MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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4/9/2023 3:17pm
Is the quality of the frames so bad? I have never owned a commencal bike and non of my friends owns one, so I have no...

Is the quality of the frames so bad? I have never owned a commencal bike and non of my friends owns one, so I have no comparison. All of their frames appear to be quite burly and overbuild. I know that a lot of old supreme frames failed, but is this also the case in the meta range?

I cracked 2 2022 META TR's at the top/front shock mount
snapped an SX on the chainstay... same as this(not mine)I snapped my Meta SX : commencal (reddit.com)

4/9/2023 3:23pm
sspomer wrote:
from the transmission PDF - "This chainring uses our T-Type design and is backwards compatible with Eagle technology (X-SYNC II)." BUT, this is only described on...

from the transmission PDF - "This chainring uses our T-Type design and is backwards compatible with Eagle technology (X-SYNC II)."

BUT, this is only described on an e-bike chainring page. it is not mentioned on other product pages in the PDF.

Screen Shot 2023-04-06 at 10.47.51 AM.png?VersionId=CFFTAebr60e6Mb01j

 

Had a chat with a sram guy and he cleared this up for me - big issue with running new chainring and crankset with old eagle cassette is suboptimal chain line, the new chain is also not advised with the original eagle because the oversized roller will wear out the o.g. Eagle significantly quicker.

2
4/9/2023 11:10pm
Sir HC wrote:
katana wrote:
Maybe something like this, on the shop side there’s a bicycle section without products. The site is supremetechnology.eu .   

Maybe something like this, on the shop side there’s a bicycle section without products. The site is supremetechnology.eu . 61D6AF20-3651-4E5C-84B2-42D4610A8AF1

 

There’s a good thread on VitalMX about interters. https://countershox.com/2022/02/11/how-does-countershox-work/
 

some guys said they bought them and will test. I wonder if the product would work better or less noticeable on a lighter mountain bike?

TEAMROBOT
Posts
1374
Joined
9/2/2009
Location
Los Angeles, CA US
4/9/2023 11:25pm

The Fox GRIP2 damper looks 5 years old, but it got a pretty important update that flew under the radar when they did the VVC adjuster inside the damper 3 years ago. Unfortunately, the knobs on the outside look the same so you can't tell it's different, but it's a pretty clever invention that allows them to fine tune their high speed rebound and compression shims in place on the damper rod without preloading them. The original GRIP2 damper (and lots of other fork dampers in lots of other brands) use the high speed knobs (on compression or rebound) to adjust preload on shims. This achieves the goal of increasing damping force through those shims but it doesn't do so evenly across the speed range, creating a digressive damper tune for heavier riders. Digressive means lots of damping force until you overcome the preload, then it blows wide open. Not ideal, but a pretty common way to deliver adjustable high speed damping for customers that doesn't require taking apart the damper and installing rider-specific shim stacks.

The VVC damper doesn't preload the shims, it actually changes their spring rate via a knob, which allows heavier riders to run more high speed damping AND have it more consistent across various shaft speeds. Think of preloading a coil spring versus changing coil springs- one is much more effective at tuning spring rate than the other. I haven't ridden one, but I love the thinking, and I don't know of another damper that can do what the VVC adjusters do. If you're curious, there's a pretty good video from Fox explaining how they work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krLP9cawQAA

10
Jakub_G
Posts
352
Joined
8/7/2019
Location
SK
4/10/2023 4:29am
TEAMROBOT wrote:
The Fox GRIP2 damper looks 5 years old, but it got a pretty important update that flew under the radar when they did the VVC adjuster...

The Fox GRIP2 damper looks 5 years old, but it got a pretty important update that flew under the radar when they did the VVC adjuster inside the damper 3 years ago. Unfortunately, the knobs on the outside look the same so you can't tell it's different, but it's a pretty clever invention that allows them to fine tune their high speed rebound and compression shims in place on the damper rod without preloading them. The original GRIP2 damper (and lots of other fork dampers in lots of other brands) use the high speed knobs (on compression or rebound) to adjust preload on shims. This achieves the goal of increasing damping force through those shims but it doesn't do so evenly across the speed range, creating a digressive damper tune for heavier riders. Digressive means lots of damping force until you overcome the preload, then it blows wide open. Not ideal, but a pretty common way to deliver adjustable high speed damping for customers that doesn't require taking apart the damper and installing rider-specific shim stacks.

