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So perhaps cnc lugs instead of printed? You could put out a lot of cheaper bikes with a bank of mills running day and night.
Don’t get me wrong, I love CNC stuff, it usually comes out looking like jewelry. But…..I prefer the idea of additive manufacturing to subtractive manufacturing. Is it cheaper to have a bank of CNC mills to additive machines (honest question) I feel like their are more possibilities with additive manufacturing, but I could be wrong.
Additive manufacturing is still more time and resource consuming, and as a novel technology, the cost of machinery will be more expensive. Also, Atherton are using titanium as the material for additive manufacturing, which means high material cost. AM has good flexibility for customization and complex internal structures, where CNC needs to be programmed more intensively with tool paths etc. and is also limited by access for the tooling. AM has several supports and post production steps, whereas CNC delivers a finished product straight out of the machine.
Yeah but the C series Yeti 160 GX is $11,490 AUD and the Spire Carbon GX is $11,699 AUD.
Either way its pretty crazy
I believe that since additive manufacturing is so new, the machines are probably more expensive. Also cnc is much faster and requires less hand work to clean it up after printing. Thus lower price. It seems The Barron got here first...
Can we all agree the rent is too damn high so we can stop debating bikes prices in the tech rumors forum?
I hadn't seen this instagram post until now but i'm almost certain the bike I saw was this new more affordable R&D theyre doing as seen in the post. Looked really clean
Shitting on yeti for their pricing is one of the increasingly rare things the overwhelming majority of guys can all agree on. Let us enjoy it lol.
CNC over additive makes sense for a whole bunch of reasons - off the shelf materials and abundantly available sub contractors spring to mind. But I think the post processing of the additive parts is probably the real killer, most notably the fact that bearing surfaces will have to be CNC’d anyway.
How they work around the double lap joints and internal structures using CNC will be interesting though.
Seems like it finally landed on S site https://www.specialized.com/us/en/s-works-enduro-frameset/p/200517?colo…
The downtube that you can see a little bit of in the photo looks aluminum. That plus Wizzle saying the bike was "fully silver" makes me think that they're using aluminum lugs bonded to aluminum tubes. I know it could have been painted but maybe it's just polished raw aluminum. Bonding cnc Al lugs to Al tubes is unusual. I mean if you're going to make a fully aluminum bike why not just use mitered/formed tubesets and welding like everyone else? But bonding would eliminate post weld heat treat. I don't have any experience with bonding like this. On the face of it, it seems like it could be faster than welding and wouldn't require as skilled of labor compared to welding. Anyone knowledgeable/experienced with fancy glue that can chime in?
It does seem odd to not just use carbon tubes bonded to Al lugs though. For the total cost of a frame, it doesn't seem like it'd save that much.
$3400? the new sb160 frame is only $5000 lol
I work in Aerospace, we produce a part for helicopters that is essentially the same principle used at Atherton bikes, albeit our brackets are CNC alloy in to carbon tubes. The bonding of the part is exactly the same, I did actually apply at Atherton when they were looking for people.
Bonding of CNC alloy 'lugs' into alloy tubes can also be done, no problem, there are adhesives for all sorts of material bonding out there, 3M being the biggest supplier for all of them. Pretty sure a 3M DP490 after lap shear testing would result in a strong enough bond for the application, but I'm sure they'd be numerous adhesives they manufacture that could work to different strengths.
This just came out, so I haven’t had a chance to listen to it but here’s more info on that Williams Racing/Trinity gearbox:
https://shows.acast.com/bikes-big-ideas/episodes/trinity-mtbs-gearbox-v…
sb140 is now official. the last of the 3 new SB bikes.
https://www.vitalmtb.com/features/2023-yeti-sb140-review
spoiler (again) - rides well, expensive.
Gut feeling (haven't looked at the numbers) says yes. The amount of parts worldwide being made by machining operations, talking about big series stuff (automotive & co) is staggering. 3D printing is mostly used for marketing exercises in prototypes, concept cars and low volume products.
If you look at the dreambuild vide of the Atherton bike, where the complete process is shown, it's insane how much manual work is required for _ONE_ bike. And I've heard comments that the prices they charge for their frames are a steal given the technique used to manufacture the bikes.
