Mic Williams and his buddies...

This, i think, is actually a moto-component. Obviously, there’s no problem to figure out how to mount it on a mtb. Mic Williams and his buddies at Trinity think pretty open-mindedly and do come out with some pretty neat solutions for their bikes (and not only theirs, actually!). Smile

Yep, straight off a Honda CRF250/450R, had one on my 2011 and they definitely work well, adjustable too. Very clever integration by Mic. It would exude some force so that mount may need some beefing up IMO, but very clever.

2
Onawalk
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344
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7/5/2021
Location
CA
9/13/2023 2:40pm
Primoz wrote:

No.

Have you ridden an HP short travel bike?

do you ride the sort of terrain that they might excel on regularly?

I remember a couple months ago you were partially predicting a step back from HP bikes, and since then there has been a couple of notable releases.  Not sure I understand your reluctance to them. 

Onawalk
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344
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Location
CA
9/13/2023 3:00pm
earleb wrote:
The carbon Fluid slots into replace the Optic.  But don't worry if you love the current Optic and just want another one of them I'd guess...

The carbon Fluid slots into replace the Optic. 

But don't worry if you love the current Optic and just want another one of them I'd guess they have stock of them to keep on selling. Everyone has overstock to sell. 

Spent some time on the Optic, love it, really wanted one, looking forward to the HP version.

Spent a weekend on a Fluid, wasnt the same, tried my hardest to like it, wasnt for me.  The Sight felt like a much better bike.

2
9/13/2023 3:34pm
Onawalk wrote:
Have you ridden an HP short travel bike? do you ride the sort of terrain that they might excel on regularly? I remember a couple months...

Have you ridden an HP short travel bike?

do you ride the sort of terrain that they might excel on regularly?

I remember a couple months ago you were partially predicting a step back from HP bikes, and since then there has been a couple of notable releases.  Not sure I understand your reluctance to them. 

People say the high pivot makes a short travel bike feel longer. Why not just use a longer travel bike? a 130mm rear 150mm front high pivot won't pedal as well as a 160/160 traditional bike, and capability (I didn't say performance, thats even more subjective) will be hypothetically comparable if the hype is true. 

9/13/2023 3:52pm
Onawalk wrote:
Have you ridden an HP short travel bike? do you ride the sort of terrain that they might excel on regularly? I remember a couple months...

Have you ridden an HP short travel bike?

do you ride the sort of terrain that they might excel on regularly?

I remember a couple months ago you were partially predicting a step back from HP bikes, and since then there has been a couple of notable releases.  Not sure I understand your reluctance to them. 

People say the high pivot makes a short travel bike feel longer. Why not just use a longer travel bike? a 130mm rear 150mm front high...

People say the high pivot makes a short travel bike feel longer. Why not just use a longer travel bike? a 130mm rear 150mm front high pivot won't pedal as well as a 160/160 traditional bike, and capability (I didn't say performance, thats even more subjective) will be hypothetically comparable if the hype is true. 

What makes you think a short travel HP won't pedal as well as a longer travel traditional? I don't know pedaling kinematics well enough to know, but I do know the idlers don't cause that much drag unless you were putting a REALLY big day in. 

Onawalk
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CA
9/13/2023 5:17pm
Onawalk wrote:
Have you ridden an HP short travel bike? do you ride the sort of terrain that they might excel on regularly? I remember a couple months...

Have you ridden an HP short travel bike?

do you ride the sort of terrain that they might excel on regularly?

I remember a couple months ago you were partially predicting a step back from HP bikes, and since then there has been a couple of notable releases.  Not sure I understand your reluctance to them. 

People say the high pivot makes a short travel bike feel longer. Why not just use a longer travel bike? a 130mm rear 150mm front high...

People say the high pivot makes a short travel bike feel longer. Why not just use a longer travel bike? a 130mm rear 150mm front high pivot won't pedal as well as a 160/160 traditional bike, and capability (I didn't say performance, thats even more subjective) will be hypothetically comparable if the hype is true. 