The VVC damper doesn't preload the shims, it actually changes their spring rate via a knob, which allows heavier riders to run more high speed damping AND have it more consistent across various shaft speeds. Think of preloading a coil spring versus changing coil springs- one is much more effective at tuning spring rate than the other. I haven't ridden one, but I love the thinking, and I don't know of another damper that can do what the VVC adjusters do. If you're curious, there's a pretty good video from Fox explaining how they work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krLP9cawQAA

It works great, at least on paper. Sadly, all the parts that are stacked in vvc mechanism have to be made to tighter tolerances than fox is capable of doing, so in real world the leading shim either has preload(at least in this case it has tuning range)or float(in which case high speed adjuster does next to nothing and overall damping is also very soft. If some really high end manufacturer like ext of bos came up with this mechanism I would believe they are capable of keeping the tolerances tight enough, but with fox? Forget it, only hight end thing about fox is their marketing. Oh, and prices lol.

10
1
Primoz
Posts
4539
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
SI
4/10/2023 11:06am

I think Fox actually patented the VVC adjusters, so there's a reason nobody else uses it.

2
BigNubbs
Posts
8
Joined
2/7/2015
Location
Mount Shasta, CA US
4/10/2023 12:36pm

They've been working on the re-release of the Float X2 for 2024.

It's going to be much better they're hoping. Sea otter.

Some new things going on in the base valve, new bearing design, some new tunes, new trunnion eyelet that is thicker at the body threads. Like the old 2020 float x2 design. 7000 series bodies to prevent cracking on Trunnion. Hardend steel damper shafts I think for both x2 dampers.

Haven't heard of new fork/vvc stuff for 2024.

7
earleb
Posts
351
Joined
3/23/2023
Location
North Vancouver, BC CA
4/10/2023 1:47pm
TEAMROBOT wrote:
The Fox GRIP2 damper looks 5 years old, but it got a pretty important update that flew under the radar when they did the VVC adjuster...

The Fox GRIP2 damper looks 5 years old, but it got a pretty important update that flew under the radar when they did the VVC adjuster inside the damper 3 years ago. Unfortunately, the knobs on the outside look the same so you can't tell it's different, but it's a pretty clever invention that allows them to fine tune their high speed rebound and compression shims in place on the damper rod without preloading them. The original GRIP2 damper (and lots of other fork dampers in lots of other brands) use the high speed knobs (on compression or rebound) to adjust preload on shims. This achieves the goal of increasing damping force through those shims but it doesn't do so evenly across the speed range, creating a digressive damper tune for heavier riders. Digressive means lots of damping force until you overcome the preload, then it blows wide open. Not ideal, but a pretty common way to deliver adjustable high speed damping for customers that doesn't require taking apart the damper and installing rider-specific shim stacks.

The VVC damper doesn't preload the shims, it actually changes their spring rate via a knob, which allows heavier riders to run more high speed damping AND have it more consistent across various shaft speeds. Think of preloading a coil spring versus changing coil springs- one is much more effective at tuning spring rate than the other. I haven't ridden one, but I love the thinking, and I don't know of another damper that can do what the VVC adjusters do. If you're curious, there's a pretty good video from Fox explaining how they work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krLP9cawQAA

Ohlins does this with their variable clamp design in the TTX18. In the TTX18 they don't preload the HS stack with a spring they change the OD of the clamp shim. I have not seen a good picture showing how they do it.

Changing the OD of the clamp shim makes the slope steeper. They way others do it with the spring pre-load keeps the slope the same but moves the whole curve up. 

2
chriskief
Posts
728
Joined
4/15/2017
Location
New York, NY US
4/10/2023 2:04pm
BigNubbs wrote:
They've been working on the re-release of the Float X2 for 2024. It's going to be much better they're hoping. Sea otter. Some new things going...

They've been working on the re-release of the Float X2 for 2024.

It's going to be much better they're hoping. Sea otter.

Some new things going on in the base valve, new bearing design, some new tunes, new trunnion eyelet that is thicker at the body threads. Like the old 2020 float x2 design. 7000 series bodies to prevent cracking on Trunnion. Hardend steel damper shafts I think for both x2 dampers.

Haven't heard of new fork/vvc stuff for 2024.

A friend received one recently as a warranty. Supposedly addresses the trunnion issues. The label has a few new codes on it which are different from the 22/23 model.

fox.jpg?VersionId=qEQXqHYt4JYvUkKlouDumer1bpe

 

4
BigNubbs
Posts
8
Joined
2/7/2015
Location
Mount Shasta, CA US
4/10/2023 2:49pm
BigNubbs wrote:
They've been working on the re-release of the Float X2 for 2024. It's going to be much better they're hoping. Sea otter. Some new things going...

