MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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3/1/2023 11:13am
2023 Super Deluxe, is ok, but not great. The HBO addition is nice, (but ultimately not that important) but unfortunately now changing high speed compression changes...

2023 Super Deluxe, is ok, but not great. The HBO addition is nice, (but ultimately not that important) but unfortunately now changing high speed compression changes rebound, which is very suboptimal.

 

In short, they reinvented the wheel, when the 2022 is a better product when it comes to compression and rebound damping, all to implement HBO, which wasn't needed that desperately. 

Dave_Camp wrote:

Steve-  changing HSC does nothing to your rebound setting (on either SDLX air or coil).  I'll need to see your dyno graphs proving otherwise.

 

enginerds.jpg?VersionId=Zcqzbhs0EnjHTppJPUeFci GUE1BmiF

 

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Dave_Camp
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3/1/2023 11:21am

10/10 Noah

 

I did do some math and stared at a dyno for a long time.  It's frustrating to read stuff stated as fact that is not correct. 

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1
dolface
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3/1/2023 11:46am
 

 

21
3/1/2023 11:51am

Dat’s purdy 

3
nskerb
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Kelso, WA US
3/1/2023 11:57am

There are a lot of stupid people in the comments (me included) and mr. Camp is not one of them from my understanding. 

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3/1/2023 12:49pm
Dave_Camp wrote:
10/10 Noah   I did do some math and stared at a dyno for a long time.  It's frustrating to read stuff stated as fact that...

10/10 Noah

 

I did do some math and stared at a dyno for a long time.  It's frustrating to read stuff stated as fact that is not correct. 

That doesn't change the fact the HSC adjustment is bullshit on them though.

12
Dave_Camp
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3/1/2023 1:24pm Edited Date/Time 3/1/2023 1:26pm

can you explain?

5
3/1/2023 5:41pm
 New Specialized "Supercaliber" and new SRAM stuff.

331720157 892082015396393 73591918638295602 n

 New Specialized "Supercaliber" and new SRAM stuff.

Interesting headset with obviously integrated cable routing but would it be possible to have some reach adjustment?
BTW, I'm shocked it's not standard on more bikes to have some reach and angleset adjustment. I would minimize the number of molds required: manufacturers could probably tackle 6 sizes with 2 front triangles. I think GG is doing something similar. 

2
Uncle Cliffy
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Medford, OR US
3/1/2023 6:22pm
Dave_Camp wrote:

can you explain?

I think he wants MoAr sHiMZ…

5
Onawalk
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Location
CA
3/1/2023 7:32pm
Dave_Camp wrote:
10/10 Noah   I did do some math and stared at a dyno for a long time.  It's frustrating to read stuff stated as fact that...

10/10 Noah

 

I did do some math and stared at a dyno for a long time.  It's frustrating to read stuff stated as fact that is not correct. 

That doesn't change the fact the HSC adjustment is bullshit on them though.

Out of curiosity, when on a RS fork or shock, when it says +3 clicks of HSC, what does that mean to you?

Like where are YOU starting from, and which way are you turning the dial?

Just curious

 

5
Jon_Angieri
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3/1/2023 8:21pm

87323D64-BC79-440B-A5C0-78B0DB891054.gif?VersionId= 

 

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3/2/2023 1:18am

Aww the Specialized Epicaliber were removed Dry

2
mamath7
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FR
3/2/2023 4:24am
Onawalk wrote:
Out of curiosity, when on a RS fork or shock, when it says +3 clicks of HSC, what does that mean to you? Like where are...

Out of curiosity, when on a RS fork or shock, when it says +3 clicks of HSC, what does that mean to you?

Like where are YOU starting from, and which way are you turning the dial?

Just curious

 

from open

1
slimshady
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AR
3/2/2023 4:29am
Onawalk wrote:
Out of curiosity, when on a RS fork or shock, when it says +3 clicks of HSC, what does that mean to you? Like where are...

