I like the added stiffness if only for confidence.
Might actually add to arm pump but it feels like you can run into/over anything.
And the...
I like the added stiffness if only for confidence.
Might actually add to arm pump but it feels like you can run into/over anything.
And the bigger forks look cool- which is a legit selling point like it or not
This has pretty much been my experience between the Lyrik, Zeb, 36 and 38. I settled on a Lyrik with a push HC97 this year because it's lighter, less fatiguing and I can't ride the bigger forks any faster. I'm 155 lbs so it's hard for me to say what the best set up would be for a bigger or faster rider.
I'm 210 ready to ride and notice the stiffness going from 36 -> Zeb.
Non-stiffness thoughts:
There's was a 20 hour break in period for me until the bushings widened out some, so wait until then for judging it.
Overall I'm faster, but I do miss a few things. The Zeb (and maybe 38) axle to crown is almost a cm taller than 36/Lyriks and I had to remove that much stack worth of spacers and a bit more because... the C1 air spring rides weirdly tall. It's impossible to get over 20% sag unless you go 10 psi under the recommended pressure and then the fork feels worse overall for it. Part of it can be mitigated by cockpit setup, but I just think the combo of factors makes it feel too tall, and cornering especially suffers. Folks who have a slammed stem already would likely be f'd going to this fork.
I've inspected all the fluids and replaced them with a variety of OE and alternatives a few times. The OE fluids/grease aren't the greatest, and I'm actually happiest running a light coat of slick honey on the airspring and other sliding surfaces and then use fox gold for the 20wt, which is noticeably better than OE RockShox stuff.
I'm 210lb without my riding gear and ride a 180mm Lyrik currently and don't have an issue with fork stiffness.
From what I read about the Zeb, the main increase in stiffness over the 35mm chassis was in torsional stiffness.
I definitely don't want more torsional stiffness. I have a Dorado on my DH bike and I love the way the front wheel tracks with the little bit of extra torsional compliance, particularly on off camber. I can hold a high line much easier in a loose off camber section than someone on a 40 or Boxxer.
My new bike that is on the way will have an Ohlins RXF36 coil!
Surprised that steertube and crown stiffness hasn’t been brought up being a single crown thread. I believe stanchion diameter makes a much larger difference on dual crown forks than single crown. I’m 150lbs on a heavy day, and the only time I notice flex in my 36 (170/27.5) is diving into tight pocketed corners and feeling the fork twist. I haven’t spent any time on a 38mm fork, so can’t say towards that. I have a small amount of time on an EXT Era, not enough to determine flex. But enough to know it feels amazing out of the box, and I appreciate their approach vs going to a larger stanchion. The lefty Supermax is a good example. “Dual crown” 1.5 steer, and one 36mm stanchion.
As Camp said though, big forks look dope. Former 1.5” Totem owner here FWIW.
What are you actually feeling in regards to flex? The 38 addressed flex in a few ways. Oval steertube, and larger crown overlap on the stanchion.
I haven’t ridden a 38 or a Zeb but I can say that I definitely feel more confidence from the front end precision that I get with my Boxxer. I weigh about 75kg so not super heavy. Dual crown is the ultimate way to get chassis stiffness so if the bigger stantions get a step closer then great. A mainstream dual crown enduro fork weighing 2.1kg would be even better, and without needing the large seals and bushes that add to friction. Unfortunately fashion dictates that it wouldn’t sell so we get big lowers instead.
This new decade brings with it what seems to be a new standard in the [b]Fox 38[/b] and [b]RockShox Zeb[/b]. The market didn't catch on when...
This new decade brings with it what seems to be a new standard in the Fox 38 and RockShox Zeb. The market didn't catch on when the Totem arrived back in the day, but it seems larger stanchions are now here to stay.
Having tried the uber stiff Suntour Durolux 36 (try it, it definitely feels more robust than the Lyrik/Fox36), I hesitate jumping on the hypewagon for the practical reason that I don't think I need the extra stiffness and weight.