They've been working on the re-release of the Float X2 for 2024.

It's going to be much better they're hoping. Sea otter.

Some new things going on in the base valve, new bearing design, some new tunes, new trunnion eyelet that is thicker at the body threads. Like the old 2020 float x2 design. 7000 series bodies to prevent cracking on Trunnion. Hardend steel damper shafts I think for both x2 dampers.

Haven't heard of new fork/vvc stuff for 2024.

chriskief wrote:
A friend received one recently as a warranty. Supposedly addresses the trunnion issues. The label has a few new codes on it which are different from...

A friend received one recently as a warranty. Supposedly addresses the trunnion issues. The label has a few new codes on it which are different from the 22/23 model.

fox.jpg?VersionId=qEQXqHYt4JYvUkKlouDumer1bpe

 

Nice! Yeah that's the new new 2024. Should last much longer between services.

Haven't had any time on mine yet. Winter.

1
2supple
Posts
99
Joined
1/23/2022
Location
Denver, CO US
4/10/2023 4:58pm
BigNubbs wrote:
They've been working on the re-release of the Float X2 for 2024. It's going to be much better they're hoping. Sea otter. Some new things going...

They've been working on the re-release of the Float X2 for 2024.

It's going to be much better they're hoping. Sea otter.

Some new things going on in the base valve, new bearing design, some new tunes, new trunnion eyelet that is thicker at the body threads. Like the old 2020 float x2 design. 7000 series bodies to prevent cracking on Trunnion. Hardend steel damper shafts I think for both x2 dampers.

Haven't heard of new fork/vvc stuff for 2024.

chriskief wrote:
A friend received one recently as a warranty. Supposedly addresses the trunnion issues. The label has a few new codes on it which are different from...

A friend received one recently as a warranty. Supposedly addresses the trunnion issues. The label has a few new codes on it which are different from the 22/23 model.

fox.jpg?VersionId=qEQXqHYt4JYvUkKlouDumer1bpe

 

BigNubbs wrote:

Nice! Yeah that's the new new 2024. Should last much longer between services.

Haven't had any time on mine yet. Winter.

I got a call from their warranty dept today saying that they wanted to swap to the new 2024 as well. Only downside is it sounds like it's a different tune and I really liked the existing tune that came stock on my bike. They said they will pick a tune that closely matches as possible (given the new valving) - I hope it's not much different. 

1
samlr
Posts
35
Joined
12/14/2017
Location
CA
4/11/2023 8:05am
chriskief wrote:
A friend received one recently as a warranty. Supposedly addresses the trunnion issues. The label has a few new codes on it which are different from...

A friend received one recently as a warranty. Supposedly addresses the trunnion issues. The label has a few new codes on it which are different from the 22/23 model.

fox.jpg?VersionId=qEQXqHYt4JYvUkKlouDumer1bpe

 

BigNubbs wrote:

Nice! Yeah that's the new new 2024. Should last much longer between services.

Haven't had any time on mine yet. Winter.

2supple wrote:
I got a call from their warranty dept today saying that they wanted to swap to the new 2024 as well. Only downside is it sounds...

I got a call from their warranty dept today saying that they wanted to swap to the new 2024 as well. Only downside is it sounds like it's a different tune and I really liked the existing tune that came stock on my bike. They said they will pick a tune that closely matches as possible (given the new valving) - I hope it's not much different. 

It is not much different. I've been testing a few new tune this winter and to be honest my bike feel better. 

2
26aintdead
Posts
22
Joined
10/19/2022
Location
Rossland, BC CA
4/11/2023 9:50am

anybody have any new insights about the release date of the new boxxer / vivid?

4/11/2023 10:28am

I noticed a change to the Trek Session Factory bikes in a video they just posted.

Looks like like the chainstay pivot isn’t a full cnc unit like in the past. Maybe a brace that could be changed for stiffness.

F77EBC80-27BA-41F2-9944-CB53FA733240

 

16
mspenc
Posts
6
Joined
3/2/2023
Location
Fort Collins, CO US
4/11/2023 10:53am
readochris wrote:
Has anyone seen any Rockshox athletes running flight attendant on their bikes? I haven’t been able to spot any from my casual peruse of the footage...

Has anyone seen any Rockshox athletes running flight attendant on their bikes? I haven’t been able to spot any from my casual peruse of the footage from the first 2 EDRs. 

