MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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jonkranked
Posts
1198
Joined
5/5/2016
Location
Norristown, PA US
1/26/2021 6:54am
Primoz wrote:
If I remember correctly the 951 swingarms cracking was a normal thing. It happened on the yoke by the lower pivot, where they made a niiiice...
If I remember correctly the 951 swingarms cracking was a normal thing. It happened on the yoke by the lower pivot, where they made a niiiice sharp edge, which is an excellent stress riser. I know of a case (a DH racer TBH...) where 3 swingarms cracked in one season.
were the 951s the ones where the tire hit the seat tube on bottom out? or was that another model?
1/26/2021 7:02am
I think there’s already a fork in the zeb lineup called the zeb R or maybe just the Zeb that falls into the same category as...
I think there’s already a fork in the zeb lineup called the zeb R or maybe just the Zeb that falls into the same category as the Yari as far as price and damper tech go. Maybe the domain will be a “freeride” or “bike park” marketed dual crown that’ll launch alongside a new 38mm boxxer. Or maybe it’s gonna be an ebike fork...
Well if they can produce a cheaper zeb the free ride market is looking for one
Zeb Charger R retails for $699.99 (USD) but, like literally every single other bike product worth buying right now, is completely out of stock everywhere. Worth...
Zeb Charger R retails for $699.99 (USD) but, like literally every single other bike product worth buying right now, is completely out of stock everywhere. Worth noting that the marz z1 is also $699.99. Hard to imagine them making something any cheaper that won’t either weigh enough to anchor a yacht or feel like the damper is made out of wood and uses nacho cheese as fluid
Yari is a good fork. I’d still spring for a zeb r cause I’m not that hard on a bike. But there are plenty of dudes who’d trade 2-300 for 1.5 lbs of weight and a damper on the yari level.
1/26/2021 7:15am Edited Date/Time 1/26/2021 7:42am





More images of the new POC helmet. Wonder how it'll compare to the new A3?

I'm kind of surprised by how little innovation there is on the helmet scene. I imagine something like koroyd is pretty expensive to produce in comparison to the standard polycarbonate/eps construction but taking bike prices as a metric I didn't think that would stop them. I thought we'd be seeing more "next generation" helmet constructions with price tags to match.

1
1/26/2021 9:02am
jofish wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2021/01/26/10448/s1200_18659025fdb5d2ef00c85.38731635.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2021/01/26/10447/s1200_18659025fdb5d5423aad6.51256082.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2021/01/26/10450/s1200_18659025fdb5d3d6bc636.28670464.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2021/01/26/10449/s1200_18659085fdb33cc4b8834.28454557.jpg[/img] More images of the new POC helmet. Wonder how it'll compare to the new A3? I'm kind of surprised by how little...





More images of the new POC helmet. Wonder how it'll compare to the new A3?

I'm kind of surprised by how little innovation there is on the helmet scene. I imagine something like koroyd is pretty expensive to produce in comparison to the standard polycarbonate/eps construction but taking bike prices as a metric I didn't think that would stop them. I thought we'd be seeing more "next generation" helmet constructions with price tags to match.

I wonder if the recent Bontrager WaveCel lawsuit has helmet manufacturers skeptical about developing new tech that claims "xyz" over current standards. It must be really hard to develop a helmet since no MTB crash is the same. I also play hockey if you want to talk about even less helmet innovation...
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1/26/2021 9:14am
Poleczechy wrote:
I wonder if the recent Bontrager WaveCel lawsuit has helmet manufacturers skeptical about developing new tech that claims "xyz" over current standards. It must be really...
I wonder if the recent Bontrager WaveCel lawsuit has helmet manufacturers skeptical about developing new tech that claims "xyz" over current standards. It must be really hard to develop a helmet since no MTB crash is the same. I also play hockey if you want to talk about even less helmet innovation...
Naah. For safety equipment, saying things will prevent injuries so and so much better is a claim that is not necessarily quantifiable. The WaveCel lawsuits is as far as I can see based on documentation from Bontrager from questionable sources (or sources with questionable conflict of interest). I am not sure wavecel is much better, and other helmet safety technology suppliers have stated that Bontrager's claims are not waterproof.
1
1/26/2021 5:35pm
I know these have popped up on the gear rumor forums before. Anyone hearing any new rumblings about the e13 Grapplers?....

Looks to be an intermediate knob design similar to Assegai/Mary/Hellkat.

3
1/26/2021 7:57pm
I inquired eThirteen about those tires a few weeks ago and they said that the production dates are unknown because of all the delays going on. I have asked them again this morning after seeing Remy's bike check so we'll see if they have new estimated delivery dates.

