This, i think, is actually a moto-component. Obviously, there’s no problem to figure out how to mount it on a mtb. Mic Williams and his buddies...
This, i think, is actually a moto-component. Obviously, there’s no problem to figure out how to mount it on a mtb. Mic Williams and his buddies at Trinity think pretty open-mindedly and do come out with some pretty neat solutions for their bikes (and not only theirs, actually!).
Yes, as written in description, showa old school steering damper as used by Ricky Carmichael
It's not really like that older slayer and it's not really vpp is all I'll say. Seatpost shouldn't be any worse than any other current bike...
It's not really like that older slayer and it's not really vpp is all I'll say. Seatpost shouldn't be any worse than any other current bike with low mounted shocks like a Specialized or Santa Cruz.
As an owner of current Altitude, will be curious to see if they can retain some of its characteristics with the complete suspension redesign. This is the best bike I've ever owned, and probably won't be selling it anytime soon. Not sure there was much more for them to do with this platform though - a stepwise upgrade would've seen potentially beefier tubes for increased stiffness and a swat box and... that's about it. Not a good way to get people to buy your bike I guess.
why are people, in general, afraid of high-pivots? don't like it, don't buy a norco? there's literally hundreds of options nowadays with pretty much the same geometry
But don't worry if you love the current Optic and just want another one of them I'd guess they have stock of them to keep on selling. Everyone has overstock to sell.
Am I closed minded because I'm skeptical on the benefit of HP on shorter travel bikes?
Heres my take on it, if youre building a short travel bike, thats not intended primarily for XC riding/racing, a HP makes a tonne of sense.
You still get the added benefit of a "platform" earlier in the travel, which can feel more sprightly and responsive, but with additional bump eating capabilities. Case in point would be the Forbiedden Druid past and present.
There is a portion of riders who arent interested in the steepest and deepest, but still ride hard enough on chundery trails that this makes sense.
It also allows you to more accurately separate braking and body forces from the suspension kinematics.
This, i think, is actually a moto-component. Obviously, there’s no problem to figure out how to mount it on a mtb. Mic Williams and his buddies...
This, i think, is actually a moto-component. Obviously, there’s no problem to figure out how to mount it on a mtb. Mic Williams and his buddies at Trinity think pretty open-mindedly and do come out with some pretty neat solutions for their bikes (and not only theirs, actually!).
Yep, straight off a Honda CRF250/450R, had one on my 2011 and they definitely work well, adjustable too. Very clever integration by Mic. It would exude some force so that mount may need some beefing up IMO, but very clever.
do you ride the sort of terrain that they might excel on regularly?
I remember a couple months ago you were partially predicting a step back from HP bikes, and since then there has been a couple of notable releases. Not sure I understand your reluctance to them.
The carbon Fluid slots into replace the Optic.
But don't worry if you love the current Optic and just want another one of them I'd guess...
The carbon Fluid slots into replace the Optic.
But don't worry if you love the current Optic and just want another one of them I'd guess they have stock of them to keep on selling. Everyone has overstock to sell.
Spent some time on the Optic, love it, really wanted one, looking forward to the HP version.
Spent a weekend on a Fluid, wasnt the same, tried my hardest to like it, wasnt for me. The Sight felt like a much better bike.
Have you ridden an HP short travel bike?
do you ride the sort of terrain that they might excel on regularly?
I remember a couple months...
Have you ridden an HP short travel bike?
do you ride the sort of terrain that they might excel on regularly?
I remember a couple months ago you were partially predicting a step back from HP bikes, and since then there has been a couple of notable releases. Not sure I understand your reluctance to them.
People say the high pivot makes a short travel bike feel longer. Why not just use a longer travel bike? a 130mm rear 150mm front high pivot won't pedal as well as a 160/160 traditional bike, and capability (I didn't say performance, thats even more subjective) will be hypothetically comparable if the hype is true.