I remember Charlie Murray (NZ) was running flight attendant last year after it got released but don’t know for how long that lasted

readochris wrote:
Yeh that’s right. I’ve been seeing over the summer (our southern summer) that he hasn’t had it on and obviously not on any other athletes it...

Yeh that’s right. I’ve been seeing over the summer (our southern summer) that he hasn’t had it on and obviously not on any other athletes it seems this season. Just curious as it seemed targeted as a racing product but the top racers don’t seem to be running it. 

I could be wrong since things change so fast, but Flight Attendant is still based on the bladder charger 2.1 damper, and hasn't been upgraded to the charger 3 yet. This likely explains why none of the pros are using it anymore.

11
fartsack
Posts
138
Joined
10/13/2021
Location
咸興市 KP
4/12/2023 1:45am Edited Date/Time 4/12/2023 1:50am
TEAMROBOT wrote:
The Fox GRIP2 damper looks 5 years old, but it got a pretty important update that flew under the radar when they did the VVC adjuster...

The Fox GRIP2 damper looks 5 years old, but it got a pretty important update that flew under the radar when they did the VVC adjuster inside the damper 3 years ago. Unfortunately, the knobs on the outside look the same so you can't tell it's different, but it's a pretty clever invention that allows them to fine tune their high speed rebound and compression shims in place on the damper rod without preloading them. The original GRIP2 damper (and lots of other fork dampers in lots of other brands) use the high speed knobs (on compression or rebound) to adjust preload on shims. This achieves the goal of increasing damping force through those shims but it doesn't do so evenly across the speed range, creating a digressive damper tune for heavier riders. Digressive means lots of damping force until you overcome the preload, then it blows wide open. Not ideal, but a pretty common way to deliver adjustable high speed damping for customers that doesn't require taking apart the damper and installing rider-specific shim stacks.

The VVC damper doesn't preload the shims, it actually changes their spring rate via a knob, which allows heavier riders to run more high speed damping AND have it more consistent across various shaft speeds. Think of preloading a coil spring versus changing coil springs- one is much more effective at tuning spring rate than the other. I haven't ridden one, but I love the thinking, and I don't know of another damper that can do what the VVC adjusters do. If you're curious, there's a pretty good video from Fox explaining how they work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krLP9cawQAA

Well the VVC wasn't that much of an upgrade since it made highspeed compresseion almost irelevant anyway. 

I do agree tough, the old Grip2 HC was more compression than I needed. This is what a usefull range of settings is for, isnt it? But the new one felt like some twiddly knobs you find at any walmart fork just to look cool.

 

2
EugenM
Posts
79
Joined
8/18/2016
Location
TF
4/12/2023 1:54am
26aintdead wrote:

anybody have any new insights about the release date of the new boxxer / vivid?

on the subject of release dates, shouldn't the embargo on the new Spez ended by now?, what happened, did they postpone the launch date? 

4/12/2023 2:36am
icantride wrote:
https://www.bikeradar.com/news/devinci-chainsaw-steve-smith/   Not sure if they broke the embargo early, but the new Devinci Chainsaw is up. Not on the Devinci website yet Looks good, like...

https://www.bikeradar.com/news/devinci-chainsaw-steve-smith/

 

Not sure if they broke the embargo early, but the new Devinci Chainsaw is up. Not on the Devinci website yet

Looks good, like an alloy Spartan

 

Weird, Did Devinci forget about 6ft riders, less than 470 reach and close to 500 is too much...

current trend is brands relaxing those reach numbers... devinci didnt get the memo i see.
 

3
4/12/2023 2:45am

The latest photos of the unreleased sram caliper, the black one that looks a bit like the original Code caliper. It seems to look quite different from the previous prototype that was red with paint splat effect over it. The shapes around the pistons are different, the latest black one is flatter and the red one had some unusual looking shapes on it. The piston area had bulges in the middle that the latest black one doesn't have.

I'm guessing the current Code is staying and this will be released as a dh specific brake, but it's interesting that theres been no spy shots of any completely new lever designs to go with this new caliper.

I know the new code lever is different but its only changed to be closer to the bars, apparently the internals have not changed.

Does anyone know if the red one is still being spotted being tested out in the wild by pros? Anyone have any ideas on what the bulges on the red one were all about?

I'm hoping the eventual production version looks more like the red one but it seems the black one has a model name which suggests thats the version they are going with?

2
4/12/2023 2:59am
Weird, Did Devinci forget about 6ft riders, less than 470 reach and close to 500 is too much... current trend is brands relaxing those reach numbers...