Out of curiosity, when on a RS fork or shock, when it says +3 clicks of HSC, what does that mean to you?

Like where are YOU starting from, and which way are you turning the dial?

Just curious

 

mamath7 wrote:

from open

Yup, me too. That's how it was written in the manuals back in the day. However, most of the websites count from closed these days. Which it's stupid if you ask me, since fully closed means a completely inactive suspension, and ideally you'd like it to be as active as possible, without hindering control.

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3/2/2023 4:34am
slimshady wrote:
Yup, me too. That's how it was written in the manuals back in the day. However, most of the websites count from closed these days. Which...

Yup, me too. That's how it was written in the manuals back in the day. However, most of the websites count from closed these days. Which it's stupid if you ask me, since fully closed means a completely inactive suspension, and ideally you'd like it to be as active as possible, without hindering control.

It is because the open reference is not fixed, but the closed reference is fixed. It is due to tolerances. Count from closed - always.

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4
3/2/2023 4:54am
brash wrote:

is the 2023 Super Deluxe that good? When this DHX2 blows up again (inevitable) I'd consider one, stock in Aus is nil however. Rocking horse shit.

Have you tried Cyclinic? 

Dave_Camp
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CO US
3/2/2023 5:43am
Onawalk wrote:
Out of curiosity, when on a RS fork or shock, when it says +3 clicks of HSC, what does that mean to you? Like where are...

Out of curiosity, when on a RS fork or shock, when it says +3 clicks of HSC, what does that mean to you?

Like where are YOU starting from, and which way are you turning the dial?

Just curious

 

Now that means +3 clicks from the middle- nominal- setting (on charger 3 and new shocks).  That was a massive discussion and re-thought of how people should set up their suspension.  We wanted people to use the knobs- making it the normal/default setting in the middle of the range was hoping to push people to actually use the damper. 

 

Otherwise it's count out from closed as that is almost always a hard-stop of a valve being completely closed (and you can compare that to your buddy's fork/shock of the same type).   Most of the time the open side has a few dead clicks that don't do anything measurable (tolerance eaters) so better to count from closed.  I guess read the manual for your specific shock/fork and it should say where to count from.

18
slimshady
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AR
3/2/2023 5:56am
Dave_Camp wrote:
Now that means +3 clicks from the middle- nominal- setting (on charger 3 and new shocks).  That was a massive discussion and re-thought of how people...

Now that means +3 clicks from the middle- nominal- setting (on charger 3 and new shocks).  That was a massive discussion and re-thought of how people should set up their suspension.  We wanted people to use the knobs- making it the normal/default setting in the middle of the range was hoping to push people to actually use the damper. 

 

Otherwise it's count out from closed as that is almost always a hard-stop of a valve being completely closed (and you can compare that to your buddy's fork/shock of the same type).   Most of the time the open side has a few dead clicks that don't do anything measurable (tolerance eaters) so better to count from closed.  I guess read the manual for your specific shock/fork and it should say where to count from.

Now that makes an excellent explanation on why I should change from counting from open to counting from closed. Thanks for the enlightingment!

5
Onawalk
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CA
3/2/2023 6:05am
Onawalk wrote:
Out of curiosity, when on a RS fork or shock, when it says +3 clicks of HSC, what does that mean to you? Like where are...

Out of curiosity, when on a RS fork or shock, when it says +3 clicks of HSC, what does that mean to you?

Like where are YOU starting from, and which way are you turning the dial?

Just curious

 

Dave_Camp wrote:
Now that means +3 clicks from the middle- nominal- setting (on charger 3 and new shocks).  That was a massive discussion and re-thought of how people...

Now that means +3 clicks from the middle- nominal- setting (on charger 3 and new shocks).  That was a massive discussion and re-thought of how people should set up their suspension.  We wanted people to use the knobs- making it the normal/default setting in the middle of the range was hoping to push people to actually use the damper. 