However, it seems the Lyrik and the 36 are slowly being eased out of many of the top-shelf enduro OEM builds from bike manufacturers.
Will lighter riders actually benefit from these stiffer forks?
I weigh 60kg/132lb and I prefer a stiffer fork which is why I don't run a single crown fork. I have had a Yari and a 36 and can say the flex under braking is terrible! From the reviews I have read the new 38 and Zeb aren't much better. I will stick to my Dorado for now.
I haven’t ridden a 38 or a Zeb but I can say that I definitely feel more confidence from the front end precision that I get...
I haven’t ridden a 38 or a Zeb but I can say that I definitely feel more confidence from the front end precision that I get with my Boxxer. I weigh about 75kg so not super heavy. Dual crown is the ultimate way to get chassis stiffness so if the bigger stantions get a step closer then great. A mainstream dual crown enduro fork weighing 2.1kg would be even better, and without needing the large seals and bushes that add to friction. Unfortunately fashion dictates that it wouldn’t sell so we get big lowers instead.
DC forks looks ugly, however outperform any SC at any circumstances;
I believe in 3-5 years we (as consumers) will adopt DC fork's for enduro and trail usage; however marketing department need to did huge brainwash
My two cents is: No lighter riders definitely don’t benefit. I have heard people say the that Zeb and the 38 feel more supple of the...
My two cents is: No lighter riders definitely don’t benefit. I have heard people say the that Zeb and the 38 feel more supple of the top than a Lyrik and 36 respectively, but again I disagree. I experimented with a 38 on my Enduro after a year for riding it with a 36, and honestly if felt just as good, but not better. Frankly for my 180lb butt the 36 would be my preferred choice under 180mm of travel. Another example is that I can’t stand to ride a 34 even with the grip2 damper because I can feel the flex take my front wheel off line when I’m charging in chunk. I can not speak for a Lyrik vs a Zeb to be fair.
Bottom line: If I were building up and enduro race bike personally it would be a 36. If I were building up a bike primarily being ridden in the bike park sure give me the 38. Cheers
Totally agree with this. I'm pretty light but ride aggressively and would much rather have a Fox 36/Lyric over the bigger models. Weight isn't everything but it's definitely something and I'd rather save the weight where it isn't providing me any real benefit.
I went from a 170mm 36 on my Megatower to a 180mm Zeb and I'm roundly impressed by the new fork and pleased with the change. It's a huge improvement over the 36 it replaced in every respect. Yes, I can definitely feel the increased stiffness, but I appreciate the more linear air spring and I like the taller stack height.
Things I didn't like on the 36: Even with no tokens installed on the 36, I couldn't get bottom out without running a ton of sag. The air spring was just too progressive, and I either had to choose between running lower PSI and a fork that was super wallow-y and divey off the top, or more PSI and having effectively a 140mm travel fork. I could not get bottom out and was hitting a harsh wall in the travel. Regarding stiffness, yes, absolutely the 170mm 29er 36 is flexy, but I'm sure most people can't feel it. I'm a 190-pound former pro downhill racer who rides 20 pounds heavier than I weigh. I'm hard on equipment and I break everything I touch. My needs are going to be different than most riders' needs, but yes the 36 was downright sketchy flexy on true rough downhill trails.
Something worth mentioning is the effect of wheel size on fork stiffness. All things being equal, a 29er fork is going to be roughly 20mm longer than a similar travel 27.5 fork, so fork stiffness is going to be much more a problem for long travel 29er forks. I was never bummed about the stiffness of my 27.5 36. With my 170mm 29er 36 on dry pavement, if I jammed hard on the front brake I could watch the fork flex by an inch or more with my eyeballs. Yikes.
With the Zeb I have more travel, a higher BB and slacker HA, more stiffness and confidence, and I can use all my travel. It's pretty great. Something that's funny is I'm running the $800 Zeb Select with the simple Charger damper, and it's totally fine. I'm in no way bummed to be missing out on 4 dials for HSC, LSR, HSC, and LSC. I think spring rate is 100 times more important than damper settings, so for me the better air spring curve far outweighs the missing knobs. This is my first non-Fox fork in over a decade, and I'm happy as a clam.