Have you ridden an HP short travel bike?
do you ride the sort of terrain that they might excel on regularly?
I remember a couple months...
Have you ridden an HP short travel bike?
do you ride the sort of terrain that they might excel on regularly?
I remember a couple months ago you were partially predicting a step back from HP bikes, and since then there has been a couple of notable releases. Not sure I understand your reluctance to them.
People say the high pivot makes a short travel bike feel longer. Why not just use a longer travel bike? a 130mm rear 150mm front high...
People say the high pivot makes a short travel bike feel longer. Why not just use a longer travel bike? a 130mm rear 150mm front high pivot won't pedal as well as a 160/160 traditional bike, and capability (I didn't say performance, thats even more subjective) will be hypothetically comparable if the hype is true.
What makes you think a short travel HP won't pedal as well as a longer travel traditional? I don't know pedaling kinematics well enough to know, but I do know the idlers don't cause that much drag unless you were putting a REALLY big day in.
Have you ridden an HP short travel bike?
do you ride the sort of terrain that they might excel on regularly?
I remember a couple months...
Have you ridden an HP short travel bike?
do you ride the sort of terrain that they might excel on regularly?
I remember a couple months ago you were partially predicting a step back from HP bikes, and since then there has been a couple of notable releases. Not sure I understand your reluctance to them.
People say the high pivot makes a short travel bike feel longer. Why not just use a longer travel bike? a 130mm rear 150mm front high...
People say the high pivot makes a short travel bike feel longer. Why not just use a longer travel bike? a 130mm rear 150mm front high pivot won't pedal as well as a 160/160 traditional bike, and capability (I didn't say performance, thats even more subjective) will be hypothetically comparable if the hype is true.
Theres more to it than simply pivot location in terms of the bike pedalling well, thats a generalization that doesnt really hold up. You can make a HP bike pedal as well or better than a non-HP bike (lets be honest, theres no "traditional" bike here for arguments sake) and when we are talking about HP bikes, we are talking about the seemingly more prevelant HP idler equipped bikes. A horst link, or VPP bike can be built to have a high virtual pivot, and not rely on an idler, but theres a whole other differnet set of challenges
The HP and idler allow the designer to separate the different forces more easily, to isolate different aspects of the suspension design (like a 6 bar, with less complexity, or maybe just different).
The Druid climbs well, loads of traction, and is very predictable, eats rough stuff like no other short travel bike I've ridden (cause if you took the rearward growth, of about 18mm, it might actually be closer to a 150mm bike) in doing so, the pedalling "platform" arrives quicker than if it was a Sight with 150mm travel lets say. So theres a sense of spritelyness, or urgency to it when you do pedal it around. Think of it like a bike that "feels" fast (short travel, maybe tighter geo) but when it gets hairy feels like a 150ish bike (longer WB, eats chunder)
I also think that the short travel versions of these bikes help to alleviate the drawbacks on the longer travel versions (excessive chain growth, excessive chainstay length, that sensation of growth when jumping or cornering)
Im hoping Norco has found a way to drop 4lbs compared to the Druid, and make it a bit more cost effective, but knowing Norco, itll prolly be 3lbs heavier...
Theres more to it than simply pivot location in terms of the bike pedalling well, thats a generalization that doesnt really hold up. You can make...
Theres more to it than simply pivot location in terms of the bike pedalling well, thats a generalization that doesnt really hold up. You can make a HP bike pedal as well or better than a non-HP bike (lets be honest, theres no "traditional" bike here for arguments sake) and when we are talking about HP bikes, we are talking about the seemingly more prevelant HP idler equipped bikes. A horst link, or VPP bike can be built to have a high virtual pivot, and not rely on an idler, but theres a whole other differnet set of challenges
The HP and idler allow the designer to separate the different forces more easily, to isolate different aspects of the suspension design (like a 6 bar, with less complexity, or maybe just different).