In my opinion, the tread design seems to address what I thought could be improved on those "intermediate knobs" tires like the Magic Mary and Assegais (even if I like those). With their new compounds, it seems like the tire I've been looking for all my life haha! Can't wait to try some, they seem to work well for Remy!
1/27/2021 12:50am
iRider wrote:
Do you have numbers to back that up? Because I know of quite a few Socom owners and all frames are/were still in good shape during...
Do you have numbers to back that up? Because I know of quite a few Socom owners and all frames are/were still in good shape during ownership (minus dents because of thin tubes).
The frames that I have seen cracked were ridden by folks that had no business owning one. 200 pounds huck to flat rider were not the intented buyers. That is why Intense came out with the 951 as replacement, which was a privateer's DH bike or park bike if you will and not a superlight, precise DH bike for a rider with the necessary finess.
Actually I don't have an exhaustive view of the cracked frames, you're right. As a matter of fact: a friend of mine was indeed to heavy (90kg / 200 pounds) for that frame at that time, and it snapped. But here's the thing: he got the Socom replaced by a 951... which also snapped (the CNCd part on the wheelbase). After discussing over the years with former Intense buyers, it seemed that a lot of them got a problem on the Socom and 951 frames (dunno about the Evo).

I did love Intense (I used to own a Uzzi slx) and I'm still following Jeff's work with due respect, but Intense frames are now way out of my own radar. I'm 6'3 tall, 85kg resulting of just being a tall fella: I'm kinda fed up with frame manufacturers telling me I'm too heavy to ride their frames safely.
5
1/27/2021 1:38am
Nico_Hrndz wrote:
Actually I don't have an exhaustive view of the cracked frames, you're right. As a matter of fact: a friend of mine was indeed to heavy...
Actually I don't have an exhaustive view of the cracked frames, you're right. As a matter of fact: a friend of mine was indeed to heavy (90kg / 200 pounds) for that frame at that time, and it snapped. But here's the thing: he got the Socom replaced by a 951... which also snapped (the CNCd part on the wheelbase). After discussing over the years with former Intense buyers, it seemed that a lot of them got a problem on the Socom and 951 frames (dunno about the Evo).

I did love Intense (I used to own a Uzzi slx) and I'm still following Jeff's work with due respect, but Intense frames are now way out of my own radar. I'm 6'3 tall, 85kg resulting of just being a tall fella: I'm kinda fed up with frame manufacturers telling me I'm too heavy to ride their frames safely.
I cracked my Socom, was a bike park bimbler at that point with no real speed, not hucking off things either. Was a silly light bike with Totems and an air shock, rode like shit in that setup, way better with a coil and boxxers.


As to your last point, buy a Geometron, properly made and bullet proof, they do one in your size as well.
4
iRider
Posts
108
Joined
12/26/2020
Location
DK
1/27/2021 6:34am
Nico_Hrndz wrote:
Actually I don't have an exhaustive view of the cracked frames, you're right. As a matter of fact: a friend of mine was indeed to heavy...
Actually I don't have an exhaustive view of the cracked frames, you're right. As a matter of fact: a friend of mine was indeed to heavy (90kg / 200 pounds) for that frame at that time, and it snapped. But here's the thing: he got the Socom replaced by a 951... which also snapped (the CNCd part on the wheelbase). After discussing over the years with former Intense buyers, it seemed that a lot of them got a problem on the Socom and 951 frames (dunno about the Evo).

I did love Intense (I used to own a Uzzi slx) and I'm still following Jeff's work with due respect, but Intense frames are now way out of my own radar. I'm 6'3 tall, 85kg resulting of just being a tall fella: I'm kinda fed up with frame manufacturers telling me I'm too heavy to ride their frames safely.
Socoms were pretty reliable for how light they are.

First generation of 951 (G3 dropouts) cracked a lot on the chainstay yoke. Besides there being a stress riser in the CNC'd part, many undersprung the frame to remedy its overly progressive nature. The now possible, full bottom out put too much force into the chainstay and resulted in the CNC part cracking. This is why the later versions of the 26" frame had more material in that area and got rid of the adjustable dropout.

The rear tire on seat tube issue that jonkranked refers to was with the M6 before they made special dropouts for the frame.