I've had a 38 since their release. My 2 cents.
Summary: Unless you are 100kg (225lb) or on an ebike stay with what you have and...
I've had a 38 since their release. My 2 cents.
Summary: Unless you are 100kg (225lb) or on an ebike stay with what you have and mod the fork.
I put my 38 on my ebike originally, this is where is makes the most sense. You actually notice the stiffness difference here and the added unsprung mass of the bike makes the fork work better than on a "non assisted" lighter machine.
I swapped the 38 onto my Commencal Meta AM29, usually I run a 36 with Vorsprung Coil conversion and a tuned damper. The stiffness wasn't as noticeable and the coil fork surpassed it in performance.
Also factor in the 38 is 25mm or so longer in A2C than your equivalent travel Fox 36. On my Ebike, which was teetering on too small already, the added stack (even with no spacers and a flat headset dust cap) means the reach is too short now. I definitely noticed this.
The 38 air spring is definately better, I'll give them that. The Damper is same as normal Grip2 just the HSC isn't as firm and is a tad easier to tune.
Don't rush out to get one, it's good but put that money towards some mods for your 36/Lyrik.
The A2C difference is closer to 5 mm, not 25 mm difference between the 38 and 36
I have the '21 version of both the 36 and 38. The 38 is definitely the more plush fork and provides a little more direct connection at the extreme end of the performance envelope. For most riders I agree, stick with what you have unless you are on an eBike or a heavy rider pushing very hard. The difference is subtle and not OMG this is amazing.
One thing to be aware of is that the 38 is not as easily serviceable as the 36. The tube in tube air spring requires a bench vise and soft jaws for the air spring service. You cannot simply pull the air spring apart when you drop the lowers like you can on the 36. The tube in tube setup is also where most of the extra weight comes from when comparing the forks.
The A2C difference is closer to 5 mm, not 25 mm difference between the 38 and 36
https://www.ridefox.com/fox17/help.php?m=bike&id=1089
https://www.ridefox.com/fox17/help.php?m=bike&id=1090
I have the '21 version of both...
The A2C difference is closer to 5 mm, not 25 mm difference between the 38 and 36
I have the '21 version of both the 36 and 38. The 38 is definitely the more plush fork and provides a little more direct connection at the extreme end of the performance envelope. For most riders I agree, stick with what you have unless you are on an eBike or a heavy rider pushing very hard. The difference is subtle and not OMG this is amazing.
One thing to be aware of is that the 38 is not as easily serviceable as the 36. The tube in tube air spring requires a bench vise and soft jaws for the air spring service. You cannot simply pull the air spring apart when you drop the lowers like you can on the 36. The tube in tube setup is also where most of the extra weight comes from when comparing the forks.
I think he was ref. to the diff between '20 fox 36 and the new 38s.
Basically, if you want to put a 180 Zeb on a bike that had a '19-20 fox 36 from stock..., you're effed!
The A2C difference is closer to 5 mm, not 25 mm difference between the 38 and 36
https://www.ridefox.com/fox17/help.php?m=bike&id=1089
https://www.ridefox.com/fox17/help.php?m=bike&id=1090
I have the '21 version of both...
The A2C difference is closer to 5 mm, not 25 mm difference between the 38 and 36
I have the '21 version of both the 36 and 38. The 38 is definitely the more plush fork and provides a little more direct connection at the extreme end of the performance envelope. For most riders I agree, stick with what you have unless you are on an eBike or a heavy rider pushing very hard. The difference is subtle and not OMG this is amazing.
One thing to be aware of is that the 38 is not as easily serviceable as the 36. The tube in tube air spring requires a bench vise and soft jaws for the air spring service. You cannot simply pull the air spring apart when you drop the lowers like you can on the 36. The tube in tube setup is also where most of the extra weight comes from when comparing the forks.
I think he was ref. to the diff between '20 fox 36 and the new 38s.