Theres more to it than simply pivot location in terms of the bike pedalling well, thats a generalization that doesnt really hold up.  You can make a HP bike pedal as well or better than a non-HP bike (lets be honest, theres no "traditional" bike here for arguments sake) and when we are talking about HP bikes, we are talking about the seemingly more prevelant HP idler equipped bikes.  A horst link, or VPP bike can be built to have a high virtual pivot, and not rely on an idler, but theres a whole other differnet set of challenges

The HP and idler allow the designer to separate the different forces more easily, to isolate different aspects of the suspension design (like a 6 bar, with less complexity, or maybe just different). 

The Druid climbs well, loads of traction, and is very predictable, eats rough stuff like no other short travel bike I've ridden (cause if you took the rearward growth, of about 18mm, it might actually be closer to a 150mm bike)  in doing so, the pedalling "platform" arrives quicker than if it was a Sight with 150mm travel lets say.  So theres a sense of spritelyness, or urgency to it when you do pedal it around.  Think of it like a bike that "feels" fast (short travel, maybe tighter geo) but when it gets hairy feels like a 150ish bike (longer WB, eats chunder)

I also think that the short travel versions of these bikes help to alleviate the drawbacks on the longer travel versions (excessive chain growth, excessive chainstay length, that sensation of growth when jumping or cornering)

Im hoping Norco has found a way to drop 4lbs compared to the Druid, and make it a bit more cost effective, but knowing Norco, itll prolly be 3lbs heavier...

8
1
Uncle Cliffy
Posts
377
Joined
3/11/2010
Location
Medford, OR US
9/13/2023 6:09pm
Onawalk wrote:
Theres more to it than simply pivot location in terms of the bike pedalling well, thats a generalization that doesnt really hold up.  You can make...

Theres more to it than simply pivot location in terms of the bike pedalling well, thats a generalization that doesnt really hold up.  You can make a HP bike pedal as well or better than a non-HP bike (lets be honest, theres no "traditional" bike here for arguments sake) and when we are talking about HP bikes, we are talking about the seemingly more prevelant HP idler equipped bikes.  A horst link, or VPP bike can be built to have a high virtual pivot, and not rely on an idler, but theres a whole other differnet set of challenges

The HP and idler allow the designer to separate the different forces more easily, to isolate different aspects of the suspension design (like a 6 bar, with less complexity, or maybe just different). 

The Druid climbs well, loads of traction, and is very predictable, eats rough stuff like no other short travel bike I've ridden (cause if you took the rearward growth, of about 18mm, it might actually be closer to a 150mm bike)  in doing so, the pedalling "platform" arrives quicker than if it was a Sight with 150mm travel lets say.  So theres a sense of spritelyness, or urgency to it when you do pedal it around.  Think of it like a bike that "feels" fast (short travel, maybe tighter geo) but when it gets hairy feels like a 150ish bike (longer WB, eats chunder)

I also think that the short travel versions of these bikes help to alleviate the drawbacks on the longer travel versions (excessive chain growth, excessive chainstay length, that sensation of growth when jumping or cornering)

Im hoping Norco has found a way to drop 4lbs compared to the Druid, and make it a bit more cost effective, but knowing Norco, itll prolly be 3lbs heavier...

It’s interesting what you’re saying here concerning the Optic and Sight redesign. Technically, the redesign won’t be much different than they are now. Definitely not like a Forbidden… And yes, with the idler they will definitely be a little heavier than they were. Wink

1
9/13/2023 6:32pm

I have not ridden a high pivot bike personally but several of my buddies who spent a few seasons on them have switched back to a more “conventional” suspension layout. The bit of extra maintenance with the idler and the less efficient climbing were the main factors.
 

Also jumping up in travel with little downsides on current gen bikes didn’t hurt either. 

