For the bike with the alu bit replacing the shock, I'm more interested in the forces in play vs the carbon lay up. That can make for cracked bit real quick if parts were designed to move with a shock and are now suddenly fixed in place. I know I had a shock on an xc bike that loved brushing against my leg in tech sections when things got spicy and locking out in 2011 and I ended up cracking 3 times.
Those pivots and tubes are taking a lot more stress than they were ever designed for.
For the bike with the alu bit replacing the shock, I'm more interested in the forces in play vs the carbon lay up. That can make...
For the bike with the alu bit replacing the shock, I'm more interested in the forces in play vs the carbon lay up. That can make for cracked bit real quick if parts were designed to move with a shock and are now suddenly fixed in place. I know I had a shock on an xc bike that loved brushing against my leg in tech sections when things got spicy and locking out in 2011 and I ended up cracking 3 times.
Those pivots and tubes are taking a lot more stress than they were ever designed for.
Depends on if the lock out of the shock the frame is designed for has a blow off for hits above a certain force or not (do xc shocks have this?). If no blow off then it'd be the same as locked out and the frame should be designed for it. Either way I think it'd be fine for sponsored racers who really only need the frame to last a weekend, but perhaps less fine so for us normal people who expect a frame to last a few years.
Depends on if the lock out of the shock the frame is designed for has a blow off for hits above a certain force or not...
Depends on if the lock out of the shock the frame is designed for has a blow off for hits above a certain force or not (do xc shocks have this?). If no blow off then it'd be the same as locked out and the frame should be designed for it. Either way I think it'd be fine for sponsored racers who really only need the frame to last a weekend, but perhaps less fine so for us normal people who expect a frame to last a few years.
I’ve seen some companies use a similar piece of metal/pipe in place of the shock when doing fatigue and stress testing of frames, so you would think in those cases it would be fine.
I can’t imagine the frame would be designed to only survive with a shock in there that is pumped up to a certain pressure or with a certain blow off valve lockout?
it may however cause premature bearing or bushing wear etc.
For the bike with the alu bit replacing the shock, I'm more interested in the forces in play vs the carbon lay up. That can make...
For the bike with the alu bit replacing the shock, I'm more interested in the forces in play vs the carbon lay up. That can make for cracked bit real quick if parts were designed to move with a shock and are now suddenly fixed in place. I know I had a shock on an xc bike that loved brushing against my leg in tech sections when things got spicy and locking out in 2011 and I ended up cracking 3 times.
Those pivots and tubes are taking a lot more stress than they were ever designed for.
Just wondering if you clicked the link to read the article about it at all? James goes into a bit of detail about the piece, noting that it even looks to have more than one mounting option, couple more pics, etc.
Now this doesnt look like it was cooked up in a shed by a couple of hacks, so I dont think I'd be too concerned about the wear and tear on what is basically a factory team, in a World cup XC race. Theres definitely some thought put into creating this piece, and as noted in a previous comment, loads of fatigue testing goes into frame design with solid components to replace shocks.
What is interesting to me, is that there is no attempt to hide it, theres nothing inconspicuous about it at all, and the UCi is notorious for some silly rules. Even a coat of rattle can flat black would have done wonders to make it less noticable. Maybe even a RockShox sticker on it......
Was anyone else surprised by the the listed offset (54mm) on Ohlins special Edition "Race Crowns"? Or was that a typo and it is supposed to be 45mm?
Seems to go against the current ideology of slacker HTA's being paired with shorter offsets for descending and the assumption that longer offsets makes the steering "floppier". I experimented with a short (42mm) offset crown on my DH bike last year and thought it was more natural for cornering than the stock 52mm offset but I'm also not a WC pro...
Was anyone else surprised by the the listed offset (54mm) on Ohlins special Edition "Race Crowns"? Or was that a typo and it is supposed to...
Was anyone else surprised by the the listed offset (54mm) on Ohlins special Edition "Race Crowns"? Or was that a typo and it is supposed to be 45mm?
