MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

Related:
Prototype
Bebop.Skibble 4/9/2022 11:48am
4/9/2022 11:48am
So far Jordi, Boris Beyer, and I think Emily Batty have been spotted in Finale Ligure. Im guessing something new from canyon, fox, or both.
1
styriabeef 4/9/2022 12:23pm
4/9/2022 12:23pm
Primoz wrote:
Re Forestal, as far as I know CG is one of the investors. I might be shooting blanks here, but I do seem to have it...
Re Forestal, as far as I know CG is one of the investors. I might be shooting blanks here, but I do seem to have it rooted in my memory that some Russian money used to be thrown around as well? Don't quote me on that one as well (might be a PITA for the company these days if true). In any case, Forestal and Production Privee are part of the same group with designers stationed in the same building.

Regarding CG's tinkering, as far as I'm informed, it's a custom Bafang unit optimised for light weight, which makes the bikes sleeker through a smaller battery and through a less powerful motor the middrive unit can be a bit smaller too, if there were any changes done it ot of course.

As for the same frame (design) used for both types of bikes, I'd say that's a no. No way in hell are you going to compromise a bike with an open downtube unless strictly necessary (for battery mounting), removing the motor to remove the battery is very cumbersome (though Specialized does this...), the mounting geometry for the motor requires different requirements to pedal bikes, the suspension geometries can be optimised differently (different levels of antisquat and possibly leverage characteristics), etc.
CG and Forestal are not tinkering anymore, they are up and running. I'm surprised it hasn't been discussed more in here, but ok - it's just an ebike.
Technically their Syrion is an 18kg enduro bike with a 60nm motor built by Bafang in cooperation with Forestal and a 360Wh battery, and it rides great, and turned me from eBike hater to enthusiast. How? I have one in my garage since January.

About the company:
CG mentioned a while ago on GMBN that he was a partner in Forestal, his role is somewhat of an ambassador. One of the other owners is Anton Yarashuk from bellarus (not Russia, but not very different) and is the owner of vizor-games and also lives in Andorra just like CG, where the bikes are assambled, painted, and in the future will also be built there.

This pick came up on an owners-forum recently, and it's their take on a trail bike, that you can order as well. Bikes in the US have been delivered.
They have had a little hickups, with delayed deliveries, paint chipping and troubles with their electronics, but as far as I know they loved up to their promises and guarantees.

About the e-hatred:
I love mountainbikes and I can still put the hammer down on my own, but having a family with little kids leaves less time that I'd like to for biking. So I commute with my eBike, do a 45min trail lap on my way home, did exercise, but am not tired and can spend more quality time with my family, without feeling the urge to go out ride, because I already have.

About the costs of ebikes:
Have you seen prices for a lightweight specced enduro bike lately? And if it's not so lightweight there's little weight difference to my bike now.

