MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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TannerVal
Posts
128
Joined
2/6/2016
Location
Hampton, NH, USA
6/30/2023 11:43am
TannerVal wrote:
Just out of curiosity what do you think the main benefit of a 12° (or just more backsweep than normal) is? I’ve seen guys like Paul...

Just out of curiosity what do you think the main benefit of a 12° (or just more backsweep than normal) is? I’ve seen guys like Paul Aston and the NSMB guys preach about it but can’t really see how it would be that game changing. Is it just personal preference or do you believe there’s some performance gains made using more sweep than standard.

Primoz wrote:
I've mentioned this before (I think it was in the cockpit thread?) but I swapped out a 40 mm Turbine R stem and a 35 mm...

I've mentioned this before (I think it was in the cockpit thread?) but I swapped out a 40 mm Turbine R stem and a 35 mm rise Turbine R handlebar (5/8 deg sweep) for an aliexpress 35 mm stem and a 55 mm rise, 8/12 deg sweep bar (and moved a 20 mm spacer from above to under the stem). While the riding has improved (due to the bars being higher), because of the much reduced effective reach I'm riding much more off the back of the bike, which I feel is a negative. And I fear I'm more of a praying mantis than before, I'm worried a higher backsweep angles your elbows inwards.

I haven't done back to back testing yet, I'm saving it for a new bike, but this backswept bar needs a test with a 50 mm stem and/or I need to go back to a less swept bar.

Maybe move this debate to the bar height topic and rename said topic to 'general cockpit discussion'?

veefour wrote:
Done. Although the title has been censored, Vital don't seem to like the word 'cockpit'. Now back to tech rumours, has anyone heard anything about GT...

Done. Although the title has been censored, Vital don't seem to like the word 'cockpit'.Laughing

Now back to tech rumours, has anyone heard anything about GT strengthening their DH frames? Asking on behalf of Roger Viera.

I feel like if Brage can ride one, roger shouldn’t be worried. Unless he broke one at VDS since his last instagram story of him riding the bike im not really sure what you’re referring to.

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chriskief
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793
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Location
New York, NY, USA
Fantasy
6/30/2023 11:49am
TannerVal wrote:
I feel like if Brage can ride one, roger shouldn’t be worried. Unless he broke one at VDS since his last instagram story of him riding...

I feel like if Brage can ride one, roger shouldn’t be worried. Unless he broke one at VDS since his last instagram story of him riding the bike im not really sure what you’re referring to.

Ummm… check the other site.

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TannerVal
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128
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Location
Hampton, NH, USA
6/30/2023 11:52am
TannerVal wrote:
I feel like if Brage can ride one, roger shouldn’t be worried. Unless he broke one at VDS since his last instagram story of him riding...

I feel like if Brage can ride one, roger shouldn’t be worried. Unless he broke one at VDS since his last instagram story of him riding the bike im not really sure what you’re referring to.

chriskief wrote:

Ummm… check the other site.

Woof…Spoke too soon

hope Roger’s alright after that. Bummed that happened to him, seems like a great dude trying his butt off to make it to the top.

6
metadave
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1263
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Revelstoke, BC, CA
Fantasy
6/30/2023 10:44pm

Didn't someone snap a Gambler a week or two ago?

5
krabo83
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733
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12/26/2017
Location
AT
7/1/2023 12:21am
metadave wrote:

Didn't someone snap a Gambler a week or two ago?

yeah, but that gambler made contact with a tree, different scenario than snaping a frame while riding it like it's intended.

1
TimBud
Posts
544
Joined
2/29/2012
Location
GB
7/1/2023 2:15am

Paul Aston’s new Egerie Radical+
 

 

AF117D8E-8413-4804-B9D2-CB8589C4BFCF

 

3
7/1/2023 2:48am
TimBud wrote:
Paul Aston’s new Egerie Radical+      

Paul Aston’s new Egerie Radical+
 

 

AF117D8E-8413-4804-B9D2-CB8589C4BFCF

 

Looks to be based off the old Sunn DH race bike that he owns

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TimBud
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544
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Location
GB
7/1/2023 4:39am

Looks to be based off the old Sunn DH race bike that he owns

Yeah. The Radical+ Smile

2
metadave
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Revelstoke, BC, CA
Fantasy
7/1/2023 6:09am
metadave wrote:

Didn't someone snap a Gambler a week or two ago?

krabo83 wrote:

yeah, but that gambler made contact with a tree, different scenario than snaping a frame while riding it like it's intended.