 

Otherwise it's count out from closed as that is almost always a hard-stop of a valve being completely closed (and you can compare that to your buddy's fork/shock of the same type).   Most of the time the open side has a few dead clicks that don't do anything measurable (tolerance eaters) so better to count from closed.  I guess read the manual for your specific shock/fork and it should say where to count from.

I was aware of the change, just wanted to see if those that complain, had actually read the manual.

I find most people are bewildered by suspension setup, and struggle to correctly twiddle their knobs to even get to the factory recommended settings.

Appreciate the info dave, youre out here doing good work

8
Primoz
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SI
3/2/2023 8:52am

Geezus, you guys are killing me. First the WAN show crossing into the 3 and then 4 hour territory, now Vital... -_-

There goes my evening.

12
1
Primoz
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3/2/2023 10:56am

DONE!

Regarding the pedal vs. tuck speed and signaling to the rider... What part of it is illegal? Any signalization? Either a light or a speed chime?
For any followers of JDM culture, I'm sure you'll be aware of this gem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TLwn1BGscs

But yeah, tucking vs. pedaling most definitely works and saves your legs a bit.

2
mntnmrtn
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NA, BC CA
3/2/2023 12:15pm
sspomer wrote:
inside line ride along w/ john hall, team robot, schroeder, simonetti and me is up now. tons of rad bike nerd stuff. it' only 3 hours...

inside line ride along w/ john hall, team robot, schroeder, simonetti and me is up now. tons of rad bike nerd stuff. it' only 3 hours 15 mins, so we couldn't cover everything : ) video or podcast channel

https://www.vitalmtb.com/features/john-hall-inside-line-ride-along-ep-2

Thanks sspomer! Make it 4-5 hours if you want, the longer the better Smile

4
brash
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AU
3/2/2023 1:00pm
brash wrote:

is the 2023 Super Deluxe that good? When this DHX2 blows up again (inevitable) I'd consider one, stock in Aus is nil however. Rocking horse shit.

Have you tried Cyclinic? 

First port of call, sold out.

1
BrambleLee
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3/2/2023
Location
Portland, OR US
3/2/2023 4:19pm
sharpy212 wrote:
Any day now…..

F7331A1F-4CF2-4FB7-B013-E2D615B26CF4.png?VersionId=4fUvGuydX2kDwzNZ

Any day now…..

I think that's a Zipp decal we can partially see on the rim in this pic—maybe a new lightweight XC oriented wheel? Of course, with those thin stays and no visible chainslap protection, this is probably a gravel rig, so maybe a Zipp sticker doesn't hint at anything new at all.

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1
3/2/2023 5:27pm
sharpy212 wrote:
Any day now…..

F7331A1F-4CF2-4FB7-B013-E2D615B26CF4.png?VersionId=4fUvGuydX2kDwzNZ

Any day now…..

BrambleLee wrote:
I think that's a Zipp decal we can partially see on the rim in this pic—maybe a new lightweight XC oriented wheel? Of course, with those...

I think that's a Zipp decal we can partially see on the rim in this pic—maybe a new lightweight XC oriented wheel? Of course, with those thin stays and no visible chainslap protection, this is probably a gravel rig, so maybe a Zipp sticker doesn't hint at anything new at all.

looking at the angle of the seat-stay and lack of anything like a pivot, that's most likely a Zipp 303s on a 1X gravel/cxc bike

Don't look for the new Eagle release in the next week or so, there's a bit more time.

2
Jonnyboy918
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Broken Arrow, OK US
3/2/2023 5:28pm

Gravel bikes use 12 speed Eagle?

1
1
chriskief
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New York, NY US
3/2/2023 6:08pm

With all the talk of AXS only for new direct mount, interesting that the 2021 patent drawing shows a cable.

sram.jpg?VersionId=hZf43yuKHQcTZJGSpLEqWcXugYV1cs

 

5
Big Bird
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Oceano, CA US
3/2/2023 7:50pm

Wouldn't it be amazing if we got the best of both worlds? The precise, quick shifting of the AXS if you want, as well as the option of using a cable. One product for everyone.

4
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