I'm not sure I'm burned yet, but I can tell that I have only touched my outdated 26" speci enduro once since.
5
1
Primoz
Profile picture for user Primoz
Posts
4534
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
SI
Primoz 4/9/2022 1:55pm
4/9/2022 1:55pm
FWIW, the tinkering comment was aimed as a quote of Big Birds comment. As far as I've been told, Forestal's operations are damn serious.
3
styriabeef 4/9/2022 2:10pm
4/9/2022 2:10pm
Primoz wrote:
FWIW, the tinkering comment was aimed as a quote of Big Birds comment. As far as I've been told, Forestal's operations are damn serious.
I admit I haven't read the whole build up. Just was wondering why it's overlooked. I was hesitant to buy from such an unknown brand, but they take no prisoners, they mean business. Btw. I've read that there is or will be a dealer/customer service in Slovenia. Do you know more?
Primoz
Profile picture for user Primoz
Posts
4534
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
SI
Primoz 4/9/2022 2:13pm
4/9/2022 2:13pm
Honestly no, but I did hear about a possibility of testing a bike over here a while ago, so it should be connected if true.
hardbash
Profile picture for user hardbash
Posts
63
Joined
7/14/2021
Location
DE
hardbash 4/9/2022 2:39pm
4/9/2022 2:39pm Edited Date/Time 4/9/2022 2:41pm
Bebop.Skibble wrote:
So far Jordi, Boris Beyer, and I think Emily Batty have been spotted in Finale Ligure. Im guessing something new from canyon, fox, or both.
Definitely Canyon. A lot of mtb magazine bike testers were there and one of them posted a bad ass Canyon-team-Sprinter. Don't know about Fox.
I guess it is the new Strive release
1
noideamtber 4/9/2022 2:43pm
4/9/2022 2:43pm
JamesR_2026 wrote:
I've noticed Dean Lucas is running an aluminium Gambler frame this year, or at least the front end. It doesn't look too different from the stock...
I've noticed Dean Lucas is running an aluminium Gambler frame this year, or at least the front end.
It doesn't look too different from the stock one but there has to be a reason. New Scott proto or just testing custom geo?
They dont really have an R&D team anymore.
has scott purchased any other brands other than bold recently? The current genius and ransom were anther design that wasnt theirs and we all know about the new BOLD! spark.
I've sat on the new genius and ransom (basically same bike with different link) when it was in the local scott dealer with the Countrys importer who was doing the rounds of all the scott sellers.
Wasnt allowed to take photos but i snuck one in, wont post it though as thats a pretty shit thing to do.
2
O1D4
Profile picture for user O1D4
Posts
91
Joined
10/20/2018
Location
Vancouver CA
O1D4 4/9/2022 3:15pm
4/9/2022 3:15pm
Primoz wrote:
Re Forestal, as far as I know CG is one of the investors. I might be shooting blanks here, but I do seem to have it...
Re Forestal, as far as I know CG is one of the investors. I might be shooting blanks here, but I do seem to have it rooted in my memory that some Russian money used to be thrown around as well? Don't quote me on that one as well (might be a PITA for the company these days if true). In any case, Forestal and Production Privee are part of the same group with designers stationed in the same building.

Regarding CG's tinkering, as far as I'm informed, it's a custom Bafang unit optimised for light weight, which makes the bikes sleeker through a smaller battery and through a less powerful motor the middrive unit can be a bit smaller too, if there were any changes done it ot of course.

As for the same frame (design) used for both types of bikes, I'd say that's a no. No way in hell are you going to compromise a bike with an open downtube unless strictly necessary (for battery mounting), removing the motor to remove the battery is very cumbersome (though Specialized does this...), the mounting geometry for the motor requires different requirements to pedal bikes, the suspension geometries can be optimised differently (different levels of antisquat and possibly leverage characteristics), etc.
styriabeef wrote:
CG and Forestal are not tinkering anymore, they are up and running. I'm surprised it hasn't been discussed more in here, but ok - it's just...
CG and Forestal are not tinkering anymore, they are up and running. I'm surprised it hasn't been discussed more in here, but ok - it's just an ebike.
Technically their Syrion is an 18kg enduro bike with a 60nm motor built by Bafang in cooperation with Forestal and a 360Wh battery, and it rides great, and turned me from eBike hater to enthusiast. How? I have one in my garage since January.

About the company:
CG mentioned a while ago on GMBN that he was a partner in Forestal, his role is somewhat of an ambassador. One of the other owners is Anton Yarashuk from bellarus (not Russia, but not very different) and is the owner of vizor-games and also lives in Andorra just like CG, where the bikes are assambled, painted, and in the future will also be built there.

This pick came up on an owners-forum recently, and it's their take on a trail bike, that you can order as well. Bikes in the US have been delivered.
They have had a little hickups, with delayed deliveries, paint chipping and troubles with their electronics, but as far as I know they loved up to their promises and guarantees.

About the e-hatred:
I love mountainbikes and I can still put the hammer down on my own, but having a family with little kids leaves less time that I'd like to for biking. So I commute with my eBike, do a 45min trail lap on my way home, did exercise, but am not tired and can spend more quality time with my family, without feeling the urge to go out ride, because I already have.

About the costs of ebikes:
Have you seen prices for a lightweight specced enduro bike lately? And if it's not so lightweight there's little weight difference to my bike now.

I'm not sure I'm burned yet, but I can tell that I have only touched my outdated 26" speci enduro once since.
It is impossible to find any reviews of these bikes anywhere... Would be interested to know how they stack up compared to an Orbea Rise.
boozed
Profile picture for user boozed
Posts
649
Joined
6/11/2019
Location
AU
boozed 4/9/2022 3:40pm
4/9/2022 3:40pm Edited Date/Time 4/9/2022 8:01pm
JamesR_2026 wrote:
I've noticed Dean Lucas is running an aluminium Gambler frame this year, or at least the front end. It doesn't look too different from the stock...
I've noticed Dean Lucas is running an aluminium Gambler frame this year, or at least the front end.
It doesn't look too different from the stock one but there has to be a reason. New Scott proto or just testing custom geo?
noideamtber wrote:
They dont really have an R&D team anymore. has scott purchased any other brands other than bold recently? The current genius and ransom were anther design...
They dont really have an R&D team anymore.
has scott purchased any other brands other than bold recently? The current genius and ransom were anther design that wasnt theirs and we all know about the new BOLD! spark.
I've sat on the new genius and ransom (basically same bike with different link) when it was in the local scott dealer with the Countrys importer who was doing the rounds of all the scott sellers.
Wasnt allowed to take photos but i snuck one in, wont post it though as thats a pretty shit thing to do.
Who was responsible for the current Genius and Ransom (and, by extension, the current Gambler and previous Spark)?

Pinkbike posted and then hastily hid an article and a video on Cervelo's XC race bikes. Not quite badge-engineered Santa Cruzes, but pretty damn close. I thought they were at Sea Otter but based on this I guess they're still embargoed?
metadave
Profile picture for user metadave
Posts
1244
Joined
2/15/2016
Location
Revelstoke, BC CA
metadave 4/9/2022 10:31pm
4/9/2022 10:31pm
JamesR_2026 wrote:
I've noticed Dean Lucas is running an aluminium Gambler frame this year, or at least the front end. It doesn't look too different from the stock...
I've noticed Dean Lucas is running an aluminium Gambler frame this year, or at least the front end.
It doesn't look too different from the stock one but there has to be a reason. New Scott proto or just testing custom geo?
noideamtber wrote:
They dont really have an R&D team anymore. has scott purchased any other brands other than bold recently? The current genius and ransom were anther design...
They dont really have an R&D team anymore.
has scott purchased any other brands other than bold recently? The current genius and ransom were anther design that wasnt theirs and we all know about the new BOLD! spark.
I've sat on the new genius and ransom (basically same bike with different link) when it was in the local scott dealer with the Countrys importer who was doing the rounds of all the scott sellers.
Wasnt allowed to take photos but i snuck one in, wont post it though as thats a pretty shit thing to do.
boozed wrote:
Who was responsible for the current Genius and Ransom (and, by extension, the current Gambler and previous Spark)? Pinkbike posted and then hastily hid an article...
Who was responsible for the current Genius and Ransom (and, by extension, the current Gambler and previous Spark)?

Pinkbike posted and then hastily hid an article and a video on Cervelo's XC race bikes. Not quite badge-engineered Santa Cruzes, but pretty damn close. I thought they were at Sea Otter but based on this I guess they're still embargoed?
I was comparing the cervelo against the Blur and they were pretty damn close looking other than a few visual differences at a quick glance. I'll be interested in a back to back test.
1
Primoz
Profile picture for user Primoz
Posts
4534
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
SI
Primoz 4/9/2022 11:28pm
4/9/2022 11:28pm
Huh, interesting that they took it down. I watched it yesterday. It is similar to the Blur, there is a family resemblance, but the tooling is completely new. And supposedly they did take the Blur as a base and adjusted it to their own liking.

Makes sense, the gravity crowd looking at/going for an XC bike will buy the Blur as it's from a familiar brand and 'surely must be OK', while the roadies and racers will go for a Cervelo for the same reason, it's a known quantity. So covering a lot more market with an identical product (or at least a product that was spared a lot of development).
1
Bob Chicken
Profile picture for user Bob Chicken
Posts
70
Joined
3/30/2014
Location
YeahNah, VIC AU
Bob Chicken 4/10/2022 4:29am
4/10/2022 4:29am
RiderMikeCheck1 wrote:
More brands need to make light casing high grip/soft rubber. Regarding WTB; their 'light' casing is still pretty burly. I think most put it between EXO+...
More brands need to make light casing high grip/soft rubber.
Regarding WTB; their 'light' casing is still pretty burly. I think most put it between EXO+ and DD. I would say that's a fair assessment.
bike_futurist wrote:
dhf maxxgrip is available in exo. a tad bit over kilo [img]https://r2-bike.com/media/image/product/171400/lg/maxxis-tire-minion-dhf-29-x-250-wt-3c-maxxgrip-tr-exo~2.jpg[/img]
dhf maxxgrip is available in exo. a tad bit over kilo

boozed wrote:
And the Assegai EXO+ MaxxGrip I have on my shelf weighs 1180g.
The one I have is 1320g... should have bought the DH casing...
luisgutrod
Profile picture for user luisgutrod
Posts
333
Joined
5/8/2017
Location
Paris FR
luisgutrod 4/10/2022 8:01am
4/10/2022 8:01am
O1D4 wrote:
It is impossible to find any reviews of these bikes anywhere... Would be interested to know how they stack up compared to an Orbea Rise.
Worldwidecyclery will stock them.. you will hear from these guys..
styriabeef 4/10/2022 8:42am
4/10/2022 8:42am
O1D4 wrote:
It is impossible to find any reviews of these bikes anywhere... Would be interested to know how they stack up compared to an Orbea Rise.
There are reviews in French and German out there.
No comparisons though, AFAIK. PM me if you don't find it on your own.
1
Karabuka
Profile picture for user Karabuka
Posts
432
Joined
12/1/2011
Location
SI
Karabuka 4/10/2022 11:58pm
4/10/2022 11:58pm
boozed wrote:
Who was responsible for the current Genius and Ransom (and, by extension, the current Gambler and previous Spark)? Pinkbike posted and then hastily hid an article...
Who was responsible for the current Genius and Ransom (and, by extension, the current Gambler and previous Spark)?

Pinkbike posted and then hastily hid an article and a video on Cervelo's XC race bikes. Not quite badge-engineered Santa Cruzes, but pretty damn close. I thought they were at Sea Otter but based on this I guess they're still embargoed?
Brendog posted a video from new Scott HQ some time ago, here is the link and he said he is not allowed to film in the R&D parts of the building so I'm pretty sure they still have that, also if the bike looks like bold it does not mean it has the same linkage, geometry etc...
Sol.Cob
Profile picture for user Sol.Cob
Posts
29
Joined
1/13/2021
Location
GB
Sol.Cob 4/11/2022 12:04am
4/11/2022 12:04am

4
bike_futurist 4/11/2022 12:18am
4/11/2022 12:18am
Karabuka wrote:
Brendog posted a video from new Scott HQ some time ago, here is the [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueTXQqNedK8]link[/url] and he said he is not allowed to film in the...
Brendog posted a video from new Scott HQ some time ago, here is the link and he said he is not allowed to film in the R&D parts of the building so I'm pretty sure they still have that, also if the bike looks like bold it does not mean it has the same linkage, geometry etc...
maybe it was a clever ploy to hide the fact that there is no R & D department.. Cool
1
3
qblambda
Profile picture for user qblambda
Posts
43
Joined
4/9/2017
Location
CH
qblambda 4/11/2022 1:44am
4/11/2022 1:44am Edited Date/Time 4/11/2022 2:17am
Scott not designing its own bikes?
That's crazy what I can read in the recent lines...
The Spark looks like the Bold because it uses a similar layout. Period.
The Ransom and Genius share a family look but every single part is different from each other, just look closer.

Peace.
Scott MTB Lead Designer

24
2
Karabuka
Profile picture for user Karabuka
Posts
432
Joined
12/1/2011
Location
SI
Karabuka 4/11/2022 5:24am
4/11/2022 5:24am
qblambda wrote:
Scott not designing its own bikes? That's crazy what I can read in the recent lines... The Spark looks like the Bold because it uses a...
Scott not designing its own bikes?
That's crazy what I can read in the recent lines...
The Spark looks like the Bold because it uses a similar layout. Period.
The Ransom and Genius share a family look but every single part is different from each other, just look closer.

Peace.
Scott MTB Lead Designer

The fact that you are answering in this thread and not designing bikes is the biggest proof that there is indeed no such department Laughing Laughing Laughing
3
27
Jackson_Witzke 4/11/2022 10:58am
4/11/2022 10:58am
Any idea of timeline around (new ?) slip on grips Loanna was running at Petropolis




1
bulletbass man 4/11/2022 11:04am
4/11/2022 11:04am
qblambda wrote:
Scott not designing its own bikes? That's crazy what I can read in the recent lines... The Spark looks like the Bold because it uses a...
Scott not designing its own bikes?
That's crazy what I can read in the recent lines...
The Spark looks like the Bold because it uses a similar layout. Period.
The Ransom and Genius share a family look but every single part is different from each other, just look closer.

Peace.
Scott MTB Lead Designer

Karabuka wrote:
The fact that you are answering in this thread and not designing bikes is the biggest proof that there is indeed no such department :laugh: :laugh...
The fact that you are answering in this thread and not designing bikes is the biggest proof that there is indeed no such department Laughing Laughing Laughing
I am not an engineer nor do I work in the bike industry. But I’d be annoyed enough to respond to a post if someone claimed my job didn’t exist.
33
Christiaan_van der Laan 4/11/2022 11:09am
4/11/2022 11:09am
qblambda wrote:
Scott not designing its own bikes? That's crazy what I can read in the recent lines... The Spark looks like the Bold because it uses a...
Scott not designing its own bikes?
That's crazy what I can read in the recent lines...
The Spark looks like the Bold because it uses a similar layout. Period.
The Ransom and Genius share a family look but every single part is different from each other, just look closer.

Peace.
Scott MTB Lead Designer

Karabuka wrote:
The fact that you are answering in this thread and not designing bikes is the biggest proof that there is indeed no such department :laugh: :laugh...
The fact that you are answering in this thread and not designing bikes is the biggest proof that there is indeed no such department Laughing Laughing Laughing
bulletbass man wrote:
I am not an engineer nor do I work in the bike industry. But I’d be annoyed enough to respond to a post if someone claimed...
I am not an engineer nor do I work in the bike industry. But I’d be annoyed enough to respond to a post if someone claimed my job didn’t exist.
Exactly
1
Marshall Willanholly 4/11/2022 11:31am
4/11/2022 11:31am Edited Date/Time 4/11/2022 11:32am
qblambda wrote:
Scott not designing its own bikes? That's crazy what I can read in the recent lines... The Spark looks like the Bold because it uses a...
Scott not designing its own bikes?
That's crazy what I can read in the recent lines...
The Spark looks like the Bold because it uses a similar layout. Period.
The Ransom and Genius share a family look but every single part is different from each other, just look closer.

Peace.
Scott MTB Lead Designer

Karabuka wrote:
The fact that you are answering in this thread and not designing bikes is the biggest proof that there is indeed no such department :laugh: :laugh...
The fact that you are answering in this thread and not designing bikes is the biggest proof that there is indeed no such department Laughing Laughing Laughing
bulletbass man wrote:
I am not an engineer nor do I work in the bike industry. But I’d be annoyed enough to respond to a post if someone claimed...
I am not an engineer nor do I work in the bike industry. But I’d be annoyed enough to respond to a post if someone claimed my job didn’t exist.
It's not surprising that the trolls who make stupid claims like Scott not having an R&D Department or Cascade Components not understanding kinematics NEVER reply when called on their bullshit.


23
Onawalk
Profile picture for user Onawalk
Posts
344
Joined
7/5/2021
Location
CA
Onawalk 4/11/2022 12:50pm
4/11/2022 12:50pm
boozed wrote:
Who was responsible for the current Genius and Ransom (and, by extension, the current Gambler and previous Spark)? Pinkbike posted and then hastily hid an article...
Who was responsible for the current Genius and Ransom (and, by extension, the current Gambler and previous Spark)?

Pinkbike posted and then hastily hid an article and a video on Cervelo's XC race bikes. Not quite badge-engineered Santa Cruzes, but pretty damn close. I thought they were at Sea Otter but based on this I guess they're still embargoed?
Karabuka wrote:
Brendog posted a video from new Scott HQ some time ago, here is the [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueTXQqNedK8]link[/url] and he said he is not allowed to film in the...
Brendog posted a video from new Scott HQ some time ago, here is the link and he said he is not allowed to film in the R&D parts of the building so I'm pretty sure they still have that, also if the bike looks like bold it does not mean it has the same linkage, geometry etc...
You can’t film in the R&D bldg if there isn’t one….
7
jofish
Profile picture for user jofish
Posts
263
Joined
8/24/2009
Location
GB
jofish 4/11/2022 1:27pm
4/11/2022 1:27pm
Jackson_Witzke wrote:
Any idea of timeline around (new ?) slip on grips Loanna was running at Petropolis [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/04/11/12370/s1200_p5pb22360791.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/04/11/12371/s1200_p6pb22375003.jpg[/img]
Any idea of timeline around (new ?) slip on grips Loanna was running at Petropolis




So many slip on grips rumours swirling round this season 😂 Maybe we need a "slip on grips and valve caps rumours" thread?
1
jsray
Profile picture for user jsray
Posts
216
Joined
5/20/2017
Location
Gilbert, AZ US
jsray 4/11/2022 2:35pm
4/11/2022 2:35pm
dolface wrote:
No thanks. It’s $20. And their “bead dropper” is like $30. For a 1/4 of the price you can use a strap, cut a plastic tire lever to the flat part and duck tape a handle on it. I use an old oneup frame strap if the tire is unwilling to mount by hand.
jsray
Profile picture for user jsray
Posts
216
Joined
5/20/2017
Location
Gilbert, AZ US
jsray 4/11/2022 2:36pm
4/11/2022 2:36pm
dolface wrote:
No thanks. It’s $20. And their “bead dropper” is like $30. For a 1/4 of the price you can use a strap, cut a plastic tire lever to the flat part and duck tape a handle on it. I use an old oneup frame strap if the tire is unwilling to mount by hand.
JamesR_2026
Profile picture for user JamesR_2026
Posts
126
Joined
11/15/2017
Location
Bondi Beach AU
JamesR_2026 4/11/2022 2:40pm
4/11/2022 2:40pm
qblambda wrote:
Scott not designing its own bikes? That's crazy what I can read in the recent lines... The Spark looks like the Bold because it uses a...
Scott not designing its own bikes?
That's crazy what I can read in the recent lines...
The Spark looks like the Bold because it uses a similar layout. Period.
The Ransom and Genius share a family look but every single part is different from each other, just look closer.

Peace.
Scott MTB Lead Designer

So, is Dean running an aluminium prototype?
1
peecee
Profile picture for user peecee
Posts
425
Joined
5/12/2013
Location
Brisbane AU
peecee 4/11/2022 3:21pm
4/11/2022 3:21pm
qblambda wrote:
Scott not designing its own bikes? That's crazy what I can read in the recent lines... The Spark looks like the Bold because it uses a...
Scott not designing its own bikes?
That's crazy what I can read in the recent lines...
The Spark looks like the Bold because it uses a similar layout. Period.
The Ransom and Genius share a family look but every single part is different from each other, just look closer.

Peace.
Scott MTB Lead Designer

If you can't copy them buy them!

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/scott-now-own-a-majority-share-in-bold-cy…
8
boozed
Profile picture for user boozed
Posts
649
Joined
6/11/2019
Location
AU
boozed 4/11/2022 5:52pm
4/11/2022 5:52pm
Sol.Cob wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/04/11/12369/s1200_14F8AEC1_7980_44B5_B9F7_244ED50F2756.jpg[/img]

I would love an EXT shock on my bike but what is an expensive boutique air shock going to "disrupt"?
8
Post a reply to: MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

This forum thread has been locked.