MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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Prototype
TheShortestCharles 6/8/2021 12:03pm
6/8/2021 12:03pm
slimshady wrote:
It's something like the old Equilink system Felt used to sport back in the day, isn't it?
I can't see the lower link, but judging by the vertical link it seems like it's the same as the Equilink system. I think Felt used that up until 2019, or at least that's the latest I can find.
bermslapper69 6/8/2021 12:33pm
6/8/2021 12:33pm Edited Date/Time 6/8/2021 12:37pm
New evil insurgent. Full details are up on their website. 168mm rear with mullet or full 27.5 setups available. Seems like every brand is hopping on the mullet bandwagon now. Also up on the vital homepage

iceman2058 6/8/2021 12:43pm
6/8/2021 12:43pm
Get the goods on the new Insurgent HERE.
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Moosey
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Moosey 6/8/2021 12:55pm
6/8/2021 12:55pm
TheShortestCharles wrote:
I can't see the lower link, but judging by the vertical link it seems like it's the same as the Equilink system. I think Felt used...
I can't see the lower link, but judging by the vertical link it seems like it's the same as the Equilink system. I think Felt used that up until 2019, or at least that's the latest I can find.
Definitely similar to equilink, I'm guessing the lower link 'grows' a lot through the travel. It might not be a high pivot bike, but it's defo got a very rearward axle path, hence the idler. Seems like they tested the more simple high single pivot to focus on the rearward axle path and chain growth first, but now that that's dialed they're thinking "let's keep a good rearward axle path but see where we can make improvements over a single pivot." Defo the next step.

If it is close to equilink suspension like I assume, I'd be tempted to look into one. Had an old ass compulsion (2009 frame) but I rode it for years, absolutely loved the rear suspension. The rest of the geo was pretty rough, but the rear suspension always felt great. Even when I ran it as a slopestyle bike, 100% solid.
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Jason_Schroeder 6/8/2021 1:21pm
6/8/2021 1:21pm
It does appear the instant center on the new prototype is lower than the previous Supreme, thus the "virtual high pivot" is lower than previous physical high pivot. I am having a hard time figuring out what's going on with the lower links though and the lack of detailed photos seems deliberate.

I'm sure we'll see more photos through the weekend.



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Primoz
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Primoz 6/8/2021 1:54pm
6/8/2021 1:54pm
@Jason your IC drawing is not correct, the chainstay has another link attaching it to the front triangle.

And yeah, it is very much what Felt used with the Equilink. Color me impressed, Commencal bucking the single pivot trend!
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RiderMikeCheck1 6/8/2021 2:42pm
6/8/2021 2:42pm
slimshady wrote:
It's something like the old Equilink system Felt used to sport back in the day, isn't it?
Wow, yea looks VERY much like Equilink:

https://youtu.be/5ovNYybL2OE?t=214
This video gets interesting at ~3:35min

If what they're saying in here is true, it's surprising Equilink didn't get more attention. Maybe it will now under Commencal.
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Jason_Schroeder 6/8/2021 3:11pm
6/8/2021 3:11pm
Primoz wrote:
@Jason your IC drawing is not correct, the chainstay has another link attaching it to the front triangle. And yeah, it is very much what Felt...
@Jason your IC drawing is not correct, the chainstay has another link attaching it to the front triangle.

And yeah, it is very much what Felt used with the Equilink. Color me impressed, Commencal bucking the single pivot trend!
You are right - despite my zoom-in efforts I missed that lower link. From my amateur suspension analysis, in that case it should put the virtual pivot in a similar high position as the current Supreme. High pivot riders rejoice Wink

Also some tight cable routing with this current prototype, wonder if the rear brake looks the same.

jonkranked
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jonkranked 6/8/2021 3:21pm
6/8/2021 3:21pm
saw this on that other site.


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mfoga
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mfoga 6/8/2021 4:19pm
6/8/2021 4:19pm
Big ring , middle ring and small ring, at that moment I was like how old is this video.
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Primoz
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Primoz 6/9/2021 2:18am
6/9/2021 2:18am
Jason the pivot actually doesn't look all that high. The instant centre of rotation for the seat stay (the link the axle is on) is in the crossover of the chainstays and the top link. Which is quite similar to what you drew, but a bit lower still!