Fair point

2
sspomer
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6332
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Location
Boise, ID, USA
Fantasy
7/1/2023 8:43am

val di sole bike abuse video for potential sleuthing

 

 

29
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235
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Location
AT
7/1/2023 8:57am

Looks to be based off the old Sunn DH race bike that he owns

TimBud wrote:
Yeah. The Radical+ 

Yeah. The Radical+ Smile

probably going to have 900mm reach and 1200mm chainstays 

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TimBud
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544
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Location
GB
7/1/2023 9:04am

Looks to be based off the old Sunn DH race bike that he owns

TimBud wrote:
Yeah. The Radical+ 

Yeah. The Radical+ Smile

29 wrote:

probably going to have 900mm reach and 1200mm chainstays 

If it works for him thats his choice… pretty sure he’s a better rider than the vast majority of us in here.

Likewise I know what size of bike I like and I’m not going to ram it down everyones throat and get upset like some folk in here do. 
 

3
Big Bird
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2345
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Location
Oceano, CA, USA
7/1/2023 11:12am
TimBud wrote:
Paul Aston’s new Egerie Radical+      

Paul Aston’s new Egerie Radical+
 

 

AF117D8E-8413-4804-B9D2-CB8589C4BFCF

 

Isn't this what people here have speculated is under the cover on the new Spec?

1
Primoz
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4680
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Location
SI
7/1/2023 11:28am

No. 

4
7/1/2023 1:13pm

The new Demo will most likely be a regular horst link with an additional link under the BB to compress the shock, that looks like a 2 generations old Commencal after growth hormone therapy (nothing wrong with that, I bet it goes fast)

2
Fred_Pop
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Location
FR
7/1/2023 1:39pm
The new Demo will most likely be a regular horst link with an additional link under the BB to compress the shock, that looks like a...

The new Demo will most likely be a regular horst link with an additional link under the BB to compress the shock, that looks like a 2 generations old Commencal after growth hormone therapy (nothing wrong with that, I bet it goes fast)

Seeing as Max Commencal created Sunn that makes total sense.

1
7/1/2023 11:40pm Edited Date/Time 7/1/2023 11:46pm

Well, they’ve probably found something new that allows the bike to be super fast and planted, and keep up with the high-pivot bikes on the gnarly stuff, that’s why they covered it up. 
Something that’s been bugging me for some time now: why does the Cube HP bike need a floating brake arm? Being a horst-link and especially a highish-pivot one, aren’t the brake forces almost completely separated from the suspension and therefore there’s no need for this?  

AgrAde
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Location
., BV
7/2/2023 12:07am

Horst link bikes generally have low anti-rise because the virtual pivot point is usually quite far forward. But raising the pivot means adding anti-rise. I expect that the AR on a mid-pivot horst link bike is still lower in general than a single pivot/VPP/DW bike where the main pivot, real or virtual, is near the top of the chainring through most of the stroke. Perhaps they want to keep the very low AR braking feel of a typical horst while also making use of a higher pivot.

1
Primoz
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4680
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Location
SI
7/2/2023 12:22am

The brake link allows you to tune the antirise if done properly. 

1
7/2/2023 1:13am

Is that much different compared with a dirt bike rear brake mount? I guess this would make for good alignment granted frames are aligned in the first place 

1
7/2/2023 1:45am Edited Date/Time 7/2/2023 1:46am
Is that much different compared with a dirt bike rear brake mount? I guess this would make for good alignment granted frames are aligned in the...

Is that much different compared with a dirt bike rear brake mount? I guess this would make for good alignment granted frames are aligned in the first place 

"granted frames are aligned in the first place" - yeah good luck with that, there is only a select few brands that have spot on alignment. Torque patterns are ment to help with such things but nobody pays any attention to that. 

one example of poor alignment at its poorest was trek with the current gen slash, between twisted rocker pivots, poor boring/molding(aligning) of the lower shock holes combined with the extremely poor lower shock bearings(alignment and depth) - the bearings used to just seize almost instantly -  not helped at all by the double trunnion shock cause horrid creaking and then the weld down the side of the downtube used to crack because of the stress, 
The non trunnion versions,(slash 7) never really seen the issues, and they have now moved back to a tradition std eyelet for both.
(both the carbon and alloy versions had the issue but the carbon didnt crack but randomly broke the rocker by the main bolt/nut on the non drive side)

Dont even get me started on the oval holes on transition frames lol

2
dolface
Posts
1715
Joined
10/26/2015
Location
USA
7/2/2023 7:16am
Well, they’ve probably found something new that allows the bike to be super fast and planted, and keep up with the high-pivot bikes on the gnarly...

Well, they’ve probably found something new that allows the bike to be super fast and planted, and keep up with the high-pivot bikes on the gnarly stuff, that’s why they covered it up. 
Something that’s been bugging me for some time now: why does the Cube HP bike need a floating brake arm? Being a horst-link and especially a highish-pivot one, aren’t the brake forces almost completely separated from the suspension and therefore there’s no need for this?  

