Even with the saddle slammed you still have an edge while the seat rotated backwards gives a ramp to slide over. Sure, it's sliding on your nuts, but better to slide than to impact.
For the XC crowd, there was a thing in the making in the 26" wheel days, but the pivot was lower down to both rotate the seat and move it forwards (to improve the rider geometry and improve the power output). Nothing came of it as there wasn't enough funding to properly develop it (further than the multi kilo prototype) and dropper posts came onto the scene, taking the space of the rotating post. EDIT: found the (Slovenian) article, it was published 10 years ago. My how time flies...
As for the ozzie bike, they had me, hard. Then came Effigear... Would have been wonderful with a Pinion
I'm sure the shock size is a mistake but the geo looks good. Haven't seen a catalog DH frame since the old Da Bombs. This one's carbon too and likely the first superboost catalog frame I've seen (if the table above is to be believed).
Look closely at the pivot placements as it seems to be a VPP to me.
I'm sure the shock size is a mistake but the geo looks good. Haven't seen a catalog DH frame since the old Da Bombs. This one's carbon too and likely the first superboost catalog frame I've seen (if the table above is to be believed).
Look closely at the pivot placements as it seems to be a VPP to me.
Not a SuperBoost since it has BB83. It's just the standard the DH standard.
You must not dirt jump or DH. When one sits on a saddle that's lower than proper ride height, the angle at which the pelvis meets...
You must not dirt jump or DH. When one sits on a saddle that's lower than proper ride height, the angle at which the pelvis meets the saddle is rotated back significantly. So sitting on a lowered seat that is flat or nose down really is uncomfortable. I forget what company made it, but one post rotates the saddle back automatically when lowered.
FWIW, imperial standard shocks do come in the size that's written with that frame. Maybe they just didn't use metric shocks?
Suspension system is close to a VPP, as for the geometry, is that good? My 150 mm trailbike has the same wheelbase as this one in XL... Same chainstay too.
As for catalogue DH frames, Astro has always had some, I remember even Barel riding them in the Mondraker days pre-Zero suspension.
Sorry, I don't think I really made my point clear. I meant to ask, why does having a different angle on the dh make a difference...
Sorry, I don't think I really made my point clear. I meant to ask, why does having a different angle on the dh make a difference, surely it would just make it harder to rest?
Go rent a DH bike. The simple, straightforward answer is that its just a lot more comfortable to have your saddle pointing pretty far up when its down low on a DH bike. A saddle level with the ground makes you feel like you're sliding forward and is uncomfortable. Do a google image search for downhill bikes and look at all the saddle angles.
Sorry, I don't think I really made my point clear. I meant to ask, why does having a different angle on the dh make a difference...
Sorry, I don't think I really made my point clear. I meant to ask, why does having a different angle on the dh make a difference, surely it would just make it harder to rest?
Go rent a DH bike. The simple, straightforward answer is that its just a lot more comfortable to have your saddle pointing pretty far up when...
Go rent a DH bike. The simple, straightforward answer is that its just a lot more comfortable to have your saddle pointing pretty far up when its down low on a DH bike. A saddle level with the ground makes you feel like you're sliding forward and is uncomfortable. Do a google image search for downhill bikes and look at all the saddle angles.
I'm very confused, I feel if your sitting down riding dh your doing it wrong...I've never seen a world cup DH rider sit during they're race run? I haven't even used my saddle on my DH bike...... I keep mine super low! It makes it easier for tricks like no-foot cans.... it's also nice on a very steep or rough trail as it keeps the saddle outta my butt. Im also pretty darn short! (5'5)
I keep my saddle level because it allows me to get it lower without hitting the tire. So im not sure why people angle the seat on a DH bike, as my saddle is pretty much to keep me from getting impaled and also having something to sit on in the lift line.
side note most world cuppers DH bikes have only a slight angle to the seat. but people like to exaggerate things to look cool not realizing it actually makes them look dumb. look at JDM cars they camber the wheels cuz thats what the racers do, but on a racers car the camber is very slight.... almost unnoticeable.
