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5/28/2021 3:23 PM

How does the idler change the chain wrap situation? How does it change it when you're dealing with the chain unwrapping from the other side of the chainring?

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5/28/2021 3:30 PM

Transition dropping something else with the spire? Ebike?

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5/28/2021 3:37 PM

New Transition mullet patrol and big travel 170 29” out any day!

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5/28/2021 4:22 PM

Primoz wrote:

How does the idler change the chain wrap situation? How does it change it when you're dealing with the chain unwrapping from ...more

I'm sure somebody will yell at us for getting off topic here.

My interpretation is that you're comparing 2 very different things.

1 - Classic setup - Chain wrapped roughly halfway around a chainring. Lots of chain flapping in the breeze.

2 - Idler - Chain wrapped roughly a quarter of the way around a chainring. An idler, also with chain wrapped a quarter of the way around the thing.

There you go. Two very different things, that act in very different ways. All I'm saying is that you can't really directly compare these two things to one another and only consider one part of it. You can't say "the idler bike has less chain wrap, so it's more likely to drop a chain." It may very well be more likely to drop a chain, but the addition of the idler totally changes the equation. So making an argument solely based on chain wrap is a bit of a mistake. You shouldn't look at an idler bike and say "that has way less chain wrap than my bike, so you're probably going to drop a lot of chains." There's way more to it than that.

Like I've said a few times...I'm not saying that it isn't a factor, I'm just pointing out that there's a lot more to it than just chain wrap. The idler completely changes the way that the chain interacts with the chainring.

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5/28/2021 5:04 PM

Primoz wrote:

How does the idler change the chain wrap situation? How does it change it when you're dealing with the chain unwrapping from ...more

DirkT wrote:

I'm sure somebody will yell at us for getting off topic here.

My interpretation is that you're comparing 2 very different ...more

There's also a chainguide down there, exactly where most slop happens to be...

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5/28/2021 8:21 PM

Jon_Angieri wrote:

Just found this on vali holl YT channel. Does Cecile have a new rig? Photo

baronKanon wrote:

Isn't it just a Supreme?

jonkranked wrote:

yes, but I'm pretty sure Cecile has just been racing enduro/EWS. is she going to jump over to DH? or just likes riding DH?

She has regularly sprinkled in the occasional DH event here and there. But, as others said, she announced her retirement from competition.

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5/29/2021 2:57 AM

DirkT wrote:

I'm sure somebody will yell at us for getting off topic here.

My interpretation is that you're comparing 2 very different ...more

I regularly derail topics, so I'll go along for a short while smile

My point is that with or without an idler, the part of the chain from the chainring to the rear derailleur is the same. Having an idler or not having it will have no effect on that part, so the chain will flop around exactly the same. Therefore if it does (and it does) flop around, it can start unwrapping itself or just start to do it, then the rider backpedals aaaaand... with less than 1/4 of chainring wrap, you throw the chain off completely. Not so, when half the ring is wrapped.

And having 1/4 of the ring wrapped is the same, regardless if the chain is directed to the ring from an idler or something else. The factor with what the chain will be doing is the length of the span to the next chainring (the longer it is, the worse of course) and whether it is taught (the power carrying branch of the chain - cassette to chainring for bikes, going over the idler if it is present) or not (the idle branch, so the chainring through rear derailleur to the cassette branch for bikes).

So yeah, it's the fact that you could have the chain miss the ring and the rider backpedal that could throw the chain off the ring MUCH sooner on an idler bike compared to an idlerless bike. But that whole point is moot once you have a lower guide pulley, which Loic has.

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5/29/2021 5:03 AM

Primoz wrote:

I regularly derail topics, so I'll go along for a short while smile

My point is that with or without an idler, the part of the ...more

Has anyone asked Mitch Ropelato how he feels about idlers after dropping a chain in a race run?

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5/29/2021 12:28 PM

The new Commencal Supreme DH bike unveiled!
Photo

Photo

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5/29/2021 2:24 PM

Primoz wrote:

How does the idler change the chain wrap situation? How does it change it when you're dealing with the chain unwrapping from ...more

DirkT wrote:

I'm sure somebody will yell at us for getting off topic here.

My interpretation is that you're comparing 2 very different ...more

Primoz wrote:

I regularly derail topics, so I'll go along for a short while smile

My point is that with or without an idler, the part of the ...more

Ha ha...I mean...that's just it though. The part from the top of the chain to the cassette isn't the same. On one, it goes directly to the cassette. On the other, it has a short run to an idler, and then runs to the cassette. That's the difference! That's the point.

What causes a chain to derail? When does it happen? I would say one of the main causes would be the long, unsupported length of chain flapping around in the breeze. So, what have we done to reduce chain derailment over the last few years?