The Druid climbs well, loads of traction, and is very predictable, eats rough stuff like no other short travel bike I've ridden (cause if you took the rearward growth, of about 18mm, it might actually be closer to a 150mm bike) in doing so, the pedalling "platform" arrives quicker than if it was a Sight with 150mm travel lets say. So theres a sense of spritelyness, or urgency to it when you do pedal it around. Think of it like a bike that "feels" fast (short travel, maybe tighter geo) but when it gets hairy feels like a 150ish bike (longer WB, eats chunder)
I also think that the short travel versions of these bikes help to alleviate the drawbacks on the longer travel versions (excessive chain growth, excessive chainstay length, that sensation of growth when jumping or cornering)
Im hoping Norco has found a way to drop 4lbs compared to the Druid, and make it a bit more cost effective, but knowing Norco, itll prolly be 3lbs heavier...
It’s interesting what you’re saying here concerning the Optic and Sight redesign. Technically, the redesign won’t be much different than they are now. Definitely not like a Forbidden… And yes, with the idler they will definitely be a little heavier than they were.
I have not ridden a high pivot bike personally but several of my buddies who spent a few seasons on them have switched back to a more “conventional” suspension layout. The bit of extra maintenance with the idler and the less efficient climbing were the main factors.
Also jumping up in travel with little downsides on current gen bikes didn’t hurt either.
It's not really like that older slayer and it's not really vpp is all I'll say. Seatpost shouldn't be any worse than any other current bike...
It's not really like that older slayer and it's not really vpp is all I'll say. Seatpost shouldn't be any worse than any other current bike with low mounted shocks like a Specialized or Santa Cruz.
As an owner of current Altitude, will be curious to see if they can retain some of its characteristics with the complete suspension redesign. This is...
As an owner of current Altitude, will be curious to see if they can retain some of its characteristics with the complete suspension redesign. This is the best bike I've ever owned, and probably won't be selling it anytime soon. Not sure there was much more for them to do with this platform though - a stepwise upgrade would've seen potentially beefier tubes for increased stiffness and a swat box and... that's about it. Not a good way to get people to buy your bike I guess.
I'd like to see a slacker head angle. I have '21 Altitude and a '22 Instinct/Altitude Powerplay and prefer the slacker head angle of the Powerplay with the same reach. I wouldn't complain if they brought over the mid-high pivot design of the Powerplay bikes either.
I'd like to see a slacker head angle. I have '21 Altitude and a '22 Instinct/Altitude Powerplay and prefer the slacker head angle of the Powerplay...
I'd like to see a slacker head angle. I have '21 Altitude and a '22 Instinct/Altitude Powerplay and prefer the slacker head angle of the Powerplay with the same reach. I wouldn't complain if they brought over the mid-high pivot design of the Powerplay bikes either.
We used to put the Altitude in high and use an angle set, about 480 reach on a large with 63.8 ish i believe.
Still to this day, ive not ridden anther bike as good as the altitude.
Theres more to it than simply pivot location in terms of the bike pedalling well, thats a generalization that doesnt really hold up. You can make...
Theres more to it than simply pivot location in terms of the bike pedalling well, thats a generalization that doesnt really hold up. You can make a HP bike pedal as well or better than a non-HP bike (lets be honest, theres no "traditional" bike here for arguments sake) and when we are talking about HP bikes, we are talking about the seemingly more prevelant HP idler equipped bikes. A horst link, or VPP bike can be built to have a high virtual pivot, and not rely on an idler, but theres a whole other differnet set of challenges
The HP and idler allow the designer to separate the different forces more easily, to isolate different aspects of the suspension design (like a 6 bar, with less complexity, or maybe just different).