9/13/2023 9:12pm
metadave wrote:
It's not really like that older slayer and it's not really vpp is all I'll say. Seatpost shouldn't be any worse than any other current bike...

It's not really like that older slayer and it's not really vpp is all I'll say. Seatpost shouldn't be any worse than any other current bike with low mounted shocks like a Specialized or Santa Cruz.

Jvhowube wrote:
As an owner of current Altitude, will be curious to see if they can retain some of its characteristics with the complete suspension redesign.  This is...

As an owner of current Altitude, will be curious to see if they can retain some of its characteristics with the complete suspension redesign.  This is the best bike I've ever owned, and probably won't be selling it anytime soon.  Not sure there was much more for them to do with this platform though - a stepwise upgrade would've seen potentially beefier tubes for increased stiffness and a swat box and... that's about it.  Not a good way to get people to buy your bike I guess.

I'd like to see a slacker head angle.  I have '21 Altitude and a '22 Instinct/Altitude Powerplay and prefer the slacker head angle of the Powerplay with the same reach.  I wouldn't complain if they brought over the mid-high pivot design of the Powerplay bikes either. 

9/13/2023 9:36pm
I'd like to see a slacker head angle.  I have '21 Altitude and a '22 Instinct/Altitude Powerplay and prefer the slacker head angle of the Powerplay...

I'd like to see a slacker head angle.  I have '21 Altitude and a '22 Instinct/Altitude Powerplay and prefer the slacker head angle of the Powerplay with the same reach.  I wouldn't complain if they brought over the mid-high pivot design of the Powerplay bikes either. 

We used to put the Altitude in high and use an angle set, about 480 reach on a large with 63.8 ish i believe.

Still to this day, ive not ridden anther bike as good as the altitude.

1
Onawalk
Posts
344
Joined
7/5/2021
Location
CA
9/13/2023 10:07pm
Onawalk wrote:
Theres more to it than simply pivot location in terms of the bike pedalling well, thats a generalization that doesnt really hold up.  You can make...

Theres more to it than simply pivot location in terms of the bike pedalling well, thats a generalization that doesnt really hold up.  You can make a HP bike pedal as well or better than a non-HP bike (lets be honest, theres no "traditional" bike here for arguments sake) and when we are talking about HP bikes, we are talking about the seemingly more prevelant HP idler equipped bikes.  A horst link, or VPP bike can be built to have a high virtual pivot, and not rely on an idler, but theres a whole other differnet set of challenges

The HP and idler allow the designer to separate the different forces more easily, to isolate different aspects of the suspension design (like a 6 bar, with less complexity, or maybe just different). 

The Druid climbs well, loads of traction, and is very predictable, eats rough stuff like no other short travel bike I've ridden (cause if you took the rearward growth, of about 18mm, it might actually be closer to a 150mm bike)  in doing so, the pedalling "platform" arrives quicker than if it was a Sight with 150mm travel lets say.  So theres a sense of spritelyness, or urgency to it when you do pedal it around.  Think of it like a bike that "feels" fast (short travel, maybe tighter geo) but when it gets hairy feels like a 150ish bike (longer WB, eats chunder)

I also think that the short travel versions of these bikes help to alleviate the drawbacks on the longer travel versions (excessive chain growth, excessive chainstay length, that sensation of growth when jumping or cornering)

Im hoping Norco has found a way to drop 4lbs compared to the Druid, and make it a bit more cost effective, but knowing Norco, itll prolly be 3lbs heavier...

It’s interesting what you’re saying here concerning the Optic and Sight redesign. Technically, the redesign won’t be much different than they are now. Definitely not like...

It’s interesting what you’re saying here concerning the Optic and Sight redesign. Technically, the redesign won’t be much different than they are now. Definitely not like a Forbidden… And yes, with the idler they will definitely be a little heavier than they were. Wink

The Druid V2, and Range are essentially just flipped Horst link bikes.  Same same, just upside down...

2
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