Seems to go against the current ideology of slacker HTA's being paired with shorter offsets for descending and the assumption that longer offsets makes the steering "floppier". I experimented with a short (42mm) offset crown on my DH bike last year and thought it was more natural for cornering than the stock 52mm offset but I'm also not a WC pro...
I believe ohlins offers 42 46 51 and 54
personally there is no right answer. Other than a longer offset I’ll use a longer stem and shorter a shorter stem. But either direction has positives and negatives and which one to go with is probably going to be determined by other variables that people are more selective about
Was anyone else surprised by the the listed offset (54mm) on Ohlins special Edition "Race Crowns"? Or was that a typo and it is supposed to...
Was anyone else surprised by the the listed offset (54mm) on Ohlins special Edition "Race Crowns"? Or was that a typo and it is supposed to be 45mm?
Seems to go against the current ideology of slacker HTA's being paired with shorter offsets for descending and the assumption that longer offsets makes the steering "floppier". I experimented with a short (42mm) offset crown on my DH bike last year and thought it was more natural for cornering than the stock 52mm offset but I'm also not a WC pro...
its all relative, stack height, how high your running the fork all matter as well. As a rule of thumb, don't place huge emphasis on what pro's run, they want a setup they are use to and is consistent for them, because they are going to go into a corner or berm at insane speed and just want the predictability so they can commit 100%. Its why they often don't swap bikes mid season etc.
Ohlins have a lot of aftermarket crowns for purchase so you can always swap easily
Looks like a new Saint crank on that new Phoenix, or is it just a sticker on some other model ? I can't figure out any other Shimano crank with that shape.
New Pivot phoenix, Reverting away from the Horizontal to a vertical shock layout - assuming itll look like the rest of pivots bikes like the firebird...
New Pivot phoenix, Reverting away from the Horizontal to a vertical shock layout - assuming itll look like the rest of pivots bikes like the firebird.
Looks like its a Lugged carbon prototype. - does anyone have any Info on this and who is making these frames? Spesh and pivot both have these now... is athertons making them some lugs?
i believe This was BK doing some Private solo testing in QT before the journey to Rotorua.
Was anyone else surprised by the the listed offset (54mm) on Ohlins special Edition "Race Crowns"? Or was that a typo and it is supposed to...
Was anyone else surprised by the the listed offset (54mm) on Ohlins special Edition "Race Crowns"? Or was that a typo and it is supposed to be 45mm?
Seems to go against the current ideology of slacker HTA's being paired with shorter offsets for descending and the assumption that longer offsets makes the steering "floppier". I experimented with a short (42mm) offset crown on my DH bike last year and thought it was more natural for cornering than the stock 52mm offset but I'm also not a WC pro...
I was also surprised by 54mm but I’d hope they’d make all the sizes. Also we have no clue if the 54mm is what the team actually uses. Could be different between riders.
I’m running 46mm with Ohlins and agreed, I like the stability and they feel more planted. I think it felt better on the Trek session, but now on the supreme v5, I may try the 51mm just to confirm.
For the bike with the alu bit replacing the shock, I'm more interested in the forces in play vs the carbon lay up. That can make...
For the bike with the alu bit replacing the shock, I'm more interested in the forces in play vs the carbon lay up. That can make for cracked bit real quick if parts were designed to move with a shock and are now suddenly fixed in place. I know I had a shock on an xc bike that loved brushing against my leg in tech sections when things got spicy and locking out in 2011 and I ended up cracking 3 times.
Those pivots and tubes are taking a lot more stress than they were ever designed for.
Just wondering if you clicked the link to read the article about it at all? James goes into a bit of detail about the piece, noting...
Just wondering if you clicked the link to read the article about it at all? James goes into a bit of detail about the piece, noting that it even looks to have more than one mounting option, couple more pics, etc.