Increase Tension - Derailleur clutches. Certain old school chain tensioners.
Improve Tooth Retention - Tooth profiles. Increase wrap via certain chain retention systems.
Capture the Chain so it can't bounce off as easily - Old school MRP chain systems
Decrease chain movement - STFU

So, what happens when we add an idler to our system? We lose out on one front (chain wrap), but we improve on another (chain movement). An idler takes what was once one, long unsupported chain, and it creates two, most likely shorter, lengths of chain. It's similar to what you would get if you put a guy wire on a long stretch of unsupported cable. That short section of chain between the idler is just not going to bounce around as much as a classic, non idler drivetrain. Again, I'm not saying it's better, just different. In fact, what an idler probably does is move the most likely point of derailment from the chainring to the idler. You see lots of guide systems on the idler, as now you have a (relatively) longer stretch of unsupported chain bouncing around between the idler and the cassette. Most bike companies seem more concerned with this point, than at the chainring. How the chain interacts with the idler is at least as important as how it interacts with the chainring.

Anyhow, that's it for me. If you can't admit that a chain with and without an idler are two different things, and act differently, I don't think I can convince you otherwise. Again, I'm not trying to argue that an idler is better or worse, I'm just pointing out that it is different, has different factors at play, and should be analyzed differently. I didn't think that was a very controversial idea.

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5/29/2021 4:31 PM

I know its an average screen grab but it looks like a normal chain guide to me, have Commencal ditched the Idler Pulley ?

Photo

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5/29/2021 7:54 PM

peecee wrote:

I know its an average screen grab but it looks like a normal chain guide to me, have Commencal ditched the Idler Pulley ?

Photo

I can't tell much from this angle, but from the previous photos of the non-drive side, the main pivot still seems fairly high (enough that it would 'require' an idler)

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5/29/2021 10:24 PM

Hi,
Two photos from Instagram. New Canyon ebike ? Photo

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5/29/2021 10:28 PM
Edited Date/Time: 5/29/2021 10:29 PM

New Devinci? Photo

I don’t recognize this bikes.

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5/29/2021 11:33 PM

Photo
a picture of gt's new bike from wyn masters Instagram story earlier today
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5/30/2021 12:21 AM

ozark wrote:

New Devinci? Photo

I don’t recognize this bikes.

that was spotted on the back of a truck in bc a couple months ago

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5/30/2021 12:23 AM

ozark wrote:

New Devinci? Photo

I don’t recognize this bikes.

https://www.pinkbike.com/u/jamessmurthwaite/blog/spotted-prototype-high-pivot-full-suspension-bike-in-north-vancouver.html

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5/30/2021 12:40 AM

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5/30/2021 12:52 AM

island stoves wrote:

New Transition mullet patrol and big travel 170 29” out any day!

yes, many pictures up at trsnsition bikes pinkbike photo album!

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5/30/2021 5:41 AM

New transition's name looks like Spark and there is alloy and carbon options
Are they ditching Patrol?

Photo


Photo

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5/30/2021 6:01 AM

ozark wrote:

Hi,
Two photos from Instagram. New Canyon ebike ? Photo

spectral:on with a zeb on the front

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5/30/2021 7:36 AM

noeserdalt wrote:

New transition's name looks like Spark and there is alloy and carbon options
Are they ditching Patrol?

Photo


Photo

I heard new Patrol will be mullet

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5/30/2021 9:22 AM

Ha ha..... o canyon.

Dont forget your phone, gps, your tablet, heart rate monitor, screen for the bike's computer, a backcountry locator, and extra batteries for your bike's motor, dropper, and derailleur!

Sad.

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5/30/2021 11:47 AM

New Pivot Enduro today at Schladming. They did some shooting. Maybe new Firebird? Photo
Photo
Photo

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5/30/2021 12:57 PM

noeserdalt wrote:

New transition's name looks like Spark and there is alloy and carbon options
Are they ditching Patrol?

Photo


Photo

There’s some pictures on pinkbike on the transition page labeled “Hannah Bergman rides the 2022 patrol” or something like that so they’re definitely not ditching it

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5/30/2021 2:01 PM

noeserdalt wrote:

New transition's name looks like Spark and there is alloy and carbon options
Are they ditching Patrol?

Photo


Photo

bermslapper69 wrote:

There’s some pictures on pinkbike on the transition page labeled “Hannah Bergman rides the 2022 patrol” or something like that ...more

looks more like a full 29 than a mullet bike

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5/30/2021 2:09 PM

here's that pivot image rotated and pulled in. interesting! good find!
Photo

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5/30/2021 2:44 PM

If that is Matt Walker, then they are taking the piss of Commencal... who are still bagging their bikes

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Internet rider in the 09 since 09

5/30/2021 3:11 PM

Is it just me or this bike looks so damn small under him ?!

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5/30/2021 3:17 PM

Aksel_Lfft wrote:

Is it just me or this bike looks so damn small under him ?!

he runs a medium bike i think, based on height should be on a large. i think bernard kerr is possibly the same running a smaller bike

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