I was wondering if it was a Danny thing more than a Cube thing as he also ran one on the Saracen for a while...

2
Jakub_G
Posts
384
Joined
8/7/2019
Location
SK
7/2/2023 10:00am
Well, they’ve probably found something new that allows the bike to be super fast and planted, and keep up with the high-pivot bikes on the gnarly...

Well, they’ve probably found something new that allows the bike to be super fast and planted, and keep up with the high-pivot bikes on the gnarly stuff, that’s why they covered it up. 
Something that’s been bugging me for some time now: why does the Cube HP bike need a floating brake arm? Being a horst-link and especially a highish-pivot one, aren’t the brake forces almost completely separated from the suspension and therefore there’s no need for this?  

dolface wrote:

I was wondering if it was a Danny thing more than a Cube thing as he also ran one on the Saracen for a while...

I would say it's development thing,as none of those arms are making it to the production 

Primoz
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4680
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
SI
7/2/2023 10:30am

The Saracen variant (the old one from Danny's days) were there to try things out. Confirmed by their designer on PB.

1
7/2/2023 12:22pm
AgrAde wrote:
Horst link bikes generally have low anti-rise because the virtual pivot point is usually quite far forward. But raising the pivot means adding anti-rise. I expect...

Horst link bikes generally have low anti-rise because the virtual pivot point is usually quite far forward. But raising the pivot means adding anti-rise. I expect that the AR on a mid-pivot horst link bike is still lower in general than a single pivot/VPP/DW bike where the main pivot, real or virtual, is near the top of the chainring through most of the stroke. Perhaps they want to keep the very low AR braking feel of a typical horst while also making use of a higher pivot.

There is a problem that exists with super low anti rise that’s always glossed over. If anti rise is too low, the whole bike pitches forward more dramatically under heavy braking. For example, personally I think the enduro has too little anti rise because when slamming on the brakes super hard the rear goes to full extension easier than I’d like. Combined with lots of compression on the fork, it results in the thing riding like it has super steep geo. It also will pitch forward a lot when trying to creep into steep things. On a whole the enduro is great bike and this issue is only in two particular scenarios, but it does show why on any bike, including Horst link, one might want to tune anti rise for a given track and not always to make it lower.

9
AgrAde
Posts
230
Joined
5/21/2015
Location
., BV
7/2/2023 7:20pm Edited Date/Time 7/2/2023 7:24pm
AgrAde wrote:
Horst link bikes generally have low anti-rise because the virtual pivot point is usually quite far forward. But raising the pivot means adding anti-rise. I expect...

Horst link bikes generally have low anti-rise because the virtual pivot point is usually quite far forward. But raising the pivot means adding anti-rise. I expect that the AR on a mid-pivot horst link bike is still lower in general than a single pivot/VPP/DW bike where the main pivot, real or virtual, is near the top of the chainring through most of the stroke. Perhaps they want to keep the very low AR braking feel of a typical horst while also making use of a higher pivot.

There is a problem that exists with super low anti rise that’s always glossed over. If anti rise is too low, the whole bike pitches forward...

There is a problem that exists with super low anti rise that’s always glossed over. If anti rise is too low, the whole bike pitches forward more dramatically under heavy braking. For example, personally I think the enduro has too little anti rise because when slamming on the brakes super hard the rear goes to full extension easier than I’d like. Combined with lots of compression on the fork, it results in the thing riding like it has super steep geo. It also will pitch forward a lot when trying to creep into steep things. On a whole the enduro is great bike and this issue is only in two particular scenarios, but it does show why on any bike, including Horst link, one might want to tune anti rise for a given track and not always to make it lower.

Yeah, I prefer high AR bikes (100+ %) and consider any issues with choppiness and harsh suspension under braking to be a damping setup issue more than a kinematics issue. The benefit of a rear end that squats/calms itself/slackens the bike under braking is pretty noticeable imo. And I've only noticed high AR ever feel bad when the bike had the rebound too slow or the bike was relying on a low speed climbing platform compression setting to provide support.

 

The general attitude towards AR though is that lower is better... So assumed that is what they were going for.

 

2
TimBud
Posts
544
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2/29/2012
Location
GB
7/2/2023 11:02pm

Ben Deakin has a new Focus

IMG 7764 0

 Whistling

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2
juliusk
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1/21/2021
Location
Clausthal-Zellerfeld, DE
7/2/2023 11:13pm
TimBud wrote:
Ben Deakin has a new Focus  

Ben Deakin has a new Focus

IMG 7764 0

 Whistling

More or less

8
brash
Posts
960
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4/24/2019
Location
AU
7/2/2023 11:19pm

That's the old Pon Holdings V10

 

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