Basically, if you want to put a 180 Zeb on...
I think he was ref. to the diff between '20 fox 36 and the new 38s.
Basically, if you want to put a 180 Zeb on a bike that had a '19-20 fox 36 from stock..., you're effed!
Even based on your graph... going from the '19-20 180mm Fox 36 to a Zeb is only a 9mm difference. Most people have that much or more in spacers under their stems. And it's more likely people will go from a '19-20 180mm Fox 36 to a 38 which is only a 6mm difference... or go from a Lyik to a Zeb which is only a 4mm difference. Not a big issue and definitely not "effed", haha.
If you're 100 kg, I think you'd be much happier sticking with the Zeb Select over the 36. My two cents. If you want a more sensitive fork, try messing with rebound, compression, air pressure, and air volume until you get there. The Zeb Select is more than adjustable enough for anyone short of a pro EWS racer.
5 ways to make your Zeb more sensitive:
1. Open up compression
2. Open up rebound
3. Add a volume reducer and lower air pressure for sensitivity in the first 1/3 of travel
4. Pull out a volume reducer and increase air pressure for more sensitivity further into your travel
5. Service your lowers. New oil and dynamic seal grease makes any fork more sensitive.
If you're 100 kg, I think you'd be much happier sticking with the Zeb Select over the 36. My two cents. If you want a more...
If you're 100 kg, I think you'd be much happier sticking with the Zeb Select over the 36. My two cents. If you want a more sensitive fork, try messing with rebound, compression, air pressure, and air volume until you get there. The Zeb Select is more than adjustable enough for anyone short of a pro EWS racer.
5 ways to make your Zeb more sensitive:
1. Open up compression
2. Open up rebound
3. Add a volume reducer and lower air pressure for sensitivity in the first 1/3 of travel
4. Pull out a volume reducer and increase air pressure for more sensitivity further into your travel
5. Service your lowers. New oil and dynamic seal grease makes any fork more sensitive.
1. compression is full open
2. rebound is open as far as i can handle
3. tried tons of pressures and it feels harsh, i'm below 20 psi from recommended now
4. tried 1 spacer 2 spacer still the same
5. serviced lowers, damper and spring still same, it looks sensitive but (edit) feels really harsh over my old lyrik
The fox i'm looking is cheaper than my fork and i don't think spending money on custom damper shimming or some bushing alignment is worth it over buying the grip 2 but i never used fox and looking to hear opinions
Also i'm a weekend rider and don't benefit from the stiffness gains at all
Food for thought, after a fresh full service of my RC2 Lyrik, which included the new airspring, the fork felt really weird. It felt harsh. I had it pumped up too high, so I was letting out airpressure mid ride, clicking everything, with no apparent effect (I was in panic mode essentially). I reset everything and I think the situation is getting better. But yeah, new air spring, more harshness. I've seen reviews stating more or less the same too.
I was on the new airspring before, but I tried it out last autumn after 3 months off the bike, so couldn't really compare. That's why I went back to the old spring for a few months now, mid May to mid July. I still think I preferred the old spring. I think I might change it over once more soon.
If you're 20 psi below recommended pressure with your compression wide open, that's waaay too soft, especially considering the Zeb doesn't run much pressure in the first place. I'm 86 kg and I have 72 psi in my Zeb, so 20 psi less for me would be almost 30% softer than what I'm running. That's like me running a setup for a 62 kg rider.
Based on what you're describing, it sounds like your fork feels harsh because it's too soft, not too hard. If your fork is too soft and sits too far into its travel, you run into two problems:
1. Your fork is likely to dive when you brake and when you hit bumps. This causes your weight to shift forward excessively, which causes your fork to dive even further. This creates a downward spiral, because...
2. If you're deep into your travel, you're sitting further down on the spring curve and you're going to feel like you're running up against a wall in the travel. BOOM BOOM BOOM you're hitting bumps but your fork isn't moving enough to absorb them because you're slammed against your fork's bottom out ramp up.