I'm sure the shock size is a mistake but the geo looks good. Haven't seen a catalog DH frame since the old Da Bombs. This one's carbon too and likely the first superboost catalog frame I've seen (if the table above is to be believed).
Look closely at the pivot placements as it seems to be a VPP to me.
DH racers do sit down sometimes. On pedally sections.
As for the angle, I'm starting to think the optimal angle is for the seat to point towards the top headset bearing or the stem. I'm kiiiiiind of thinking it might have something to do with upper body orientation and the resulting hip rotation.
New one out of Australia. Trinity Mtb
https://www.instagram.com/trinity_mtb/
"aluminum, mixed wheel, high pivot , gearbox driven prototype. Rear travel 155-170mm, front travel 160-190mm. Adjustable head angle...
"aluminum, mixed wheel, high pivot , gearbox driven prototype. Rear travel 155-170mm, front travel 160-190mm. Adjustable head angle, chainstay length, and anti-squat figure"
I hope it's successful. Seen some of the development and Nigel the fabricator is a top bloke and an absolute loose unit on a bike. Pedals a demo to the top too...
I'm sure the shock size is a mistake but the geo looks good. Haven't seen a catalog DH frame since the old Da Bombs. This one's carbon too and likely the first superboost catalog frame I've seen (if the table above is to be believed).
Look closely at the pivot placements as it seems to be a VPP to me.
Haven't the KHS bikes -inckuding their DH bike - been Astro Bikes for several years now?
Yep. Kraftstoff used to be the same, there was a Slovenian brand doing it quite a few years ago too, and, like I mentioned, Mondraker started off with catalogue frames while developing the Zero frames.
I got another interesting one for you guys. This is Shimano's active anti-dive system. There are sensors in the brake levers, calipers, and a pitch sensor that knows how much braking is applied and the pitch of the bike. A controller then sends a signal to the suspension to automatically prevent the bike from diving forward under braking.
I got another interesting one for you guys. This is Shimano's active anti-dive system. There are sensors in the brake levers, calipers, and a pitch sensor...
I got another interesting one for you guys. This is Shimano's active anti-dive system. There are sensors in the brake levers, calipers, and a pitch sensor that knows how much braking is applied and the pitch of the bike. A controller then sends a signal to the suspension to automatically prevent the bike from diving forward under braking.
FWIW, imperial standard shocks do come in the size that's written with that frame. Maybe they just didn't use metric shocks? :P
Suspension system is close...
FWIW, imperial standard shocks do come in the size that's written with that frame. Maybe they just didn't use metric shocks?
Suspension system is close to a VPP, as for the geometry, is that good? My 150 mm trailbike has the same wheelbase as this one in XL... Same chainstay too.
As for catalogue DH frames, Astro has always had some, I remember even Barel riding them in the Mondraker days pre-Zero suspension.
Geo is on par with many dh bikes nowadays. Maybe the RC could use 5 mm more, especially on the larger sizes. Slacken the head angle by a touch and that's it. Only "issue" is the Bb drop, but that's up for debate I guess?
I got another interesting one for you guys. This is Shimano's active anti-dive system. There are sensors in the brake levers, calipers, and a pitch sensor...
I got another interesting one for you guys. This is Shimano's active anti-dive system. There are sensors in the brake levers, calipers, and a pitch sensor that knows how much braking is applied and the pitch of the bike. A controller then sends a signal to the suspension to automatically prevent the bike from diving forward under braking.
New one out of Australia. Trinity Mtb
https://www.instagram.com/trinity_mtb/
"aluminum, mixed wheel, high pivot , gearbox driven prototype. Rear travel 155-170mm, front travel 160-190mm. Adjustable head angle...
"aluminum, mixed wheel, high pivot , gearbox driven prototype. Rear travel 155-170mm, front travel 160-190mm. Adjustable head angle, chainstay length, and anti-squat figure"
While I really like to see boundaries being pushed, most of these gearboxed dream machines are simply out of reach for us regulars, I'd love to ride a Druid or p-train but I just cannot afford it... So can somebody please make affordable high pivot for the masses?
