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No one’s trying to crap on it, but don’t all derailleurs need alignment to the axle and cassette!
And the new AXS is aligned to the axle and the cassette as it rotates around the axle.
Soo, we all know about the meta prototype (near public nowadays), a few days back commencal showed us the photos of the factory Enduro teams with the frame with internally routed cables but the frames still looked a bit prototype (not much of a paint job etc)
Today, Antonie Vidal (by far the best Enduro rider that commencal haves, and a huge promise in DH) posted his new Meta with a pretty production paint job imo with headset routed cables 😔. So yes, no one is safe nowadays with this sh*t thing about headset routing...
The only part i would be worried about is bending the actual mount, i know people are standing on it, but getting hit with a rock at high spend can bend it, does AXS have a system where the motor can adjust the indexing?
The new Meta was in a Pinkbike photo shoot with non headset cable routing, weird.
Well now that's a bummer. One more brand to cross of the list (still might nab a Meta Sx before it's too late!)
The suspension layout seems pretty similar to Chris Currie's 3VO system, actually in use in some Jamis models and also in Currie's own Ministry Psalm frame
Why are companies doing this?
I own a 2022 Meta SX, best bike I've ever ridden but if this is the route (no pun intended) Commencal wants to take, I will look for another brand for my next bike, as would most likely everybody.
Why is that so hard for companies to understand?
Found the Ochain-R manual, think that might be launching tommorow
At times I feel Peak Torque and the like seem to exist solely to fill the space and views of the crowd that wants to talk down everything new. I don't for a second believe that guy actually believes a lot of what he says. That or he's the ego stroking know-it-all engineer type who can always see the super obvious problem no one else does and the lesser engineers didn't consider. Ever notice how often they don't actually use any of the stuff they 'review.'
If anyone's worried about the direct mount derailleur being misaligned due to dropout manufacturing tolerance. Consider the potential for misalignment from the current standard - same dropout, a flexible hanger that may or may not be integrated with the axel, a derailleur bolted on to a single side of that flexible hanger, a pivot at the derailler mounting pount that has play/flex in it out of the box. Yeah, I bet that setup is all perfectly alligned right?
If you watch the video, see if if you can count up how many things he gets wrong or just assumes. Clearly just looked at the pics and didn't read or watch any of SRAM/media outlet pieces. Comically bad take really. Ready, fire, aim.
**Edit - He's since pinned this to the top of his comments, though I'm not sure haste deserves the only blame:
Hands up to a large misinterpretation: after looking at the drawings today, the outer plate is not supposed to be clamped to the dropout. It is floating, with a smooth inner bore. The black bolt on the DS only clamps the inner mech plate to the dropout (just like existing UDH). I presume then the outer mech plate is only used as a brace during an impact when the small radial floating clearance has been taken up by force. Thus, my comments about dropout width tol are void, although the specified dropout width is +0.2 which should easily be achievable. In haste, mistakes happen. Apologies for that.
Not entirely sure what the exact technical term but there seems to be a classification of these type of suspension design like yeti switch infinity and alchemy sine, two short linkage where the bottom link changes direction.
Yup, but Currie designed the 3VO specifically to avoid Giant/DW patents, by keeping both links inside the front triangle.
GODDAM this is annoying. The whole point is that thanks to the rear mech mounting to the axle a hanger is NO LONGER NEEDED. The frames still use a UDH mount and tolerances that have been in use for years now. How many UDH frames have you seen where the axle doesn't thread in due to mis alignment? how many frames have wheels off centre due to bad UDH tolerances? The square root of F'All. Most misalignment comes from poorly produced.....................hangers. If the mech is out of alignment with this system, there is a whole lot of F'wittery going on.
Now let's think about the whole direct mount ruining a frame. If you hit a rock hard enough to smash one of these deraileurs, I dare say your frame is going to be ruined anyway....