The Druid climbs well, loads of traction, and is very predictable, eats rough stuff like no other short travel bike I've ridden (cause if you took the rearward growth, of about 18mm, it might actually be closer to a 150mm bike) in doing so, the pedalling "platform" arrives quicker than if it was a Sight with 150mm travel lets say. So theres a sense of spritelyness, or urgency to it when you do pedal it around. Think of it like a bike that "feels" fast (short travel, maybe tighter geo) but when it gets hairy feels like a 150ish bike (longer WB, eats chunder)
I also think that the short travel versions of these bikes help to alleviate the drawbacks on the longer travel versions (excessive chain growth, excessive chainstay length, that sensation of growth when jumping or cornering)
Im hoping Norco has found a way to drop 4lbs compared to the Druid, and make it a bit more cost effective, but knowing Norco, itll prolly be 3lbs heavier...
It’s interesting what you’re saying here concerning the Optic and Sight redesign. Technically, the redesign won’t be much different than they are now. Definitely not like...
It’s interesting what you’re saying here concerning the Optic and Sight redesign. Technically, the redesign won’t be much different than they are now. Definitely not like a Forbidden… And yes, with the idler they will definitely be a little heavier than they were.
The Druid V2, and Range are essentially just flipped Horst link bikes. Same same, just upside down...
I have not ridden a high pivot bike personally but several of my buddies who spent a few seasons on them have switched back to a...
I have not ridden a high pivot bike personally but several of my buddies who spent a few seasons on them have switched back to a more “conventional” suspension layout. The bit of extra maintenance with the idler and the less efficient climbing were the main factors.
Also jumping up in travel with little downsides on current gen bikes didn’t hurt either.
Im not entirely sure what is meant by "traditional" design. Are you trying they have moved away from a HP/idler bike to a different suspension platform?
Have you ridden an HP short travel bike?
do you ride the sort of terrain that they might excel on regularly?
I remember a couple months...
Have you ridden an HP short travel bike?
do you ride the sort of terrain that they might excel on regularly?
I remember a couple months ago you were partially predicting a step back from HP bikes, and since then there has been a couple of notable releases. Not sure I understand your reluctance to them.
Have not ridden one at all (sadly - test bikes in Slovenia are hard to come by, even harder in XL).
Pretty sure we have the terrain where a HP bike would work quite nicely.
Development/release cycles lag behind the actual state on the market. As for a few notable release, which categories? I'll gladly eat my hat if everything goes high pivot in a few years (wouldn't be the first hat, it would quite likely be a tasty one), but considering how many DH bikes were tested with a high pivot and have reverted to a classic layout... I just don't see it. As with HP and shorter travel bikes, the main reservation I have with is the added efficiency losses and overall complexity which I suspect could drive people away.
One way I could see more proliferation in HP bikes would be the DW system, but sadly that one is patented and I doubt will see much use in the world until the patent runs out.
Have you ridden an HP short travel bike?
do you ride the sort of terrain that they might excel on regularly?
I remember a couple months...
Have you ridden an HP short travel bike?
do you ride the sort of terrain that they might excel on regularly?
I remember a couple months ago you were partially predicting a step back from HP bikes, and since then there has been a couple of notable releases. Not sure I understand your reluctance to them.
Have not ridden one at all (sadly - test bikes in Slovenia are hard to come by, even harder in XL).
Pretty sure we have the...
Have not ridden one at all (sadly - test bikes in Slovenia are hard to come by, even harder in XL).
Pretty sure we have the terrain where a HP bike would work quite nicely.
Development/release cycles lag behind the actual state on the market. As for a few notable release, which categories? I'll gladly eat my hat if everything goes high pivot in a few years (wouldn't be the first hat, it would quite likely be a tasty one), but considering how many DH bikes were tested with a high pivot and have reverted to a classic layout... I just don't see it. As with HP and shorter travel bikes, the main reservation I have with is the added efficiency losses and overall complexity which I suspect could drive people away.
One way I could see more proliferation in HP bikes would be the DW system, but sadly that one is patented and I doubt will see much use in the world until the patent runs out.