Now this doesnt look like it was cooked up in a shed by a couple of hacks, so I dont think I'd be too concerned about the wear and tear on what is basically a factory team, in a World cup XC race. Theres definitely some thought put into creating this piece, and as noted in a previous comment, loads of fatigue testing goes into frame design with solid components to replace shocks.
What is interesting to me, is that there is no attempt to hide it, theres nothing inconspicuous about it at all, and the UCi is notorious for some silly rules. Even a coat of rattle can flat black would have done wonders to make it less noticable. Maybe even a RockShox sticker on it......
I didn't read it all, but I've delt with more stuff that's been "fatigue or team tested" and broken under daily use to think those terms are useless and overused so no one asks questions. Unless that bike was specifically designed to have pivots, bearings, stays and hardware designed from the start to hold up to a pro xc rider smashing the shit out of it at 500w and zero care for how smooth they do it, somethings going to give.
Looks like a new Saint crank on that new Phoenix, or is it just a sticker on some other model ? I can't figure out any...
Looks like a new Saint crank on that new Phoenix, or is it just a sticker on some other model ? I can't figure out any other Shimano crank with that shape.
I think he just has to run different cranks because of the way the front sprocket is mounted to the cranks, the sprocket is probably on a spindle.
Looks like a new Saint crank on that new Phoenix, or is it just a sticker on some other model ? I can't figure out any...
Looks like a new Saint crank on that new Phoenix, or is it just a sticker on some other model ? I can't figure out any other Shimano crank with that shape.
Can someone explain to me where the chain goes after it goes over the top of the chainring?
Looks like a new Saint crank on that new Phoenix, or is it just a sticker on some other model ? I can't figure out any...
Looks like a new Saint crank on that new Phoenix, or is it just a sticker on some other model ? I can't figure out any other Shimano crank with that shape.
Can someone explain to me where the chain goes after it goes over the top of the chainring?
It's giving me Superco Silencer Vibes~~~
Can someone explain to me where the chain goes after it goes over the top of the chainring?
It's giving me Superco Silencer Vibes~~~
It's a jackshaft - one chain connects the cassette to the idler pulley, which is coaxial (am I using that right?) with another pulley that is connected to the chainring via a second chain.
Looks like a new Saint crank on that new Phoenix, or is it just a sticker on some other model ? I can't figure out any...
Looks like a new Saint crank on that new Phoenix, or is it just a sticker on some other model ? I can't figure out any other Shimano crank with that shape.
I think he just has to run different cranks because of the way the front sprocket is mounted to the cranks, the sprocket is probably on...
I think he just has to run different cranks because of the way the front sprocket is mounted to the cranks, the sprocket is probably on a spindle.
given that its also running what looks to be the current production saint derailleur i'd guesstimate its just another crank with a saint sticker, greenland style.
Looks like a new Saint crank on that new Phoenix, or is it just a sticker on some other model ? I can't figure out any...
Looks like a new Saint crank on that new Phoenix, or is it just a sticker on some other model ? I can't figure out any other Shimano crank with that shape.
It's a jackshaft - one chain connects the cassette to the idler pulley, which is coaxial (am I using that right?) with another pulley that is...
It's a jackshaft - one chain connects the cassette to the idler pulley, which is coaxial (am I using that right?) with another pulley that is connected to the chainring via a second chain.
I don't think it's called a pulley when it's transferring torque (so two sprockets instead of two pulleys), I think pulleys only redirect chains, ropes and the like. But yeah, that.
It's the same arrangement as the jack shaft except you don't need a shaft going through the frame, you can even have the two sprockets bolted together and use a bearing inside both of them like it's used with a pulley. In reality I wouldn't be surprised if there's an axle going through the frame with some proper bearings supporting it.
Looks like a new Saint crank on that new Phoenix, or is it just a sticker on some other model ? I can't figure out any...
Looks like a new Saint crank on that new Phoenix, or is it just a sticker on some other model ? I can't figure out any other Shimano crank with that shape.
It's a jackshaft - one chain connects the cassette to the idler pulley, which is coaxial (am I using that right?) with another pulley that is...