Weird, Did Devinci forget about 6ft riders, less than 470 reach and close to 500 is too much...

current trend is brands relaxing those reach numbers... devinci didnt get the memo i see.
 

"The reach numbers should give riders plenty of room on the bike. They start at 449mm on the size S and climb to 469mm, 494mm and 519mm for the M, L and XL bikes.

2
Onawalk
Posts
344
Joined
7/5/2021
Location
CA
4/12/2023 5:14am
icantride wrote:
https://www.bikeradar.com/news/devinci-chainsaw-steve-smith/   Not sure if they broke the embargo early, but the new Devinci Chainsaw is up. Not on the Devinci website yet Looks good, like...

https://www.bikeradar.com/news/devinci-chainsaw-steve-smith/

 

Not sure if they broke the embargo early, but the new Devinci Chainsaw is up. Not on the Devinci website yet

Looks good, like an alloy Spartan

 

Screen shot my man,

page is gone 

6
Yoda
Posts
131
Joined
9/24/2021
Location
IT
4/12/2023 5:21am Edited Date/Time 4/12/2023 5:21am
icantride wrote:
https://www.bikeradar.com/news/devinci-chainsaw-steve-smith/   Not sure if they broke the embargo early, but the new Devinci Chainsaw is up. Not on the Devinci website yet Looks good, like...

https://www.bikeradar.com/news/devinci-chainsaw-steve-smith/

 

Not sure if they broke the embargo early, but the new Devinci Chainsaw is up. Not on the Devinci website yet

Looks good, like an alloy Spartan

 

Onawalk wrote:

Screen shot my man,

page is gone 

Looked sick. They'll help fund to the work of the foundation. Its basically an alloy, park oriented Spartan (similar spirit to the Commencal Furious). Can't remember pricing.

Anyone have leads on products releasing at Sea Otter next week? Hope to see a few surprises. 

1
Sol.Cob
Posts
29
Joined
1/13/2021
Location
GB
4/12/2023 5:44am Edited Date/Time 4/12/2023 5:45am

image-20230412134458-1image-20230412134501-2image-20230412134509-3

 

Had the tab left open Smile

8
4/12/2023 5:53am
Sol.Cob wrote:
    Had the tab left open :)

image-20230412134458-1image-20230412134501-2image-20230412134509-3

 

Had the tab left open Smile

You’re a beautiful person and you should know this! 😃

Strangely, this Devinci looks exactly like my next bike! 😂 Can anyone extrapolate on how Devinci managed to get another 10mm of travel? By a longer shock, by a different link, a combination?

5
Poleczechy
Posts
243
Joined
4/20/2018
Location
Hartsel, CO US
4/12/2023 6:01am

The other site has the Chainsaw story posted. 

4/12/2023 6:15am Edited Date/Time 4/12/2023 6:16am

The Chainsaw’s live on the other site! 
And the details are sick! 

samlr
Posts
35
Joined
12/14/2017
Location
CA
4/12/2023 7:08am
Sol.Cob wrote:
    Had the tab left open :)

image-20230412134458-1image-20230412134501-2image-20230412134509-3

 

Had the tab left open Smile

You’re a beautiful person and you should know this! 😃 Strangely, this Devinci looks exactly like my next bike! 😂 Can anyone extrapolate on how Devinci...

You’re a beautiful person and you should know this! 😃

Strangely, this Devinci looks exactly like my next bike! 😂 Can anyone extrapolate on how Devinci managed to get another 10mm of travel? By a longer shock, by a different link, a combination?

Longer stroke

4/12/2023 8:26am
The latest photos of the unreleased sram caliper, the black one that looks a bit like the original Code caliper. It seems to look quite different...

The latest photos of the unreleased sram caliper, the black one that looks a bit like the original Code caliper. It seems to look quite different from the previous prototype that was red with paint splat effect over it. The shapes around the pistons are different, the latest black one is flatter and the red one had some unusual looking shapes on it. The piston area had bulges in the middle that the latest black one doesn't have.

I'm guessing the current Code is staying and this will be released as a dh specific brake, but it's interesting that theres been no spy shots of any completely new lever designs to go with this new caliper.

I know the new code lever is different but its only changed to be closer to the bars, apparently the internals have not changed.

Does anyone know if the red one is still being spotted being tested out in the wild by pros? Anyone have any ideas on what the bulges on the red one were all about?

I'm hoping the eventual production version looks more like the red one but it seems the black one has a model name which suggests thats the version they are going with?

I've seem them out in the wild but not red....  

1
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