You should test ride a Druid V2. Efficiency losses are well compensated with the technical climbing ability. The bike is just less slowed down compared to a horst link while pedaling flat rooty/rocky paths. And I don't even feel the efficiency losses tbh since there is no need for a lower guide. Complexity is not that high either with a bombproof idler system.
New optic. Heard from my LBS that it and the incoming sight are HP.
New optic. Heard from my LBS that it and the incoming sight are HP.
Modular lower shock mount. I wonder if it's only to adjust kinematics or if they're trying to use same front triangle for both optic and sight, w/ different shock mount and longer stroke shock? If combined with head angle adjustability the drawbacks for doing it this way lessened, but still not ideal. Seems big and clunky for just a kinematics adjuster. Or maybe it's for converting between mullet and 29?
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CxIDXG7ssPh/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet&igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
Lapierre Spicy(?) video!
The pic I posted is from their website
Yes, as written in description, showa old school steering damper as used by Ricky Carmichael
I would say any dropper post is no go in this frame lol,very similar to commencal furious in front triangle shape.
11 days late buuuuut
WTB needs to bring back the Judge/Verdict in the thick sidewall/longer lasting tread compound. Had a set on my park bike, best things ever.
As an owner of current Altitude, will be curious to see if they can retain some of its characteristics with the complete suspension redesign. This is the best bike I've ever owned, and probably won't be selling it anytime soon. Not sure there was much more for them to do with this platform though - a stepwise upgrade would've seen potentially beefier tubes for increased stiffness and a swat box and... that's about it. Not a good way to get people to buy your bike I guess.
New optic. Heard from my LBS that it and the incoming sight are HP.
Am I closed minded because I'm skeptical on the benefit of HP on shorter travel bikes?
No.
why are people, in general, afraid of high-pivots? don't like it, don't buy a norco? there's literally hundreds of options nowadays with pretty much the same geometry
The carbon Fluid slots into replace the Optic.
But don't worry if you love the current Optic and just want another one of them I'd guess they have stock of them to keep on selling. Everyone has overstock to sell.
Heres my take on it, if youre building a short travel bike, thats not intended primarily for XC riding/racing, a HP makes a tonne of sense.
You still get the added benefit of a "platform" earlier in the travel, which can feel more sprightly and responsive, but with additional bump eating capabilities. Case in point would be the Forbiedden Druid past and present.
There is a portion of riders who arent interested in the steepest and deepest, but still ride hard enough on chundery trails that this makes sense.
It also allows you to more accurately separate braking and body forces from the suspension kinematics.
I've been eagerly awaiting the HP Optic
Yep, straight off a Honda CRF250/450R, had one on my 2011 and they definitely work well, adjustable too. Very clever integration by Mic. It would exude some force so that mount may need some beefing up IMO, but very clever.
Have you ridden an HP short travel bike?
do you ride the sort of terrain that they might excel on regularly?
I remember a couple months ago you were partially predicting a step back from HP bikes, and since then there has been a couple of notable releases. Not sure I understand your reluctance to them.
Spent some time on the Optic, love it, really wanted one, looking forward to the HP version.
Spent a weekend on a Fluid, wasnt the same, tried my hardest to like it, wasnt for me. The Sight felt like a much better bike.
People say the high pivot makes a short travel bike feel longer. Why not just use a longer travel bike? a 130mm rear 150mm front high pivot won't pedal as well as a 160/160 traditional bike, and capability (I didn't say performance, thats even more subjective) will be hypothetically comparable if the hype is true.
What makes you think a short travel HP won't pedal as well as a longer travel traditional? I don't know pedaling kinematics well enough to know, but I do know the idlers don't cause that much drag unless you were putting a REALLY big day in.