It's a jackshaft - one chain connects the cassette to the idler pulley, which is coaxial (am I using that right?) with another pulley that is connected to the chainring via a second chain.
I was mistaken, I looked at the picture again and realized the chain from the cassette goes to the "idler" pulley. At first glance, it looked like the chain was going from the bottom of the cassette to the top of the chainring, which confused me.
Re: The Pivot Phoenix, it looks to be running Weagle's high pivot design and maybe the DW6 sus design. Looks to be a lot more happening at the BB junction box than just a high pivot with a split pivot link.
Re: The Pivot Phoenix, it looks to be running Weagle's high pivot design and maybe the DW6 sus design. Looks to be a lot more happening...
Re: The Pivot Phoenix, it looks to be running Weagle's high pivot design and maybe the DW6 sus design. Looks to be a lot more happening at the BB junction box than just a high pivot with a split pivot link.
Yeah, at first I thought it was a regular horizontal lower link but now that you point that out I think there's more going on. It looks like part of the frame sticks up and back towards the rear wheel above the BB, which would line up with the DW6 system, but that would require another pivot. My guess is either there's a 'hidden' pivot around where a Horst link would have it near the wheel, or it's a Split Pivot/concentric type, but it's hard for me to make it out from this image. Did a quick freehand (mouse) sketch with a Split Pivot DW6 model:
For the bike with the alu bit replacing the shock, I'm more interested in the forces in play vs the carbon lay up. That can make for cracked bit real quick if parts were designed to move with a shock and are now suddenly fixed in place. I know I had a shock on an xc bike that loved brushing against my leg in tech sections when things got spicy and locking out in 2011 and I ended up cracking 3 times.
Those pivots and tubes are taking a lot more stress than they were ever designed for.
Depends on if the lock out of the shock the frame is designed for has a blow off for hits above a certain force or not (do xc shocks have this?). If no blow off then it'd be the same as locked out and the frame should be designed for it. Either way I think it'd be fine for sponsored racers who really only need the frame to last a weekend, but perhaps less fine so for us normal people who expect a frame to last a few years.
I’ve seen some companies use a similar piece of metal/pipe in place of the shock when doing fatigue and stress testing of frames, so you would think in those cases it would be fine.
I can’t imagine the frame would be designed to only survive with a shock in there that is pumped up to a certain pressure or with a certain blow off valve lockout?
it may however cause premature bearing or bushing wear etc.
Just wondering if you clicked the link to read the article about it at all? James goes into a bit of detail about the piece, noting that it even looks to have more than one mounting option, couple more pics, etc.
Now this doesnt look like it was cooked up in a shed by a couple of hacks, so I dont think I'd be too concerned about the wear and tear on what is basically a factory team, in a World cup XC race. Theres definitely some thought put into creating this piece, and as noted in a previous comment, loads of fatigue testing goes into frame design with solid components to replace shocks.
What is interesting to me, is that there is no attempt to hide it, theres nothing inconspicuous about it at all, and the UCi is notorious for some silly rules. Even a coat of rattle can flat black would have done wonders to make it less noticable. Maybe even a RockShox sticker on it......
Was anyone else surprised by the the listed offset (54mm) on Ohlins special Edition "Race Crowns"? Or was that a typo and it is supposed to be 45mm?
Seems to go against the current ideology of slacker HTA's being paired with shorter offsets for descending and the assumption that longer offsets makes the steering "floppier". I experimented with a short (42mm) offset crown on my DH bike last year and thought it was more natural for cornering than the stock 52mm offset but I'm also not a WC pro...
I believe ohlins offers 42 46 51 and 54
personally there is no right answer. Other than a longer offset I’ll use a longer stem and shorter a shorter stem. But either direction has positives and negatives and which one to go with is probably going to be determined by other variables that people are more selective about
I heard an interview with the Gamux guys a while back (Bikes & Big Ideas, I think) about the bikes and the UCI rule changes. Definitely interesting.
its all relative, stack height, how high your running the fork all matter as well. As a rule of thumb, don't place huge emphasis on what pro's run, they want a setup they are use to and is consistent for them, because they are going to go into a corner or berm at insane speed and just want the predictability so they can commit 100%. Its why they often don't swap bikes mid season etc.