As for double lap joints, I think the double lap joint could be avoided. After all, look at Faction Bike Studio: https://enduro-mtb.com/en/faction-bike-studio-visit/
In series production you need to ensure the correct application of glue, both the placement (all around the joint and along the length of it) and the quantity. With a double lap joint you insert the tube into a cavity with glue in it, which is pushed out and surrounds the tube, ensuring that. Gluing is usually done on two flat surfaces you can press together (windscreens into cars, 2 halves of a bike frame, etc. Not using a double lap joint could be averted by having a port in the outer tube near the hidden edge of the joint and having an O-ring (or something similar) sealing up the joint behind it, forcing the glue towards the outside edge and giving you good visual control over the quality of the glued joint.
Aluminium is also apparently a wonderful material to glue together, most Al cars these days are glued together, not welded. An example of that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZ5lxms9xuw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0jXhOmL7Xg
I wouldn't be surprised if in the future having glued aluminium bikes could be fairly common by using straight (-ish) tubes and milled, forged (and milled) lugs, maybe even cast lugs? I'm guessing it could save quite a lot of energy and you wouldn't have the issues with heat treating and straightening the frames afterwards. The shape of a bike frame is not the best for gluing as ideally you have large surface areas for the glued joint (which gives it strength), but it's not impossible, clearly.
Vitus and Trek used to glue frames together, wonder why they stopped?
It makes sense that Atherton would glue Al lugs to Al tubes: they have experience and expertise in bonding and can probably use the same jigs that they use for carbon/ti bikes. They're already setup to make frames in that manner, just have to adjust to the parameters of a different adhesive. Conventional welded Al frames if made in house would require them to learn a lot, hire skilled welders, and buy a lot of equipment.
Regarding glued lug Al construction becoming the norm.... perhaps one day, but I don't think it's there yet.
Stumpy EVO Sworks 2023 color (still not on US site yet)
Merida bonded their AlBonTech bikes in the eighties. That was when they first started producing under their own name after a Norwegian who wanted to sell bikes didn't have his own brand to put on the frames, and thought Merida was as good as anything... So bonding frames is nothing new.
Is this our new Levo SL??
No more asymmetrical, looks kinda like a Commencal
Listened to it. Interesting tidbit about moving the cassette, not the chainring to shift. Apparently what is shown is a few weeks/months behind in the development and a more refined variant is already made and another one in the works.
An enduro variant with 500 % range was also mentioned. I'm REALLY interested in how that one will pan out. Using a 12spd cassette like we have on our bikes is out of the question, the 50T is simply too big. It hardly even fits inside the front triangle of a modern trailbike without packaging the shock and links, let alone a bottle. Also moving a 12spd cassette I think is out of the question due to the width compared to a 6spd cassette the DH bike uses. I think a dual cassette variant (like the Shimano patent uses - 2 11-25 15spd cassettes give an almost even 13 % jump between gears and a 516 % range) or a 2-stage setup (2xsomething at least) is something that can hardly be avoided. So yeah, interested in seeing what comes of it
That's exactly what I was thinking when Mick was talking about a 500% range- that Shimano set up would make the modularity easier as well.
E-Status?
My thoughts exactly, but checking it out, the Status mounts the shock on the downtube, not the top tube.
New status coming too? Or is the Stumpy dropping the diagonal brace in the next generation?
One thing is for sure, this is something wholly new or overhauled from Specialized
Does anyone have insider info as to when Sram's new AXS group with the direct mount derailleur will be released? I'm going to build an XC bike sometime in the next couple of months, and I'm debating whether to transfer a bunch of parts from my Spur or liquidate everything and build it with all new parts. So I'm not sure if I should hang onto my current AXS drivetrain or hold out hope they release the next version soon.
I seem to remember a post from this thread that I can't find mentioning the coming spring.
I'm sure as hell waiting until then before I change anything from my drivetrain (finishing up the 4th season on the original cassette and front chainring...) or pulling the trigger on a new bike.
I don't believe they will abandon the current status design, they simply used the x wing enduros tubings creating it because of that the frame must be costing them a dime. if they drastically update it they will loose the 3 grand price and a customer base will vanish
I don't have concrete dates but word on the street is that the new AXS groups will launch spring of 2023. Maybe March/April?