These two factors combine to make you ride your brakes even more, preventing your fork from rising in the travel and getting out of the harsh end-of-stroke region in the travel. It might be helpful to remove all volume reducers, run more psi, and add a little compression so your fork can stand higher in the travel. When you add compression, you'll also be able to run the rebound a little more open because your fork will automatically feel more stable from the low-speed compression. The faster rebound will allow your fork to extend before hitting the next bump, which means you're hitting bumps at a softer spring rate, making your fork more sensitive. It might feel weird at first to have your bars so high through bumps and when braking, but I hope you try it long enough to really give it a shot.
Again, I just can't believe the fork is the problem unless there's something profoundly wrong with your bushings or lowers.
If you're 20 psi below recommended pressure with your compression wide open, that's waaay too soft, especially considering the Zeb doesn't run much pressure in the...
If you're 20 psi below recommended pressure with your compression wide open, that's waaay too soft, especially considering the Zeb doesn't run much pressure in the first place. I'm 86 kg and I have 72 psi in my Zeb, so 20 psi less for me would be almost 30% softer than what I'm running. That's like me running a setup for a 62 kg rider.
Based on what you're describing, it sounds like your fork feels harsh because it's too soft, not too hard. If your fork is too soft and sits too far into its travel, you run into two problems:
1. Your fork is likely to dive when you brake and when you hit bumps. This causes your weight to shift forward excessively, which causes your fork to dive even further. This creates a downward spiral, because...
2. If you're deep into your travel, you're sitting further down on the spring curve and you're going to feel like you're running up against a wall in the travel. BOOM BOOM BOOM you're hitting bumps but your fork isn't moving enough to absorb them because you're slammed against your fork's bottom out ramp up.
These two factors combine to make you ride your brakes even more, preventing your fork from rising in the travel and getting out of the harsh end-of-stroke region in the travel. It might be helpful to remove all volume reducers, run more psi, and add a little compression so your fork can stand higher in the travel. When you add compression, you'll also be able to run the rebound a little more open because your fork will automatically feel more stable from the low-speed compression. The faster rebound will allow your fork to extend before hitting the next bump, which means you're hitting bumps at a softer spring rate, making your fork more sensitive. It might feel weird at first to have your bars so high through bumps and when braking, but I hope you try it long enough to really give it a shot.
Again, I just can't believe the fork is the problem unless there's something profoundly wrong with your bushings or lowers.
Thanks for the explanation but the thing is my sag is compeletly normal, i have 58 psi and my sag is 25-27% which is the thing that felt weird from the start
Thanks for the explanation but the thing is my sag is compeletly normal, i have 58 psi and my sag is 25-27% which is the thing...
Thanks for the explanation but the thing is my sag is compeletly normal, i have 58 psi and my sag is 25-27% which is the thing that felt weird from the start
Fork is 190 travel
That's too much sag, especially for a 190mm travel fork on what I presume is a very slack bike. How are you measuring that?
That's too much sag, especially for a 190mm travel fork on what I presume is a very slack bike. How are you measuring that?
It's a 2017 enduro, 64.5 hta with current setup. I measure it with weighing the handlebar, i can't use less sag because as i said the fork is harsh
And looks like its %20
If you're 20 psi below recommended pressure with your compression wide open, that's waaay too soft, especially considering the Zeb doesn't run much pressure in the...
If you're 20 psi below recommended pressure with your compression wide open, that's waaay too soft, especially considering the Zeb doesn't run much pressure in the first place. I'm 86 kg and I have 72 psi in my Zeb, so 20 psi less for me would be almost 30% softer than what I'm running. That's like me running a setup for a 62 kg rider.
Based on what you're describing, it sounds like your fork feels harsh because it's too soft, not too hard. If your fork is too soft and sits too far into its travel, you run into two problems:
1. Your fork is likely to dive when you brake and when you hit bumps. This causes your weight to shift forward excessively, which causes your fork to dive even further. This creates a downward spiral, because...