Commencal should rebirth his Supreme SX from 2018 with just a bit less travel. Such a shame that this bike never had sucess, the price was really good for a fancy high pivot bike.
New one out of Australia. Trinity Mtb
https://www.instagram.com/trinity_mtb/
"aluminum, mixed wheel, high pivot , gearbox driven prototype. Rear travel 155-170mm, front travel 160-190mm. Adjustable head angle...
While I really like to see boundaries being pushed, most of these gearboxed dream machines are simply out of reach for us regulars, I'd love to...
While I really like to see boundaries being pushed, most of these gearboxed dream machines are simply out of reach for us regulars, I'd love to ride a Druid or p-train but I just cannot afford it... So can somebody please make affordable high pivot for the masses?
Commencal did with the supreme sx but it only lasted a couple of years. It was pretty cheep compared to the boutique carbon high pivot bikes. I think if that bike came out now it would have done better with all the buzz around hp trail bikes and alloy making a bit if a resurgence
Which brings up the question, as has been asked before. How much is too much???.
Electronic shifting is pretty cool and works reasonably well.
Electronic Reverb...
Which brings up the question, as has been asked before. How much is too much???.
Electronic shifting is pretty cool and works reasonably well.
Electronic Reverb is really good.
Live Valve apparently sucks, but I'm sure it'll evolve....
I think that'll be answered in the next few years. The active-bike push will be the biggest leap ever in bike tech and should really be discussed throughout the industry, community, and especially racing.
Which brings up the question, as has been asked before. How much is too much???.
Electronic shifting is pretty cool and works reasonably well.
Electronic Reverb...
Which brings up the question, as has been asked before. How much is too much???.
Electronic shifting is pretty cool and works reasonably well.
Electronic Reverb is really good.
Live Valve apparently sucks, but I'm sure it'll evolve....
I think that'll be answered in the next few years. The active-bike push will be the biggest leap ever in bike tech and should really be...
I think that'll be answered in the next few years. The active-bike push will be the biggest leap ever in bike tech and should really be discussed throughout the industry, community, and especially racing.
It would be nice if they would all get together and discuss things so as to put some standards in place going forward before everyone goes ahead and develops their own proprietary stuff that doesn’t integrate with the others or popular apps etc.
The wireless Reverb is good because it has no hoses/cables going through the frame, so it's really clean and easy to mount. Electronic shifting is... Is it really needed? Especially given the price? Electronic suspension is also something I doubt is needed... The calibration should be a PITA due to the difference in systems that we have (rider weights and heights), you require a few sensors and a control box, batteries, etc. For what. What's wrong with a properly sorted rear suspension geometry and a shock (and fork) with adjustable low speed compression?
For the fear of sounding old and grumpy (though I am a freak for technology and a massive geek), let's keep bikes simple. Electricity free too
My 2 cents.
And anti-dive, what will happen when you ride over a root? Will it stay closed, bucking you or giving you a massive impact into the wheel? Or will it blow off and compress? It won't bounce back, so what good did it do you? Plus if not VERY well tuned, electronics systems can make the handling unpredictable. A badly set up, but a predictable bike will be a better ride than an unpredictable ride.
Commencal should rebirth his Supreme SX from 2018 with just a bit less travel. Such a shame that this bike never had sucess, the price was...
Commencal should rebirth his Supreme SX from 2018 with just a bit less travel. Such a shame that this bike never had sucess, the price was really good for a fancy high pivot bike.
I'm honestly surprised that they haven't come out with something like a Supreme TR yet (like an alloy druid) especially given that they just gave it an update this year. I suppose the lack of sales with the Supreme SX may be a bit of a deterrence though.
The wireless Reverb is good because it has no hoses/cables going through the frame, so it's really clean and easy to mount. Electronic shifting is... Is...