While the pivot is relatively low, and will be like that through most of the travel, the axle path is still rearwards as the bottom pivot rotates backwards and essentially lengthens the rear end. I suspect that's why the idler is there, to compensate for the chainstay length increasing through the travel and prevent high pedal kickback.

From the quick though that I've had about six bar linkages, I suspect it's the same as with a four bar linkage, look at the axle mounting link, take the two links defining the position of it, draw lines through the two of them and define the IC. The only catch with the IC in this case is that it will travel around more and/or differently, than with a four bar layout.
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vinicius gabrielli 6/9/2021 5:19am
6/9/2021 5:19am
new things from shimano soon? increasingly late but ok

Sonofbovril2 6/9/2021 5:38am
6/9/2021 5:38am
Looks like incremental updates at best, likely just catching up to what the rest of the Shimano range is doing.

10 tooth 7-speed cassette, which I expect can change under load, likely on microspline. Wonder if they are using a stronger wider chain or if it is just a reduced 12spd cassette and chain? An actual 7-speed design with the new shifting tech would be interesting but likely a lot of work that probably wouldn't justify the $$$...

The new derailleur looks interesting but wonder if there is actually anything new going on there?

Cranks look to be similar to typical XT style? Haven't seen the brake levers yet but I would expect them to have the new mounting design and be basically the same as the XT/XTR. The calipers look largely the same unless there is something new going on inside that they have implemented from the other 4-pot designs in the shimano range? Hopefully sorted out the pad fin rattle... and oh, the bite point wandering...?

Wonder if they have a 220mm rotor or sticking to 200mm?

jonkranked
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jonkranked 6/9/2021 6:10am
6/9/2021 6:10am
Sonofbovril2 wrote:
Looks like incremental updates at best, likely just catching up to what the rest of the Shimano range is doing. 10 tooth 7-speed cassette, which I...
Looks like incremental updates at best, likely just catching up to what the rest of the Shimano range is doing.

10 tooth 7-speed cassette, which I expect can change under load, likely on microspline. Wonder if they are using a stronger wider chain or if it is just a reduced 12spd cassette and chain? An actual 7-speed design with the new shifting tech would be interesting but likely a lot of work that probably wouldn't justify the $$$...

The new derailleur looks interesting but wonder if there is actually anything new going on there?

Cranks look to be similar to typical XT style? Haven't seen the brake levers yet but I would expect them to have the new mounting design and be basically the same as the XT/XTR. The calipers look largely the same unless there is something new going on inside that they have implemented from the other 4-pot designs in the shimano range? Hopefully sorted out the pad fin rattle... and oh, the bite point wandering...?

Wonder if they have a 220mm rotor or sticking to 200mm?

i hope the shifter gets the double downshift feature that was introduced on 11spd.

shimano recently launched 220 rotors for like cargo bikes or something, i'd be surprised if they didn't have a 220 rotor with the new saint group.
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juliusk 6/9/2021 6:37am
6/9/2021 6:37am
jonkranked wrote:
i hope the shifter gets the double downshift feature that was introduced on 11spd. shimano recently launched 220 rotors for like cargo bikes or something, i'd...
i hope the shifter gets the double downshift feature that was introduced on 11spd.

shimano recently launched 220 rotors for like cargo bikes or something, i'd be surprised if they didn't have a 220 rotor with the new saint group.
The old saint already has the double downshift and 4-times upshift
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Sonofbovril2 6/9/2021 6:43am
6/9/2021 6:43am
Well lets look at this differently, what would the wishlist for the new saint be like? where are the weaknesses that need to be addressed?
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lickmycrinkle
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lickmycrinkle 6/9/2021 8:29am
6/9/2021 8:29am


That X01 crank isn't something that looks like it already exists.

New Schwalbe Wicked Will.

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lickmycrinkle 6/9/2021 8:35am
6/9/2021 8:35am
lickmycrinkle wrote:
[img]https://i.imgur.com/2CRc2Cu.jpg[/img] That X01 crank isn't something that looks like it already exists. New Schwalbe Wicked Will.


That X01 crank isn't something that looks like it already exists.

New Schwalbe Wicked Will.

Also in grey sidewall.

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mitch160 6/9/2021 9:22am
6/9/2021 9:22am Edited Date/Time 6/9/2021 9:25am
lickmycrinkle wrote:
[img]https://i.imgur.com/2CRc2Cu.jpg[/img] That X01 crank isn't something that looks like it already exists. New Schwalbe Wicked Will.