Ohlins have a lot of aftermarket crowns for purchase so you can always swap easily
Looks like a new Saint crank on that new Phoenix, or is it just a sticker on some other model ? I can't figure out any other Shimano crank with that shape.
Some solid Brooklyn Machine Works vibes goin on here
Nice to see a jackshaft design on the WC level, Starling would be proud
I was also surprised by 54mm but I’d hope they’d make all the sizes. Also we have no clue if the 54mm is what the team actually uses. Could be different between riders.
I’m running 46mm with Ohlins and agreed, I like the stability and they feel more planted. I think it felt better on the Trek session, but now on the supreme v5, I may try the 51mm just to confirm.
I didn't read it all, but I've delt with more stuff that's been "fatigue or team tested" and broken under daily use to think those terms are useless and overused so no one asks questions. Unless that bike was specifically designed to have pivots, bearings, stays and hardware designed from the start to hold up to a pro xc rider smashing the shit out of it at 500w and zero care for how smooth they do it, somethings going to give.
Out at the weekend. New Ibis spotted in the park....
Couldn't get another pic as time was short
I think he just has to run different cranks because of the way the front sprocket is mounted to the cranks, the sprocket is probably on a spindle.
Did you happen to notice if it was mullet?
Is it even an Ibis with straight top tube? Looks better though, we can all agree on that
Looks like the Pivot starts as a mid pivot, but the rear axle would move forward quite soon after sag.
Saw the rider doing a few laps. I Tried to be incognito and think it was full size wheels front and rear. But he's a tall bloke so could be possible
It was a very big bike, my mate in his xl ripmo was well jealous
Can someone explain to me where the chain goes after it goes over the top of the chainring?
It's giving me Superco Silencer Vibes~~~
Which chain? 😜
It's a jackshaft - one chain connects the cassette to the idler pulley, which is coaxial (am I using that right?) with another pulley that is connected to the chainring via a second chain.
given that its also running what looks to be the current production saint derailleur i'd guesstimate its just another crank with a saint sticker, greenland style.
I don't think it's called a pulley when it's transferring torque (so two sprockets instead of two pulleys), I think pulleys only redirect chains, ropes and the like. But yeah, that.
It's the same arrangement as the jack shaft except you don't need a shaft going through the frame, you can even have the two sprockets bolted together and use a bearing inside both of them like it's used with a pulley. In reality I wouldn't be surprised if there's an axle going through the frame with some proper bearings supporting it.
I was mistaken, I looked at the picture again and realized the chain from the cassette goes to the "idler" pulley. At first glance, it looked like the chain was going from the bottom of the cassette to the top of the chainring, which confused me.
Re: The Pivot Phoenix, it looks to be running Weagle's high pivot design and maybe the DW6 sus design. Looks to be a lot more happening at the BB junction box than just a high pivot with a split pivot link.
More info on the DW high pivot design: https://www.pinkbike.com/news/dave-weagle-patents-high-pivot-drivetrain…
Also, I know it was posted a few pages back, but the yet-to-be-announced GX Transmission can be seen on the new Canyon Spectral:ON in today's Vital article: https://www.vitalmtb.com/news/press-release/canyon-updates-spectralon
Yeah, at first I thought it was a regular horizontal lower link but now that you point that out I think there's more going on. It looks like part of the frame sticks up and back towards the rear wheel above the BB, which would line up with the DW6 system, but that would require another pivot. My guess is either there's a 'hidden' pivot around where a Horst link would have it near the wheel, or it's a Split Pivot/concentric type, but it's hard for me to make it out from this image. Did a quick freehand (mouse) sketch with a Split Pivot DW6 model: