MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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AndehM
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AndehM 9/15/2021 3:17pm
9/15/2021 3:17pm
TimBud wrote:
Do stop trying to come up with fancy ways of saying bike. Its bike and ebike. We don’t need anything more. Not “acoustic”. Not “analog” (or...
Do stop trying to come up with fancy ways of saying bike.
Its bike and ebike.
We don’t need anything more. Not “acoustic”. Not “analog” (or analogue). Not “pedal only”.
Inventing new ways of saying bike just makes us all look like cretins.
Surely you don’t think that anyone is that stupid that they don’t understand the difference.
I swear those stupid terms were invented by industry lizard people to try and reframe ebikes as "normal" and regular bikes as "different."
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Erwan_Ghesquiere 9/15/2021 11:41pm
9/15/2021 11:41pm
noideamtber wrote:
so, anther brand that moves suspension back to a stand up shock because its faster, wonder when they'll all realise and go back to 4 cogs...
so, anther brand that moves suspension back to a stand up shock because its faster, wonder when they'll all realise and go back to 4 cogs instead of 5 in the drivetrain because its faster aswell... lol
TruckeeRiverTroll wrote:
Ummm. What?!
noideamtber wrote:
more brands have been going back to a simple suspension pivot and through all the testing and racing enduro the Non-hp are faster...(minus dh as the...
more brands have been going back to a simple suspension pivot and through all the testing and racing enduro the Non-hp are faster...(minus dh as the bikes are so different)
the downvotes on my comment are clearly the sheep of the HP squad
Or maybe it is simply a matter of time ? Few years back Commencal were the only ones with HP in DH, now look at how many bikes are HP on the circuit. Consider that so far there is only 4 brands offering HP enduro bikes, with only GT having some chances to win with Martin Maes. Put Moir or Rude on the GT and you get a winning bike, once Maes gets back up to speed (which he is) and you will have the first win of HP bikes in Enduro too. Race win is mostly pilot based not bike so either way it doesn't prove much. Now considering how succesful the new Session is it will be interesting to see if Trek transfer that to a short travel version. Commencal might go down this route once again now that the market has matured. But either way if you have a good bike but not pilot good enough to tak a win your bike will never win. Not that it is relevant but it seems for some (like you) this kind of marketing works well.
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baronKanon 9/16/2021 12:06am
9/16/2021 12:06am
TimBud wrote:
Do stop trying to come up with fancy ways of saying bike. Its bike and ebike. We don’t need anything more. Not “acoustic”. Not “analog” (or...
Do stop trying to come up with fancy ways of saying bike.
Its bike and ebike.
We don’t need anything more. Not “acoustic”. Not “analog” (or analogue). Not “pedal only”.
Inventing new ways of saying bike just makes us all look like cretins.
Surely you don’t think that anyone is that stupid that they don’t understand the difference.
Why can't I upvote this more than once! I agree to this point on all levels and beyond!
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boozed
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boozed 9/16/2021 3:14am
9/16/2021 3:14am
Question for the suspension wonks: To my uneducated eyes the motion and resulting anti-squat, anti-rise and leverage curves of the Yeti 160E's rear suspension look very similar to what you can get out of a simple Horst Link, in contrast to what they've achieved with the switch infinity system. Does it look like there's a significant enough difference to make all of this effort worthwhile, or is it just marketing?
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slimshady
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slimshady 9/16/2021 3:25am
9/16/2021 3:25am Edited Date/Time 9/16/2021 3:29am
boozed wrote:
Question for the suspension wonks: To my uneducated eyes the motion and resulting anti-squat, anti-rise and leverage curves of the Yeti 160E's rear suspension look very...
Question for the suspension wonks: To my uneducated eyes the motion and resulting anti-squat, anti-rise and leverage curves of the Yeti 160E's rear suspension look very similar to what you can get out of a simple Horst Link, in contrast to what they've achieved with the switch infinity system. Does it look like there's a significant enough difference to make all of this effort worthwhile, or is it just marketing?
Yes :-D

On a more serious tone, most of Dave Earle's work for Yeti has been extremely derivative. He just keeps trying to find new ways around the VPP and Maestro/DW Link patents, with low or null real contributions to the different suspension parameters' management.

This gimmick looks more oriented to justifying the high price than anything else. As with a lot of Yeti products, it carries a premium and I guess they needed a way to justify it, even when this 36-bearing contraption allows them to better position the links when a motor is present at the BB area.

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Noeserd
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Noeserd 9/16/2021 4:41am
9/16/2021 4:41am Edited Date/Time 9/16/2021 4:42am
New update coming for Grip 2?
Rad fork on Tahnee's bike



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krabo83
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krabo83 9/16/2021 10:48am
9/16/2021 10:48am Edited Date/Time 9/16/2021 10:52am
Noeserd wrote:
New update coming for Grip 2? Rad fork on Tahnee's bike [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2021/09/16/11450/s1200_Screenshot_20210916_144007.jpg[/img]
New update coming for Grip 2?
Rad fork on Tahnee's bike



Pros have been on the the new RAD Grip2 for months, even in the EWS, it's even mentioned in one of the dialed videos from let gets or so i think. Unfortunately no details on what's different.
no updates on the 2022 models.
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TheShortestCharles 9/16/2021 2:29pm
9/16/2021 2:29pm
boozed wrote:
Question for the suspension wonks: To my uneducated eyes the motion and resulting anti-squat, anti-rise and leverage curves of the Yeti 160E's rear suspension look very...
Question for the suspension wonks: To my uneducated eyes the motion and resulting anti-squat, anti-rise and leverage curves of the Yeti 160E's rear suspension look very similar to what you can get out of a simple Horst Link, in contrast to what they've achieved with the switch infinity system. Does it look like there's a significant enough difference to make all of this effort worthwhile, or is it just marketing?
I think the main differentiating factor is the parabolic anti-squat curves; at least from my theoretical standpoint they seem very well-designed and likely perform better than a Horst-link, but they're also basically identical to their Switch Infinity models. The anti-rise and leverage rate definitely don't offer anything new either, so it seems like it was just a way to replicate part of the Switch Infinity system on an ebike and make it look cool (and charge more money).
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mtbman99 9/16/2021 4:21pm
9/16/2021 4:21pm
You would think that with an ebike you could simplify the suspension design because you are not as concerned with losses from the suspension as they would be easily picked up by the motor.

You can still get a really nice curves without all the extra moving parts.
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brash
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brash 9/16/2021 5:27pm
9/16/2021 5:27pm Edited Date/Time 9/17/2021 12:23am
mtbman99 wrote:
You would think that with an ebike you could simplify the suspension design because you are not as concerned with losses from the suspension as they...
You would think that with an ebike you could simplify the suspension design because you are not as concerned with losses from the suspension as they would be easily picked up by the motor.

You can still get a really nice curves without all the extra moving parts.
With my merida e-bike, the leverage curve is regressive until sag, then a mellow progression and tapers off into a relative linear final stroke.

Combined with a low anti squat value, sure you get a bit of pedal bob (got a motor who cares) but the descending capability is ridiculous. Truly a feeling of magic carpet like grip and compliance.

it's just a simple linkage driven single pivot, no fancy pants linkage here.
1
Primoz
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Primoz 9/16/2021 10:11pm
9/16/2021 10:11pm
mtbman99 wrote:
You would think that with an ebike you could simplify the suspension design because you are not as concerned with losses from the suspension as they...
You would think that with an ebike you could simplify the suspension design because you are not as concerned with losses from the suspension as they would be easily picked up by the motor.

You can still get a really nice curves without all the extra moving parts.
The technology is less important than the ability to market stuff... Fancy words sell things, not the capability of the product, at least all too often that's the case.

What I'm wondering is how long it will take for all Yeti bikes to get 6-bar suspension instead of the slide link that they currently use.
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baronKanon 9/16/2021 10:38pm
9/16/2021 10:38pm
Primoz wrote:
The technology is less important than the ability to market stuff... Fancy words sell things, not the capability of the product, at least all too often...
The technology is less important than the ability to market stuff... Fancy words sell things, not the capability of the product, at least all too often that's the case.

What I'm wondering is how long it will take for all Yeti bikes to get 6-bar suspension instead of the slide link that they currently use.
Yeti specifically said they won't offer sixfinity for bikes. All those moving parts would be nasty to troubleshoot if you get some busted bearings.
TimBud
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TimBud 9/17/2021 2:24am
9/17/2021 2:24am
baronKanon wrote:
Yeti specifically said they won't offer sixfinity for bikes. All those moving parts would be nasty to troubleshoot if you get some busted bearings.
A few trashed bearings are way cheaper to replace than a proprietary Kashima infinity link.
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krabo83
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krabo83 9/17/2021 3:14am
9/17/2021 3:14am
TimBud wrote:
A few trashed bearings are way cheaper to replace than a proprietary Kashima infinity link.
i don‘t want to start a discussion on that, but just some grease quarterly and normal care and the switch infinity link runs perfect since day one.
almost everyone who makes that BS-claim either never had a yeti or never did any normal maintenance.
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Primoz
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Primoz 9/17/2021 3:17am
9/17/2021 3:17am
That doesn't change the fact that in case of problems it's much easier, cheaper and faster to source standard bearings than it is to source a custom component.
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TimBud
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TimBud 9/17/2021 5:33am
9/17/2021 5:33am
krabo83 wrote:
i don‘t want to start a discussion on that, but just some grease quarterly and normal care and the switch infinity link runs perfect since day...
i don‘t want to start a discussion on that, but just some grease quarterly and normal care and the switch infinity link runs perfect since day one.
almost everyone who makes that BS-claim either never had a yeti or never did any normal maintenance.
Sorry man, but several of my friends had them (SB5/6) when we were guiding in the Alps. They got good deals from Yeti back then. Everyone went through at least 1 swingarm and all had significant wear on the link despite very regular maintenance (full strip, not just greasing). All in less than 4 months of use.
I was always tempted, but seeing what they all experienced, properly put me off ownership.
The sixfinity has definitely piqued my interest again, even if it has more bearings. Hopefully they won't just restrict the design to their ebike(s) even though they've said otherwise.
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Noeserd
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Noeserd 9/17/2021 7:21am
9/17/2021 7:21am
I'm not sure if it's been posted yet



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TruckeeRiverTroll 9/17/2021 1:31pm
9/17/2021 1:31pm
TruckeeRiverTroll wrote:
Ummm. What?!
noideamtber wrote:
more brands have been going back to a simple suspension pivot and through all the testing and racing enduro the Non-hp are faster...(minus dh as the...
more brands have been going back to a simple suspension pivot and through all the testing and racing enduro the Non-hp are faster...(minus dh as the bikes are so different)
the downvotes on my comment are clearly the sheep of the HP squad
Erwan_Ghesquiere wrote:
Or maybe it is simply a matter of time ? Few years back Commencal were the only ones with HP in DH, now look at how...
Or maybe it is simply a matter of time ? Few years back Commencal were the only ones with HP in DH, now look at how many bikes are HP on the circuit. Consider that so far there is only 4 brands offering HP enduro bikes, with only GT having some chances to win with Martin Maes. Put Moir or Rude on the GT and you get a winning bike, once Maes gets back up to speed (which he is) and you will have the first win of HP bikes in Enduro too. Race win is mostly pilot based not bike so either way it doesn't prove much. Now considering how succesful the new Session is it will be interesting to see if Trek transfer that to a short travel version. Commencal might go down this route once again now that the market has matured. But either way if you have a good bike but not pilot good enough to tak a win your bike will never win. Not that it is relevant but it seems for some (like you) this kind of marketing works well.
Martin seems to ride really well at Finale too, so I would fully expect a good result this week. That is, provided all the numerous variables don't jump up and bite him (mechanicals, broken hands again etc).
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Verbl Kint
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Verbl Kint 9/18/2021 10:48am
9/18/2021 10:48am
Gwin mentioned in an interview that they would be doing a lot of testing as soon as he's recovered. I wonder if Intense has something new up their sleeve.
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krabo83
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krabo83 9/18/2021 11:37am
9/18/2021 11:37am
Verbl Kint wrote:
Gwin mentioned in an interview that they would be doing a lot of testing as soon as he's recovered. I wonder if Intense has something new...
Gwin mentioned in an interview that they would be doing a lot of testing as soon as he's recovered. I wonder if Intense has something new up their sleeve.
they really need to launch some new bikes, i don‘t see how they can be financial sustainable. but maybe they still sell a lot/enough of their kinda outdated bikes.
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metadave
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metadave 9/18/2021 11:43am
9/18/2021 11:43am
Verbl Kint wrote:
Gwin mentioned in an interview that they would be doing a lot of testing as soon as he's recovered. I wonder if Intense has something new...
Gwin mentioned in an interview that they would be doing a lot of testing as soon as he's recovered. I wonder if Intense has something new up their sleeve.
I wonder if they're testing other bikes if their contract is up
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noideamtber 9/19/2021 1:42am
9/19/2021 1:42am
remember they sold sh1t loads through costco etc
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sharpy212
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sharpy212 9/19/2021 3:20am
9/19/2021 3:20am
Verbl Kint wrote:
Gwin mentioned in an interview that they would be doing a lot of testing as soon as he's recovered. I wonder if Intense has something new...
Gwin mentioned in an interview that they would be doing a lot of testing as soon as he's recovered. I wonder if Intense has something new up their sleeve.
metadave wrote:
I wonder if they're testing other bikes if their contract is up
I’m pretty sure that Gwin is invested in Intense. Just seems like they weren’t that settled on what they had geometry wise. Hope they can get something sorted out early off season and just focus on the training and riding. Be great to hear Gwin take on things.
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shreda
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shreda 9/19/2021 3:21pm
9/19/2021 3:21pm
Verbl Kint wrote:
Gwin mentioned in an interview that they would be doing a lot of testing as soon as he's recovered. I wonder if Intense has something new...
Gwin mentioned in an interview that they would be doing a lot of testing as soon as he's recovered. I wonder if Intense has something new up their sleeve.
metadave wrote:
I wonder if they're testing other bikes if their contract is up
sharpy212 wrote:
I’m pretty sure that Gwin is invested in Intense. Just seems like they weren’t that settled on what they had geometry wise. Hope they can get...
I’m pretty sure that Gwin is invested in Intense. Just seems like they weren’t that settled on what they had geometry wise. Hope they can get something sorted out early off season and just focus on the training and riding. Be great to hear Gwin take on things.
Rumors has it that Gwin has purchased some other brands DH bikes for himself too... Tues, Demo...

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mfoga
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mfoga 9/19/2021 7:49pm
9/19/2021 7:49pm
metadave wrote:
I wonder if they're testing other bikes if their contract is up
sharpy212 wrote:
I’m pretty sure that Gwin is invested in Intense. Just seems like they weren’t that settled on what they had geometry wise. Hope they can get...
I’m pretty sure that Gwin is invested in Intense. Just seems like they weren’t that settled on what they had geometry wise. Hope they can get something sorted out early off season and just focus on the training and riding. Be great to hear Gwin take on things.
shreda wrote:
Rumors has it that Gwin has purchased some other brands DH bikes for himself too... Tues, Demo...

If you are trying to compare to what you have and what you like about one vs another that makes sense.
Primoz
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Primoz 9/19/2021 10:32pm
9/19/2021 10:32pm
Everybody does that in all manners of industries. It's called benchmarking.
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LLLLL
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LLLLL 9/20/2021 12:55am
9/20/2021 12:55am
mtbman99 wrote:
You would think that with an ebike you could simplify the suspension design because you are not as concerned with losses from the suspension as they...
You would think that with an ebike you could simplify the suspension design because you are not as concerned with losses from the suspension as they would be easily picked up by the motor.

You can still get a really nice curves without all the extra moving parts.
Losses picked up by the motor reduced battery life.
LLLLL
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LLLLL 9/20/2021 1:03am
9/20/2021 1:03am
baronKanon wrote:
Yeti specifically said they won't offer sixfinity for bikes. All those moving parts would be nasty to troubleshoot if you get some busted bearings.
TimBud wrote:
A few trashed bearings are way cheaper to replace than a proprietary Kashima infinity link.
A seriously trashed bearing will most likely stretch one of those links resulting in a wallered out hole for the bearing, so they might be disposable too.
Karabuka
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Karabuka 9/20/2021 2:51am
9/20/2021 2:51am
shreda wrote:
Rumors has it that Gwin has purchased some other brands DH bikes for himself too... Tues, Demo...

From what I know he should already have those in his garage Laughing
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