The wireless Reverb is good because it has no hoses/cables going through the frame, so it's really clean and easy to mount. Electronic shifting is... Is it really needed? Especially given the price? Electronic suspension is also something I doubt is needed... The calibration should be a PITA due to the difference in systems that we have (rider weights and heights), you require a few sensors and a control box, batteries, etc. For what. What's wrong with a properly sorted rear suspension geometry and a shock (and fork) with adjustable low speed compression?
For the fear of sounding old and grumpy (though I am a freak for technology and a massive geek), let's keep bikes simple. Electricity free too
My 2 cents.
And anti-dive, what will happen when you ride over a root? Will it stay closed, bucking you or giving you a massive impact into the wheel? Or will it blow off and compress? It won't bounce back, so what good did it do you? Plus if not VERY well tuned, electronics systems can make the handling unpredictable. A badly set up, but a predictable bike will be a better ride than an unpredictable ride.
What if you could have wireless LiveValve that you could completely bypass if you wanted or completely lock out from the press of a button, no cables. And it would give you suggestions on your phone app like the shockwhiz on how to improve your suspension setup? Or adjust the progression of your suspension by moving a slider on an app?
What if you could have wireless LiveValve that you could completely bypass if you wanted or completely lock out from the press of a button, no...
What if you could have wireless LiveValve that you could completely bypass if you wanted or completely lock out from the press of a button, no cables. And it would give you suggestions on your phone app like the shockwhiz on how to improve your suspension setup? Or adjust the progression of your suspension by moving a slider on an app?
Fox's patent says just that:
Manual Override = Such “lock out” may be selectively provided via an external manual adjuster...
Wireless = ...it is expected that in the future wireless protocols and battery life may be such that wireless high speed communication (although possible today) between the sensors 200 and the controller 300 will become more practical and is therefore contemplated hereby.
Setup Suggestions = The software program for use with the system 1000 may assist shops and individuals with basic setup parameters of their vehicle 100 components, such as the vehicle suspension... the user 600 may set the controller 300 via the computer system 400 and/or communication system 500 into an advanced setup mode where it collects data from the sensors 300 and processes the data.
What if you could have wireless LiveValve that you could completely bypass if you wanted or completely lock out from the press of a button, no...
What if you could have wireless LiveValve that you could completely bypass if you wanted or completely lock out from the press of a button, no cables. And it would give you suggestions on your phone app like the shockwhiz on how to improve your suspension setup? Or adjust the progression of your suspension by moving a slider on an app?
Nope. There are still batteries. I have a Shockwiz, bought it, put it on the bike, set the clickers (I have an RC2 Lyrik and a Super Deluxe Ultimate) and that was it. I do not change anything. I do not lock my rear shock. I just ride.
For someone knowing exactly what and how all the clickers do, for someone so vocal about tech stuff on the forum, for someone thinking it would be cool to have a power meter, to have more advanced suspension analysis gear and someone thinking how to put strain gauges onto the frame to check out stresses and strains (it would be helpful only on a prototype bike under development though...) it really is an oxymoron to ride like that. But hey, when I'm on the bike it's like I'm a different person, I'm just there to ride
And for all the geeking I do, dunno, I kind of like just grabbing the bike and going. There are five levers on the bars making me go faster or slower and making more (or less) comfortable, there's some squishiness, otherwise it's just me. If I run out of power, it's on me, it's on me to ride the damned thing and sure, it requires some wrenching and filling up with air (before every ride...), but it doesn't require charging with electricity.
Yeah, I'm weird
BTW, It's flabbergasting that more or less none of the shops offer a Shockwiz service for the basic setup of a new bike. It's SUCH a low hanging fruit with such high improvements possible for most riders.
The thing I look forward to most is some type of big hit button. I set up my bike for big compressions and Rock gardens rather than the 85 percent of the trail between them. I’d love if I could hold a button for firmer settings when I needed them so the bike could be set up more all around.
What if you could have wireless LiveValve that you could completely bypass if you wanted or completely lock out from the press of a button, no...