2. If you're deep into your travel, you're sitting further down on the spring curve and you're going to feel like you're running up against a wall in the travel. BOOM BOOM BOOM you're hitting bumps but your fork isn't moving enough to absorb them because you're slammed against your fork's bottom out ramp up.
These two factors combine to make you ride your brakes even more, preventing your fork from rising in the travel and getting out of the harsh end-of-stroke region in the travel. It might be helpful to remove all volume reducers, run more psi, and add a little compression so your fork can stand higher in the travel. When you add compression, you'll also be able to run the rebound a little more open because your fork will automatically feel more stable from the low-speed compression. The faster rebound will allow your fork to extend before hitting the next bump, which means you're hitting bumps at a softer spring rate, making your fork more sensitive. It might feel weird at first to have your bars so high through bumps and when braking, but I hope you try it long enough to really give it a shot.
Again, I just can't believe the fork is the problem unless there's something profoundly wrong with your bushings or lowers.
Thanks for the explanation but the thing is my sag is compeletly normal, i have 58 psi and my sag is 25-27% which is the thing...
Thanks for the explanation but the thing is my sag is compeletly normal, i have 58 psi and my sag is 25-27% which is the thing that felt weird from the start
Fork is 190 travel
You run way too much SAG this only confirms everything TeamRobot was explaining. Go for a 15% SAG to start with, apply the tips from TR, get used to it and see what happens. It might feel hard on the carpark but the good news is, you don't ride their.
This is simple to verify. How much travel do you use?
The case that I mentioned above, where my fork (with the new spring) felt harsh, in that case I was missing the last 20 to 30 mm of travel on a 150 mm fork. That's clear as day that the fork was too stiff.
If you're using all the travel, try running less sag, as has been mentioned. I generally run a lot less sag on my fork than on the front of the bike. I tune the rear to hit the 30-ish (or 25 to 30) % sag range and prevent bottom out, while at the front I set it up so I use all the travel, whatever the sag comes out to.
This is simple to verify. How much travel do you use?
The case that I mentioned above, where my fork (with the new spring) felt harsh...
This is simple to verify. How much travel do you use?
The case that I mentioned above, where my fork (with the new spring) felt harsh, in that case I was missing the last 20 to 30 mm of travel on a 150 mm fork. That's clear as day that the fork was too stiff.
If you're using all the travel, try running less sag, as has been mentioned. I generally run a lot less sag on my fork than on the front of the bike. I tune the rear to hit the 30-ish (or 25 to 30) % sag range and prevent bottom out, while at the front I set it up so I use all the travel, whatever the sag comes out to.
Yeah i always go based on psi, that's why the sag i said differed when i posted the image, i didn't know how much i run until i measured but the odd thing is i've never been able to bottom the fork out, i even dropped the pressure to 45 psi (40ish sag) and the fork didn't fully bottomed out on that setup too around 5mm left. video on that setup;
With my current setup i can't bottom out there is 2 2.5 cm dead travel at the end, if i want to get closer to bottom out i have to use less pressure but then i loose all the mid stroke support and already harsh fork becomes harsher as i'm pretty much in the mid stroke when i sag
Took TR's advice last March and got the Zeb Select (instead of the Ultimate). Stiff but really supple fork out of the box. Tuning it was so easy too.
Bike got really slack on mullet mode with the higher stack height so put a 29er at the back to even things out (amongst other adjustments). I have an AL Kona Process 153 and the changes felt like new bike day. Bike became more manageable in the rough stuff but had to learn not to brake too late.
After a couple of rides I had to change my rotors to 203mm front and back. It definitely feels faster (amazing grip) and confidence-inspiring. No regrets with the added weight; I'm 145 lbs (65 kg) in full kit.
Non-stiffness thoughts:
There's was a 20 hour break in period for me until the bushings widened out some, so wait until then for judging it.
