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20 minutes? Bluetooth v4 is 3 Mbit/s in standard and 1 Mbit/a in low energy form. 10 MB even with low energy should take about two minutes at worst...
If you have the WiFi capability, is it possible to make something like nearby share (BT handshake, WiFi data transfer) to work? Just as a way to make it easier for the users, connecting to a nonfunctioning WiFi can be a pain, that I can confirm...
EDIT: geez, I'm losing touch with current state of things, BTv4 is old news. BTv5 offers max rates of 50 or 2 Mbit/s (standard vs. low energy), so it should literally take seconds to transfer 10 MB of data on standard v5...
Getting everything compatible with latest spec is not always that viable and everything battery operated is generally BLE. 2 minutes for a file transfer is crazy. Bluetooth also has a bunch of licensing requirements (and expenses) that are pretty outrageous for small manufacturers.
It's also not very scalable. Once you start adding additional sensors (like IMUS) the files can get massive. For 3-5 minutes runs I frequently see >200Mb. USB or Wifi is just a much better technology for file transfer.
What tools does everyone carry in their field kit for a data acquisition day in addition to the system? Here's what I've got so far.
Wrenches for forks to change volume spacers. Fox 36, 38 & RockShox so far.
a few volume spacers for forks and shocks - growing varieties.
cable ties
Cable tie cutters, flush cuts, nail clippers, razor blade.
picks for removing shock air can rings
Allen keys
tape measure & calipers
shock pump
laptop
bike work stand
bike tire stand
painters / gaffers tape
Floor pumps - tyre & shock, a hand shock pump is sooooo slow and annoying to use in the field, I still bring one but it has a longer barrel on it
Tyre pressure gauge
Knipex pliers wrenches because of course
strap wrench for air cans
Valve core tools and spare presta tubeless cores (have had several peoples days held up by clogged valves)
spray cleaner and microfibre cloths or rags - particularly cleaning the fork or shock before opening the air spring
torque wrench is handy for shock bolts and top caps, I don't use it every time but for certain bolts its good assurance
Marker pens
cable crimps for the end of shifter cables are something I need to start - maybe just me but I HATE getting stabbed by stray cables
Chair to sit on between runs
rubbish bags
Toe straps for general holding
little bit of slickoleum
Are there any floor shock pumps available? Specialized had one a good few years ago but it seemed discontinued years ago...
Hmmmm.........good point it looks like lezyne calls their one "legacy" now! That sucks, I should look at rebuilding mine sooner rather than later then.....
https://www.specialized.com/us/en/air-tool-uhp-floor-pump/p/172600?color=268062-172600&searchText=472E-9085
This one appears to still be available but the only thing I found in the EU was the replacement hose in 2 EU shops... Can't find the Lezyne anywhere.
Bummer.....seems to be the same story here. I don't understand how a modern bike shop can function pumping up suspension from nothing with a regular tiny hand pump...but I guess thats what they all do?
https://bimpair.com/en/
Still requires a compressor or a cartridge. It's not a substitute for a a floor pump to pressurize shocks, it's just a portable canister of air.
The idea of some kind of open source hardware for a DAQ system is kind of floating in my head for some time. Despite my last attempt beeing burried because of a lot of different personal reasons and choosing the wrong controller to begin with.
What would be really neede from a hardware perspective.
- MCU with WiFi/Bluetooth
- 2 Analog Inputs for linear potentiometers
- GPS input
- 2 Inputs for brake Sensors
- 1-3 inputs for accelerometers/gyros
For bike development strain gauges could be nice but let's be honest those things are hard to apply for the home user and bring next to nothing from a data standpoint.
With a basic connected CPU an external SPI ADC could be used for high accuracy potentiometers. GPS is most likely an UART connection. Brake Sensors some Hall Effect Sensors with PWM output. Accelerometers/gyros is also kinda optional as data intepretion is depdendent on location. Could be that wheel speed would be more interesting.