I'd put money on that not being headset routing, but just the new Codes which have hose routing which is closer to the bar, as he's on AXS and probably runs Euro brake setup, his rear is on the right of the bar and enters the frame to the non-drive side
Interestingly, The "enduro project" bikes revealed this week,
https://www.vitalmtb.com/news/press-release/commencal-enduro-project-bi…
have very distinct cable routing ports on the drive side. The bike in that photo does not, not even a hole...
Recent post from Aaron Gwin
The new frame still looks like the upper cup could be used, otherwise why is it so big? The headset routing backlash may have worked on this one.
Heard rumors about an Spesh Embargo lifting on Friday, new Demo? Can someone confirm?
More likely Epic
Maybe all this headset cable routing that no one wants but it seems everyone is getting is a way for the corporations to bring more business back to the LBS's. We know it doesn't have anything to do with functionality. Perhaps its a way to get more bikes in the doors of LBS for simple maintenance routines. Help their bottom line.
Either way it's ridiculous and something I think a lot of us will try and avoid. Thats the only way I can make sense of it.
I think the majority of riders don't fully grasp how to finetune the derailleur so the through headset routing doesn't impact them directly. It looks cleaner so it sells on the shop floor. So all the moaning and whining we do on these forums has a precisely diddly squat effect on the situation as at the end of the day it's the sales numbers that matter. And the sales of through-headset routed bikes might just be better than the sales of externally or through-frame routed bikes.
We are vocal, but we are a minority. Sometimes the vocal minority can change things, but that happens rarely. And it's even harder to achieve a change if the vocalisation happens within the minority, not towards the majority.
it`s a way to sell more wireless stuff like axs and flight attendant.
I thought 3VO behaved like the Sine or Switch design where the lower link changes directions through the cycle but looking at Ministry IG looks like it behaves like dw/giant
There seems to be some progress on the new Code calipers.
Jack has been testing a black version of them in his latest vid.
Nope, it's a parallel dual link/same direction system, same as with DW/Maestro. There was an old story on emptybeer IIRC, back from when Chris was trying to market the suspension layout, and I recall him specifically stating the links protruding forward instead of backwards with regards to the ST/BB was the main argument in favor of a patent, without stepping into the "prior art" territory claimed by the DW Link and Maestro systems.
Is it just a blurry picture, or are the mounting bolts further apart on this caliper? Seems like that’s been a limiting factor in piston size for quite a while…
Looks very much like standard PM spacing.
I think a big part of the limit for piston size is the finger length/stroke and the strength (force) it can achieve. If you use bigger pistons and still want to have a half decent pad clearance to prevent rotor rub, you need more fluid flow which requires either a larger main cylinder bore or a longer main piston throw.
With bikes we are very much limited by the total energy input (stroke and force) from the finger. I've mentioned this before in a comment thread or something, you can only make the finger-to-piston ratio non-linear to move a lot of fluid in the free stroke part of the stroke and have small movements when the pads contact the rotor, thus achieving a higher effective force. This is what the swing link does on Sram brakes and is the reason why RSC brakes (Guide or Code) give you so much more power than R level brakes.
ochainR PR is here - https://www.vitalmtb.com/forums/hub/ochain-components-release-new-ochai…
enduro bikes from maydena world cup - https://www.vitalmtb.com/forums/hub/world-cup-enduro-bikes-maydena
(i won't go super crazy spamming tech forum w/ other articles, but instead putting vids like this here, i'm making separate forum posts to keep things in here less chaotic)
The o-chain thing is, in my opinion, the absolutely most confusing thing happening in mountain biking today.
The math says it should provide zero benefit above speeds of like 6 or 8 mph (or whatever, pretty slow, depends on hub engagement but you know... pretty slow) YET, there are tens of elite level world cup racers using them, and I'm assuming thousands of people that most would consider to be regionally elite. I feel like there really needs to be a quantifiable deep dive into what it actually does.
But I guess if it does or doesn't provide any benefit, but a fast guy feels like it makes them faster, then can't hurt. Idk, it just confused the shit out of me.