That X01 crank isn't something that looks like it already exists.

New Schwalbe Wicked Will.

Am I just not seeing colour right or is that a grey xx1 cassette like a grey first 11 cogs plus a black 12th gear?

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Masjo 6/9/2021 9:34am
6/9/2021 9:34am
Coming from the gravel/road scene, VeloNews published an article on unreleased gravel bikes being ridden at Unbound. My eye was caught by the new Trek Checkpoint, specifically the cassette which to my eye/counting looks like it has a 40-44 tooth cog. I assume this would be a new 12-speed option for SRAM using the XD or XDr freehub with a 10-tooth small cog and could be appealing to those looking for a smaller cassette like Shimano's 10-45.
I assume Eagle derailleurs would be able to deal with this, though curiously the bike has a Red eTap derailleur, which is currently only offered with a 33 tooth max option. Maybe this will be a crossover item for gravel and MTB?
Link: https://www.velonews.com/gallery/new-and-unreleased-trek-checkpoint-fel…
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bermslapper69 6/9/2021 11:10am
6/9/2021 11:10am
Microspline on Luca’s new wheel confirms there’s a new cassette. OR they’re using a reduced 12 speed cassette and chain to get the hyperglide+
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Darth_Sloth 6/9/2021 11:26am
6/9/2021 11:26am
New (unwrapped) Pivot enduro bike? Seen in the background of the latest Bernard Kerr LSD.



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bermslapper69 6/9/2021 11:29am
6/9/2021 11:29am
Darth_Sloth wrote:
New (unwrapped) Pivot enduro bike? Seen in the background of the latest Bernard Kerr LSD. [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2021/06/09/10926/s1200_Screenshot_2021_06_09_at_19.21.28.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2021/06/09/10927/s1200_Screenshot_2021_06_09_at_19.21.51.jpg[/img]
New (unwrapped) Pivot enduro bike? Seen in the background of the latest Bernard Kerr LSD.



Just a Mach 6
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dolface 6/9/2021 12:40pm
6/9/2021 12:40pm Edited Date/Time 6/9/2021 12:41pm
bermslapper69 wrote:
Just a Mach 6
There was a clip of BK manualing a red something w/ an orange 36/38 in someone's story (forget whose), and another clip of it wrapped in the background of one of the pit set-up clips.
dolface
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dolface 6/9/2021 12:49pm
6/9/2021 12:49pm
dolface wrote:
There was a clip of BK manualing a red something w/ an orange 36/38 in someone's story (forget whose), and another clip of it wrapped in...
There was a clip of BK manualing a red something w/ an orange 36/38 in someone's story (forget whose), and another clip of it wrapped in the background of one of the pit set-up clips.
Forgot I grabbed a screenshot
Robert_Havill 6/9/2021 1:45pm
6/9/2021 1:45pm
Non drive side photos of the new commencal

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Primoz
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Primoz 6/9/2021 2:09pm
6/9/2021 2:09pm Edited Date/Time 6/9/2021 2:42pm
Primoz wrote:
Jason the pivot actually doesn't look all that high. The instant centre of rotation for the seat stay (the link the axle is on) is in...
Jason the pivot actually doesn't look all that high. The instant centre of rotation for the seat stay (the link the axle is on) is in the crossover of the chainstays and the top link. Which is quite similar to what you drew, but a bit lower still!

While the pivot is relatively low, and will be like that through most of the travel, the axle path is still rearwards as the bottom pivot rotates backwards and essentially lengthens the rear end. I suspect that's why the idler is there, to compensate for the chainstay length increasing through the travel and prevent high pedal kickback.

From the quick though that I've had about six bar linkages, I suspect it's the same as with a four bar linkage, look at the axle mounting link, take the two links defining the position of it, draw lines through the two of them and define the IC. The only catch with the IC in this case is that it will travel around more and/or differently, than with a four bar layout.


Pinkbike's suspension geometry guessing with my IC estimations laid over (the thick lines). This is based on my quoted ramblings on the previous page about the two links connecting to the 'axle link' define the IC of the 'axle link', thus driving the antisquat and brake jack calculations.

EDIT: I'm doubting the correctness of all of this.
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mwolpin 6/9/2021 2:38pm
6/9/2021 2:38pm
PinkBike has a number of close-ups of the unbranded cranks and derailleur on Syndicate bikes. They're also assuming it's all new Saint components.
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