Supplied via a small LiPo an ESP32 with an GPS Module and SPI ADC would be a nice thing for a home user. Parts should also pretty easy to source.
A Software do digest the data is the real challege I think.
Could PCP (Pre-Charged Pneumatic) floorpumps fit for this purpose?
https://www.topfirearmreviews.com/post/best-pcp-hand-pump
I think you are correct that it’s not the hardware, it’s the processing of the data and the software that is the big issue. There are some teams working on their own software and maybe a few independent developers working on something that maybe we could use in the future? Seems like at @downamics has been cooking up something.
Hardware wise I think doing voltage measurement might be the most flexible, that way you can use linear potentiometers, LVDTs, strain gauges, etc. As long as the resolution of the voltage measurement is correct. Strain gauges are niche, yes, but on the other hand damn useful for certain people.
For accelerometers it's a bit more problematic as you need a charge amplifier. If you're using an external charge amplifier, you're back to measuring voltage...
I'd love to throw around ideas and be a smartass when it comes to defining what's needed. And if I'd be doing the HW, I'd aim at it being open source as well.
I've used a regular tire floor pump for forks and have used it on the rear up to about 140 psi. Beats doing it all the way with the hand pump.
I carry a lot of that in my every day going to the park tool box but need to add a few more items from your list. Thanks. Unfortunately we had such a sloppy rain and muddy race & practice sessions of the weekend I didn't even pull my BYB out of the truck.
I mean the question is what the target idea of such an Open Source system would be. I doubt that anybody other than a manufacturer would be interested in strain gauges. On the other hand for small manufactures it could be interesting. 2 additional ADC channels shouldn't be the big problem for that application.
Accelormeter or a Gyroscope would probably ok to just have one on the main PCB. I think the use of those depends but could be interesting.
Other than that, if you got some free time, we could toss something up or at least talk about it. Perhaps anyone else is interested. Could do a Discord or something for these topics. Would be happy to contribute to such a system as I am interested in doing one and maybe also need one next year for a project.
Yes, obviously strain gauges are mostly usable for development of components. But as I said, if you can attach anything in a way where you measure voltage, you could reasonably connect a strain gauge bridge, a linear sensor, an accelerometer, some sort of switch, etc. Then you can measure wheel speed, suspension travel, brake pressure or lever travel, transfer functions below and above suspension, etc.
I have been considering open sourcing my design for several years now. Likely the approach I would take is to provide a carrier board (not dissimilar to an Arduino shield) that handles all the power management, bluetooth, and GPS connections and allow people to manage their own wiring harness, battery selection, 3D printed cases etc. The firmware is all C++/Arduino so its pretty easy to get into. Having a single carrier board eliminates a lot of the headache around integrating all the different devices in different ways and allow everyone to work from a common connector standard (and base firmware stack). The picture below is the current system that has been in use for several years; the design I would open source is newer and about half the size.
The system I produce uses a 600MHz Teensy MCU which allows for very fast logging speeds even when using digital busses. I would guess a carrier board would come in around ~$100USD for any sensible quantity.
The data processing is definitely more work (although not really that crazy if you are comfortable working with large data arrays). I would also be pretty happy to open up the source code for the processing client if there are people interested in contributing.
In the interest of not derailing the thread DM me if you are interested and I'll open up a discord to chat more.
I’ve been using the SynBike system for about a year now. Really like the layout and data it provides. For me this system was the next step after using Motion Instruments
I'll DM you but yes please in short! I've had a Teensy sitting here for a few months waiting to be turned in to a data logger....I kind of reached a point where I own too many systems (MIQ, BYB and AIM) and none of them have all the functionality I would like, but don't feel like buying yet another kit unless I knew there was total freedom to expand and modify it as I needed, and not rely on someone else for software updates/maintenance.
how much is that system?
Hello everyone,
We recently posted on YouTube the BYB Telemetry software overview: https://youtu.be/mRd_am4b3uY?si=M7VtNGgi0TP4dl4R
It's already "old" because we have introduced new features now.