Regarding frame manufacturers putting a weight/usage limit on frames: as a lighter rider I think it was great that there was a choice of light or strong. There were offers for those that need a strong frame and also for those that did not need all that margin of error. Looking at recent carbon frames weighing in more than aluminum frames from 10 years ago and people having to slap 100+ g worth of protective wrap on it to keep it from getting damaged I think the industry is going the wrong way.
I too loved the "old" Intense with their unique frames. Now they are just another made in China carbon bike design company.
3
Noeserd
Posts
183
Joined
10/21/2020
Location
TR
1/27/2021 6:55am
Giga is finally out but what is going on with prices

for usa comp model is 3700$

for uk 3700£

for europe 4700€


neither exchange rate nor price difference makes sense
1/27/2021 7:01am
Noeserd wrote:
Giga is finally out but what is going on with prices for usa comp model is 3700$ for uk 3700£ for europe 4700€ neither exchange rate...
Giga is finally out but what is going on with prices

for usa comp model is 3700$

for uk 3700£

for europe 4700€


neither exchange rate nor price difference makes sense
When did the cycling industry ever make sense?Laughing
1
metadave
Posts
1251
Joined
2/15/2016
Location
Revelstoke, BC CA
Fantasy
1/27/2021 7:05am
Noeserd wrote:
Giga is finally out but what is going on with prices for usa comp model is 3700$ for uk 3700£ for europe 4700€ neither exchange rate...
Giga is finally out but what is going on with prices

for usa comp model is 3700$

for uk 3700£

for europe 4700€


neither exchange rate nor price difference makes sense
Brexit
7
1/27/2021 7:17am
metadave wrote:
Brexit
My guess is that's just an excuse. A political excuse. Read : "Wa-wa, EU didn't let us do a Brexit with the same economical advantages than before, make them pay for this."

Honestly, don't see where it's more difficult (aka. more expensive) to ship to EU than to US.
1
1/27/2021 7:21am
metadave wrote:
Brexit
My guess is that's just an excuse. A political excuse. Read : "Wa-wa, EU didn't let us do a Brexit with the same economical advantages than...
My guess is that's just an excuse. A political excuse. Read : "Wa-wa, EU didn't let us do a Brexit with the same economical advantages than before, make them pay for this."

Honestly, don't see where it's more difficult (aka. more expensive) to ship to EU than to US.
There are customs tariffs between EU and GB that may not be the same as between GB and USA
1/27/2021 7:23am
metadave wrote:
Brexit
My guess is that's just an excuse. A political excuse. Read : "Wa-wa, EU didn't let us do a Brexit with the same economical advantages than...
My guess is that's just an excuse. A political excuse. Read : "Wa-wa, EU didn't let us do a Brexit with the same economical advantages than before, make them pay for this."

Honestly, don't see where it's more difficult (aka. more expensive) to ship to EU than to US.
That’s a bit of a leap isn’t it. Hard to believe a mtb company would hurt their bottom line and price their bikes higher in the biggest market on purpose. I’d be willing to bet the price is a bit higher on purpose, but probably to not be like so many brands that have promised bikes and are now telling customers they gotta wait a month and it’s gonna cost more. Also the euro is doing better than the dollar or pound at the time.
Primoz
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4598
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8/1/2009
Location
SI
1/27/2021 7:49am
The local Nukeproof dealer published notes that the bikes (that have been downpaid already) will probably be a bit more expensive, but they will try to honor the agreed upon price. And that the reason for this is stocking the bikes in UK with customs charges getting them into europe raising the prices. Supposedly they are working on a EU warehouse for 2022 to avoid this shitstorm of a situation.

Brits really did royally screw themselves over with this Brexit stuff...
8
1/27/2021 8:11am
Primoz wrote:
The local Nukeproof dealer published notes that the bikes (that have been downpaid already) will probably be a bit more expensive, but they will try to...
The local Nukeproof dealer published notes that the bikes (that have been downpaid already) will probably be a bit more expensive, but they will try to honor the agreed upon price. And that the reason for this is stocking the bikes in UK with customs charges getting them into europe raising the prices. Supposedly they are working on a EU warehouse for 2022 to avoid this shitstorm of a situation.

Brits really did royally screw themselves over with this Brexit stuff...
My words were just in-between an opinion and a guess. I get that CoVID (and what's results, the last Commençal newsletter explained it better) forced companies to rise prices.

I get that UK makers now have custom charges, but I genuinely don't get why it'd be more expensive than shipping to US. I think the 3700$ price-tag is without VAT (let me know if I'm wrong), so why not 3700£ and 3700$. But 4700€. 27% more.

Where the current GBP/EUR ratio is 1,13, I guess bulletbass have a clue when he speak about delays.