What if you could have wireless LiveValve that you could completely bypass if you wanted or completely lock out from the press of a button, no cables. And it would give you suggestions on your phone app like the shockwhiz on how to improve your suspension setup? Or adjust the progression of your suspension by moving a slider on an app?
Nope. There are still batteries. I have a Shockwiz, bought it, put it on the bike, set the clickers (I have an RC2 Lyrik and a...
Nope. There are still batteries. I have a Shockwiz, bought it, put it on the bike, set the clickers (I have an RC2 Lyrik and a Super Deluxe Ultimate) and that was it. I do not change anything. I do not lock my rear shock. I just ride.
For someone knowing exactly what and how all the clickers do, for someone so vocal about tech stuff on the forum, for someone thinking it would be cool to have a power meter, to have more advanced suspension analysis gear and someone thinking how to put strain gauges onto the frame to check out stresses and strains (it would be helpful only on a prototype bike under development though...) it really is an oxymoron to ride like that. But hey, when I'm on the bike it's like I'm a different person, I'm just there to ride
And for all the geeking I do, dunno, I kind of like just grabbing the bike and going. There are five levers on the bars making me go faster or slower and making more (or less) comfortable, there's some squishiness, otherwise it's just me. If I run out of power, it's on me, it's on me to ride the damned thing and sure, it requires some wrenching and filling up with air (before every ride...), but it doesn't require charging with electricity.
Yeah, I'm weird
BTW, It's flabbergasting that more or less none of the shops offer a Shockwiz service for the basic setup of a new bike. It's SUCH a low hanging fruit with such high improvements possible for most riders.
That's because 80% of the customers will try to get it of paying to rent a shock wiz. Or, they will try to pay with a six pack..
What if you could have wireless LiveValve that you could completely bypass if you wanted or completely lock out from the press of a button, no...
What if you could have wireless LiveValve that you could completely bypass if you wanted or completely lock out from the press of a button, no cables. And it would give you suggestions on your phone app like the shockwhiz on how to improve your suspension setup? Or adjust the progression of your suspension by moving a slider on an app?
Nope. There are still batteries. I have a Shockwiz, bought it, put it on the bike, set the clickers (I have an RC2 Lyrik and a...
Nope. There are still batteries. I have a Shockwiz, bought it, put it on the bike, set the clickers (I have an RC2 Lyrik and a Super Deluxe Ultimate) and that was it. I do not change anything. I do not lock my rear shock. I just ride.
For someone knowing exactly what and how all the clickers do, for someone so vocal about tech stuff on the forum, for someone thinking it would be cool to have a power meter, to have more advanced suspension analysis gear and someone thinking how to put strain gauges onto the frame to check out stresses and strains (it would be helpful only on a prototype bike under development though...) it really is an oxymoron to ride like that. But hey, when I'm on the bike it's like I'm a different person, I'm just there to ride
And for all the geeking I do, dunno, I kind of like just grabbing the bike and going. There are five levers on the bars making me go faster or slower and making more (or less) comfortable, there's some squishiness, otherwise it's just me. If I run out of power, it's on me, it's on me to ride the damned thing and sure, it requires some wrenching and filling up with air (before every ride...), but it doesn't require charging with electricity.
Yeah, I'm weird
BTW, It's flabbergasting that more or less none of the shops offer a Shockwiz service for the basic setup of a new bike. It's SUCH a low hanging fruit with such high improvements possible for most riders.
For the XC crowd, there was a thing in the making in the 26" wheel days, but the pivot was lower down to both rotate the seat and move it forwards (to improve the rider geometry and improve the power output). Nothing came of it as there wasn't enough funding to properly develop it (further than the multi kilo prototype) and dropper posts came onto the scene, taking the space of the rotating post. EDIT: found the (Slovenian) article, it was published 10 years ago. My how time flies...