Overall I'm faster, but I do miss a few things. The Zeb (and maybe 38) axle to crown is almost a cm taller than 36/Lyriks and I had to remove that much stack worth of spacers and a bit more because... the C1 air spring rides weirdly tall. It's impossible to get over 20% sag unless you go 10 psi under the recommended pressure and then the fork feels worse overall for it. Part of it can be mitigated by cockpit setup, but I just think the combo of factors makes it feel too tall, and cornering especially suffers. Folks who have a slammed stem already would likely be f'd going to this fork.
I've inspected all the fluids and replaced them with a variety of OE and alternatives a few times. The OE fluids/grease aren't the greatest, and I'm actually happiest running a light coat of slick honey on the airspring and other sliding surfaces and then use fox gold for the 20wt, which is noticeably better than OE RockShox stuff.
From what I read about the Zeb, the main increase in stiffness over the 35mm chassis was in torsional stiffness.
I definitely don't want more torsional stiffness. I have a Dorado on my DH bike and I love the way the front wheel tracks with the little bit of extra torsional compliance, particularly on off camber. I can hold a high line much easier in a loose off camber section than someone on a 40 or Boxxer.
My new bike that is on the way will have an Ohlins RXF36 coil!
As Camp said though, big forks look dope. Former 1.5” Totem owner here FWIW.
What are you actually feeling in regards to flex? The 38 addressed flex in a few ways. Oval steertube, and larger crown overlap on the stanchion.
Food for thought.
https://m.pinkbike.com/news/intends-new-stem-actually-improves-cockpit-…
I believe in 3-5 years we (as consumers) will adopt DC fork's for enduro and trail usage; however marketing department need to did huge brainwash
Things I didn't like on the 36: Even with no tokens installed on the 36, I couldn't get bottom out without running a ton of sag. The air spring was just too progressive, and I either had to choose between running lower PSI and a fork that was super wallow-y and divey off the top, or more PSI and having effectively a 140mm travel fork. I could not get bottom out and was hitting a harsh wall in the travel. Regarding stiffness, yes, absolutely the 170mm 29er 36 is flexy, but I'm sure most people can't feel it. I'm a 190-pound former pro downhill racer who rides 20 pounds heavier than I weigh. I'm hard on equipment and I break everything I touch. My needs are going to be different than most riders' needs, but yes the 36 was downright sketchy flexy on true rough downhill trails.
Something worth mentioning is the effect of wheel size on fork stiffness. All things being equal, a 29er fork is going to be roughly 20mm longer than a similar travel 27.5 fork, so fork stiffness is going to be much more a problem for long travel 29er forks. I was never bummed about the stiffness of my 27.5 36. With my 170mm 29er 36 on dry pavement, if I jammed hard on the front brake I could watch the fork flex by an inch or more with my eyeballs. Yikes.
With the Zeb I have more travel, a higher BB and slacker HA, more stiffness and confidence, and I can use all my travel. It's pretty great. Something that's funny is I'm running the $800 Zeb Select with the simple Charger damper, and it's totally fine. I'm in no way bummed to be missing out on 4 dials for HSC, LSR, HSC, and LSC. I think spring rate is 100 times more important than damper settings, so for me the better air spring curve far outweighs the missing knobs. This is my first non-Fox fork in over a decade, and I'm happy as a clam.
https://www.ridefox.com/fox17/help.php?m=bike&id=1089
https://www.ridefox.com/fox17/help.php?m=bike&id=1090
I have the '21 version of both the 36 and 38. The 38 is definitely the more plush fork and provides a little more direct connection at the extreme end of the performance envelope. For most riders I agree, stick with what you have unless you are on an eBike or a heavy rider pushing very hard. The difference is subtle and not OMG this is amazing.
One thing to be aware of is that the 38 is not as easily serviceable as the 36. The tube in tube air spring requires a bench vise and soft jaws for the air spring service. You cannot simply pull the air spring apart when you drop the lowers like you can on the 36. The tube in tube setup is also where most of the extra weight comes from when comparing the forks.
Basically, if you want to put a 180 Zeb on a bike that had a '19-20 fox 36 from stock..., you're effed!