Theres more to it than simply pivot location in terms of the bike pedalling well, thats a generalization that doesnt really hold up. You can make a HP bike pedal as well or better than a non-HP bike (lets be honest, theres no "traditional" bike here for arguments sake) and when we are talking about HP bikes, we are talking about the seemingly more prevelant HP idler equipped bikes. A horst link, or VPP bike can be built to have a high virtual pivot, and not rely on an idler, but theres a whole other differnet set of challenges
The HP and idler allow the designer to separate the different forces more easily, to isolate different aspects of the suspension design (like a 6 bar, with less complexity, or maybe just different).
The Druid climbs well, loads of traction, and is very predictable, eats rough stuff like no other short travel bike I've ridden (cause if you took the rearward growth, of about 18mm, it might actually be closer to a 150mm bike) in doing so, the pedalling "platform" arrives quicker than if it was a Sight with 150mm travel lets say. So theres a sense of spritelyness, or urgency to it when you do pedal it around. Think of it like a bike that "feels" fast (short travel, maybe tighter geo) but when it gets hairy feels like a 150ish bike (longer WB, eats chunder)
I also think that the short travel versions of these bikes help to alleviate the drawbacks on the longer travel versions (excessive chain growth, excessive chainstay length, that sensation of growth when jumping or cornering)
Im hoping Norco has found a way to drop 4lbs compared to the Druid, and make it a bit more cost effective, but knowing Norco, itll prolly be 3lbs heavier...
It’s interesting what you’re saying here concerning the Optic and Sight redesign. Technically, the redesign won’t be much different than they are now. Definitely not like a Forbidden… And yes, with the idler they will definitely be a little heavier than they were.
I have not ridden a high pivot bike personally but several of my buddies who spent a few seasons on them have switched back to a more “conventional” suspension layout. The bit of extra maintenance with the idler and the less efficient climbing were the main factors.
Also jumping up in travel with little downsides on current gen bikes didn’t hurt either.
I'd like to see a slacker head angle. I have '21 Altitude and a '22 Instinct/Altitude Powerplay and prefer the slacker head angle of the Powerplay with the same reach. I wouldn't complain if they brought over the mid-high pivot design of the Powerplay bikes either.
We used to put the Altitude in high and use an angle set, about 480 reach on a large with 63.8 ish i believe.
Still to this day, ive not ridden anther bike as good as the altitude.
The Druid V2, and Range are essentially just flipped Horst link bikes. Same same, just upside down...
Im not entirely sure what is meant by "traditional" design. Are you trying they have moved away from a HP/idler bike to a different suspension platform?
The HP/idler comes in different flavours
Have not ridden one at all (sadly - test bikes in Slovenia are hard to come by, even harder in XL).
Pretty sure we have the terrain where a HP bike would work quite nicely.
Development/release cycles lag behind the actual state on the market. As for a few notable release, which categories? I'll gladly eat my hat if everything goes high pivot in a few years (wouldn't be the first hat, it would quite likely be a tasty one), but considering how many DH bikes were tested with a high pivot and have reverted to a classic layout... I just don't see it. As with HP and shorter travel bikes, the main reservation I have with is the added efficiency losses and overall complexity which I suspect could drive people away.
One way I could see more proliferation in HP bikes would be the DW system, but sadly that one is patented and I doubt will see much use in the world until the patent runs out.
My god stop posting u less it’s a tech rumor
You should test ride a Druid V2. Efficiency losses are well compensated with the technical climbing ability. The bike is just less slowed down compared to a horst link while pedaling flat rooty/rocky paths. And I don't even feel the efficiency losses tbh since there is no need for a lower guide. Complexity is not that high either with a bombproof idler system.
Can we get back to the topic?
New Marin San Quentin, now with 29" wheels.
https://www.marinbikes.com/es_es/bikes/2024-san-quentin-29-3#specificat…
Modular lower shock mount. I wonder if it's only to adjust kinematics or if they're trying to use same front triangle for both optic and sight, w/ different shock mount and longer stroke shock? If combined with head angle adjustability the drawbacks for doing it this way lessened, but still not ideal. Seems big and clunky for just a kinematics adjuster. Or maybe it's for converting between mullet and 29?