As for the ozzie bike, they had me, hard. Then came Effigear... Would have been wonderful with a Pinion
Type: FULL SUSPENDEN DH (sic)
Material: CARBON
Headset: 1-1/8” 1-1/2”
TIRE: 29”*2.5”/27.5+*2.80”
Weave: UD
BB: BSA 83
Shok TRAVEL: 8.75" *2.75"
Rear Hub: 157*12mm THRU AXLE
REAR TRAVEL: 200mm
FORK TRAVEL: 200mm
I'm sure the shock size is a mistake but the geo looks good. Haven't seen a catalog DH frame since the old Da Bombs. This one's carbon too and likely the first superboost catalog frame I've seen (if the table above is to be believed).
Look closely at the pivot placements as it seems to be a VPP to me.
Suspension system is close to a VPP, as for the geometry, is that good? My 150 mm trailbike has the same wheelbase as this one in XL... Same chainstay too.
As for catalogue DH frames, Astro has always had some, I remember even Barel riding them in the Mondraker days pre-Zero suspension.
I keep my saddle level because it allows me to get it lower without hitting the tire. So im not sure why people angle the seat on a DH bike, as my saddle is pretty much to keep me from getting impaled and also having something to sit on in the lift line.
side note most world cuppers DH bikes have only a slight angle to the seat. but people like to exaggerate things to look cool not realizing it actually makes them look dumb. look at JDM cars they camber the wheels cuz thats what the racers do, but on a racers car the camber is very slight.... almost unnoticeable.
I Digress.....
As for the angle, I'm starting to think the optimal angle is for the seat to point towards the top headset bearing or the stem. I'm kiiiiiind of thinking it might have something to do with upper body orientation and the resulting hip rotation.
https://wheelbased.com/2021/01/15/suspension-control-device-for-a-human-powered-vehicle-by-shimano/
Get ready for active bikes.
Electronic shifting is pretty cool and works reasonably well.
Electronic Reverb is really good.
Live Valve apparently sucks, but I'm sure it'll evolve....
For the fear of sounding old and grumpy (though I am a freak for technology and a massive geek), let's keep bikes simple. Electricity free too
My 2 cents.
And anti-dive, what will happen when you ride over a root? Will it stay closed, bucking you or giving you a massive impact into the wheel? Or will it blow off and compress? It won't bounce back, so what good did it do you? Plus if not VERY well tuned, electronics systems can make the handling unpredictable. A badly set up, but a predictable bike will be a better ride than an unpredictable ride.
Manual Override = Such “lock out” may be selectively provided via an external manual adjuster...
Wireless = ...it is expected that in the future wireless protocols and battery life may be such that wireless high speed communication (although possible today) between the sensors 200 and the controller 300 will become more practical and is therefore contemplated hereby.
Setup Suggestions = The software program for use with the system 1000 may assist shops and individuals with basic setup parameters of their vehicle 100 components, such as the vehicle suspension... the user 600 may set the controller 300 via the computer system 400 and/or communication system 500 into an advanced setup mode where it collects data from the sensors 300 and processes the data.
Fox is out in 2031 while we're stuck in 2021.
For someone knowing exactly what and how all the clickers do, for someone so vocal about tech stuff on the forum, for someone thinking it would be cool to have a power meter, to have more advanced suspension analysis gear and someone thinking how to put strain gauges onto the frame to check out stresses and strains (it would be helpful only on a prototype bike under development though...) it really is an oxymoron to ride like that. But hey, when I'm on the bike it's like I'm a different person, I'm just there to ride
And for all the geeking I do, dunno, I kind of like just grabbing the bike and going. There are five levers on the bars making me go faster or slower and making more (or less) comfortable, there's some squishiness, otherwise it's just me. If I run out of power, it's on me, it's on me to ride the damned thing and sure, it requires some wrenching and filling up with air (before every ride...), but it doesn't require charging with electricity.
Yeah, I'm weird
BTW, It's flabbergasting that more or less none of the shops offer a Shockwiz service for the basic setup of a new bike. It's SUCH a low hanging fruit with such high improvements possible for most riders.