I have a Zeb select (rc damper) and found a very good deal on a brand new 36 grip 2 2020, what changes i should expect when i switch over?
I'm 100kg and i want a more sensitive fork, had a lyrik b1 shaft before zeb and i didn't noticed much change on stiffnes
thanks.
5 ways to make your Zeb more sensitive:
1. Open up compression
2. Open up rebound
3. Add a volume reducer and lower air pressure for sensitivity in the first 1/3 of travel
4. Pull out a volume reducer and increase air pressure for more sensitivity further into your travel
5. Service your lowers. New oil and dynamic seal grease makes any fork more sensitive.
I’ve had good luck mixing slick honey with oil for the foam rings. Seems to stay lubricated better than just oil.
2. rebound is open as far as i can handle
3. tried tons of pressures and it feels harsh, i'm below 20 psi from recommended now
4. tried 1 spacer 2 spacer still the same
5. serviced lowers, damper and spring still same, it looks sensitive but (edit) feels really harsh over my old lyrik
The fox i'm looking is cheaper than my fork and i don't think spending money on custom damper shimming or some bushing alignment is worth it over buying the grip 2 but i never used fox and looking to hear opinions
Also i'm a weekend rider and don't benefit from the stiffness gains at all
I was on the new airspring before, but I tried it out last autumn after 3 months off the bike, so couldn't really compare. That's why I went back to the old spring for a few months now, mid May to mid July. I still think I preferred the old spring. I think I might change it over once more soon.
Based on what you're describing, it sounds like your fork feels harsh because it's too soft, not too hard. If your fork is too soft and sits too far into its travel, you run into two problems:
1. Your fork is likely to dive when you brake and when you hit bumps. This causes your weight to shift forward excessively, which causes your fork to dive even further. This creates a downward spiral, because...
2. If you're deep into your travel, you're sitting further down on the spring curve and you're going to feel like you're running up against a wall in the travel. BOOM BOOM BOOM you're hitting bumps but your fork isn't moving enough to absorb them because you're slammed against your fork's bottom out ramp up.
These two factors combine to make you ride your brakes even more, preventing your fork from rising in the travel and getting out of the harsh end-of-stroke region in the travel. It might be helpful to remove all volume reducers, run more psi, and add a little compression so your fork can stand higher in the travel. When you add compression, you'll also be able to run the rebound a little more open because your fork will automatically feel more stable from the low-speed compression. The faster rebound will allow your fork to extend before hitting the next bump, which means you're hitting bumps at a softer spring rate, making your fork more sensitive. It might feel weird at first to have your bars so high through bumps and when braking, but I hope you try it long enough to really give it a shot.
Again, I just can't believe the fork is the problem unless there's something profoundly wrong with your bushings or lowers.
Fork is 190 travel
And looks like its %20
The case that I mentioned above, where my fork (with the new spring) felt harsh, in that case I was missing the last 20 to 30 mm of travel on a 150 mm fork. That's clear as day that the fork was too stiff.
If you're using all the travel, try running less sag, as has been mentioned. I generally run a lot less sag on my fork than on the front of the bike. I tune the rear to hit the 30-ish (or 25 to 30) % sag range and prevent bottom out, while at the front I set it up so I use all the travel, whatever the sag comes out to.
With my current setup i can't bottom out there is 2 2.5 cm dead travel at the end, if i want to get closer to bottom out i have to use less pressure but then i loose all the mid stroke support and already harsh fork becomes harsher as i'm pretty much in the mid stroke when i sag
Have you had any servicing done to it?
Bike got really slack on mullet mode with the higher stack height so put a 29er at the back to even things out (amongst other adjustments). I have an AL Kona Process 153 and the changes felt like new bike day. Bike became more manageable in the rough stuff but had to learn not to brake too late.
After a couple of rides I had to change my rotors to 203mm front and back. It definitely feels faster (amazing grip) and confidence-inspiring. No regrets with the added weight; I'm 145 lbs (65 kg) in full kit.
Post a reply to: Will lighter riders benefit from an RS Zeb or Fox 38?