So... I'm curious to know the real explanation, but please excuse me to went past the "tech rumors and innovation" initial subject.
Primoz
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4598
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Location
SI
1/27/2021 8:37am
US prices are usually without tax, yeah, because there each state defines their own sales tax. And if you ship from Asia it's not really that different in price than shipping to Europe. That and customs tariffs and we are where we are. Plus 3700 GBP in Euros is almost 4200 €, which makes it a 12 % difference to 4700 €. And the VAT is a bit lower in the UK, the EU price might be the same for all countries (so pre-tax price could be different here and there, if they do it that way - Slovenia has 21 % of VAT for example), etc.

The prices are insane, don't get me wrong.
2
EugenM
Posts
79
Joined
8/18/2016
Location
TF
1/27/2021 10:09am Edited Date/Time 1/27/2021 10:38am
Primoz wrote:
US prices are usually without tax, yeah, because there each state defines their own sales tax. And if you ship from Asia it's not really that...
US prices are usually without tax, yeah, because there each state defines their own sales tax. And if you ship from Asia it's not really that different in price than shipping to Europe. That and customs tariffs and we are where we are. Plus 3700 GBP in Euros is almost 4200 €, which makes it a 12 % difference to 4700 €. And the VAT is a bit lower in the UK, the EU price might be the same for all countries (so pre-tax price could be different here and there, if they do it that way - Slovenia has 21 % of VAT for example), etc.

The prices are insane, don't get me wrong.
what I/we actually don't know is why Nuke didn't pay tax on bikes before as, from my experience, less than 55% in EU production tax still applied before Brexit to every factory/manufacturer in EU - and I know, because I work with a couple small factories near me and in order to not pay that tax, they resort to all sorts of combos -

on the other hand, in July-August-Sept, a shipping container of 40ft HQ was around 2000-2500 USD, while in December and also now in Jan is anywhere around or between 8000 USD and 12000 USD, depending on the origin sea-port and destination(and how fast you wanted shipped) ;
also, the currency badly dropped, making around 8% cost increase;
also(2), the raw materials have incresed in cost anywhere between 4% to 8%.

note that in one container, they can probably fit around 250 bikes... as these are big bikes and not the supermarket type which fit in around 300-330.

All these increases got to add somewhere and, while every LBS, retailer, distributer, brand, etc, for the sake of their clients, would like to cover for some of these changes, the truth is, now they are too big to be covered and, by default, they get transfered to the final beneficiary of the product, which is us. At the moment, it can't be helped.
2
1
jazza_wil
Posts
91
Joined
5/10/2011
Location
whistler, BC CA
1/27/2021 11:59am
New rear end on supreme, back to bolt on drop outs? Supreme V4.5 in the works?

1/27/2021 12:57pm
jazza_wil wrote:
New rear end on supreme, back to bolt on drop outs? Supreme V4.5 in the works? [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2021/01/27/10457/s1200_s1600_cover_379246.jpg[/img]
New rear end on supreme, back to bolt on drop outs? Supreme V4.5 in the works?

Looks like by switchinh dropout you can run both a 29 and 25.7 rear wheel.
1
Trocko
Posts
159
Joined
11/23/2010
Location
Rocky, CO US
1/28/2021 7:28am
Alchemy Arktos being released in a few days now with space for bottle and travel/ mullet options in 1 frame


2
1/28/2021 7:53am
Trocko wrote:
Alchemy Arktos being released in a few days now with space for bottle and travel/ mullet options in 1 frame [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2021/01/28/10459/s1200_A45789AD_28D8_4CF3_803F_335265591A28.jpg[/img]
Alchemy Arktos being released in a few days now with space for bottle and travel/ mullet options in 1 frame


Cool to see a longer travel 29 option
1
dolface
Posts
1680
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10/26/2015
Location
CA US
1/28/2021 11:04am
Propain is teasing a new bike on IG "It climbs, it jibs, it's huge", announcement to come on 2/2.

Any guesses?
1/28/2021 11:07am
Hugene is quite dated, and "it's huge" soooo...
2
Primoz
Posts
4598
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
SI
1/28/2021 11:51am Edited Date/Time 1/28/2021 11:52am
My thoughts exactly, a new hugene. It was the first bike to come with the shock-inside-front-triangle Propain layout and was carbon only all the time, while Propain seems to be embracing Al quite nicely with other models.

2
DubC
Posts
172
Joined
10/26/2011
Location
CA US
1/28/2021 3:26pm Edited Date/Time 1/28/2021 3:27pm
Anyone catch this on that other site talking about the SRAM Universal Der Hanger:

"I also have feeling that SRAM has something up their sleeve that will make this a good feature to have in the future... I'm not sure what it is, but I know if I was bike shopping a UDH would be a point in the plus column."

Clearly the editor knows something. SRAM likely coming out with derailleurs which mount directly to the hanger location it may seem? Or a wide range internally geared hub which uses the mount standard somehow?
1
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