While about the app, we have extended more features now. It's pretty aligned with the software now. You can try it directly from the Google Play and Apple Store.
Next week, we will introduce the live data mode as well: https://www.instagram.com/p/DPQdSQSjFoT/
About the open-source topic, we believe in the spirit of open-source. For example, we open-sourced the custom mountings for anyone with a 3D printer. However, running a successful business in this space - whether for data acquisition, support, or tech development - requires considerable resources. From traveling to all the World Cup races, providing on-the-ground support, maintaining a responsive customer service team, and continuously investing in R&D, the costs of delivering high-quality, dependable products and services are substantial.
For many riders and teams, the quality of the data and the reliability of the system are very important - especially during high-pressure situations like World Cup races. Open-source solutions, while flexible, sometimes lack the robust support systems, troubleshooting assistance, and frequent updates that a commercial product like ours can offer.
At BYB Tech, we’re riders ourselves (definitely riding less now). Our passion for gravity drives everything we do. We know firsthand how important it is to have reliable, accurate data and the support needed to perform at the highest level. That’s why we’re always open to discussing new features with our customers. When asked, we’ve added features in no time to meet the specific needs of teams and riders. If you have specific requests, feel free to share them!
Our goal is to continue innovating, bringing the latest technology to our customers, and offering personalized support that helps everyone to succeed.
@synBike I will DM you. I have no experience with the teensy boards and only a bit in Arduino as I am mainly programming in C in my daily work but that is interesting for sure. I really like the idea! I already did a bit of data crunching with what I got in python but ultimately I would use something a bit faster in the future. Althouth python is always easy for visualization and stuff.
@enricorodella22 I get your point with the open source solution and trouble shooting in high pressure situations. But that's nothing a home user needs which would be a target audience for an open source solution.
Also in my opinion a lot of open source projects are pretty robust as they have a big contributer base.
BYB or anyone, have you guys had any luck using your system on bikes with shock tunnels? like Santa Cruz or Forbidden? I'd love to slap some sensors on my Dreadnought V2 but my old MI system wouldn't fit.
Yes, we installed these sensors on the Supernought and Dreadnought.
On the Supernought, a team finds a way to install the regular 80mm (custom design shorter than standard designs).
Since we're manufacturing our own linear sensors, we produced some shorter custom 65mm sensors for a customer. They were made custom and fitted on the Dreadnought. We should have a couple left, need to check.
Another option is to go outside the tunnel (Specialized Demo). Or, you can fix the sensor to a point of the swingarm and input some math in the leverage table to plot the wheel displacement.
I've been working on some custom mounts for bikes like this - the supernought in particular is extremely tight! With a lot of trial and error I have a clamp system that should fit underneath the shock (its super thin to fit long springs as well) along with soldering a nut to the spring seat so the shock pot can thread straight in to it. If they rose joints could be unthreaded from the body it would be a lot easier! I have a broken AIM sensor I might rebuild to do that job. Also have an arm that mounts to the outside of the bike which you press bearings in to and uses threaded bolts on the pivots - haven't even printed a test version of this one but it might be a tidy way to do it. Haven't had a chance to try them in the real world but made good progress on a quick process for making custom mounts
They look nice! Well done!
This sensor version looks pretty old. The new design is shorter and has an 80mm of stroke instead of 75mm. On the new version you can also remove the upper uniball (very space saving!).
If you want (and you can) share the designs, I'll add it here (downloadable for free): https://bybtech.it/store/product/3d-models-cannondale-scalpel-2025-swin…
Ive done outside on a Kenevo/Enduro/Demo. Might be the best bet on Santa Cruz/Forbidden.
Enrico, those 3D print files are super cool! I'll look for some of my files and see if any are worth sharing.
Sure! Feel free to do that.
For the Specialized Demo, I should have the drawings for custom steel bolts with integrated M3 threads.
Otherwise, there's the classic option of drilling and tapping the screws.
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